If the buck is passed to FFXIV...

[Swnem]

Let us compare how big WoW is in size, how much content there is how divided the player base is, how many servers does FF and how many World of Warcraft?
There is a reason WoW hold records and still hold those today. It basically created the MMORPG genre and it will take it with it.

In-game experience, as i said before. that is impossible to decide.

My server alone has standard nearly 100 people in goldshire, now i imagine 90% server swap into eachother, i bet if we didnt had phasing then each city hub or town hub will have easily over 1000 people there. (Can FF pull that off?)

Even if we base info off websites that have no clue at all if their stats are true, we still see that FF has like 2.2M active players and WoW is at 3.5M (Even though WoW is at its worst ever... still 1Mill far ahead of FF)

Shows you who the real king is.

Wow merges every server in shards. FF only does in instances with servers from the same data center (think battlegroup). It is possible to visit other servers in the same data center.

Maybe i should note that when i say 50 it's just the ones i see in one given point. Of course it depends on where i am, but FF cities are very large. So, yes, there are way more than 100 people in the big cities in each given server. Probably more. Also that many on the gold saucer and Bozja/zednos. Heck even dozens of people just hanging out in the Gangos hub. These are basically the end game zone.

When you offer numbers, you have to offer the source. Guess i will go look.

So, mmo population tells a different story.
https://mmo-population.com/activity

FFXIV 2.8m
Wow retail 1.1m
WoW classic 730k

This for active players. Maybe you have a different source for your numbers? That is what i'm seeing.

Honestly, that makes sense with what i see in the games when playing them. But, there are no official numbers. Probably never will.

[Lolites]

I mean there is a confusion here with "people doomsaying" and an actual provable "exodus" that happened.

These are not the same.

well im sure you have numbers as to how many people left wow, since its "provable" according to you...
or is your proof "someone said so and i agree so its true" kind of thing?

[Kyanion]

So, mmo population tells a different story.
https://mmo-population.com/activity

FFXIV 2.8m
Wow retail 1.1m
WoW classic 730k

This for active players. Maybe you have a different source for your numbers. That is what i'm seeing.

Honestly, that makes sense with what i see in the games when playing them. But, there are no officual numbers.

From your own provided source: "Of course the data is not extremely accurate, or in many cases, accurate at all. There is no way of really getting MMO subscriber numbers today. If you need accurate numbers you will have to look for publicly released data, use steam users, or whatever method is available."

Your source is complete bullshit. But hey, keep linking it because I know we're getting a laugh here. If you think FF is 1 mil subs above WoW you are crazy.

- - - Updated - - -

well im sure you have numbers as to how many people left wow, since its "provable" according to you...
or is your proof "someone said so and i agree so its true" kind of thing?

Nah their proof is a website that flat out tells you they are not accurate. LOL

- - - Updated - - -

Ah... yes and we haven't heard this same exact counter before with all the other times

Wow is dying okay!? Mass player exodus, you saw it happen in Cata right? In MoP? Umm Legion! No maybe it was BFA! Must be Shadowlands! Damn is that game not dead yet??

[Lolites]

Nah their proof is a website that flat out tells you they are not accurate. LOL

one would think that webpage that shows 13k active players for Wildstar, game that is LITERALY dead as realms are turned off, would not be considered proof... but its really amazing what people are wiling to consider to be true if it supports their biased point of view...

[Swnem]

From your own provided source: "Of course the data is not extremely accurate, or in many cases, accurate at all. There is no way of really getting MMO subscriber numbers today. If you need accurate numbers you will have to look for publicly released data, use steam users, or whatever method is available."

Your source is complete bullshit. But hey, keep linking it because I know we're getting a laugh here. If you think FF is 1 mil subs above WoW you are crazy.

- - - Updated - - -



Nah their proof is a website that flat out tells you they are not accurate. LOL

- - - Updated - - -



Wow is dying okay!? Mass player exodus, you saw it happen in Cata right? In MoP? Umm Legion! No maybe it was BFA! Must be Shadowlands! Damn is that game not dead yet??

If only you read the post you are quoting. I showed a source. The other poster pulled numbers out of his rear end.
So, no. You don't get to say my numbers are worse when i pointed out in the same post you didn't read that there are no official numbers.
We have evidence that FF sold out and saw a player peak when it wasn't releasing any new content.
Very sorry that afronts you and it's very difficult to cope with. Reality doesn't need your agreement.

I mean, a good part of you that is replying doesn't even play the game or have any idea what is going on. You just get very cross cause your favorite game might not be the top dog anymore.
Get over it. At least we are getting some improvements next patch cause of it.
But, pretending reality isn't a thing? Nah... that is not my thing.

[Kyanion]

If only you read the post you are quoting. I showed a source.

A source from a website that makes up numbers is a bad source. It hurts your case it does not make it better.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

If only you read the post you are quoting. I showed a source. The other poster pulled numbers out of his rear end.

Both numbers are out of rear ends. Mmo population literally makes up numbers out of thin air you can see it for your self if you cross reference any of there given numbers with actual official info which you can do wot FFxiv to show that the numbers they give aren’t even close to the official info.

[Sialina]

Yeah, nah. I really don't care, because all I'm doing is passing on what I've been told by the people who work on these games. These people know what they're doing, I don't, that's why the only things I say on the matter are info they've given, and it's also why I'm going to completely ignore some random person on the internet.

If they told you they have this new engine that goes faster than light, you'd trust them too? Don't be silly, just look up integers, how they work, and learn something. You are in here saying big numbers cause lag, misinforming other people. At least don't talk at all if you don't know what you are talking about and keep your uninformed opinion to yourself.

[Barzotti]

If only you read the post you are quoting. I showed a source. The other poster pulled numbers out of his rear end.
So, no. You don't get to say my numbers are worse when i pointed out in the same post you didn't read that there are no official numbers.
We have evidence that FF sold out and saw a player peak when it wasn't releasing any new content.
Very sorry that afronts you and it's very difficult to cope with. Reality doesn't need your agreement.

I mean, a good part of you that is replying doesn't even play the game or have any idea what is going on. You just get very cross cause your favorite game might not be the top dog anymore.
Get over it. At least we are getting some improvements next patch cause of it.
But, pretending reality isn't a thing? Nah... that is not my thing.

Your source is saying "don't trust us, we can't be reliable". It's pretty rich from you talking about reality when you pretend that FF has more subs than WoW even though your source is literally saying "there is no way of really getting MMO subscribers".

It's even worse than not using any source, you're using made up numbers to prove a point that makes you look completely dishonest.

[Al Gorefiend]

This is the honest answer i can support.

I live with someone who plays WoW as well and FF is just not for them even though i love it. They don't stand around there inventing reasons why FF sucks or WoW is better. They know WoW is a worse game. They see me playing FF and they know. But, FF just doesn't appeal to them.
For example, New world doesn't appeal to me. It's not that i think it's bad. It's just not for me.

That level of honesty is commendable. I applaud you.

- - - Updated - - -

Btw i'm not sure i adressed the OP.

That is copium talking.

As long as the game is good, it will get players support. It's that simple. It wasn't players complaining things weren't good that ruined WoW. The devs ruined WoW. It is very much a different situation.

I can't comment on if its a better game than WoW or not. Maybe the gameplay really is fantastic and I'm missing out.

All I know is I truly detest Anime and most everything from Japan, save a few Nintendo titles though not all of them. Art style and storytelling lacks innovation when it comes to Anime.

[Jazzhands]

If they told you they have this new engine that goes faster than light, you'd trust them too? Don't be silly, just look up integers, how they work, and learn something. You are in here saying big numbers cause lag, misinforming other people. At least don't talk at all if you don't know what you are talking about and keep your uninformed opinion to yourself.

Again, game developers > you. It's a concept even simpler than integers. These games are massive piles of tangled codes, you have no idea how these numbers are interacting with things. FF14 especially, 1.0 was a massive pile of flaming shite and now we have 10 tons of spaghetti jury rigged on top of it. If Yoshi-P says big numbers are becoming an issue, then I trust him, and the fact that this seems to annoy you so much is kind of funny.

[Swnem]

Your source is saying "don't trust us, we can't be reliable". It's pretty rich from you talking about reality when you pretend that FF has more subs than WoW even though your source is literally saying "there is no way of really getting MMO subscribers".

It's even worse than not using any source, you're using made up numbers to prove a point that makes you look completely dishonest.

I said that! The other poster brought it up while making up numbers just like he did on the first page, but that you are willing to buy it when it suits you.

Jesus the copium on this room is off the charts!
I'm done here. I am not gonna keep repeating myself to people who can't face reality.
Think whatever you want. Reality doesn't need your aproval.

[Sialina]

Again, game developers > you. It's a concept even simpler than integers. These games are massive piles of tangled codes, you have no idea how these numbers are interacting with things. FF14 especially, 1.0 was a massive pile of flaming shite and now we have 10 tons of spaghetti jury rigged on top of it. If Yoshi-P says big numbers are becoming an issue, then I trust him, and the fact that this seems to annoy you so much is kind of funny.

Actually I never once referred to FF14 in any of my posts, you did. I simply said adding 2 big numbers takes the same amount of time as adding 2 small numbers because of how computers work, which you can't seen to accept.
If you want a more reasonable explanation for what might be happening in FF14 check Bovinity Divinitys response to my post instead, which deals with overflow and such.

[Kyanion]

I said that! The other poster brought it up while making up numbers just like he did on the first page, but that you are willing to buy it when it suits you.

Jesus the copium on this room is off the charts!
I'm done here. I am not gonna keep repeating myself to people who can't face reality.
Think whatever you want. Reality doesn't need your aproval.

His 'source' of twitch viewership is at least more relevant than made up bullshit numbers on a website. I'm not saying twitch metrics or steam charts are the end all be all but they are at least FAR more fucking useful information than a website that creates numbers out of thin air and SAYS they do so.

"Copium" indeed. Someone does need to face reality and it is the person linking the website YOU linked as proof of your false narrative.

[Jazzhands]

Actually I never once referred to FF14 in any of my posts, you did. I simply said adding 2 big numbers takes the same amount of time as adding 2 small numbers because of how computers work, which you can't seen to accept.
If you want a more reasonable explanation for what might be happening in FF14 check Bovinity Divinitys response to my post instead, which deals with overflow and such.

Actually I never once said I didn't understand integers, they're just irrelevant to the conversation, which you can't seem to accept.

I don't need a more reasonable explanation for what might be happening in FF14 because I watched the Live Letter myself and have all the information Bovinity has, unless the developers feed him info directly he won't have access to any information that I don't.

[crusadernero]

I find it funny that FF14 gets praised for having several difficulties when it comes to raids, but in wow its looked down upon as a shitshow and very bad that it has four difficulties.

I mean, even Asmongold decided to try really hard raids in FF14, but said himself he will never try mythic raids again in wow. How come? Is it because even the hardest raids in FF14 is easier than mythic? I dont know or understand the difference.

You could see the difference in how some streamers approached raiding in Tempest Keep when it launched. For some it was a total shitshow and constant complaining over and over about Blizzard, the fight was bugged, everyone sucks, the game sucks - in general, a toxic and bad experience for everyone involved. Then same ppl can do a FF raid were they die over and over, no crying or turning into a toxic shitshow.

I think ALOT of people have a love/Hate relationship with wow. We fucking hate the game at times, but we cant move totally away from it. Its like breaking up with your GF but she never really leaves your house so you end up back together with her time and time again. Cause in the end, she(wow) ain that bad. You try to meet others(FF, New World++) but you always end up back with wow. And we hate ourself for it.

[Narveid]

Wow is dying okay!? Mass player exodus, you saw it happen in Cata right? In MoP? Umm Legion! No maybe it was BFA! Must be Shadowlands! Damn is that game not dead yet??

Well, Blizzard at large had 46M monthly active users in Q2 2017, and 26M in their latest update. It's not specifically for WoW, but I think losing 20M monthly active users in 4 years, around 40-45% of your base, is exactly what I'd call a mass player exodus.

[Nzx]

Well, Blizzard at large had 46M monthly active users in Q2 2017, and 26M in their latest update. It's not specifically for WoW, but I think losing 20M monthly active users in 4 years, around 40-45% of your base, is exactly what I'd call a mass player exodus.

Overwatch/Initial release date
24 May 2016

Hearthstone releases three expansions in 2017

64 teams in Heroes of the Dorm

7.3 is announced

MMO-Champion forums: "DAE BOOM PERIOD MORE BUSY THAN BUSINESS AS USUAL????? DED GAEM?????"

[scubi666stacy]

FF14 is a great game, but I think a fair amount of the people that have fled to it are going to see that once the honeymoon period is over, there isn't much to do. It's a tremendous amount of content to do while you're catching up, but day to day play for the people that have kept up patch to patch is a bit light.

That's ideal for me. Though I have a lot of catchup to do - but since I really don't have much time to play anyway and other hobbies, I would be glad to have not as much to do in an MMO.

[crusadernero]

Well, Blizzard at large had 46M monthly active users in Q2 2017, and 26M in their latest update. It's not specifically for WoW, but I think losing 20M monthly active users in 4 years, around 40-45% of your base, is exactly what I'd call a mass player exodus.

The numbers are stupidly high and says something about how big Blizzard is. Millions upon millions have bought wow or other Blizzard games, thats not "normal". Its quite a feat. Now - most people treat games like this: Buy game, plays it. When bored, stop playing it. Its not 2008 anymore, people can pick and choose from a pletoria of good games that you can get hold of in no time. Heck, many of them are even free!

Back in the "old days" people had wow as the MMORPG to play(think wotlk days). There was no other MMORPG that could compete at all. It was a different time and the options wasnt that big, especially when it came to an online game of this magnitude. To keep hold of 10+ million subs for over 16+ years is impossible.

What im trying to say is: People shift and move around with games all the time. People dont stay subbed throughout a xpac anymore, cause why would they? New wow xpac/patch comes, people sub and play for a while. Then stop and move on to other things. As it should be. You dont have to stay subbed all the time to wow to get fun out of it, and I doubt even Blizzard wants you to sub and play all the time. Theres even a ingame tip were it says you should take breaks lol.

Could wow do better right now? Sure, it always can. Is it dead, buried and forgotten? Not by a long shot and when 10.0 comes around people will return, play it for a while and have fun with it, and unsub again. Nothing wrong with that.