Should states in the U.S raise minimum wage or abolish it completely?

[Necromantic]

And?

You know you can get financing for a car, right? You're not paying MSRP up front.

What next, complain that they also have newer iPhones?

Nobody is complaining about anything. The point is that people can manage to get these things without making crazy wages that some people seem to think they need to make. Larger cities do have higher costs of living but no, people do not need higher minimum wages overall. Maybe in bigger cities.

The problem with your argument is that you accept people struggling to maintain housing or put decent food on the table as an acceptable "means" within which to try and live. You support that level of misanthropy as a desireable outcome.

There is no misanthropy. Nobody here has said or implied they dislike humankind.

People struggling is a double-edged sword. I see plenty who struggle because, as stated, live outside of their means. High school dropout rates go up and these same people expect to make large salaries. I'm sorry but... no.

[Elegiac]

An apt that's 450/month isn't likely in a neighborhood that anyone would want to live in.

Trapping people in poverty and then blaming them for not being able to escape it is as American as apple pie.

[Necromantic]

An apt that's 450/month isn't likely in a neighborhood that anyone would want to live in.

It's right on our main road. I do not live in a high crime city. We have LOTS of apartments like that and even many government funded ones that are income based. We also have luxury apartments for $800 a month.

[Elegiac]

Nobody is complaining about anything. The point is that people can manage to get these things without making crazy wages that some people seem to think they need to make.

By financing it with debt, which is not sustainable on a macro level.

You're not actually refuting that there's a wage problem, just so you're aware.

[Necromantic]

Trapping people in poverty and then blaming them for not being able to escape it is as American as apple pie.

Yeah, don't feed me that line of crap. People choosing to live the way they are then pretending to be the victim and expecting freebies. Yeah... no, not buying it.

[Elegiac]

It's right on our main road. I do not live in a high crime city. We have LOTS of apartments like that and even many government funded ones that are income based. We also have luxury apartments for $800 a month.

Again: no, you don't.

This is very easily accessible data so I'm not sure why you think people won't look it up when you make silly claims like this.

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Yeah, don't feed me that line of crap. People choosing to live the way they are

Most of the time, they don't. Financial circumstances are generally inherited and are far more influenced by external factors like the market than individual level decisions.

[Necromantic]

You're not actually refuting that there's a wage problem, just so you're aware.

Don't need to, I do not believe there is one outside of large cities. I can sure as heck assure you there isn't one anywhere near where I live. Entitled people is all I see.

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Again: no, you don't.

This is very easily accessible data so I'm not sure why you think people won't look it up when you make silly claims like this.

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Yeah I do. Whatever you're posting is either crap or misleading. For what that says over my county, you can get a house for those prices.

[Shadowferal]

By financing it with debt, which is not sustainable on a macro level. You're not actually refuting that there's a wage problem, just so you're aware.

His understanding of the problem is superficial. Like any GOPer and libertarian he imagines it's all about bootstraps.

[Elegiac]

Don't need to, I do not believe there is one outside of large cities. I can sure as heck assure you there isn't one anywhere near where I live. Entitled people is all I see.

That's nice dear, but given that we've seen the actual data regarding Michigan it's farily clear that "what you see" is very different from what actually happens.

[Edge-]

Don't need to, I do not believe there is one outside of large cities.

Save money on rent living far outside the city you work in, spend more on commuting either between gas/vehicle maintenance or through paying for public transport and losing hours upon hours of your day in traffic/waiting on transit.

I mean yeah, again, doable. But also, again, often traps people in poverty since the money "saved" by living outside of the city just ends up getting spent on transportation.

[Elegiac]

Yeah I do. Whatever you're posting is either crap or misleading.

It's literally the fair market rental rates in Michigan on a per-county basis, none of which are "450 including everything but power" like you claimed.

The fair rate is in excess of $480 and that's, again, in largely bumfuck counties with high unemployment and low services that would do exactly nothing to enable people to escape poverty.

[Santti]

His understanding of the problem is superficial. Like any GOPer and libertarian he imagines it's all about bootstraps.

And any improvements are perceived as being unfair by the ones who had to struggle before.

[Endus]

Nobody is complaining about anything.

You have literally spent the thread complaining about;
A> people living outside their means
B> people buying new cars
C> people being "lazy"

Off the top of my head without trying to be thorough about it. I'm sure there's more.

The point is that people can manage to get these things without making crazy wages that some people seem to think they need to make. Larger cities do have higher costs of living but no, people do not need higher minimum wages overall. Maybe in bigger cities.

And you're objectively wrong about this. You've provided nothing to back it up, and the multiple sources provided by others all flatly contradict you on this claim.

You're pushing imaginary nonsense that is disconnected from reality.

There is no misanthropy. Nobody here has said or implied they dislike humankind.

If you're okay with people being paid less than a living wage, which would see them struggling and suffering, then that's misanthropy. That suffering and hardship isn't an accident, it's something you're actively trying to foster.

People struggling is a double-edged sword. I see plenty who struggle because, as stated, live outside of their means. High school dropout rates go up and these same people expect to make large salaries. I'm sorry but... no.

$20/hour is not a "large salary".

Also, high school dropout rates have been steadily declining. So you are, again, just inventing imaginary horseshit to justify your misanthropy.



2016 figures because that's the most recent chart I can find.

[Necromantic]

Save money on rent living far outside the city you work in, spend more on commuting either between gas/vehicle maintenance or through paying for public transport and losing hours upon hours of your day in traffic/waiting on transit.

I mean yeah, again, doable. But also, again, often traps people in poverty since the money "saved" by living outside of the city just ends up getting spent on transportation.

Don't have to do that. It's a 5 minute drive from the apartments in town to my place of employment, which is the largest in the city. Not the only place, but the largest.

That's nice dear, but given that we've seen the actual data regarding Michigan it's farily clear that "what you see" is very different from what actually happens.

Yeah, still not buying it, "dear".

It's literally the fair market rental rates in Michigan on a per-county basis, none of which are "450 including everything but power" like you claimed.

The fair rate is in excess of $480 and that's, again, in largely bumfuck counties with high unemployment and low services that would do exactly nothing to enable people to escape poverty.

Don't care, I know what we have available around here. Available houses/apartments for rent/sale are plastered all over our town in social media.

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You have literally spent the thread complaining about;
A> people living outside their means
B> people buying new cars
C> people being "lazy"

Off the top of my head without trying to be thorough about it. I'm sure there's more.



And you're objectively wrong about this. You've provided nothing to back it up, and the multiple sources provided by others all flatly contradict you on this claim.

You're pushing imaginary nonsense that is disconnected from reality.



If you're okay with people being paid less than a living wage, which would see them struggling and suffering, then that's misanthropy. That suffering and hardship isn't an accident, it's something you're actively trying to foster.



$20/hour is not a "large salary".

Also, high school dropout rates have been steadily declining. So you are, again, just inventing imaginary horseshit to justify your misanthropy.



2016 figures because that's the most recent chart I can find.

That's not complaining.

I'm just shaking my head at people who are under some illusion that they deserve to make crazy wages for doing the lowest line jobs. People working in fast food thinking they need to make factory wages, etc.

[Elegiac]

Yeah, still not buying it.

Good on you for being forward in admitting your position isn't based on anything but subjective bias, I guess? Rofl.

[Endus]

That's not complaining.

I'm just shaking my head at people who are under some illusion that they deserve to make crazy wages for doing the lowest line jobs. People working in fast food thinking they need to make factory wages, etc.

A living wage is not "crazy wages". It's literally a bare minimum for modest living.

I'll also note that everyone else has provided data and justification for their points, whereas your stance is "I can see low rents from my house! Honest!" Given you lied about high school dropout rates, objectively and determinably, I have no reason to take anything else you're saying at face value.

[Necromantic]

Good on you for being forward in admitting your position isn't based on anything but subjective bias, I guess? Rofl.

Says the pot/kettle. Run along (for the 4th time).

[Elegiac]

That's not complaining.

You're right, technically speaking it's whinging rather than complaining.

I'm just shaking my head at people who are under some illusion that they deserve to make crazy wages for doing the lowest line jobs. People working in fast food thinking they need to make factory wages, etc.

A livable wage is not a "crazy wage".

[Necromantic]

A living wage is not "crazy wages". It's literally a bare minimum for modest living.

If you want a living wage (to some), stop working at McDonalds thinking you deserve one that people busting their behinds in factories make. It's ridiculous.

[Elegiac]

Says the pot/kettle.

I've provided you multiple sources backing up my arguments, bruh.

As with strawmen, I don't think you understand the meaning of hypocrisy either.

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If you want a living wage (to some), stop working at McDonalds thinking you deserve one that people busting their behinds in factories make. It's ridiculous.

Fairly telling that you think working in food service is easy.