If the buck is passed to FFXIV...

[Kallisto]

FFXIV has already fallen off. Nobody is even watching it when Asmongold isn't streaming. New World seems to be DoA as well. What's next?

You know it could be a good thing that there's some fall off. While businesses try to get everyone (Because no business will ever have enough money). Having too broad an audience might long term fuck things over as you try to cater to every part of it when they objectively have demands to be 100% catered to even if their demands simply put can't exist in the same game.

[Zequill]

Mythic+ is optional.... sure thing buddy. I knew you were going to pull the same old "If you're hardcore about raiding then you know the work that goes into it." Except that wasn't the case from Vanilla until WoD. It wasn't until Legion that they required all of these extra things to perform well in raid.

Playing TBC right now and both my trinkets and my offhand come from either badges or drops from Heroic Dungeon and that is true for many other classes. You had to run dungeon to be competitive in raid since forever.

Legion and BFA was more hardcore on mythic+ dungeon since the chest was giving one free piece of gear. Now that the weekly chest is unlock with dungeon, you are not as forced to do your weekly dungeon.

[shadowmatrix]

The highest numbers WoW has ever had was 46 million back in 2017. It has less than half that now. FFXIV hit 22 million users in April and has continued to grow since.

Registered user isn't the same as subscriber, I thought everyone realized by now.

[Nasuuna]

Mythic+ is optional.... sure thing buddy. I knew you were going to pull the same old "If you're hardcore about raiding then you know the work that goes into it." Except that wasn't the case from Vanilla until WoD. It wasn't until Legion that they required all of these extra things to perform well in raid. Like I said, FF14 is basically the endgame of Wrath with a Final Fantasy coat of paint. Look at raiders in Classic and TBC, they basically raid log because they don't have to constantly grind to stay relevant.

Also your point about it going away is irrelevant. You still have to do extra content to stay relevant in raiding. If we're going to use that logic, then the need to do the daily dungeons goes away as well, so that just cancels out and you're still left with all of the other systems you have to interface with in WoW. Your bias is really showing right now, you wave away things like Torghast, Mythic +, and Renown which have direct and substantial character power gains, but then you wanna act like Palace of the Dead and Heaven on High are even slightly relevant to the end game of 14.

I'm triple legend and don't even have Heaven on High unlocked :3


My biggest thing i don't want is people to change 14 into WoW. Let it do it's own thing

[Kyanion]

Registered user isn't the same as subscriber, I thought everyone realized by now.

It's a common trick people try and use to bash WoW and prop up FF.

[Dracullus]

FF is boring to watch, even moreso than wow, they likely have close to equal playerbases, but we'll never know.

I think numbers from twitch correlate much more with playerbase number around expac releases when people check twitch to share their hype with others. Outside that MMOs don't really fit Twitch with it's FOTM mindset. So we will see how FF14 perform in two months with expac release.

Vanilla Classic had 1150K peak, SL 950K, TBC 450K, BfA 600K. If FF14 expac will gather more than 500K viewers, I will say it's in same league as WoW (from popularity POV). So far FF14 peak is 220K when Asmon tried it.

It's a common trick people try and use to bash WoW and prop up FF.

Yep, same with ESO. WoW had 100M accounts back in 2013. And when Blizzard say SL pre-patch is most busy period in last 10 years, no one believe it means over 10M subs. Blizzard has strict policy to not show them, cause they drop very fast after launch anyway (hence shutting up Chilton when he said Legion had 10.1M subs in interview for polish magazine).

And these people don't get it doesn't mean WoW is superior game (that's very subjective). Just more established on the market.

The highest numbers WoW has ever had was 46 million back in 2017. It has less than half that now. FFXIV hit 22 million users in April and has continued to grow since.

You often post random data without even thinking about it? Not only you compare total registered players to active players, but also FF registered players to Blizzard active players from all their games. If you analize that Blizzard chart it's clear this 46M peak is more connected to Overwatch, than WoW (sudden growth around 2016-2017, gaining FPS audience who had nothing to play from Blizz games before, no changes trend around WoW expac releases, fall correlate with Overwatch losing popularity).

[shadowmatrix]

Your bias is really showing right now, you wave away things like Torghast, Mythic +, and Renown which have direct and substantial character power gains, but then you wanna act like Palace of the Dead and Heaven on High are even slightly relevant to the end game of 14.

Your bias is showing, my post about Deep Dungeon never mentioned end game in any way.

[Wrecktangle]

How do YOU know they haven't.

I don't, but that's also why I didn't make the claim. I explicitly stated that I have no idea how many concurrent subs either game has. That information is not available to any of us (without deep insider knowledge). That's why I'm not over here posting that FF14 good, WoW bad, or XYZ. I'm simply calling out your misinformation campaign where you explicitly stated "it's a fact WoW has more subs", but you provided no evidence whatsoever to defend your claim, and your rebuttal to someone calling you out was "how do YOU know they haven't". That's not how it works lol.

Everyone going on and on about FF14 is making all these baseless claims. I play both games and I see how many players are on both at the same time. My guild in retail alone averages about 100 players on all day. I have friends in about 6 guild that averages more. My guild in classic era and classic tbc has the same.

I have gone a few hours in FF14 not seeing a single person, whereas in wow I have not gone a minutes.

I mean, this is anecdotal so ultimately irrelevant, but I'm surprised you feel this way. I've been watching a few of the main WoW streamers prog some fights and everywhere they go the world is littered with players. I've also been an avid player of both games and my experience hasn't matched that, but I'm not sure what server/datacenter you're on, what zone you're in making that statement, and what time of the day you're playing, so I won't compare anecdotes there.

Everyone playing FF14 right now will soon discover although the classes have all this stuff they are pretty hallow in design.

Can't argue with that, but not really relevant to your original claim.

You hone your skills and parse. That is one of the major factors why FF14 WILL lose 99% of it's new playerbase. If you can not log or have dnf meters. End game means nothing. This is just fact.

You do know you can parse and log in FF14 right? You know FFLOGs exists and is widespread among the raiding community.

People didn't want it remastered. they wanted a new game because everything about the old FFXIV was garbage.

Just so we're clear the person you responded to wasn't talking about FF14, they were talking about FF7R.

Are you talking about the company that took a game people wanted remastered, remade it instead, changed the combat, changed parts of the story, and broke it into pieces so they can make more money based on hype?

Don't believe the hype it's a sequel, as an equal can I get this through to you.

Who is the WE in this equation? I didn't want a remaster. I wanted the remake. I didn't want turn based combat, I wanted really fun action combat. While the episodic nature is annoying (as is SOME of the story changes), I respect and understand the decisioning why (more on episodic, less on story).

The highest numbers WoW has ever had was 46 million back in 2017. It has less than half that now. FFXIV hit 22 million users in April and has continued to grow since.

LOL what the heck are you doing? Why are you comparing these 2 numbers? I can't tell if you're just a really young kid with more finger dexterity than brains, or if you're a malicious actor dead set on pushing an radical anti-WoW agenda.

You CANNOT compare Blizzard total MAU's against total accounts created in FF14. You HAD to have known that you'd get slaughtered making such a stupid comparison... Right?

[Khain]

FF hype is dead the streamers are no longer playing it. Also FF is a good game but it's not what people are craving as the next new thing. FF is very predictable as they do the same thing every patch and every expansion.

[Val the Moofia Boss]

Good, is GW2 getting and update or something? I'd love to see it get better and help to build an actual MMO enviroment out of love for the genre.

It's getting an expansion in February. I don't expect GW2 to really see any bump in popularity until after Endwalker has been out for a few weeks. Also, who knows how popular GW2 still really is. The first expansion in 2015, HoT, was GW2's biggest bump in popularity post launch, but the second expansion PoF never had anywhere near as much popularity as HoT, and thus far EoD is looking to have even less going for it than PoF did. I haven't seen people talk about GW2 in years.

[Onikaroshi]

It's getting an expansion in February. I don't expect GW2 to really see any bump in popularity until after Endwalker has been out for a few weeks. Also, who knows how popular GW2 still really is. The first expansion in 2015, HoT, was GW2's biggest bump in popularity post launch, but the second expansion PoF never had anywhere near as much popularity as HoT, and thus far EoD is looking to have even less going for it than PoF did. I haven't seen people talk about GW2 in years.

I've actually seen a lot of people talk about it, depends on where you look I guess.

[Pretorian]

I mean the influencers who were hyping it up just a month ago have all moved on to other things and aren't hyped about New World anymore. There's really no indication at this point that it's going to do well. Even when it was hyped up there was a lot of negative feedback from the beta. ...

Influencers?! Streamers?! Do you understand that these people aren't qualified to anything? Most of them never had a job, probably no high education, socially inapt with mental struggles and external locus of identity.
These people have lived most of their lives playing games, hiding from interacting with real people, facing various real life situations; they are not qualified for anything, much less to advise or influence other people.
It really baffles me how many people are listening to them and looking up to them.
Is that really how much you value yourself as a person? To take advice and follow the behavior of some wanna-be kid who bought a camera and puts on an act?

I pity for the next generation...

[jackofwind]

TWITCH:
41.3k views World of Warcraft
12,7k views FF

I know which king is gonna rule over which

Even tho pple say FF is busier then WOW, it show doesnt show.

More people like to watch people play WoW than play it themselves because it's microwaved dogshit.

[Kyanion]

More people like to watch people play WoW than play it themselves because it's microwaved dogshit.

So people want to watch others microwave dogshit? What kind of analogy is this?

[jackofwind]

So people want to watch others microwave dogshit? What kind of analogy is this?

Twitch views don't mean anything re: playerbase size, they just tell you what people like to watch.

Pretty obvious.

[TheRevenantHero]

I mean the influencers who were hyping it up just a month ago have all moved on to other things and aren't hyped about New World anymore. There's really no indication at this point that it's going to do well. Even when it was hyped up there was a lot of negative feedback from the beta.



Actually no, it's a great metric for measuring the popularity of a game. Just because it tells a story that you don't like doesn't mean you can just dismiss it. Plenty of games that I don't like are popular and that's reflected by their massive viewer numbers on Twitch. FFXIV isn't some magical unicorn where everyone is playing it and nobody is watching it.

Regardless right now streamers have moved on to trying to create a Guild Wars 2 resurgence. It's really not saying much for the MMO market that people are trying to revive old games instead of playing new ones. And I actually like Guild Wars 2 a lot so whatever.

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No, what @Gimlix is doing is equating Twitch numbers with POPULARITY which is a total valid metric. FFXIV is a quality game. It's not my cup of tea, but a lot of effort and love goes into it from its Devs and nobody is trying to take that away from it. But the hype over the summer was overblown and now the entirety of FFXIV streaming is held up by one streamer, otherwise it's tens of thousands of viewers behind WoW at any given time. It's a fine game, but the whole mass exodus to XIV / XIV is the next greatest thing / etc was all just manufactured hype from influencers having a tanty. And now they've moved on to GW2.

No. Using Twitch streamers as an metric is utter bull shit. Because views fluctuate constantly based on whatever a popular streamer is playing. It has nothing to do with game popularity and everything to do with people watching their favorite streamer.

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So people want to watch others microwave dogshit? What kind of analogy is this?

The point is, people would rather watch the game played than EVER play it themselves.

[Swnem]

Did you collect all the mounts on Wow, all the pets, get all the transmogs? Same nonsense response you're trying to put out. People look for things to do that they enjoy, if the game provides it great, if not then there is a content lull for them. Getting all job/classes to cap in either game isn't exactly a goal many people would strive for. Plenty of classes/jobs out there that people wouldn't find fun and they don't do them.

You are confused and spouting nonsense. I didn't argue that WoW didn't have content.
The other poster argued that one doesn't have anything to do in FF, which is obviously false, because he doesn't consider those things you just mentioned content, but rather just the constant power grind.
But, being that the power grind is so prevalent in WoW, those things do indeed have less meaning in WoW.
WoW conditions it's players to the daily/weekly power grind to keep up. It's part of the design.

Arguing that other games don't have content cause they don't require the same commitment is the result of that. Who said it must work that way? No one. Just the habit built from doing it that makes it strange for there to be a different aproach.

Call it nonsense but it's the truth and you know it.
Who said you must play everyday instead of just having the option to if you feel like? You lig in cause you want to or cause you got a liat of chores to do? That is an important distinction.
Are you playing the game or is the game playing you?

[Kyanion]

The point is, people would rather watch the game played than EVER play it themselves.

Not only do you know the sub numbers of both games you also know the viewing habits of twitch viewers and WHY they watch what they do. Damn, your services must be in high demand for analytics companies.

You just cannot accept that WoW still might be ahead of FFXIV can you?

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You are confused. I didn't argue that WoW didn't have content.
The other poster argued that you don't have anything to do, which is obviously false, because he doesn't consider those things content, but rather just the power grind.

I mean some of that content you listed in FF is fine and all but it isn't exactly compelling content to level a 10th job to the cap or level all the professions. Professions got pretty dull with a skill revamp and basically can be done with macros now (at least when I last played the game). Each game has a lot of 'things to do' but pet battles or card games or even professions might not be what people are after. Who knows really.

[TheRevenantHero]

Not only do you know the sub numbers of both games you also know the viewing habits of twitch viewers and WHY they watch what they do. Damn, your services must be in high demand for analytics companies.

You just cannot accept that WoW still might be ahead of FFXIV can you?

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I mean some of that content you listed in FF is fine and all but it isn't exactly compelling content to level a 10th job to the cap or level all the professions. Professions got pretty dull with a skill revamp and basically can be done with macros now (at least when I last played the game). Each game has a lot of 'things to do' but pet battles or card games or even professions might not be what people are after. Who knows really.

There's nothing to accept. Because as I said in another post, view counts for games don't determine popularity. Trying to act like they do is the definition of asinine.

[Kyanion]

There's nothing to accept. Because as I said in another post, view counts for games don't determine popularity. Trying to act like they do is the definition of asinine.

The highest numbers WoW has ever had was 46 million back in 2017. It has less than half that now. FFXIV hit 22 million users in April and has continued to grow since.

Who is the one being asinine? It isn't me. You're the one trying to produce numbers as if you know for a fact what is going on. Except you posted incorrect information and did not even understand what it was you were posting.

Also, I NEVER said streamer view counts mean a damn thing.