Maybe the game should be designed for mythic raiders?

[arkanon]

No? There are none that I know. You asked about knowing people who play 80+ hours a week, in disbelief that such a thing exists in any serious number. I personally know 0 mythic raiders and one person who plays 80+ hours a week.

If you want to talk general realm estimates, I'm sure there are plenty of mythic raiders, but a tiny minority compared to the number of casual players who play a lot.

No one, and i mean NO ONE is making the argument that there are more mythic raiders than "casual" players - you know why? Because nearly every single player in the game identifies themselves as "casual" because it lacks a definition, and is considered more favorable than saying "im hardcore". So please, stop attacking the argument that there are more mythic raiders than casuals, because NO ONE is saying anything contrary.

You squirm and dodge a VERY simple question - what realm do you play on that you are entirely unaware of anyone raiding mythic - you have never once in your life seen guilds recruiting for mythic, groups lfm for mythic, or a person running around in mythic gear? Do you understand how unreasonable that sounds for the majority of realms? Thats why I asked what realm you play on, because it must be one of the select few with ZERO mythic raiders.

Thankfully for you, its not too difficult to identify one of those realms and just lie and say you play on said realm, but im confident you wouldnt do that. So how do you know your friend plays over 80 hours every week? 12 hours (almost) a day 7 days a week is a bloody serious commitment, dont you think? So serious in fact that many developed countries have labor laws that would make this illegal if it was a paid job.

Even if I accept that you have never met and are not aware of a single person who has ever raided mythic, and that you somehow have some kind of proof that this friend of yours plays 12 hours per day, 7 days a week - do you believe there are more people who kill mythic raid bosses, or more people who play 12 hours per day, 7 days a week?

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Ff14 isn't designed around savage raiders.

https://www.mmo-champion.com/forums/...al-Fantasy-XIV

[Osmeric]

I mean have we come to an agreement on what constitutes a Mythic Raider?

How about "those who would quit the game if there were no M raiding difficulty".

[delus]

https://www.mmo-champion.com/forums/...al-Fantasy-XIV

You completely missed the point. It is the main competition for WOW and is according to some metrics becoming more successful. Blizzard needs to take a hint from what works and employ successful strategies to make their game successful.

[darklogrus]

How about "those who would quit the game if there were no M raiding difficulty".

Im sure those numbers would be flooded with people who think their bad asses at 1/10M and those people who love to buy their AOTC/Mythic carry mounts..

[Daedius]

WildStar says "Hello" from the grave.

[erifwodahs]

I used to solo and was oblivious to this side of the game, now that I'm there, i didn't know it was such a sorry state of serious no lifers is all, that is what is sad my dude.

The thing is, it's not that elite in that it's not that hard, it's just repetitive af and massively time consuming, which yea i love the raids and i hate being forced to do M+ to do so, which is stupid af cause i'm even hitting 21 on half them now helping guild mates, it's more annoying than anything, far from fun and in raid still 5/10 mythic lost more people to ffxiv cause they want to enjoy life i guess and all we've done since is take down soulrender a 3rd time.

I dunno just makes me laugh at how people think they are so superior over casual players and casuals are low life losers is all, when in fact what they feel superior about is not hard at all, just life sucking, all it shows is how little you are doing with your real life and what a loser you are is all anyone thinks, they ain't going omg look at him he's so amazing, they are just feeling sad for you that you have no life, and is why i'm out of CE come 9.2 it's just a waste of life, heroic you can just slam through that in no time and enjoy life again, and those who feel they are superior are the real losers, as casual players have a life, they are the winners.

Are you ok? Because it seems that you have some real issues. I am not even going to read that You obviously are playing a wrong game. Constructing strawmans to fights against Might as well create an alt account at this point to argue against yourself.

[Empower]

This sort of assumption is just as bogus as the 80-hour player stuff. There's zero data to support this conclusion. If we can obsess pedantically over every assumption that gets stated and discount them for lack of hard data, this one is easy. There's no way to prove or even quantify it.

I really, really think you would be hard pressed to find people caring about conduits who are not mythic raiders or ranked pvpers... I'm not saying they don't exist in utterly extreme fringes but it's not a logical leap to assume they are not here in numbers.

[Hitei]

No one, and i mean NO ONE is making the argument that there are more mythic raiders than "casual" players - you know why? Because nearly every single player in the game identifies themselves as "casual" because it lacks a definition, and is considered more favorable than saying "im hardcore". So please, stop attacking the argument that there are more mythic raiders than casuals, because NO ONE is saying anything contrary.

You squirm and dodge a VERY simple question - what realm do you play on that you are entirely unaware of anyone raiding mythic - you have never once in your life seen guilds recruiting for mythic, groups lfm for mythic, or a person running around in mythic gear? Do you understand how unreasonable that sounds for the majority of realms? Thats why I asked what realm you play on, because it must be one of the select few with ZERO mythic raiders.

Thankfully for you, its not too difficult to identify one of those realms and just lie and say you play on said realm, but im confident you wouldnt do that.

I didn't dodge the question at all? Hello? I literally just explained my answer to you. Please don't try this scummy shit. I play on US MG, and I don't personally know any mythic raiders. I'm sure there are plenty, but I don't know any of them, I couldn't give you a single name because no one in my network of players mythic raids.

So how do you know your friend plays over 80 hours every week? 12 hours (almost) a day 7 days a week is a bloody serious commitment, dont you think? So serious in fact that many developed countries have labor laws that would make this illegal if it was a paid job.

Even if I accept that you have never met and are not aware of a single person who has ever raided mythic, and that you somehow have some kind of proof that this friend of yours plays 12 hours per day, 7 days a week - do you believe there are more people who kill mythic raid bosses, or more people who play 12 hours per day, 7 days a week?

Because he's my friend? He's on my friendlist so I can see when he's online and in game. We're frequently sitting in vent together with other friends playing games, and he's the sort of person who will make a comment in vent about stuff PuGs do, or shit someone said in trade chat, or whatever. Likewise, I have a second friend who plays off and on (like for maybe six months at the start of an expansion and then in few month bursts later on) who plays probably 10+ hours a day when playing.

I don't know what casual means :^)

, okay sure, in the interest of appealing to your weird, intentionally obtuse shit:
There are very, very few mythic raiders compared to people who only ever touch LFR in terms of "raiding". There are very, very few mythic raiders compared to people who only ever do normal or heroic raids. Mythic raiders are an extreme minority in every aspect.

I also don't know why you are obsessively trying to pursue this specific time metric as if it is the crucial data point--well, that's not true, let me correct myself: I know that you are obsessively pursuing this data point because you yourself know that mythic raiders are an extreme minority, but you think if you can just disprove Deadite's original hyperbolic comment, by association it will also disprove that mythic raiders are a minority--but the 80 hours a week isn't the actual data point of interest here. It's that casuals, sorry let me be specific, people who do only LFR and mythic 0 dungeons, but play everyday or nearly every day (read: are active players) entirely dwarf the whole mythic raiding scene, making it a pretty stupid move to design for that minority rather than the majority.

[Soon-TM]

Blizzard needs to take a hint from what works and employ successful strategies to make their game successful.

This is exactly what made Blizzard great in the first place, taking cues from similar games, i.e. adopting successful features and deleting the most annoying/outdated ones. But at some point, they decided that they were God's gift to humankind (at least when it comes to gaming) and stubbornly decided to keep churning the same crap, in a more and more annoying fashion as time went by.

[Thage]

This is exactly what made Blizzard great in the first place, taking cues from similar games, i.e. adopting successful features and deleting the most annoying/outdated ones. But at some point, they decided that they were God's gift to humankind (at least when it comes to gaming) and stubbornly decided to keep churning the same crap, in a more and more annoying fashion as time went by.

You could probably map out a strong correlation with their increasing hubris and the rise of 'the Blizzard rockstar' personas. Which is why I consider it only a good thing the more 'rockstars' leave the company and up-and-comers rise through the ranks.

[khazmodan]

WildStar says "Hello" from the grave.

It is kind of sad that Wildstar died, it was a game with plenty of good ideas but the flaws were many and while WoW is cartoonish, Wildstar went a bit over the line and lost the ability to show an immersive dark side.

[Argorwal]

You could probably map out a strong correlation with their increasing hubris and the rise of 'the Blizzard rockstar' personas. Which is why I consider it only a good thing the more 'rockstars' leave the company and up-and-comers rise through the ranks.

You realize all the “rockstar” issues with the lawsuits is from the old devs right?

[potis]

Because nearly every single player in the game identifies themselves as "casual" because it lacks a definition, and is considered more favorable than saying "im hardcore".

It doesnt lack definition, but the secondary part you are right about.

Everyone puts the tag i am "casual" on them instead of what they know they are, bad at the game for various reasons, i really dont understand why people do that though, i guess crying about it instead of improving is easier?

No matter what the delusional players on any game believe the term "casual" is and it will always be, "mentality towards that particular game", no matter how hard they try to twist it, thats literally what it is, as the term itself.

Someone else said it better on these forums before, "Anyone that plays more than me is hardcore, and everyone that plays less than me must be trash, since i am a casual" that seems to be happening with the WoW community generally.

Only problem is, when you tell these people "Yeah, i play 5-7h/week and i am gear capped on 3 characters, 5 months into the patch, while your main is 20 ilvls below", thats where the bell in the brain rings that they were called out on their bullshit and the "Casual" term comes out.

[Thage]

You realize all the “rockstar” issues with the lawsuits is from the old devs right?

Yes, that is pretty much exactly what I said. When they started getting the 'rockstar' treatment, that's when they began to grow more and more stubborn against incorporating ideas from other games and instead doubling and tripling down on their own ideas, which directly snowballed into the situation we have today. So the more 'rockstars' gone, the better.

[[KJ]]

It would be to much of a time investment, it’s not healthy for a game.

[Deadite]

No one, and i mean NO ONE is making the argument that there are more mythic raiders than "casual" players - you know why? Because nearly every single player in the game identifies themselves as "casual" because it lacks a definition, and is considered more favorable than saying "im hardcore". So please, stop attacking the argument that there are more mythic raiders than casuals, because NO ONE is saying anything contrary.

Seems like we all agree then.

[arkanon]

Seems like we all agree then.

The argument was NOT "more casuals than mythic raiders" - that was never your argument. The argument was that every single mythic raider could quit over night and not a single dev or player would notice, but, if all the 80+ hour per week players quit the game would die.

I continue to argue that the number of people playing for 12 hours a day, 7 days a week would be far lower that those who raid mythic. You and the others have done nothing to change that opinion, just fighting against the wind disproving strawmans and at least one person having to create entirely fake quotes to argue against because they couldn't argue against the points being raised.

[Ringthane]

I recall no raider asking for a leveling revamp nor a garrison...

I don't recall many players at all asking for them. So what? We got them anyway. And at the time, there were way more people playing who didn't raid than who did.

[Elias1337]

... Yeah. Great idea. Design the system around the ~1% of the playerbase is always a sure-fire recipe for success.

Yes it is. Becouse designing game around majority and casuals will only make game boring for everyone including casuals. Do you know why? Becouse content with high participation have to have no challenge or any sort of gameplay. Like current leveling on retail is made easy, nonchallenging and acessible so casuals can have fun right? Then why are casuals bored when this casual content is supostu be for casuals?

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So the smallest % of players should determine the design of the game....great plan. You do realize it's the 'casual' crowd that pays for subs with real money, right? I can't prove it of course, but I'd guess other than expansions where everybody pays, the vast majority of paid subscriptions are from non-raiders (lfr doesn't count).

And what makes you think that casuals would not enyoj content designed for non casual players?

[Deadite]

The argument was NOT "more casuals than mythic raiders" - that was never your argument. The argument was that every single mythic raider could quit over night and not a single dev or player would notice, but, if all the 80+ hour per week players quit the game would die.

I continue to argue that the number of people playing for 2 hours a day, 7 days a week would be far lower that those who raid mythic. You and the others have done nothing to change that opinion, just fighting against the wind disproving strawmans and at least one person having to create entirely fake quotes to argue against because they couldn't argue against the points being raised.

Yeah but only you think that and all we will do is argue about it. We are at an impasse. We don't have to convince each other.