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  1. #201
    Quote Originally Posted by Machismo View Post
    it's not my argument.
    One day you'll stop passing the buck and let it stop at your desk. But until then I guess you can always blame someone else, it never seems to be "your argument".

  2. #202
    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    One day you'll stop passing the buck and let it stop at your desk. But until then I guess you can always blame someone else, it never seems to be "your argument".
    Except, it's literally his argument.

    He's asking me to expound on his argument.

    I made my argument quite clear. if you have any questions, then please feel free to ask. Considering your decision to edit out the part where I actually fucking answered it, my guess is you simply wanted to be disingenuous.

  3. #203
    Banned JohnBrown1917's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Machismo View Post
    I'm not sure why you are asking me this question, it's not my argument.
    So why do you keep asking for countries that have the power to censor?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Machismo View Post
    Or... you can simply stop using companies like Facebook.
    Which won't solve the problem.

  4. #204
    Quote Originally Posted by JohnBrown1917 View Post
    So why do you keep asking for countries that have the power to censor?
    Because... that is your argument, and you keep mentioning nameless countries.

    Quote Originally Posted by JohnBrown1917 View Post
    Or like how a lot of countries already do it, but they also drink water so you better stop drinking too.
    Lots of countries... countries that probably even have names, the very best names. You keep giving a Trumpian answer.

  5. #205
    Quote Originally Posted by JohnBrown1917 View Post
    So why do you keep asking for countries that have the power to censor?

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    Which won't solve the problem.
    They are motivated by profits, and their profits are generated via ads and selling information. So... the less you use them, the more you hit them in the pocketbook. They will change how they operate, if enough people stop using them.

  6. #206
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    Quote Originally Posted by Machismo View Post
    Because... that is your argument, and you keep mentioning nameless countries.
    My answer is most of them, are we still going in circles or do you want me to list like 150 countries? Throw a dart at a world map, you'll probably hit one

    Lots of countries... countries that probably even have names, the very best names. You keep giving a Trumpian answer.
    Not my problem you somehow still not get that most countries do not have a first amendment and thus can pass censorship laws with a simple majority.

  7. #207
    Quote Originally Posted by Vegas82 View Post
    The United Kingdom. Your turn.
    The US...because you really can't yell "fire!" in a crowded place.

    Germany...holocaust...and Nazi stuff.

  8. #208
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    Quote Originally Posted by Machismo View Post
    They are motivated by profits, and their profits are generated via ads and selling information. So... the less you use them, the more you hit them in the pocketbook. They will change how they operate, if enough people stop using them.
    If only reality worked like that and 1 person actually had that power. It gets billions of pageviews and you think 1 person can even make the smallest of dents? Your average person has far more power through democratic means.

  9. #209
    Quote Originally Posted by JohnBrown1917 View Post
    My answer is most of them, are we still going in circles or do you want me to list like 150 countries? Throw a dart at a world map, you'll probably hit one


    Not my problem you somehow still not get that most countries do not have a first amendment and thus can pass censorship laws with a simple majority.
    Most countries do have freedom of speech, which is part of that First Amendment.

    China doesn't, so does that mean we should be more like China?

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  10. #210
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    Quote Originally Posted by Machismo View Post
    Most countries do have freedom of speech, which is part of that First Amendment.

    China doesn't, so does that mean we should be more like China?
    Lmao, most countries dont have a first amendment.

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    Who is that "1 person?"
    The person who has a problem with misinformation? Are you okay?

  11. #211
    Quote Originally Posted by JohnBrown1917 View Post
    If only reality worked like that and 1 person actually had that power. It gets billions of pageviews and you think 1 person can even make the smallest of dents? Your average person has far more power through democratic means.
    All a democracy is... is a bunch of those '1 person" joining together. It's no different than a group boycott.

    Boycotts are democracy in action.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnBrown1917 View Post
    Lmao, most countries dont have a first amendment.

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    The person who has a problem with misinformation? Are you okay?
    But, most countries do have freedom of speech, do they not?

    Now, the only real issue, is how much you want to curtail it. Since you cannot seem to cite a country you want to emulate, then we are stuck.

  12. #212
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    Quote Originally Posted by Machismo View Post
    All a democracy is... is a bunch of those '1 person" joining together. It's no different than a group boycott.

    Boycotts are democracy in action.
    Yeah, no, the wealthy have more influence over those companies, its equal at all between every user.


    Meanwhile, Facebook has 2.8 Billion users and the wealthy have far more direct control over it, a small country would have somewhere between 1million and 5 million voters[or more/less].

    Gee, I wonder where somebody would have far more power, living in a small country and voting for parties who support certain kinds of censorship or leaving facebook.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Machismo View Post
    But, most countries do have freedom of speech, do they not?

    Now, the only real issue, is how much you want to curtail it. Since you cannot seem to cite a country you want to emulate, then we are stuck.

    Not as limitless as you seem think it is, and its not that hard to write new laws and pass them with a simple majority.

  13. #213
    Quote Originally Posted by JohnBrown1917 View Post
    Yeah, no, the wealthy have more influence over those companies, its equal at all between every user.


    Meanwhile, Facebook has 2.8 Billion users and the wealthy have far more direct control over it, a small country would have somewhere between 1million and 5 million voters[or more/less].

    Gee, I wonder where somebody would have far more power, living in a small country and voting for parties who support certain kinds of censorship or leaving facebook.
    So, don't use Facebook. If you don't like that people are spreading misinformation, then ignore them, shun them... or even mock them.

    But, my guess is that you have no problem supporting that which you claim to despise.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnBrown1917 View Post
    Yeah, no, the wealthy have more influence over those companies, its equal at all between every user.


    Meanwhile, Facebook has 2.8 Billion users and the wealthy have far more direct control over it, a small country would have somewhere between 1million and 5 million voters[or more/less].

    Gee, I wonder where somebody would have far more power, living in a small country and voting for parties who support certain kinds of censorship or leaving facebook.

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    Not as limitless as you seem think it is, and its not that hard to write new laws and pass them with a simple majority.
    Where did I say it was limitless?

    Nowhere. You simply want to curtail it more than most. Of course, we still don't know how much, because you refuse to say.

    And, since you want to use government, and enforce censoring it, you sure as hell better be able to definitely show exactly what that entails.
    Last edited by Machismo; 2021-09-21 at 11:15 PM.

  14. #214
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    Quote Originally Posted by Machismo View Post
    You simply want to curtail it more than most. Of course, we still don't know how much, because you refuse to say.
    Nah, I keep saying that anti-vax misinformation is one of the big issues but you keep ignoring that.



    So, don't use Facebook. If you don't like that people are spreading misinformation, then ignore them, shun them... or even mock them.

    But, my guess is that you have no problem supporting that which you claim to despise.
    Again, most people that live in a democracy hold far more power by simply voting for a party that actually wants to do something about facebook.

    If 3million people in a small country stopped using facebook, nothing would change, if they all voted for pro-regulation parties something would change. This is not that hard, now is it?

  15. #215
    Quote Originally Posted by JohnBrown1917 View Post
    Nah, I keep saying that anti-vax misinformation is one of the big issues but you keep ignoring that.




    Again, most people that live in a democracy hold far more power by simply voting for a party that actually wants to do something about facebook.

    If 3million people in a small country stopped using facebook, nothing would change, if they all voted for pro-regulation parties something would change. This is not that hard, now is it?
    There's the problem, exactly what constitutes misinformation? As a government action, you would need to define it, and be able to make it a consistent reality.

    This is a subjective thing, most of the time.

    If 3 million people in a small country stopped using Facebook, plenty would happen. They'd seek alternative forms of entertainment, and news gathering. It's not hard. of course, China banned it... so be more like them, I guess...
    Last edited by Machismo; 2021-09-21 at 11:23 PM.

  16. #216
    Quote Originally Posted by Vegas82 View Post
    It’s almost like EVERY country censors SOME shit.
    I think it can be safely said that "freedom of speech" doesn't mean complete freedom of speech.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vegas82 View Post
    Seriously? Your argument is how can we know facts?
    Sounds like the anti-vaccine argument.

  17. #217
    Banned JohnBrown1917's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vegas82 View Post
    The more he posts the more it’s apparent he’s a Trumpist who had a personal hangup with Trump.
    I would almost say he was Ben Garrison if he loved drawing Trump's pecs.

  18. #218
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowferal View Post
    I think it can be safely said that "freedom of speech" doesn't mean complete freedom of speech.

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    Sounds like the anti-vaccine argument.
    Who is making that argument?

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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnBrown1917 View Post
    I would almost say he was Ben Garrison if he loved drawing Trump's pecs.
    Except... you know, I'm not a national socialist... or a fascist.

  19. #219
    There are sources for that instead of guessing "most".
    Not only that, they all vary. Bigly.
    See for yourself in links below.
    I'd love to post the map but I don't think we can.

    Not sure why anyone wants to start a claim based on guessing. Ever.
    Can you see how that would undermine any point you are trying to make?
    And yea, I think he pulled the alternative facts card.
    Facts are subjective most of the time is how I read that.
    If you don't like them, they aren't true.

    From the googs:
    sub·jec·tive
    /səbˈjektiv/
    adjective
    1.
    based on or influenced by personal feelings, tastes, or opinions.
    "his views are highly subjective"

    There's your problem right there.

    https://freedomhouse.org/countries/f...20and%20Status

    https://worldpopulationreview.com/co...edom-of-speech

  20. #220
    Quote Originally Posted by Machismo View Post
    This is simply a lie on your part. According to many, the government should punish you for that. Now, I don't believe it should be, but those who seek to nationalize sites like this... they most certainly do. Do you agree with them, that the government should nationalize all social media sites?
    No, its not.

    You told me it was a choice to go to Walmart when the only other alternative was to endanger the health of a child and then tried to blame me for it because I didn't have enough bug killer to deal with the infestation on the scale I discovered.

    No mistake about it, no lying either, you said I CHOSE to support Walmart's practices when I CHOSE to go there, when the alternative was endangering a child's health.

    Just like you talked about "Weening" elderly people off of Social Security onto nothing I guess as they don't have any real options at that point. All to avoid having the top pay payroll taxes on their capital gains as they have used that to dodge paying those taxes which they were originally intended to be paying into as well.

    You pretended that endangering a child is an option just to avoid giving business to the only open place at the time with the supplies to address it and you had no solution to the problem with social security that didn't cause unneeded suffering and in fact make that suffering unavoidable at the same time.


    And from what I can tell, going from what I skimmed. Under your analogy, it is completely flawed.

    If I allow someone into my house and then they start lying and spreading dangerous stuff and I don't actually address it and correct it while kicking them out, THEN I endorse and support that action by proxy.

    If I allow someone into my house and then they start doing that crap and I correct their lies to the rest and kick them out, then I don't endorse it. That's how it works.

    And if you have a people who outright refuse to hold them to account knowing exactly what they are doing when they are the owners of that service, they are endorsing it by proxy. All they have to do is address their terms of service about telling blatant misinformation being against it and ENFORCING it.
    Since we can't call out Trolls and Bad Faith posters and the Ignore function doesn't actually ignore it. Add
    "mmo-champion.com##li.postbitignored"
    to your ublock or adblock filter to actually ignore ignored posters. Now just need a way to ignore responses to them as well.

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