I remember, damn they used the Holy Light instead of Sun or Shadow magic.
Good ol' times.
I remember, damn they used the Holy Light instead of Sun or Shadow magic.
Good ol' times.
I'd like to see the Broken as a future allied race, they even have female brokens in Hearthstone
Last edited by Dark-Zarupia; 2021-09-26 at 05:34 PM.
I would really like to see broken or mogu added as a possible allied race
The race I would like to see as a completely new race is naga, but I know that will never happen
"Lol" said the scorpion, "lmao"
My original point is that Ogres already exist in the world, exist in the horde, and Blizzard has made the choice to do nothing with them. And in my opinion, that means Ogres sre unlikely.
We are not being introduced to new races through exploration, like Kul Tiran or Zandalari or Pandaren. Ogres are established.
We are not getting them out of convenience, like Dark Iron or Highmountain or any race that reused skeletons.
I use the latter points to reinforce my first statement, not as a means to say it is impossible.
I am saying if you want a house with 3 bathrooms and we're talking about a house that has only 2, then I'd say it's more logical to look for a new or different house. You could add another bathroom, but that's a lot of needless effort, and not a choice of convenience.
I clearly stated this os my opinion, so you saying 'it doesn't take more effort' is yours, and frankly I do not agree since we're not talking about this effort being applied to a new race, we're talking about Ogres.
And if you asked me why Blizzard wouldn't put more effort into making Ogres work? It goes to my original opinion that I do not think they aren't interested.
I understand you want to argue the point that they can be made, but I am being clear to you that I didn't say it they couldn't. I made points to reinforce my opinion that Blizzard has shown no interest, and all the extra steps beyond make even less sense since they require effort. Thus my comparison to NPCs. They COULD make harpies playable, but I do mot believe they have any intention to do so. Harpies don't have arms for weapons, they don't have male options, they aren't built to ride mounts, etc. Its more effort than its worth for a race that isn't even considered to be playable. Those are my points to reinforce the reason, and nothing being said about it being impossible.
Last edited by Triceron; 2021-09-26 at 08:25 PM.
all other races that are not playable yet, exist in the world, and blizzard has made the choice to do nothing with them, so, all of then are unlikely
this is just circular logic, just because they didn't, don't mean they are unlikely, they are done because a number of factors, just like others.
not an argument, the legion allied races were not trough exploration, hell, maghar were in the horde since the burning crusade, only now became playble from draenor.We are not being introduced to new races through exploration, like Kul Tiran or Zandalari or Pandaren. Ogres are established.
we may get, still is a possibilityWe are not getting them out of convenience, like Dark Iron or Highmountain or any race that reused skeletons.
if you already own the house with two bathrooms, it could be simple to just make a new one, instead of buy another house with threeI am saying if you want a house with 3 bathrooms and we're talking about a house that has only 2, then I'd say it's more logical to look for a new or different house. You could add another bathroom, but that's a lot of needless effort, and not a choice of convenience.
They already did that with rexxar model, edit his model to reflect more an ogre is just the logical option, instead of the options you gave.I clearly stated this os my opinion, so you saying 'it doesn't take more effort' is yours, and frankly I do not agree since we're not talking about this effort being applied to a new race, we're talking about Ogres.
yet, they were the only race, in this entire thread, that was considered to be playable, and almost made it, but they chose goblins because it amde mroe sense to tie then in the expansion.And if you asked me why Blizzard wouldn't put more effort into making Ogres work? It goes to my original opinion that I do not think they aren't interested.
this put then ahead of other races by a pretty good spot.
They not being interest for you isn't an reason of why blizzard din't amde then plaayble yet, as other races weren't, had nothing, but they became interesting after becoming playable.
cause what is interesting about a draenei race retconed out of nowhere? mindless werewolves not tied to anything? they amde then interestin tiying with the guilneans.
Ogres had a lot of lore explored in WoD, they are far from being uninteresting, which is funny since you consdiered the half-breeds when they are uninsteresting as a race can get, being a pointless, dead orcish clan.
.I understand you want to argue the point that they can be made, but I am being clear to you that I didn't say it they couldn't. I made points to reinforce my opinion that Blizzard has shown no interest, and all the extra steps beyond make even less sense since they require effort
and i telling you, blizzard did show interest as they were considered to be playable in cataclysm
and no other race suggest here showed any hints of "interest from blizzard to be amde playable", is a point that is not relevant when everyone is in the same position or worse.
Yes. So you do understand.
Kul Tiran did not 'exist in the world', and they put effort into creating a new skeleton and look for them. The story also ties greatly to a location we're exploring that justifies their addition to the Alliance. It's all integrated reasons - Blizzard HAS an interest in adding them as their own race, to explore their continent, and thus have all the reason to pursue giving them full attention as a new race with new looks and new racials that distinctly differs from Humans. And they could have taken the 'easy route' of just making another brand of Human, but they chose to emphasize something new because that was the core feature of BFA - Kul Tiras and Zandalar.Where is the problem of "more effort to adapt al gear options"? is that rly a thing? they create kul'tiran from nothing, this mean it was not much fo an effort and they are willingly to do create the whole thing when adding a new race.
Where does this exist for Ogres moving forward? We're going to get some new Ogre Island in Azeroth we haven't discovered before? Or Ogres will be key to defeating the Void Lords? I don't see that happening the way Kul Tiras and Zandalar were both known and expected locations to be explored 'in the future'. Ogres simply don't have that benefit at all, and would be a very awkward race to promote as a new playable race on its own.
If Blizzard really wanted Ogres to be Allied Race ala Kul Tiran skeleton, then they could have just as easily designed the Kul Tiran to look more like Ogres or something instead. Clearly that's not what happened. Mok'nathal was what Blizzard equated the proportions to instead, through Rexxar.
We don't already have playable Ogres, so we're not talking about about already owning a house with 2 bathrooms.if you already own the house with two bathrooms, it could be simple to just make a new one, instead of buy another house with three
The comparison is in assessing what would be considered as a new race, and addressing that Ogres don't exactly fit the criteria in... practically all fronts. There is no female gender, they require a new rig, there is no real location for us to explore that will suddenly reveal playable Ogres, there is no future potential in exploring such a location or a venue for them to be added, and overall the demand for Ogres overall is quite low.
Again, I ask you personally - would you demand for an Ogre above all other Race choices if it came down to choosing one for the next Horde race?
Chris Metzen has stated in an interview that he would like ogres to be playable one day along with naga and goblins (the latter of which became a playable race in Cataclysm).[100] During an interview in 2012 the developers stated that "We considered them for Cataclysm instead of goblins. Figuring out the females and the two-headed mages would be (fun!) challenges. Maybe someday."and i telling you, blizzard did show interest as they were considered to be playable in cataclysm
And there are absolutely challenges in the way while nothing has progressed. My regard is that overall there is no interest in having them playable for the very reasons cited here and beyond; we already have them part of the Horde and they were passed up time and time again. If it were a simple case of Kul Tiran skeleton modification, then my question to you is why are Ogres not already an Allied Race?
Again, my reasoning is very clear. That you disagree is simply your prerogative, not that I am wrong in any capacity. As I've said clearly though, there really isn't, and the past 20+ years has not helped Ogres become playable in any considerable fashion. That you're pointing out they had interests in Cataclysm also comes with the problems associated with that consideration. It's not some bubble we're talking about where as soon as they have interest, all efforts to make them playable become effortless. Again above, if making a female gender, adapting the skeleton and all that jazz was so easily doable, then by all means there's no reason why we shouldn't already have Ogres.
And the reason is simple - no interest in doing so.
Even Naga and Ethereals have more clout because there is a much more open place in lore for exploration of locations and storylines that could integrate them as future playable races. Azshara is still out there, and there are still Naga-related locations left to explore. Ethereals have a full connection to the Void and K'aresh, two things we're still actively exploring. There is reason for Alliance and Horde to explore them as potential allies in the future to come.
Where do Ogres fit into this? They already missed the boat with BFA's allied races.
I literally showed you what that looks like. What's your opinion, does it look good to you? Does it work?They already did that with rexxar model, edit his model to reflect more an ogre is just the logical option, instead of the options you gave.
If you are going to make blanket statements about it being adaptable, then it's on you to present a case where it actually works. I showed you exactly why it doesn't work, so really where do you sit here? Just saying it works and is effortless and expect me to suddenly be convinced because you kept saying it? Offer me something to consider here other than conjecture, otherwise I have no greater opinion of your argument. It's all ignorance to the examples I've provided you of a modified Ogre using Kul Tiran skeleton.
Last edited by Triceron; 2021-09-27 at 12:42 AM.
From the undersea quest "Blade if the Nazjatar" a Nazjar Battle Maiden;
Ethereals are intriguing;
what i don't udnerstand is how youa re trying to put ogres down other races, when theya re actually above in terms of "chances of being playable"
exactly, so again,y our point holds no ground.Kul Tiran did not 'exist in the world',
we don't need a race to be important before being playable.
and its just nonsensical that you think they can't do that with other races, what if the new expansion is about world revamp? they have all the possibilities to make a ton of races of the "old world" playable, as you update the world and the zones they are in.and they put effort into creating a new skeleton and look for them. The story also ties greatly to a location we're exploring that justifies their addition to the Alliance. It's all integrated reasons - Blizzard HAS an interest in adding them as their own race, to explore their continent, and thus have all the reason to pursue giving them full attention as a new race with new looks and new racials that distinctly differs from Humans.
Maybe? it is a possibilityWhere does this exist for Ogres moving forward? We're going to get some new Ogre Island in Azeroth we haven't discovered before?
what race was the key to defeat voidlords? are you implying the races we got in bfa were key to the shadowlands? you are making no sense here.Or Ogres will be key to defeating the Void Lords? I don't see that happening the way Kul Tiras and Zandalar were both known and expected locations to be explored 'in the future'. Ogres simply don't have that benefit at all, and would be a very awkward race to promote as a new playable race on its own.
you keep saying "ogres don't have" but no other races listed here does
Youa re using circular logic to proof a point "how they can be plaayble like kul'tirna and zandalari when we explored their homes?" if we didn't explore that they would not be playble, they woud not even exist.
that makes even less sense, another fallacy of circular logic.If Blizzard really wanted Ogres to be Allied Race ala Kul Tiran skeleton, then they could have just as easily designed the Kul Tiran to look more like Ogres or something instead. Clearly that's not what happened. Mok'nathal was what Blizzard equated the proportions to instead, through Rexxar.
Rexxar model is an gore without a horn or a belly
we already have then in the game, with established lore, leader and clansWe don't already have playable Ogres, so we're not talking about about already owning a house with 2 bathrooms.
they clearly have more bagage than any other race listed here to be playable.
And.. that is simple not true.The comparison is in assessing what would be considered as a new race, and addressing that Ogres don't exactly fit the criteria in... practically all fronts.
That is an non argument, as we didn't had for draeneis, worgens and others.There is no female gender, they require a new rig,
there is nothing like that for other races as well.there is no real location for us to explore that will suddenly reveal playable Ogres,
Those things are created when they ebcame playable, or when thy will, not before
demand of gores is low? the msot requested race for horde by a mile?there is no future potential in exploring such a location or a venue for them to be added, and overall the demand for Ogres overall is quite low.
????Again, I ask you personally - would you demand for an Ogre above all other Race choices if it came down to choosing one for the next Horde race?
Just because not had progressed yet, does not mean there will not be, they are more likely than nagas and other racesAnd there are absolutely challenges in the way while nothing has progressed.
youa re wrong by giving incorrect or fallacious reasons to support a point that make no sense, that other races are more likely. Because your "terms" and "points" are only used on ogres and ignored for other races.Again, my reasoning is very clear. That you disagree is simply your prerogative, not that I am wrong in any capacity.
again, by this reason, that would mean they have no interest in doing any other race listed in this topic, whith is a null point as all the races ar eon the same boatAnd the reason is simple - no interest in doing so.
Totally bullshit they have, this is so mcuh biased that i don't evne know how to beging.Even Naga and Ethereals have more clout because there is a much more open place in lore for exploration of locations and storylines that could integrate them as future playable races.
Let alone how nagas don't have freaking legs, being way worse of a ngihtamre to work in a model than simple edit rexxar model, and etherals that are a damn energy in abdages whow ere replaces in the anrrative by the brokers, if yout hink they will have relevance again, more than other races, is hilarious.
just because youd on't see does not mean its not there.Where do Ogres fit into this? They already missed the boat with BFA's allied races.
nope, you didn't, the iamge is totally misleadingI literally showed you what that looks like. What's your opinion, does it look good to you? Does it work?
by your own nonsense logical Rexxar would be like an kul'tiran, but he isn't, they can do the same with ogres without just taking the kul'tiran body and putting an ogre face.
are you even trying to have a serious conversation? they literally made rexxar model based on the kul'tiran and they do not look nothing alike, nothing like the images you put here, why do you think they can take rexxar model and put a belly and a horn? why do you think they have to just take the kul'tiran model and put an ogre face or a lame ass edditing?If you are going to make blanket statements about it being adaptable, then it's on you to present a case where it actually works. I showed you exactly why it doesn't work, so really where do you sit here? Just saying it works and is effortless and expect me to suddenly be convinced because you kept saying it? Offer me something to consider here other than conjecture, otherwise I have no greater opinion of your argument. It's all ignorance to the examples I've provided you of a modified Ogre using Kul Tiran skeleton.
What makes their chances higher?
Honest question. Do you think they should even be playable?
I've never said it was going to be impossible for them to play. I've always been regarding that Blizzard has shown zero intention of doing so, and supported my opinion with examples of how they would require more effort than I think is worth.
It's absolutely an argument. Draenei, Worgen and others were new races, not established since Warcraft 1. They had the benefit of having full new lore and design flexible enough to establish them completely.That is an non argument, as we didn't had for draeneis, worgens and others.
Ogres on the other hand are already fairly well established, and not having females has been mentioned as being a challenge.
Last edited by Triceron; 2021-09-27 at 04:34 AM.
well yeah, I mean; with the Alliance getting 99% blood elves - I demand the Horde gets something for that
blood elf skeleton and purple skin and non-natural hair would counterpart the nightborne's different night elf skeleton and purple skin
blood elf skeleton and natural skin and natural hair should counterpart living human concept for the Horde
the Alliance got the Horde's most popular race; the Horde should get the Alliance's most popular race in return
The Alliance gets the Horde's most popular race. The Horde should get the Alliance's most popular race in return. Alteraci Humans for the Horde!
I make Warcraft 3 Reforged HD custom models and I'm also an HD model reviewer.
and it will not be humans
stop trying to ruin my faction even more
- - - Updated - - -
- fanfavorite
- Already established lore
- Interesting and unique lore
- unique and interesting thematic(check draenor to see the gorian empire)
- lore tied with the horde and horde races
- two clans already part of the horde making the playable thing easier and a n-brainer
so on.
of course? is this even a question?Honest question. Do you think they should even be playable?
the point is, "blizzard showing no interest in doing so" count for every race in this thread, this is again, circular logic.I've never said it was going to be impossible for them to play. I've always been regarding that Blizzard has shown zero intention of doing so, and supported my opinion with examples of how they would require more effort than I think is worth.
And it is, simple not truth that they would require more effort, this is a blatantly lie, as they require less effort that nagas and etherals that you mentioned early
worgen existed in wtlk and Draeneis existed since w3, they had nothing, and yet when they ebcame playable, they had all those things, this is exactly how things work, they do not have before, but afterIt's absolutely an argument. Draenei, Worgen and others were new races, not established since Warcraft 1. They had the benefit of having full new lore and design flexible enough to establish them completely.
Ogre haves design flexibility and enough lore to fully adapt into a new expansion.
being a fun challenge*Ogres on the other hand are already fairly well established, and not having females has been mentioned as being a challenge.
but if you think it is easier to make a werewolf girl furry than an female ogre, when we already have an example of how they look like with canon sourcers, that is completely on you.
you are also being completely limited but what we current have on lore, and do not realize we didn't had much shit about the races before, they become playable, its done later. With ogres yes, we still have new things that we could explore, ogre continent, world revamp where they live, Draenor bs, yrel coming back and the ogres that ame with the maghar, so on so on
Thus, my opinion.
Again, that is all you are arguing against.
Neither a wolfgirl or an ogre female is easy to do. They are both challenges. What necessitated wolfgirls? The only reason is tying in Gilneans as a playable race. And that was accomplished at a time when models were much lower quality, while they were _the last race_ to get their HD update, getting pushed well into BFA. Pandaren and WoD upped the standard, and that makes adding new races as a whole package require more effort than say adding a new race in Vanilla, where animations didn't require more complex facial anims and finger movement.
I don't think they will put that effort into Ogres, and I am blatantly stating this as my opinion. They have chosen not to on multiple occasions. Explore Ogre females? Could have done this in WoD, and didn't. Fit the Kul Tiran rig? They could have modified Kul Tiran proportions to better fit Ogres, and didn't. Have further interest in making em playable? Metzen's gone, so who else on the team is vetting their addition? Danuser and Golden?
And just saying 'others are in the same boat' doesn't change the fact it takes a lot of work to make a new race, and if they're going to go out of their way to adapt an NPC into a playable form then it's gonna be a lot of deliberation and iteration involved. And as I said, with Metzen gone, I don't see anyone else really pushing for Ogres any more. They haven't done much with em since Metzen left.
Both race designs were completely unseen and new. I'm not talking about them being new in the lore.worgen existed in wtlk and Draeneis existed since w3, they had nothing, and yet when they ebcame playable, they had all those things, this is exactly how things work, they do not have before, but after
The new Draenei design we had were not any of the Draenei we saw in WC3; they were effectively different and unseen. Sure, they based it off of Eredar, but otherwise the concept was flexible to whatever they chose it to be, thus freedom to explore a completely new design. Worgen are the same - it's a what-if Gilneans were afflicted by the curse situation; and clearly they have different models and looks to the classic Worgen NPCs that STILL EXIST today. These are different DESIGNS of races that were effectively NEW because we had never directly interacted with them. We interacted with NPC Worgen - but those are not the PLAYABLE variety. Same with Draenei, we saw em in WC3, but they are not the PLAYABLE variety.
Ogres are a different story. We have very well established Ogres. We've explored an entire empire of em and they got an HD model upgrade to boot. The same Ogres are already allied under the Horde. There's little case where we'll suddenly see a vastly different design for playable Ogres than what we're expecting. If you're suggesting that we're going to have the same Draenei or Worgen situation where we have a faction of Ogres with a new design that we've never interacted with before, then I'm going to say I disagree with your suggestion as a matter of opinion. I don't think the situation is the same because Draenei and Worgen were not established 'fan favourites', while your argument that Ogres are would suggest that they shouldn't get a major design change at all and rather have a visual representation that fits their look.
And yet no Ogres even though you think it would have been easy to add through Kul Tiran rig. If it were a case of it being a no brainer Allied Race addition with clear and easy rework of Kul Tiran skeleton, then by all means we should have em already. No reason to not add the race they considered back in Cata when they added a new race that shares their body type right?fanfavorite
- Already established lore
- Interesting and unique lore
- unique and interesting thematic(check draenor to see the gorian empire)
- lore tied with the horde and horde races
- two clans already part of the horde making the playable thing easier and a n-brainer
My point is - I don't think their chances are higher at all. I think they are the same as any other race. And having been considered doesn't increase that chance any more than we could say Runemaster still has higher chance because it was already being considered to be playable twice. We also have to regard it was passed up twice as well. I'd say even more than twice, since even WoD had the opportunity to add new races and opted not to.
If you're looking for validation on your own opinion, then I recognize your point of view, and validate that it can absolutely happen given that Blizzard decides to put effort into making it happen. And that is where I respectfully disagree with it happening, since I don't see Blizzard indicating any reason to put effort into it.
Last edited by Triceron; 2021-09-27 at 06:08 PM.
nah, this is beyond opinions as you said "facts" "truth" and other things though all your argument, you said other races are more likely for X, Y, Z reasons, and, that is not the truth, if you think they are less likely, because you don't like then, you think others are better, that is other subjective.
the source of the problem her eis that you are using double standad, not realizing everything you said about ogres are used for other races, and even worse.
And they can do the same with ogres, it would be even easier to create a female ogre using female kul'tiran or a female orc as base.Neither a wolfgirl or an ogre female is easy to do. They are both challenges. What necessitated wolfgirls? The only reason is tying in Gilneans as a playable race.
and i keep telling you this is a circular logic fallacy, they have chosen not to do all those things to all of the races listed here, why it is a problem only for ogres?I don't think they will put that effort into Ogres, and I am blatantly stating this as my opinion. They have chosen not to on multiple occasions.
and blizzard had chosen to not do nothing with then for eyars, until they decided to do so, see how this argument holds no ground?Both race designs were completely unseen and new.
and you are saying they can't do that again, with other races - specifically ogres -, even when we ahve examples of they doing across wow history, checkThe new Draenei we had were not any of the Draenei we saw in WC3; they were effectively different and unseen. Sure, they based it off of Eredar, but otherwise the concept was flexible to whatever they chose it to be, thus freedom to explore a completely new design. Worgen are the same - it's a what-if Gilneans were afflicted by the curse situation; and clearly they have different models and looks to the classic Worgen NPCs that STILL EXIST today.
its the same history, we already ahve established angas, and you keep saying they are more likely, despite they being a huge nightmare of models to adapt to be playable.Ogres are a different story. We have very well established Ogres. We've explored an entire empire of em and they got an HD model upgrade to boot. The same Ogres are already allied under the Horde. There's little case where we'll suddenly see a vastly different design for playable Ogres than what we're expecting.
we had a model for nightborne in legion, and they got updated to be playable, wod is six years old, cataclysm is even older, its nonsensical to think they can't revisit and edit their models to be playable, but they can do with others, like i said, dobuel standard.
And yet, no angas or etherals, even though you think they are more likelyAnd yet no Ogres even though you think it would have been easy to add through Kul Tiran rig.
again, this is circular logic fallacy
you said they are less likely than other races like nagas and etherals, uxing X, Y arguments, not realizing those arguments are aplied to nagas and etherals as well.My point is - I don't think their chances are higher at all. I think they are the same as any other race.
the thing is, ogres have more chances of being playable by the reasons i said and because they were already considered, they not being playable yet don't mean they are less likely than others.
and, where is the indication of any reasons to put effort in other races? that is subjective as hell and far from the truth.And that is where I respectfully disagree with it happening, since I don't see Blizzard indicating any reason to put effort into it.
Yes. Nothing indicating it would be easy either way.
And what of it if I think Naga and Ethereals are more likely? You think this is fact or opinion?
I never said those arguments didn't apply to Naga or Ethereals though, did I?you said they are less likely than other races like nagas and etherals, uxing X, Y arguments, not realizing those arguments are aplied to nagas and etherals as well.
I think a whole new race we haven't seen would be a better option for them, since it doesn't carry any of the baggage that existing ones do. But again, that'd be my opinion on things, since Blizzard can do whatever they want with the game they make. There's nothing about what I'm saying that is wrong, all you're pointing out is that you disagree with my opinion.
And frankly, there is no need for me to explain any reasons further, since you're obviously unable to discern opinion from 'fact'. I never claimed that Naga or Ethereals would be a perfect solution, I simply mentioned that I think they would be likelier than Ogres because at the very least they have future potential where I do not see Ogres having. Ogres simply have a 'Well it's possible' factor to them, while I regard Ethereals and Naga having a stronger future narrative tie in with Azshara still around, and K'aresh still open to explore. These are not *facts*, these are *opinions*, and ones which you have not discredited whatsoever. That you choose to hold a different opinion does not make it any less valid as a reason for me to value them higher than Ogres in regards to how I think Blizzard regards these races. I never said either of these would be likely to be playable either.
Thus my opinion? Reasons for my opinion are not facts and truth.and, where is the indication of any reasons to put effort in other races? that is subjective as hell and far from the truth.
If you want the truth, there's only one truth - Blizzard will do whatever the fuck they want and no one knows what the fuck they will do. There is no truth beyond that, and I have never said anything beyond that as being a fact or a truth. I've only pointed out that effort is required and I don't think Blizzard considers Ogres are worth that effort. That you disagree is fine, but you're really pushing it by assuming anything I'm saying here is a 'fact and truth'. Take a look at our entire conversation and point out one instance where I claimed anything I said regarding Ogres not being playable as fact or truth. You're absolutely projecting, and I'm calling you out for making these assumptions.
I honestly do not know what else to say that would placate you in this regard, since it seems I'm not even allowed to express an opinion without being harassed by your misinterpretation of it as 'facts and truth'. If I said this "I don't like this pizza because it's too salty", you're basically telling me "It's not too salty because there are other foods that are saltier. Circular logic!!!!". Saying the pizza is too salty is not a 'fact or truth', it's an opinion. You'd do well to recognize it.
You do realize that if I have an opinion and I back it up with reasons, using reasons doesn't magically make it factual, right? You can simply choose to disagree and move on.
Last edited by Triceron; 2021-09-27 at 07:01 PM.
my problems is the double standard arguments.
pretty sure you did, by saying they are more likely because X,, even when they are bound by the same rules as X is for every other race listed hereI never said those arguments didn't apply to Naga or Ethereals though, did I?
.
it stop from being an opinion when you say nagas are more likely because unlike ogres, ''they are yellow''And frankly, there is no need for me to explain any reasons further, since you're obviously unable to discern opinion from 'fact'. I never claimed that Naga or Ethereals would be a perfect solution, I simply mentioned that I think they would be likelier than Ogres because at the very least they have future potential where I do not see Ogres having.
this is the level of arguments we are dealing with it.
all right, you played the victim card.
I honestly do not know what else to say that would placate you in this regard, since it seems I'm not even allowed to express an opinion without being harassed by your misinterpretation of it as 'facts and truth'. If I said this "I don't like this pizza because it's too salty", you're basically telling me "It's not too salty because there are other foods that are saltier. Circular logic!!!!". Saying the pizza is too salty is not a 'fact or truth', it's an opinion. You'd do well to recognize it.
.
saying ""blizzard didn't considered ogres as playable" why? because they are not playable!"" is pure circular logic and it counts for every race not playable, obviously, make no sense to use on ogres like they are the only ones.
Don't be obtuse.
That example you gave? It's still an opinion and not a fact or truth. It hasn't stopped being an opinion if expressed as such.
It's clear to me that you are only interested in bad faith arguments to push their own opinion. Nothing you've brought up is a clear example of anything said. I even clarified my statements as opinion and you refused to acknowledge that, so really what are you arguing here? Your own twisted examples of things I didn't say. You're generalizing arguments with your own interpretation and somehow blaming me for arguments I never made. You have no intention of respecting my opinion.saying ""blizzard didn't considered ogres as playable" why? because they are not playable!"" is pure circular logic and it counts for every race not playable, obviously, make no sense to use on ogres like they are the only ones.
Please stop replying me, I'm sick of these bad faith arguments. You've been warned.
Last edited by Triceron; 2021-09-28 at 04:51 AM.
I would have made the Arakkoas join the Alliance and the Ogres rejoin the Horde a long time ago, with the Arakkoas leaving the dying Outland to find a new home and future in Azeroth with the help of the Draenei and Avianna, while the Horde would want to reunite and unify as many ogre clans as possible under a single leader.
Vrykul are quite likely, since Kyrian use their female skeleton.
Mogu are likely as well, since the Rajani joined our cause in 8.3.
Burly Night elves?
Very unlikely, since they were added as customization options.Wildhammer Dwarf. Should be obvious they should be their own race.
Pretty likely, since they are missing from the customization options.Amani Troll. Obvious again.
I don't think Blizzards does half races. Though, full-on Ogres using the Kul Tiran skeleton are very likely.Mok'nathal, possibly based on Kul Tiran.
Beats the purpose of a new race. You are more likely to get humanoid drakonids, like Dragonmen.Dragonsworn. Dragon race that takes the form of any Humanoid, with a Racial to turn into Dragon as an OoC mount form.
They would most likely be based on the Argus variation.Broken Draenei, though I'm not sure what inverse-leg options would work. Maybe we need a new Horde race to match it up.
This is a monster game, not FFXIV. plus:
Forest Trolls didn't become a customization option for Trolls.burly night elf would be akin to make a burly troll, like the ones we had in wc3, like the amani, it would be more of a customization thing than their own race..
That's just adding another Orc race.Always though dragonmaw orcs should be the drakonid/dragonsworn race, as they are already affected by dragon magic anyway, and the outland clan can literally turn themselves into drakonids already.
It is more likely, and highly better, to add a humanoid draconic race.
Yes, it does.
We helped their covenants. We gained reputation with them. Just like Allied races.
More likely to get a full-on Ogre, instead.
I think they are more likely to belong to Alterac, for some reason. As for their alignment, i feel that in the end, they would still ally with the Alliance. They could make both genders based on the female Forsaken, like how Sylvar and Kyrian genders are both based on female skeletons (Vrykul and Draenei).
Saberon are more likely to join the Horde, as they have a tribal society.For the Alliance, I'd like to see saberon so we have a second use of the worgen skeleton. Only the Alliance saberon will be lions with customizable manes for the males that fit well with Alliance symbolism using lions. They should also have paladins for that full lion king vibe.
With these two, each of the core races will have an allied race finally.
Naga don't have legs and Centaurs are four-legged. As much as i want them, it is more than just the lack of pants.
They wouldn't be bigger than a Kul Tiran (or Rexxar).
We're probably getting Sylvar instead.
They are what?
It doesn't work that way.they could totally get the thin human customization though.
That is debatable.
For once, if the Argus Krokul joins us, then they might go Horde since they resent Velen and the Draenei.
Secondly, even though Alterac betrayed the Alliance in the second war, they might still go to the Alliance (like how Gilneans did).
Well... they do share a lot of traits with the Dwarves, though.
Why would Vrykul use Tauren rig? they already have their own.
You know, Saberon aren't just lions. They are also Tigers, Panthers and Snow Leopards.
We're probably getting the Gladiators.
They are probably going with Sylvar.
There would be gender problems, i believe.
The Mogu were ancient allies of the Zandalari and resemble Orcs in their culture. I believe they are more Horde than Alliance.
They are big and fat so that Blizzards could reuse their skeleton for other big fat races, like the Ogres and Maldraxxi Gladiators.
They are not the Drust. Vrykul are Drust. Kul Tirans are former Gilneans.
Oh, come on... they taught them Druidism, not banged them.the lore precisely says the drust of old joined kul'tiran society, isn't rocket science to know what happened after that.
And it's not farfetched, either:
There are Drust. Ulfar. The other ones joined Gorak Tul. They were wiped out by the Kul Tirans. Their spirits are in Thros.
How do they look exactly like them? have you seen a Drust?they never said cooperation, they said, they joined their society, and since there is no more drusts, only humans that look exactly like then, even in size, again, not rocket science to know what happened.
There's no need for explanation.
In the real world, Papua new-gineans are pigmy Humans while scandinavian are usually very tall. It's a biological adaptation.
Not even close.
Kul Tirans aren't Vrykul, if that's what you're implying.
It's a biological mutation, just like you have different-sized humans in real life. We didn't mate with other creatures, we adapted to different environments.if the kul'tiran being huge is just because "they have vrykul ancestry" then all other humans populations would spawn huge humans, and they would reflect more the vrykul than the drust themselves, who are, apparently, fat.
the only population that sprout huge humans are the kul'tiran, and their differential is that the drust joined their society, not difficulty to know what happened there to cause this weird breed of humans to spawn.
How would you explain thin Kul Tirans? they mated with a skeleton?
You need glasses, man:
*facepalm*they being resistant to cold and having more versatility/resistance is literally a call out to the vrykul, lol and their affinity with the drust magic allowing then to be druids like the drust of old.
but sure, just sailor types, they inherently have cold resistance and more versatility than other people
Cold and nature resistance. Rime of the Ancient Mariner is a reference to the 1798 poem of the same name by Samuel Taylor Coleridge. It's attributed to their seafaring culture.
Their Brush off trait comes from their stature.
And the Druidic connection is just one of many. Not even the most prominent of their culture, which is all about seafaring.
Yes, to ally with them and teach them druidism.
They don't have the same face. What are you talking about.well, that is your own problem i guess? cause their face is a vrykul face and we all know drust=vrykul
Then we'd have Blood elven Orcs because they joined the Horde and were only 10% of their original population.This is what happens when a small group join a bigger one, they don't die out unless they mix themselves with the big group.
They would look a lot different. Height wouldn't be the only trait passed.Even by having drust blood they would still be human, like green orcs being mutated by green magic are still orcs
I wouldn't say clearly.
Their fat heads, maybe.
They are not giants:if it is giant like a vrykul, resistant to cold and more versatility like then, well...
https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Giant
Dwarves also have cold resistance. Would you say they are dwarves?
Also, there are Vrykul from Stormheim and not Northrend.
They didn't kill anything. It's just your distorted take on it. You see big humans and you automatically categorize them as the Vrykul race. On the contrary, with Kyrian being based on female Vrykul skeleton, they are even more likely.
So, only Vrykul can have resilience? weird, because Highmountain Tauren also have such trait. It's almost like it comes from their large structure.they can name whatever they want, but it their resilience is clearly something vrykul related, as they, mind you, are the original viking seafaring race.
Seafaring is not only a Vrykul trait. It is also a Zandalari trait.
If you believe we got to play as Vikings with Kul Tirans, you are sorely mistaken.
Could be, as the Maldraxxian Gladiators do just that (just with a different posture).
Kul Tiran. Which, would most likely be applied to Ogres.
They could be Kul Tiran/Rexxar size.
What are you talking about? Stonemaul Ogres joined the Horde alongside the Mag'har from AU, in BfA.
You mean, Forest/Frost Trolls.As an off-kilter suggestion, I was thinking of a Primal/Berserker Troll based on Worgen as an option. Legs might need to be tweaked, but otherwise use the same basic lumbering look. The Troll would be an more primitive, wilder variation of troll, like a middle step towards being Dire Trolls.
Of course, whether anyone would even choose to play as this is another question.
Maybe because they're both Human-like? Where are the braided beards? where is the long hair? where are the tattoos? You can't just say "Oh, Kul Tirans are Vrykul because they're big and tall humans." Different people and culture, altogether.
What the hell are you talking about? Ogres have been a part of almost all of the Horde's variations. They are more relevant than any race out there.
a female Saberon:
It's not going to happen because, otherwise, these races would be able to be all classes.
Stonemaul Ogres from AU, alongside the Mag'har, joining the Horde in BfA:
Rexxar using Kul Tiran as a skeleton:Ogres aren't an easy addition like an Allied Race, so suggesting the bar is lower doesn't work in their favour; Ogres need a lot of dedication to be added and that includes adapting their skeleton system or making a new one that fits for all gear models, designing a female gender that doesn't exist, and having them generally be relevant in the future story as a markettable expansion feature.
Maldraxxus Gladiator using the Female Kul Tiran rig and an Ogre with a different posture rig:
Kul Tiran are a whole new skeleton rig, made for big races like the Ogre.
They wouldn't need anything in particular, since the Kul Tiran skeleton can already be applied to them, or that of the Maldraxxian Gladiators.
Zandalari males use Night elf skeleton.
Ogres would, either, completely use Kul Tiran skeletons or a mix of that and a modified Ogre skeleton (like Maldraxxus Gladiators).Mok'nathal would make sense as an AR as they would ostensibly reuse the KulTiran rigging -as Rexxar does- but ogres? They are both a new race and would have a new rigging/model and wouldn't fit with any of the criteria AR's have.
Mok'nathal are a half-race. Blizzard only introduced those in customization options. Not to mention their dwindling numbers.
Ogres would most likely use the Kul Tiran skeleton, or their own skeleton (just like the Maldraxxus Gladiators use).
We have Goblins -_-
Venthyr are more likely and Wildhammers are already a customization option.Other than that, San'layn... and uh... idk wildhammer dwarves?
How are alterac humans a joke when we have Stormwind Humans, Gilnean Humans and Kul Tiran humans? and a thin Human model.
Calia and Derek already joined the Horde.
Why do you think Blizzard has added the Kul Tiran skeleton to the game while all other are reused ones? to introduce large races like the Ogre.
It wasn't updated. Just their textures.Why do I say this? Because we literally do have a separate Ogre rig that already exists in the game, and has even been updated in WoD alongside many others.
Rexxar - a Kul Tiran skeleton with Ogre features:
There are significant proportion differences, from considering the placement of the leg sockets at the hip, the shoulder placement, the size of the hands, length of the legs, the size of the head in relation to the body, etc. And you can see in this picture what an Ogre would look like if adapted to the Kul Tiran skeleton - to me it looks off and not very Ogre-like at all, even if you added some body and leg fat to them. The skeleton proportions aren't ideal for Ogres.
See how it doesn't have to look like a Kul Tiran?
The examples you gave are simply bad. They took the Kul Tiran model and added horns onto it. It doesn't, necessarily, mean it would look like that. The rig doesn't determine how the model would look.
Because that's exactly what it is. A miserable attempt at comparing Ogres with Kul Tirans. That's not how it would look like.Even with this attempt, it doesn't scream 'Ogre' to me. It's a very nice attempt, but it still looks like a Kul Tiran with a headswap even with proportion adaptations in play. For me, the head size and leg length is what kills it, since Ogres have shorter legs and bigger abdominal/waist lines, making them relatively Gorilla-like in proportions.
Why do you think they gave Rexxar a Kul Tiran skeleton? to show how Ogres are able to become playable.
Why did they give him an Ogre face when he's always wearing a mask? a blueprint for playable Ogres.
They already use Worgen skeleton (female).
Already possible.
Ethereals would probably be added (using the Broker animation rig). As for their faces, i guess they could have different masks?I especially don't want:
- Etehrial (no facial expressions, how would you customize them?)
- Everything that differs too much from humanoid postures / bodies or are hard too equip, because of their body features (like Centaurs, Sethrak, Arrakoa, Hozen)
As for Sethrak, they are pretty much on a playable character standard.
They would be a separate allied race.Also please allow Kul'Tiran to have thinner / agile bodies.
They, literally, wanted to add them during Vanilla and Cataclysm.
Definitely.
They deserve it more than any other. Followed only by Forest Trolls.
They don't have to fit the story. Almost all of the allied races didn't. They were just there to add on manpower.Where do Ogres fit into this? They already missed the boat with BFA's allied races.
And if you think allied races are over and done with, you are wrong.
Naga cannot be made playable with their current model. Unless they use the Sethrak skeleton, which has legs.
One could claim that playable Naga sailed away with 8.2.
Last edited by username993720; 2021-09-28 at 02:43 PM.