If the buck is passed to FFXIV...

[Garretdejiko]

Both games are similar in their cycle, but one of them doesn't really care if you keep subbing during drought, meanwhile the other one throws a 6-month promo with a pretty mount so you don't stray far. Due the difference on revenue ambitions, Blizz upkeep is far harder to maintain than SE's.
There no tangible way to say that wow is on a steep declining... except for 9.1.5 which is Desperation: The Patch.

TWITCH:
41.3k views World of Warcraft
12,7k views FF

I know which king is gonna rule over which

Even tho pple say FF is busier then WOW, it show doesnt show.

Am I crazy or you are just equating twitch numbers with game quality?

[Lorgar Aurelian]

The numbers we get from blizzard are monthly active users across all blizz games not just WoW, and according to how they measure MAU if a player logged into retail, classic and TBC classic they would be counted as 3 users since they are 3 seperate games.

FF14 numbers are at least from one game but 22 million users wont be seperate players.



He was referring to monthly active users that also include all blizzard games, total accounts made however doesnt mean all that much

Oh well if he’s talking about MUA then he’s way off for FFXIV as they only reported 22m total accounts not MUA.

There investor reports also don’t only give Ff numbers hey have a second Mmo in them as well that is counted with Ff though it’s name escapes me and the 22m is just Ff.

[VinceVega]

Only the mop squish was required because of coding, they should have stopped after, who cares if we're doing 1 billion dps, you can make it like 1.4m and it's easy to read if you want. And the level squish is worst of all, no reason for it.

Squishes ruin the game.

Funny. Imho squishes saved the game. Number were getting ridicoulus and unreadable. Half of it was just clutter. No one knew if the hit the did was good or not because the numbers have been getting to long to really read and process any of it on the go.
And levels... meh. DOn't really care but i rather have the 60 now then someday being level 200 with every second leveling another ding without getting anything.

[RoKPaNda]

New World is not out yet... can we give it a couple of months before calling it dead on arrival...?!
Just because it's not your cup of tea, doesn't mean other people won't like it.

These ridiculous statements irritate me... some people are just sheep nowadays...

I mean the influencers who were hyping it up just a month ago have all moved on to other things and aren't hyped about New World anymore. There's really no indication at this point that it's going to do well. Even when it was hyped up there was a lot of negative feedback from the beta.

Using Twitch streamers as a metric for how popular a game is is pretty asinine

Actually no, it's a great metric for measuring the popularity of a game. Just because it tells a story that you don't like doesn't mean you can just dismiss it. Plenty of games that I don't like are popular and that's reflected by their massive viewer numbers on Twitch. FFXIV isn't some magical unicorn where everyone is playing it and nobody is watching it.

Regardless right now streamers have moved on to trying to create a Guild Wars 2 resurgence. It's really not saying much for the MMO market that people are trying to revive old games instead of playing new ones. And I actually like Guild Wars 2 a lot so whatever.

- - - Updated - - -

New World is not out yet... can we give it a couple of months before calling it dead on arrival...?!
Just because it's not your cup of tea, doesn't mean other people won't like it.

These ridiculous statements irritate me... some people are just sheep nowadays...

Both games are similar in their cycle, but one of them doesn't really care if you keep subbing during drought, meanwhile the other one throws a 6-month promo with a pretty mount so you don't stray far. Due the difference on revenue ambitions, Blizz upkeep is far harder to maintain than SE's.
There no tangible way to say that wow is on a steep declining... except for 9.1.5 which is Desperation: The Patch.


Am I crazy or you are just equating twitch numbers with game quality?

No, what @Gimlix is doing is equating Twitch numbers with POPULARITY which is a total valid metric. FFXIV is a quality game. It's not my cup of tea, but a lot of effort and love goes into it from its Devs and nobody is trying to take that away from it. But the hype over the summer was overblown and now the entirety of FFXIV streaming is held up by one streamer, otherwise it's tens of thousands of viewers behind WoW at any given time. It's a fine game, but the whole mass exodus to XIV / XIV is the next greatest thing / etc was all just manufactured hype from influencers having a tanty. And now they've moved on to GW2.

[Kyanion]

It is. You are saying that you need to log in every day for no reason but to do an ephemeral task that will lose it's meaning next patch or expansion. That is not content. That is conditioning.

I have all jobs at 80. I have everything unlocked. I still have plenty to do.
Tell me, have you gotten all relic weapons on all jobs? The crafting sky tools? Collected all the cards, all the minions, all the mounts? Cleared all the ultimates?
Sure, if i had played since the game came out constantly, perhaps i would have ran out of things to do. I've been playing pretty much everyday since ShB came out and i still got plenty to do. But, again that is not a bad thing. It's just a reward for my time. The game is not forcing me to do these things. But there are things for me to do if i want to.

Did you collect all the mounts on Wow, all the pets, get all the transmogs? Same nonsense response you're trying to put out. People look for things to do that they enjoy, if the game provides it great, if not then there is a content lull for them. Getting all job/classes to cap in either game isn't exactly a goal many people would strive for. Plenty of classes/jobs out there that people wouldn't find fun and they don't do them.

[Vakna]

FF has the problem of delivering an epic story, but very little satisfying elements for an MMORPG. There is no challenging dungeon content, very little challenging end game raiding content (you're done in a week or two at best if you're a decent player), the systems for RP such as collectibles and transmog is archaic at best. The economy systems like the Marketboard (their version of AH) is horribly designed and awkward to use. They disallow addons, which is an absolutely heinous approach to an MMO game.

If you treat FF14 like it's a single player RPG like the previous FF games, it's incredibly enjoyable, it's only when you get to end game you start thinking about goals and what you want to achieve and realise there is really very little to justify a monthly sub. They need to take a step back and start thinking about modernising their game and introducing some compelling progression systems.

[MORGATH99]

what it really bothers me is ppl calling FF an MMO the game its just another FF game with an online component all you do i read quest texts for hrs and try clothes in towns with other players raids are so underwhelming . ive follow ppl that work on other games that happend to play FF and after watching for hrs i really dont know how FF is an MMO or anything close to that , maybe WoW isnt what it use to but is still the best MMO imo . ff players are gonna get bored pretty soon theyll realize that the game sucks

[Onikaroshi]

Depends, do we count everything new which is added as content or just the stuff people like.

We used to get 2-3 dungeons a patch, now we get 1 most of the time.

- - - Updated - - -

You have to remember the Covid Pandemic is still pretty rampant in japan, which will be affecting work speed among other things I'm not trying to defend anything here I just feel both blizzard and SE should be cut alittle bit a slack on the content release schedule for these expansions.

It was pre covid too, SB cut down dungeon content and ShB cut it down further. Covid didn't hit til 5.3 was in development.

[kenn9530]

snip

If you use twitch as a metric for popularity then gas station simulator is more popular than WoW, what ppl watch on twitch means very little in how good a game actually is.

Twitch is about playable games and such, New World is currently not playable so there is nothing to watch, NW will do just fine and it doesnt need to have more viewers than WoW to do just fine.

[Onikaroshi]

what it really bothers me is ppl calling FF an MMO the game its just another FF game with an online component all you do i read quest texts for hrs and try clothes in towns with other players raids are so underwhelming . ive follow ppl that work on other games that happend to play FF and after watching for hrs i really dont know how FF is an MMO or anything close to that , maybe WoW isnt what it use to but is still the best MMO imo . ff players are gonna get bored pretty soon theyll realize that the game sucks

Is it massively multiplayer and online? Yes, yes it is.

It has everything wow has.

Dungeons, raids(both 24 and 8 player), pvp (both large and small scale), open world, etc.

[Garretdejiko]

No, what @Gimlix is doing is equating Twitch numbers with POPULARITY which is a total valid metric. FFXIV is a quality game. It's not my cup of tea, but a lot of effort and love goes into it from its Devs and nobody is trying to take that away from it. But the hype over the summer was overblown and now the entirety of FFXIV streaming is held up by one streamer, otherwise it's tens of thousands of viewers behind WoW at any given time. It's a fine game, but the whole mass exodus to XIV / XIV is the next greatest thing / etc was all just manufactured hype from influencers having a tanty.

I guess you are his lawyer, but since you are the one replying instead of him, we can continue speculating. He replied to a post with no other comment than "no king rules forever", therefore, the twitch excerp seemed to came out of nowhere. Popularity it's a weird metric to judge a game, no matter the context, other than weaponize it to less popular products. I'd know lmao, I've used it non stop in the past to make people mad.

And now they've moved on to GW2.

Wait what?

what it really bothers me is ppl calling FF an MMO

Then you are getting mad for nothing, most people know this already thanks to youtube.

[Selah]

I think there's two questions here. The first one being about the raw capability of XIV's team to maintain a quality product while innovating on features to keep the game engaging. No one and no group can maintain that forever. Eventually, someone is going to come along and knock the wind out of their sails, that's just a fact of life no matter the subject.

The other question though is about developer wit and the advancement of technology. What's going to happen when a team comes along who innovate on the genre with technology that just can't be translated into XIV or WoW? Like, say, they develop a new AI that can do all model rigging in place of a dev doing it, and the rigging from the AI takes a quarter of the time? The only downside is a dev has to spend an hour touching up the few errors made by the AI. How much more money and time will be saved by just that AI alone? How much more funding can go into the game for actual content versus waiting for those things to finish?

[Kyanion]

Wait what?

Yeah it is pretty damn funny if they ditched FF already and moved on to GW2. I do see one of the usual MMO streamers playing it but I'm not sure how many are.

[Garretdejiko]

Yeah it is pretty damn funny if they ditched FF already and moved on to GW2. I do see one of the usual MMO streamers playing it but I'm not sure how many are.

Who are they? ATM I only see Towelliee playing which is whatever.
And just realized, it's a NW waiting room lmao

[Onikaroshi]

Who are they? ATM I only see Towelliee playing which is whatever.
And just realized, it's a NW waiting room lmao

There's a few, staysafetv from classic, luxthos who develops a widely used WA package, that's off the top of my head, but it's not as popular as FF.

[Kyanion]

Who are they? ATM I only see Towelliee playing which is whatever.
And just realized, it's a NW waiting room lmao

Hard to quantify 'they' until it gets later in the day when the usual streamers would be around. I don't know if some of the people with a few hundred viewers are ship jumpers to the next 'big thing' or they regularly played that game.

[shadowmatrix]

1. The Relic is not even BIS until the very end of the expansion when most of the raiders have already cleared all of the Savage raids. The main reason people do the relics is for the glamour.

2. Palace of the Dead and Heaven on High are both 100% optional content.

Sure there's RNG and grinds, but they don't tie them to your endgame progression like WoW does. If you want to raid in WoW at a semi-hardcore or hardcore level you have to do so much content outside of raiding. Mythic+, Torghast, Korthia, your renown quests, and Raiding. In FF14, all you have to do raid and do your daily Expert roulette or hunts. The end game for FF14 is essentially equivalent to what the endgame in Wrath was.

Mythic+ is optional, Torghast becomes optional quickly, Korthia is just another quest hub, and renown is a MSQ that goes away over time. A casual player has room to complain about it all but if you intend to be hardcore about raiding you know the work that goes with that territory. Also with a dedicated team most of that can be done on Tuesday with ease.

[Zoura]

TWITCH:
41.3k views World of Warcraft
12,7k views FF

I know which king is gonna rule over which

Even tho pple say FF is busier then WOW, it show doesnt show.

Yeah, they hype doesnt last long - We know who's the king, and will remain the king. FOR THE HORDE!

[Garretdejiko]

Hard to quantify 'they' until it gets later in the day when the usual streamers would be around. I don't know if some of the people with a few hundred viewers are ship jumpers to the next 'big thing' or they regularly played that game.

Good, is GW2 getting and update or something? I'd love to see it get better and help to build an actual MMO enviroment out of love for the genre.

There's a few, staysafetv from classic, luxthos who develops a widely used WA package, that's off the top of my head, but it's not as popular as FF.

staysafetv went full doomer after the blizz debacle and he just bandwaggons, which is not a bad thing honestly. The other guy I do not know, sorry.

Yeah, they hype doesnt last long - We know who's the king, and will remain the king. FOR THE HORDE!

No matter who is top dog at the end of the month, FF got what they always wanted and more. They wanted more players, not ALL the players. And they got it for free, during a content drought, and is hard to imagine that I would be the only person in the entire world sticking with them from now on.

For the horde, dude.

[Poppincaps]

Mythic+ is optional, Torghast becomes optional quickly, Korthia is just another quest hub, and renown is a MSQ that goes away over time. A casual player has room to complain about it all but if you intend to be hardcore about raiding you know the work that goes with that territory. Also with a dedicated team most of that can be done on Tuesday with ease.

Mythic+ is optional.... sure thing buddy. I knew you were going to pull the same old "If you're hardcore about raiding then you know the work that goes into it." Except that wasn't the case from Vanilla until WoD. It wasn't until Legion that they required all of these extra things to perform well in raid. Like I said, FF14 is basically the endgame of Wrath with a Final Fantasy coat of paint. Look at raiders in Classic and TBC, they basically raid log because they don't have to constantly grind to stay relevant.

Also your point about it going away is irrelevant. You still have to do extra content to stay relevant in raiding. If we're going to use that logic, then the need to do the daily dungeons goes away as well, so that just cancels out and you're still left with all of the other systems you have to interface with in WoW. Your bias is really showing right now, you wave away things like Torghast, Mythic +, and Renown which have direct and substantial character power gains, but then you wanna act like Palace of the Dead and Heaven on High are even slightly relevant to the end game of 14.