[EU] Brexit negotiations at a standstill

[handlup]

Sky News.

The list seems pretty conclusive to be fair.

There are lots of reasons according to them.

Edit - can't paste the link.

Google this, you should find it.

story/supply-crisis-why-is-there-a-hgv-driver-shortage-and-how-bad-could-the-problem-get-12417317

There always seem to be some other reasons why the UK is a mess. I think, as do most people with intelligence, that if the country keeps going down the shithole its a trend not a series of random events.

[dribbles]

There always seem to be some other reasons why the UK is a mess. I think, as do most people with intelligence, that if the country keeps going down the shithole its a trend not a series of random events.

The UK has just left the shithole, now sovereign it's not stuck in it anymore. Meanwhile back at the Brussels Broadcasting Corporation...

BBC comes under fire for 'pretending driver crisis is all about Brexit' and ignoring the fact shortages have affected countries throughout the world

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...is-Brexit.html

Reality factcheck for everyone.

[Butler to Baby Sloths]

So Sky News is unaware of Berlin and using a not stupid measurement Paris and it seems Brexit as they still think London is part of the EU.

Yeah, that's a source I'd trust. Even better though, Istanbul and Moscow seem to just not light up on the radar despite depending on the same routes as every other city in Europe.

Doesn't Istanbul have like 15 million population? By that logic they shouldn't have any open supermarkets at all.

It's all going to be OK, the Home Office has greenlit 5000 overseas worker visas for HGV drivers and 5500 visas for poultry workers. They have to sod off back home on Christmas Eve though.

Only leaves what, 95000 HGV drivers that aren't moving stock and Christmas presents around the country?

[Huehuecoyotl]

Doesn't Istanbul have like 15 million population? By that logic they shouldn't have any open supermarkets at all.

It's all going to be OK, the Home Office has greenlit 5000 overseas worker visas for HGV drivers and 5500 visas for poultry workers. They have to sod off back home on Christmas Eve though.

You can bet the farmers are already putting pressure on to allow fruit pickers in. The same will then happen with service industry workers. We will end up with annual periods where we bring over as many EU workers as we can to address "temporary" shortfalls in workers.

This is what dribbles never understood. He thought we were expecting to reverse Brexit in one big chunk, a giant "back in" to reverse the sudden departure. But we never properly left (there are plenty of Brexit transition periods still in place) and Brexit is falling apart all on it's own. This is the start of a death by a thousand cuts for Brexit. Boris has accepted now that certain aspects of Brexit need to be reversed in certain circumstances. He's going to spend the rest of his time as PM trying to explain why it is necessary this time, and isn't for all the other industries negatively impacted by Brexit.

Brexit is effectively dead. It just hasn't stopped twitching yet. Give it a decade and we'll be back in the EU in all but name, and we can start asking why we shouldn't, you know, join. Since we'd get more benefits that way.

Farcical end to a ludicrous process.

[XDurionX]

The UK has just left the shithole, now sovereign it's not stuck in it anymore. Meanwhile back at the Brussels Broadcasting Corporation...

BBC comes under fire for 'pretending driver crisis is all about Brexit' and ignoring the fact shortages have affected countries throughout the world

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...is-Brexit.html

Reality factcheck for everyone.

Dailyfail, really? HAHAHAHAHAHA.

[Forogil]

So Sky News is unaware of Berlin and using a not stupid measurement Paris and it seems Brexit as they still think London is part of the EU.

And exaggerating the size of London as well, since it is below 10 million (in contrast to Paris metro area which is above 10 million).

However, if we use really-stupid-measurement-Paris (apart from the urban area around Paris with >10 millions, there's also Greater Paris with 7 million https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grand_Paris) we should clearly use the 'the City of London' for comparison; with about 9,000 inhabitants as 'Greater London' is not a city recognized by QE II.

As for Germany I would say the largest "city" is Ruhr-gebiet not Berlin, which also indicates that this entire idea of city-size being linked to truck driver shortages is ridiculous; as one could argue that you need more trucks to handle the same amount of persons outside of a city (since they are more spread out).

[handlup]

The UK has just left the shithole, now sovereign it's not stuck in it anymore. Meanwhile back at the Brussels Broadcasting Corporation...

BBC comes under fire for 'pretending driver crisis is all about Brexit' and ignoring the fact shortages have affected countries throughout the world



Reality factcheck for everyone.

As has been explained to you numerous times EU countries do not have gaps on shelves, which is all that matters here.

I don't recall the BBC even mentioning Brexit as a factor in this.

[Butler to Baby Sloths]

You can bet the farmers are already putting pressure on to allow fruit pickers in. The same will then happen with service industry workers. We will end up with annual periods where we bring over as many EU workers as we can to address "temporary" shortfalls in workers.

This is what dribbles never understood. He thought we were expecting to reverse Brexit in one big chunk, a giant "back in" to reverse the sudden departure. But we never properly left (there are plenty of Brexit transition periods still in place) and Brexit is falling apart all on it's own. This is the start of a death by a thousand cuts for Brexit. Boris has accepted now that certain aspects of Brexit need to be reversed in certain circumstances. He's going to spend the rest of his time as PM trying to explain why it is necessary this time, and isn't for all the other industries negatively impacted by Brexit.

Brexit is effectively dead. It just hasn't stopped twitching yet. Give it a decade and we'll be back in the EU in all but name, and we can start asking why we shouldn't, you know, join. Since we'd get more benefits that way.

Farcical end to a ludicrous process.

Yep.

It starts with temporary visas for HGV drivers and farm workers.
Then there'll be visas for hotel and restaurant staff.
Then every other industry will demand equal treatment.
These will become long-term work visas, and then full work permits.

A decade of salami tactics like this Home Office move will put the UK in the same position that Norway and Switzerland are in. And then they'll re-join, because they might as well be part of the decision-making process as be a passive rule-taker with no say that pays for the privilege. And people like Dribbles will be sitting in their pubs asking what the hell just happened.

[Korno8k]

Yep.

It starts with temporary visas for HGV drivers and farm workers.
Then there'll be visas for hotel and restaurant staff.
Then every other industry will demand equal treatment.
These will become long-term work visas, and then full work permits.

A decade of salami tactics like this Home Office move will put the UK in the same position that Norway and Switzerland are in. And then they'll re-join, because they might as well be part of the decision-making process as be a passive rule-taker with no say that pays for the privilege. And people like Dribbles will be sitting in their pubs asking what the hell just happened.

If Labour ever get back in power again, i think they'll definitely hold another referendum to rejoin the EU.

But the UK is basically a one party country at the moment.

Lib Dems were destroyed a decade ago, and Labour destroyed under Corbyn.

I think most people in the UK would prefer easily accessible VISA'S to open borders though. It will be perceived as a better form of border management.

Open borders, in my opinion, are literally the only reason Brexit won.

I don't know any leavers who wanted to economically leave the EU.

Everybody was basically happy with the trading bloc for the actual trading part.

I think the perception is open borders hit the working class really hard and drove salaries down.

I tend to agree with that, salaries haven't had a proper increase in the UK for well over a decade.

[Barzotti]

If Labour ever get back in power again, i think they'll definitely hold another referendum to rejoin the EU.

The point is, would the EU even want the UK back in the union? The UK has been a pain in the EU ass during fifty years, sabotaged the european construction and the UK government's attitude since the Brexit vote has been laughable at best. If the British say "I swear it will be different if you let us in this time", well, BoJo made it adamantly clear that he can't be trusted. The entire UK attitude since 1973 towards the EU shows that.

Why would the EU take back a country that shat on his floor during 50 years, wiped his ass on the curtains and made it clear that they were terrible partners? It's not like the EU countries are begging the British to come back. It's more "good riddance you assholes".

[Korno8k]

The point is, would the EU even want the UK back in the union? The UK has been a pain in the EU ass during fifty years, sabotaged the european construction and the UK government's attitude since the Brexit vote has been laughable at best. If the British say "I swear it will be different if you let us in this time", well, BoJo made it adamantly clear that he can't be trusted. The entire UK attitude since 1973 towards the EU shows that.

Why would the EU take back a country that shat on his floor during 50 years, wiped his ass on the curtains and made it clear that they were terrible partners? It's not like the EU countries are begging the British to come back. It's more "good riddance you assholes".

Money.

The UK was the 2nd biggest financial contributor to the whole EU project.

[Barzotti]

Money.

The UK was the 2nd biggest financial contributor to the whole EU project.

That's a good argument and the UK has been a net contributor to the EU budget (even though it was only 5th in contribution per capita). But it implies that:

- everything revolves around money, and the political EU project is beyond grocer calculations ala Thatcher;

- British people would be OK to pay again for an union they willingly quit partly because they considered they paid too much for the other countries;

- the EU negociators would be willing to deal with the UK bullshit and the unrealistic demands. Do the potnetial monetary gains exceed the hassle and the headache? The Brexit negotiations have been five years of nightmarish pain in the ass and Brexit isn't even done yet.

[MCMLXXXII]

Money.

The UK was the 2nd biggest financial contributor to the whole EU project.

Per capita they were fifth, the Netherlands is first.

[XDurionX]

Per capita they were fifth, the Netherlands is first.

6th even, 25% behind austria.

https://www.visualcapitalist.com/whi...the-eu-budget/

[Crispin]

The UK has just left the shithole, now sovereign it's not stuck in it anymore. Meanwhile back at the Brussels Broadcasting Corporation...

BBC comes under fire for 'pretending driver crisis is all about Brexit' and ignoring the fact shortages have affected countries throughout the world

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...is-Brexit.html

Reality factcheck for everyone.

There’s a vast difference on a shortage, and not being able to deliver groceries and fuel.

Is NI also short on food deliveries and fuel? It’s part of the UK, but within the single market. It’s rather amusing, to have a small part of the UK still in the single market for comparison. (Shit for your argument)

I work for an oil company, and have transport and logistics companies as clients. Some are short on 1-2 drivers, others arent. None are seeing the issues the UK has tho.

[Mihalik]

Open borders, in my opinion, are literally the only reason Brexit won.

"Open borders" was never actually a thing. But it's moot to relitigate delusions of 2016.

The reasons for Brexit were always rooted in lies and delusions of exceptionalism.

[jonnysensible]

uk has a shortage of 100-200k hgv drivers
it takes 4-6 months to train so the problem cant be solved before 2022
eu has a driver shortage too and offers better pay and conditions
JIT is fucked in the uk because of brexit

cant solve a structural problem by issuing a couple thousand poxy visas, its coal for xmas

[Butler to Baby Sloths]

uk has a shortage of 100-200k hgv drivers
it takes 4-6 months to train so the problem cant be solved before 2022
eu has a driver shortage too and offers better pay and conditions
JIT is fucked in the uk because of brexit

cant solve a structural problem by issuing a couple thousand poxy visas, its coal for xmas

Assuming the coal can be picked up from the harbour, of course.

[Machismo]

If Labour ever get back in power again, i think they'll definitely hold another referendum to rejoin the EU.

But the UK is basically a one party country at the moment.

Lib Dems were destroyed a decade ago, and Labour destroyed under Corbyn.

I think most people in the UK would prefer easily accessible VISA'S to open borders though. It will be perceived as a better form of border management.

Open borders, in my opinion, are literally the only reason Brexit won.

I don't know any leavers who wanted to economically leave the EU.

Everybody was basically happy with the trading bloc for the actual trading part.

I think the perception is open borders hit the working class really hard and drove salaries down.

I tend to agree with that, salaries haven't had a proper increase in the UK for well over a decade.

So, it's about racism and ethno-nationalism... got it.

[Veggie50]

If Labour ever get back in power again, i think they'll definitely hold another referendum to rejoin the EU.

But the UK is basically a one party country at the moment.

Lib Dems were destroyed a decade ago, and Labour destroyed under Corbyn.

I think most people in the UK would prefer easily accessible VISA'S to open borders though. It will be perceived as a better form of border management.

Open borders, in my opinion, are literally the only reason Brexit won.

I don't know any leavers who wanted to economically leave the EU.

Everybody was basically happy with the trading bloc for the actual trading part.

I think the perception is open borders hit the working class really hard and drove salaries down.

I tend to agree with that, salaries haven't had a proper increase in the UK for well over a decade.

The problem is, that the idea that the depressed UK salaries are a result of open borders is a right wing fabrication. Those workers are gone now, has your salary gone up?

The UK is notoriously bad at upward mobility in social classes. You even see this in your democracy (house of lords? Seriously?). The upper classes have a vested interest in keeping the working class down. Sadly, they succeeded in feeding a narrative that focusses the frustration of this to “them foreigners”. They never wanted brexit to win, they just wanted people to think they were fighting for it.