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  1. #21
    The Insane Thage's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Super Dickmann View Post
    Sylvanas was deeply attracted to bald men and she used that fetish to cope with her poor life choices. When the Jailer put his hat on she could no longer see his blinding cranium and so could no longer justify staying with him.
    I believe it was the nipples that did her in. Perky and erect, they drew her gaze and distracted her from the truth, and once lust no longer surged through her loins after he covered up, she realized she'd been a fool.
    Be seeing you guys on Bloodsail Buccaneers NA!



  2. #22
    I sorta feel like it'd have made more sense if Sylvannas didn't act like such a villain in cata and on. Like she was actually a character that stood for freedom and not someone who was intentionally raising more undead and comitting genocide.

    Bons points if they'd have made it so the Jailer had contacted her before the LK's death to help her take down the LK (since the LK went against his will apparently). That way one could even see any questionable actions after the LK's death as her 'repaying the debt'.

    But no, this woman goes around being a mass murdering, undead raising, lich queen for years, has a number of "all will serve me/death" lines, and then has the gall to make some big claims of "I will never serve!".

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Eazy View Post
    find a logical answer for her idiotic behaviour.
    It's the writers who are idiots, just sayin'. She's a fictional character, the writers are actual people.

  4. #24
    no it really is just ankle deep. kind of like how the pants are always around the ankles of the Blizzard Devs when it comes to the story of this game.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chumahki View Post
    It's the writers who are idiots, just sayin'. She's a fictional character, the writers are actual people.
    it's not just the writers, people in charge see what they wrote and gave it the green light. honestly the writers have the very thankless job of constantly having to figure out ways to get out being being painted into a corner because this is a game where there isn't supposed to be an end to the story. it's why in Gilligan's island they never leave the island, because if they did that would be the end of the show. it's pretty much the exact same principal at work with WoW.

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Myradin View Post
    I sorta feel like it'd have made more sense if Sylvannas didn't act like such a villain in cata and on. Like she was actually a character that stood for freedom and not someone who was intentionally raising more undead and comitting genocide.

    Bons points if they'd have made it so the Jailer had contacted her before the LK's death to help her take down the LK (since the LK went against his will apparently). That way one could even see any questionable actions after the LK's death as her 'repaying the debt'.

    But no, this woman goes around being a mass murdering, undead raising, lich queen for years, has a number of "all will serve me/death" lines, and then has the gall to make some big claims of "I will never serve!".
    The twist would have been weird, but also far more palatable if Sylvanas wasn't to absurdly evil in BfA.
    Had she never burnt down Teldrassil for instance then the misguided angle would work far better, but as it stands she goes from straight up Satan in BfA, then suddenly spins on a dime to be sympathetic to the very people she just abandoned to be killed by N'zoth. The math simply doesn't add up.
    The world revamp dream will never die!

  6. #26
    There's a story where all the events in that world are decided by leaders who race turtles. Maybe the WoW writers use dice instead and Sylvie's number just kept coming up on top? Or maybe they've been smoking something - what's that saying: only drunk people get drunk jokes?

  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Powerogue View Post
    In a nutshell:



    Not her brightest move, for sure, but she convinced herself it was the only option to avoid the suffering of the Maw, and any hope that the current system could be salvaged was folly. Better to "burn it" all down and make something else.

    Dominating others? Sure. Dominating her and forcing her to serve? No sirree. So it should be noted she has still done absolutely nothing selfless or redemptive.
    Doesn't even REMOTELY sum it up as almost every single reply above you and including you seems to have no paid a bit of attention out of blind hatred for Blizzard or just following some random streamer you heard say lore is bad.

    She was shown(we haven't really been yet, but only alluded to) that life and death are intertwined cycles therefore the death of people on Azeroth is essentially meaningless hence there is no remorse for the deaths caused in BfA etc.

    The Jailer saw that cycle when he was the Arbiter and wanted to break it because it was meaningless etc and allowed no real free will as Sylvanas was saying to Anduin. As a result the others turned on him and smacked him down into the maw.

    He convinced Denathrius and Sylvanas and eventually got back to a point where he could achieve his goal, but he was too jaded by their betrayal that he wanted servitude from those who would deny his goal which was never the plan and as such she turned on him. He knew there was nothing she could do and was grateful so returned her soul piece.

    But hey let's scream bad lore when you don't really pay attention to 90% of it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Myradin View Post
    I sorta feel like it'd have made more sense if Sylvannas didn't act like such a villain in cata and on. Like she was actually a character that stood for freedom and not someone who was intentionally raising more undead and comitting genocide.

    Bons points if they'd have made it so the Jailer had contacted her before the LK's death to help her take down the LK (since the LK went against his will apparently). That way one could even see any questionable actions after the LK's death as her 'repaying the debt'.

    But no, this woman goes around being a mass murdering, undead raising, lich queen for years, has a number of "all will serve me/death" lines, and then has the gall to make some big claims of "I will never serve!".
    Except she isn't evil in her mind because she knows truths the other mortals and our PCs do not know. They've been alluded to so far, but not flat out stated. I mean my god it's funny how people want her and the jailer to be Saturday morning cartoon villains who tell you their whole plan and are completely transparent and somehow act like they are that way now. We haven't been privy to what the two discussed other than very certain things that were coming to pass in game shortly.

  8. #28
    There's nothing to make sense of. It's so bad I am starting to think it's an intentional sabotage of the lore, because the level of incompetence in the writing takes more effort than putting out something at least partially okay.

  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by ohwell View Post
    Except she isn't evil in her mind because she knows truths the other mortals and our PCs do not know. .
    That's arrogance that went straight to hubris then.

  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by ohwell View Post
    Doesn't even REMOTELY sum it up as almost every single reply above you and including you seems to have no paid a bit of attention out of blind hatred for Blizzard or just following some random streamer you heard say lore is bad.

    She was shown(we haven't really been yet, but only alluded to) that life and death are intertwined cycles therefore the death of people on Azeroth is essentially meaningless hence there is no remorse for the deaths caused in BfA etc.

    The Jailer saw that cycle when he was the Arbiter and wanted to break it because it was meaningless etc and allowed no real free will as Sylvanas was saying to Anduin. As a result the others turned on him and smacked him down into the maw.

    He convinced Denathrius and Sylvanas and eventually got back to a point where he could achieve his goal, but he was too jaded by their betrayal that he wanted servitude from those who would deny his goal which was never the plan and as such she turned on him. He knew there was nothing she could do and was grateful so returned her soul piece.

    But hey let's scream bad lore when you don't really pay attention to 90% of it..
    I mean I read all of it and watch lore analysis videos for fun, but OK.

    Emphasis on "alluded to", most of what you said is entirely headcanon, based on what you interpret from Sylvanas's hints, most of which she's been cut off before elaborating further.

    It's equally plausible the Jailer lied to Sylvanas about nearly everything, and Denathrius was the one who was let in on the true plan: Domination For Everyone! Freedom is for suckers who believe a guy named The Jailer with a chains motif and a deep evil voice who names his raid patch Chains of Domination wouldn't want to dominate people the way the Lich King, who he created, did.
    Quote Originally Posted by Aucald View Post
    Having the authority to do a thing doesn't make it just, moral, or even correct.

  11. #31
    Herald of the Titans
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    Look at the state of Texas when it comes to masks, the vaccine, and abortion, emotions can cause intelligent people to support stupid causes.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chumahki View Post
    It's the writers who are idiots, just sayin'. She's a fictional character, the writers are actual people.
    Gratz, you just took away a reason to have a discussion about any fictional character.

  12. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by Thage View Post
    I believe it was the nipples that did her in. Perky and erect, they drew her gaze and distracted her from the truth, and once lust no longer surged through her loins after he covered up, she realized she'd been a fool.
    A compelling alternative. To think he could've secured her allegiance by using his godlike powers to put a boob window in his plate.
    Dickmann's Law: As a discussion on the Lore forums becomes longer, the probability of the topic derailing to become about Sylvanas approaches 1.

    Tinkers will be the next Class confirmed.

  13. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by ohwell View Post
    Doesn't even REMOTELY sum it up as almost every single reply above you and including you seems to have no paid a bit of attention out of blind hatred for Blizzard or just following some random streamer you heard say lore is bad.

    She was shown(we haven't really been yet, but only alluded to) that life and death are intertwined cycles therefore the death of people on Azeroth is essentially meaningless hence there is no remorse for the deaths caused in BfA etc.
    what are you trying to say here? are you trying to say that everyone reencarnates not just the people on ardeenwald?? what it is supposed to mean "intertwined cycles of life and death"??.
    Last edited by Piamonte; 2021-09-27 at 04:48 AM.

  14. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by Super Dickmann View Post
    A compelling alternative. To think he could've secured her allegiance by using his godlike powers to put a boob window in his plate.
    I think you need to rewatch the cinematic, clearly he tried hence the hole in his breastplate.
    Maybe his powers were not enough to conjure a slutmog, maybe he simply didn't comprehend the extent of Sylvanus' lust. But one thing is clear, his plans will have failed because his breast window was not large enough.
    The world revamp dream will never die!

  15. #35
    She had a sudden change of heart - courtesy of the writers' progressive attitudes.

  16. #36
    Titan Al Gorefiend's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Catalept View Post
    For reasons that will be revealed in an upcoming book(1), Sylvanas wants to break the cycle(2). She made a deal with, or was tricked by, or thought she could help(3) the Jailer to do this. Unfortunately, it turned out that the Jailer wasn't just cunning (like Sylvanas), indifferent to the suffering of others (like Sylvanas), but was also manipulative and ambitious (like Sylvanas)... in a shocking reveal that everyone saw coming except Slyvanas, he wants to go to the Sepulchre(4) and remake reality(5) so that all(6) will serve him. Sylvanas decides that after serving him for two expansions (at least), she will never(7) serve him. To set things up for her redemption arc, he also gave back the good half of her soul. This has successfully made every night elf player in WoW suddenly feel sorry for her(8).

    1. The book will not be free. It will be released well after the point where it would have been helpful establishing context for WTF is going on in Shadowlands.
    2. There is no cycle. Apart from rare, Ardenwealdy exceptions, people are born, they die, they go to the afterlife and either stay there, or fizzle out into batteries. I think Sylvanas just hates cyclists.
    3. The details and circumstances of Sylvannas' relationship with the Jailer are unknown. Possibly even by Blizzard.
    4. This is a place we didn't know existed until 9.1. In game characters avoid talking about in it our presence. This has helped to build zero anticipation.
    5. We have no idea to what extent he can do this, or why he even needs to if he can outright take charge of the endless realms of the Shadowlands. Can he alter or eliminate Titans? Void Lords? Even Classic botters? We don't know.
    6. Again, we have no idea who 'all' is. Does he mean all mortals? Souls in the Shadowlands? Every sentient being in the cosmos? We'll find out what the stakes are exactly four weeks before we stop him.
    7. 'Never' is a complicated, subtle word with many different meanings. Like 'consistency', and 'consent'.
    8. We don't.
    NOTE: The above account is a work of satire. More knowledge players will be more helpful... but AFAICT that's the gist of it.
    this guys been playing wow for a long time.

  17. #37
    Given our current information one could make the assertion that the Jailer is fighting for a solution to male pattern baldness, which has consumed his mind into declaring war against his creators. With Sylvanas getting tired of his endless mumbling.

    Jokes aside here is what i could gather/think up to connect the dots lending quite the bit of benefit of the doubt to the writers responsible for this mess:
    Back in direct aftermath of Arthas fight the Edge of Night took place, which served to establish that death isn't an option, for Sylvanas, because the afterlife is basically eternal torture beyond description creatively described as "Complete darkness and unimaginable pain", from which she has been saved through making a deal with the Val'kyr, who had also given her a peak into a future without her, where the Forsaken get used up as Gary's canon fodder and wiped out. This sends her on a quest to consolidate, fortify, etc. witht he ultimate goal of preserving both herself and her Forsaken, because if you don't stay dead you don't have to deal with a shit afterlife. This advances the story into Legion, where she finally has a solution to making Val'kyr and resolving the whole Forsaken dying out+shit afterlife thing, until Greymane shatters that into pieces(literally). If we take Afrasiabi quotes, at face value and as canon then she has been, at least indirectly in some sort of contact with the Jailer since the Wrath events through the Val'kyr, but by the end of Legion two important things she was aware of occured.
    1. She was really starting to run out of Val'kyrs, who could keep her out of shit afterlife.
    2. The arbiter broke and literally everyone was going into that same shit afterlife.
    Which puts us into the we have no idea territory, because Blizz didn't even hint at that kind of stuff outside of an occasional "She do dark juju, not good", from various characters like Bwonsamdi and Azshara so it's kind of reaching. My current interpretation is that the Jailer needed souls from Azeroth, because they're infused with titan juice like no other mortals, in the universe and proposed to Sylvanas an aliance of convenience, where they'd destroy the unfair shit afterlife and make something better. With him appealing to Sylvanas's predicament and embelishing it with some things she'd like to believe. (Notably she is hardly the only one sold on a similar pitch, for example the Forsworn(Denathrius and Dreadlords are mroe on the cosmic supremacist thing, which is probably more in line with what he actually wants)) Leading to a point, where Sylvanas begrudgingly goes through the motions sternly believing it will all be worth it, in the end. Everyone will be free to choose their destiny instead of having it be preordained, shitty afterlife will not exist and such. The cinematics show her beginning to doubt Jailer acting in good faith toward their bargain, which is reinforced by the things which happen regarding Anduin, especially their last talk where Anduin proclaims that they will both lose themselves, before this nirvana of hers will come to pass.

    I can't emphasise enough that the story is not well written, paced or conceived. It's missing fundamental story relevannt information, in favor of wierd trivia, launches build up to events way after the events have transpired and just is a very hard to follow halfbaked mess, which is an even more bitter pill to swallow given that the main storyline of the last xpac was sacrificed to make this shitshow happen.

  18. #38
    From where I stand, it's either terrible writing (not really a shocker) or we are only shown parts of the whole picture. I gave my two cents about it a while ago.

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