Maybe the game should be designed for mythic raiders?

[Empower]

The more I think about it the more it seems like everyone wins if blizzard focuses on mythic players. What do mythic players want? More dungeons and raids with decently tuned classes and nothing else.

How does everyone else win? Simple you just scale down the content and you get easier modes of what is designed and everyone gets more then they have now.

It isnt free mind you... such a system wouldn't tolerate choreghast, conduits, renowned, covenants , corruption and the assorted trash aimed at 80 hour a week " casuals" but I think this bold new approach might really revitalize the game.

[KOUNTERPARTS]

The more I think about it the more it seems like everyone wins if blizzard focuses on mythic players. What do mythic players want? More dungeons and raids with decently tuned classes and nothing else.

How does everyone else win? Simple you just scale down the content and you get easier modes of what is designed and everyone gets more then they have now.

It isnt free mind you... such a system wouldn't tolerate choreghast, conduits, renowned, covenants , corruption and the assorted trash aimed at 80 hour a week " casuals" but I think this bold new approach might really revitalize the game.

inb4 self-proclaimed super casuals pile and say the game is already designed for Mythic raiders.

[Slowpoke is a Gamer]

So you took 3 paragraphs to say "Remove Borrowed Power" like every other "how to fix WoW" thread?

Because that's already how dungeons/raids are made. They design the high-end version first then scale down and remove bits to get the easier difficulties.

[Bee76]

Rewarding content would be fine. Raids with loot for example

Or stuff like 5 mask visions. The game is tailored around cosmetics right now.

[Doombringer]

All Blizzard needs to do is get right with the idea that not every part of their game is going to appeal to every player, AND they can't force people into those parts either.

Mythic+ is pretty opt-in and I think it's fine. You already have dungeons and raids that are easy-medium-hard-veryhard.

Making something like Torghast mandatory for even the main story is stupid. Locking people into Convenants and tying player power to those abilities is stupid. Creating systems that exist only within an expansion or just one patch level is stupid.

[Myradin]

That's how we get cata and wod where people complain there's nothing to do beyond raidlog.

[Empower]

That's how we get cata and wod where people complain there's nothing to do beyond raidlog.

I recall no raider asking for a leveling revamp nor a garrison...

[Kokolums]

the game should be designed to be social. All other fixes will fail. Blizzard is just stubborn and wont do it. They will kill WoW before doing it.

[Toybox]

That's how we get cata and wod where people complain there's nothing to do beyond raidlog.

Poor planning & scrapping features is how we ended up with WoD. It's not like raiders wanted 2 tiers (& HM) for 20 months of an expansion either. WoD had a content shortage across the board, it's just that the two raid tiers they did have were really damn good.

[Echocho]

Might as well. All the casuals quit long ago due to neglect.

[AngerFork]

To some extent, perhaps...but there's a lot of good things I feel Mythic raiders wouldn't want that do add to the game as a whole. When their main target is mythic raiding, everything that isn't in the raid is an obstacle. Here's a few examples.

Pet battles? Mythic raiders have no time to play Pokemon when they are gearing up for the next prog boss.

Open world zones like Timeless Isle & Korthia? Not unless they drop gear to maximize my alts. Even then, adding more gear minimizes the effort I spent earlier on raids, making my raiding time pointless as far as gearing goes.

Mid-expansion dungeons? Maybe, if it gives good enough gear to help with my next raid.

New Races? Nah, that's art/dev time taken away from the team which could be used to make another new raid boss.

New Classes? Nah, we still have plenty here we need to balance first. And as they will never be fully balanced, we will always need more balancing done to them. Plus, then I have to rethink how my group is set up.

Leveling? It merely is something I need to speed through so I can get to gearing & preparing for the raid to come.

It's not that I don't think that designing some things more in line with raiders wouldn't help the game, but designing the whole thing for them would just throw too many other good options out of the game. Perhaps design more with them in mind, but keep in mind that there are non-raiders who play the game as well.

[mysticx]

It's not that I don't think that designing some things more in line with raiders wouldn't help the game, but designing the whole thing for them would just throw too many other good options out of the game. Perhaps design more with them in mind, but keep in mind that there are non-raiders who play the game as well.

That's why i always cringe a bit when people bring up raiders as the demographic to cater to, they have this nasty tendency to forget that relatively few people actually do the raids (It's why Blizz keeps LfR around, to bring participation numbers up into the double-digit percentages...), system on system with a sidedish of system is bad design, but stripping away everything that isn't a raid (Because those are all useless distractions) isn't the way either.

[xpsync]

I'm ilvl 250 M+ 2436 and 5/10 Mythic.

Up until 4 months into SL i always played casual, rare lfr like maybe 2, and at times lots of lfg depending on expac and my alt goals.

Met the right peeps and yeah, CE Raider.

The game is a disgusting display of how esport it is, it's no longer an mmorpg, meaning casuals are a very low priority, their is no attention payed to this player base and is why they all left for a real mmorpg, ffxiv, where they are welcome as human equals whom just want to have fun, and not treated like lower forms of life as the elitist snob's in wow do. There is a very deep core of sickness in players whom whole life evolves around them being the shit in game cause they are losers in life, not everyone but being up in this crowd, as they know people, who know people and i meet lots of people, yeah wow my dudes!!! git gud at life ffs. Not everyone, there are some decent down to earth players whom just love to raid, but i never knew it was this bad till i joined this crowd.

So yeah i don't even know why they call it an mmorpg anymore, it's an esport, notice the every expac zones get smaller, quests are few, but i'll admit the raids are awesome af, the mythic plus needs to go as that purely breeds toxicity, i mean what would you expect from a feature developed by sexual predators.

Looks probable we are stuck at 5/10 mythic as we just lost our prime healer to ffxiv, which is ok as i'm heading in to New World, i'll still show up for raid nights ofc, but outside of that it's nice not being around this toxicity.

So agreed let all the elitist snobs finally have their game and let casuals be free to play real mmorpg's, the game totally focuses on mythic players, and mythic content, they treat mythic players like rock stars, it's all about raids and M+, the game is already designed for Mythic raiders 100%!!! Casual lives don't matter. Gawd i can't wait for New World and take a shower and wash the filth of this game off. lol just being dramatic. Still showing up for raid while we still have enough players, but i don't know, we losing peeps to real mmorpgs, or peeps that just are disgusted with Blizz and are stepping out for a bit. I canceled my sub, i go 6 months and still have 4 left so, smarten the fuck up blizz, know your audience. OK you didn't know sexual predators were designing the steaming pile of shit the game has turned into M+ like my gawd what an stupid af unoriginal toxic brewery that is, time to turn it around. Thank gawd for New World.

[loras]

The more I think about it the more it seems like everyone wins if blizzard focuses on mythic players. What do mythic players want? More dungeons and raids with decently tuned classes and nothing else.

How does everyone else win? Simple you just scale down the content and you get easier modes of what is designed and everyone gets more then they have now.

It isnt free mind you... such a system wouldn't tolerate choreghast, conduits, renowned, covenants , corruption and the assorted trash aimed at 80 hour a week " casuals" but I think this bold new approach might really revitalize the game.

That is pretty much what's currently the case though, as can be seen from the showcased world first stuff.

The added fluff you mention is just poorly thought out systems where they tried to do something good (and sometimes succeeded), but eventually always failed, usually because greed and manipulativeness took hold. And they're really not smart enough to do those things well.

Mind you that manipulativeness also consists of stroking people's ego so that they feel they've "achieved" somrthing by pressing buttons and watching flashy lights for days on end, which in turn causes partially intentional flaws and disbalances in the game.

[Lochton]

The more I think about it the more it seems like everyone wins if blizzard focuses on mythic players. What do mythic players want? More dungeons and raids with decently tuned classes and nothing else.

How does everyone else win? Simple you just scale down the content and you get easier modes of what is designed and everyone gets more then they have now.

It isnt free mind you... such a system wouldn't tolerate choreghast, conduits, renowned, covenants , corruption and the assorted trash aimed at 80 hour a week " casuals" but I think this bold new approach might really revitalize the game.

Yeah, no. Bigger loss focusing on a single group, especially if they are just Mythic Raiders.

[Alroxas]

The more I think about it the more it seems like everyone wins if blizzard focuses on mythic players.

Wait wasn't there a MMORPG that catered to that specific thing? Wasn't it called Wild Star? Didn't Wild Star get canceled?

So what did we learn today class?

[oldgeezer]

The more I think about it the more it seems like everyone wins if blizzard focuses on mythic players. What do mythic players want? More dungeons and raids with decently tuned classes and nothing else.

It sounds like you should be playing WildStar.

[Ielenia]

The more I think about it the more it seems like everyone wins if blizzard focuses on mythic players. What do mythic players want? More dungeons and raids with decently tuned classes and nothing else.

How does everyone else win? Simple you just scale down the content and you get easier modes of what is designed and everyone gets more then they have now.

It isnt free mind you... such a system wouldn't tolerate choreghast, conduits, renowned, covenants , corruption and the assorted trash aimed at 80 hour a week " casuals" but I think this bold new approach might really revitalize the game.

... Yeah. Great idea. Design the system around the ~1% of the playerbase is always a sure-fire recipe for success.

[Littlechamp]

When a game is hard, it brings challenge, challenge brings more players.
This is why lol or dota had so many players, players need challenge, casual or hardcore.

Even my super casual players stopped playing at Cata cos obtaining stuff got so easy.

[Empower]

Wait wasn't there a MMORPG that catered to that specific thing? Wasn't it called Wild Star? Didn't Wild Star get canceled?

So what did we learn today class?

That no one played wildstar and half a decade after its death people still describe a different game to what it was based off a single web ad?

- - - Updated - - -

... Yeah. Great idea. Design the system around the ~1% of the playerbase is always a sure-fire recipe for success.

Kinda is... unless your arguing tbc, wrath, cata, where all less successful then choreghast.