Do you think Alleria, Vereesa and elves like Valeera are traitors to Quel'Thalas?

[Thage]

to be fair Lor'themar didn't permanently kicked Umbric and his comrades off like some criminals shipped to Guam/Australia; he just put them a restraining order of like 20 kilometers away from the Sunwell

IIRC Umbric and his followers were chased out and exiled because they repeatedly ignored orders from Rommath to abandon their research into the Void (fair enough, it's a dangerous force and they were in a rough place where that could have rapidly spiraled out of control in the worst way, just like it did in Telogrus). Once you're given the boot like that the country that kicked you out more or less loses their claim on your allegiance if you then go off and do something else.

Considering Umbric's whole thing was researching the Void as an alternative solution to overcome their mana addiction, this places it fairly safely in the BC timeline pre-2.4, so the blood elves are still trying to pull themselves together. We don't have enough to know where in that time frame it occurs, but it's safe to say (since In The Shadow of the Sun is also canon) the blood elves' and Forsaken hold on the Ghostlands is pretty tenuous, meaning Umbric and co. could take exile/refuge there with reasonable expectations they won't get any aid from the capital nor bother the blood elves' affairs and in turn be left alone to their research, as it wouldn't be worth the manpower or resources to chase them further south to the Plaguelands.

This is one of those situations where Lor'themar calling them traitors because he tends to have a very self-serving, selective memory as shown in In the Shadow of the Sun, Mists of Pandaria, and Battle for Azeroth.

[Mehrunes]

Except the Alliance wasn't "the enemy state" or a "rogue state" when she allied herself with them. Then she spent a little more than a thousand years fighting the Burning Legion alongside another group and her lover who was part of the Alliance. By the time she returns to Azeroth, I imagine she has spent more time away from Quel'thalas, than in Quel'thalas. She more reasons to join the Alliance than the Horde, considering that the man she loves and has been with, along with all the draenei she fought side-by-side, have joined the Alliance.

You imagine wrong. Alleria fought in the Troll Wars, she was already thousands of years old before she left for Outland. Also, in this context it wasn't up to Alleria to ally themselves with the Alliance. Her nation did, so she was a member of the Alliance. The moment Quel'Thalas stopped being a member of the Alliance, so pretty much immediately after the Second War, her continued allegiance to the Alliance constituted treason of Quel'Thalas, because that's not an allegiance it wished to continue to have. And since she's not its leader, she had fuck all of a say on the matter. Her having reasons also doesn't change anything about that, because they are immaterial to the topic.

Considering Umbric's whole thing was researching the Void as an alternative solution to overcome their mana addiction, this places it fairly safely in the BC timeline pre-2.4, so the blood elves are still trying to pull themselves together. We don't have enough to know where in that time frame it occurs, but it's safe to say (since In The Shadow of the Sun is also canon) the blood elves' and Forsaken hold on the Ghostlands is pretty tenuous, meaning Umbric and co. could take exile/refuge there with reasonable expectations they won't get any aid from the capital nor bother the blood elves' affairs and in turn be left alone to their research, as it wouldn't be worth the manpower or resources to chase them further south to the Plaguelands.

Yet he somehow had the manpower and resources to do exactly that to the people refusing to drain mana, who didn't pose an existential threat to the Sunwell, even before the Forsaken secured the Ghostlands for him. Speaking of which, Rommath kicked Umbric and his lot out of Silvermoon because they threatened the Sunwell. Which was kinda kaput before 2.4. Your timeline is off.

[Quaade]

Well, most of the Horde factions are to one degree or the other fascistic in their nature with the Orc being an unironic (and consciously unintended) parallel to the Lost Cause Confederacy, and Thrall's Horde (pre-council) in particular set up like a fascistic wet dream (since it was based on the peak fascistic Old Horde as Thrall has no idea how politics or power dynamics work) so I would say that being called a traitor by an extremely tribalistic, arrogant, and small-scale fascistic faction would be an honour.

Then again no one at Blizzard seems to have any idea how narrative framing is done properly. It took many years until someone noticed that the Orcs having willing slaves in form of the Peons was extremely bad optics and they fixed that with the equally racist "Great Saviour," so.

And the average BE has as much emotion to spare for those two as the average person from the US has for Benedict Arnold. That is to say, unless someone mentions them they're never even on their mind because average people have other things to focus on, like, how to have a stable life.

[Ihavewaffles]

They are traitors when 99% of high elves are now belfs. Fer sure

[sighy]

Except the Alliance wasn't "the enemy state" or a "rogue state" when she allied herself with them. Then she spent a little more than a thousand years fighting the Burning Legion alongside another group and her lover who was part of the Alliance. By the time she returns to Azeroth, I imagine she has spent more time away from Quel'thalas, than in Quel'thalas. She more reasons to join the Alliance than the Horde, considering that the man she loves and has been with, along with all the draenei she fought side-by-side, have joined the Alliance.

She fought in the Troll Wars 3000 years ago... so no. (Warcraft Encyclopedia information, which wasn't really contradicted by anything since then, but didn't survive the website overhaul either. Might learn more in the Sylvanas biography )


And not how it works. High Treason is based on your native country/kingdom and the alegience you therefore owe it's monarch(or any other ruling body).

This typically includes acts such as participating in a war against one's native country, attempting to overthrow its government, spying on its military, its diplomats, or its secret services for a hostile and foreign power, or attempting to kill its head of state. A person who commits treason is known in law as a traitor.

She checks out three of these commonly agreed upon criteria.
1. Participating in war against Quel'thalas
2. Trying to kill Lor'themar, in Siege of Lordaeon
3. Using information she overheard from Rommath to directly benefit a hostile power

[Viconia]

To be honest Vereesa's beef with the Blood Elves doesn't make sense. And no, Zendarin doesn't explain it. In that book Vereesa sympathizes with the Blood Elves on multiple occasions and flat out tells Zendarin he's unworthy of calling himself one. So it showed the opposite of her judging Blood Elves as a whole by his metric.

Huh, the more you know. Guess the foundation for their hatred isn't so much lackluster as completely non-existent. Just as well as the Purge was essentially brushed under a carpet once the writers needed mages to unite for Class Hall stuff. It only took Aethas to ask for forgiveness. Talk about cringe.

[Tanaria]

Huh, the more you know. Guess the foundation for their hatred isn't so much lackluster as completely non-existent. Just as well as the Purge was essentially brushed under a carpet once the writers needed mages to unite for Class Hall stuff. It only took Aethas to ask for forgiveness. Talk about cringe.

I thought he and Modera were an item.

Turns out he might also have the hots for a nightborne lady as well.

[Soon-TM]

Technically they aren't, since they never defied openly King Anasterian's orders. While he effectively seceded from the (old) Alliance, he did so in a low key, unlike e.g. Genn. So, if Alleria or Vereesa wanted to get a good gulp of Human Potential, he didn't particularly care.

Fast-forward to the aftermath of the Third War, neither Kael first (as crown prince and effective top dog) nor Lor'themar (as de facto ruler of Silvermoon) demanded anything from A/V, so they can't be qualified as 'traitors' in a literal sense, although they certainly are enemies of Silvermoon, especially "I hate belfs /rawr" Vereesa.

[saintminya]

Alleria and Vereesa are absolutely traitors to Silvermoon as well as their former friends/family and all other Blood Elves or non-Silver Covenant High Elves. Valeera is just opportunistic. Vereesa is probably the biggest traitor as she's been fighting Blood Elves for ages and actively aided in the Purge of Dalaran and subsequent events on the Isle of Thunder. Alleria at least made an attempt to reach out to Lor'themar and visit Silvermoon, but her void corruption soured the reunion. She probably should have known that such a reaction would happen, but I'll give her the benefit of the doubt. Should she ever return without having purged herself of void corruption, then that would be an act of terrorism and would make her worse than Vereesa.

[huth]

Alleria and Vereesa are absolutely traitors to Silvermoon as well as their former friends/family and all other Blood Elves or non-Silver Covenant High Elves. Valeera is just opportunistic. Vereesa is probably the biggest traitor as she's been fighting Blood Elves for ages and actively aided in the Purge of Dalaran and subsequent events on the Isle of Thunder. Alleria at least made an attempt to reach out to Lor'themar and visit Silvermoon, but her void corruption soured the reunion. She probably should have known that such a reaction would happen, but I'll give her the benefit of the doubt. Should she ever return without having purged herself of void corruption, then that would be an act of terrorism and would make her worse than Vereesa.

How is Alleria a traitor? When did she betray Silvermoon? She was kicked out before she ever got the chance. She can no longer turn traitor since Silvermoon dropped her first.

[Verdugo]

How is Alleria a traitor? When did she betray Silvermoon? She was kicked out before she ever got the chance. She can no longer turn traitor since Silvermoon dropped her first.

There was this event that happened a minute before she was kicked out. I am sure you can remember, just takes an effort.

[Mehrunes]

How is Alleria a traitor? When did she betray Silvermoon? She was kicked out before she ever got the chance. She can no longer turn traitor since Silvermoon dropped her first.

Putting aside the part where Alleria was kicked out of Silvermoon specifically, it's almost as if before that happened she took it on herself to act as an envoy of the Alliance to Quel'Thalas. You know, the faction in opposition to the Horde. The Horde that Quel'Thalas is a part of. Gee, I wonder if there is a term to describe joining an enemy political block.

[Shadowtwili]

There was this event that happened a minute before she was kicked out. I am sure you can remember, just takes an effort.

You mean the accident, which no one knew would happen because even the Regent-Lord allowed her acces, in which her presence accidently summoned void creatures near the Sunwell?

That's not being a traitor, that was an accident that got her (logically) exiled.

Putting aside the part where Alleria was kicked out of Silvermoon specifically, it's almost as if before that happened she took it on herself to act as an envoy of the Alliance to Quel'Thalas. You know, the faction in opposition to the Horde. The Horde that Quel'Thalas is a part of. Gee, I wonder if there is a term to describe joining an enemy political block.

This is so short sighted it actually hurts.

First, how was Alleria to know Silvermoon left the Alliance of Lordaeron when she was gone?
Second, when she returned she assumed that Silvermoon would, at most, be neutral again. Not part of the faction she last knew to be a part of the Burning Legion.

People here keep forgetting that when Alleria left Azeroth behind, the Horde was nothing more then an extension of the Burning Legion's will on Azeroth and not the faction it currently is.
She returned and suddenly everything is different, Silvermoon was decimated and mostly destroyed and blames and hates the Alliance for that and joined the Horde.
The Horde is no longer a tool of the Burning Legion but now appears to be led by the defiled, rotting corpse of what used to be her sister.
The Alliance still appears to mostly be the same noble Alliance she left behind, her last remaining living sister and her son still actively fight for that Alliance as do the people that still consider themselves high elves.
Her husband and his Army of the Light joined that Alliance too, and she got told by her living sister that the abomination that has the face of her death sister is not the same person anymore (and her living sister appears to be right so far).

So, why would she want to leave the Alliance for Quel'thalas, instead of trying to convince Quel'thalas to rejoin the Alliance? She has no baggage or involvement with with happened between the old Alliance and Quel'thalas.

[Giovaaa]

They willingly joined a faction that kills their people. And not just the warriors of their people out in the battlefield. Even their innocents like we saw when Jaina purged the vendors. To which she got off scot free. Traitors is too nice a word for them really.

[Mehrunes]

This is so short sighted it actually hurts.

First, how was Alleria to know Silvermoon left the Alliance of Lordaeron when she was gone?
Second, when she returned she assumed that Silvermoon would, at most, be neutral again. Not part of the faction she last knew to be a part of the Burning Legion.

People here keep forgetting that when Alleria left Azeroth behind, the Horde was nothing more then an extension of the Burning Legion's will on Azeroth and not the faction it currently is.
She returned and suddenly everything is different, Silvermoon was decimated and mostly destroyed and blames and hates the Alliance for that and joined the Horde.
The Horde is no longer a tool of the Burning Legion but now appears to be led by the defiled, rotting corpse of what used to be her sister.
The Alliance still appears to mostly be the same noble Alliance she left behind, her last remaining living sister and her son still actively fight for that Alliance as do the people that still consider themselves high elves.
Her husband and his Army of the Light joined that Alliance too, and she got told by her living sister that the abomination that has the face of her death sister is not the same person anymore (and her living sister appears to be right so far).

Yes, you not paying attention to the lore of Legion totally makes me shortsighted. That totes makes sense. Not in this universe, mind you, but perhaps in some Bizarro world. Because it just so happens that Alleria was already informed about all of that by Vereesa and Arator before she even returned to Azeroth. It's almost as if we had multiple scenes of her discussing such topics on top of the Vindicaar and reacting to the news.

Secondly, even if the above had not happened, by the time she visited Silvermoon to shill for Anduin she was still more than aware of Quel'Thalas' current position. Alleria herself made remarks about Lor'Themar serving under a Warchief. So congrats, even the very character you tried to lie about disproves your lies. Classic Alliance poster move right here. So contrary to the abject BS you just tried to push as facts, by the time Alleria returned to her homeland she was aware of the state of things. Yet she still chose to align herself with the Alliance, in direct opposition of her nation. Now, if only there was a term for that...

If anything hurts here it's the willful ignorance of the lore you exhibited here and blatant fanfiction peddling you engaged in in order to ineffectively throw shade at me.

Speaking of which, the Horde's ties to the Legion weren't known to people of Azeroth at the time of the Second War. Alleria most certainly doesn't make any references to it. The only reference to Legion in the entirety of Beyond the Dark Portal is when Kil'Jaeden is described in the scene where he captured Ner'zhul. And even putting that aside, aside from Sargeras giving them a target in Azeroth through Medivh, the Legion ceased to be directly involved in Horde's dealings for years prior to the invasion.

Also, since you brought it up yourself, let's talk about the circumstances of Alleria leaving in the first place. Because despite being a member of the Thalassian military (a high ranking one at that) she just fucked off on a personal hunt for vengeance and then teamed up with Alliance military expedition without any authorization from Quel'Thalas whatsoever. Meaning that Alleria deserted. Which, depending on how you look at it, made her a traitor before she even left Azeroth.

So, why would she want to leave the Alliance for Quel'thalas, instead of trying to convince Quel'thalas to rejoin the Alliance? She has no baggage or involvement with with happened between the old Alliance and Quel'thalas.

And this bit is just fallacious appeal to emotions. Her personal reasoning matters nothing in this context. She's not a member of Quel'Thalas' leadership, so it's not up to her to decide what direction the kingdom takes. She may not like it, but she doesn't have a say. And since she's a national of Quel'Thalas (first and foremost, since the time she spent in the Alliance is just a blip in her millennia-long life), it's her duty to follow that direction. Her going in a directly opposing direction to it is an act of treason.

[Ardenaso]

AFAIK Alleria and the Void Elves were simply given a restraining order against the Sunwell like stay away 10 ft for them

yes, joining the Alliance to help slay Blood Elves looks traitorous to me

(though I don't mind and it's more interesting IMO; I prefer it this way and not everyone has to adhere to their racial proper, that's why I want a living human race for the Horde)

[loras]

I kill humans all the time (i.e. in Freehold), am i a traitor to the alliance? No.

Quel'thalas is the high elven kingdom, the blood elves are "just" a subfaction thereof, even if they are the dominant one.

To betray one needs to turn against something they were part of, and since the ones you mentioned were never part of the blood elves but were part of the high elves, that means betrayal is only relevant if they act against the high elves (umbrella term for blood elves, void elves and originals) of Quel'thalas.

So unless they do something that negatively affects either all the high elves of quel'thalas, negatively affects the original high elves, or in the case of Alleria negatively affects the void elves, then there is simply no treason.

I think the confusion arises from the fact that many blood elves were forced to become blood elves, and as such still see themselves as the originals, despite them being the ones that have deviated. It happens all the time in real life, see i.e. migrants/Y.U.P.s/etc. trying to impose their values on locals for "not being normal".

It's also why such things get defensive / offensive real quick: From one side it seems like there are invaders, from the other it seems there are traitors. Cue Pokémon battlemusic.

[Shadowtwili]

If you feel like I attacked you, or threw shade at you, personally, well that wasn't my intent and in my opinion not what I did. But that's to expected of a rabid Horde fanboy who's only argumentive skill is mindlessly shouting his own right until you wear others down that they don't even bother and then declare victory and bieng right

Yes, you not paying attention to the lore of Legion totally makes me shortsighted.

Imagine thinking Vereesa and Arator are non-biased sources.

Arator the Redeemer says: No doubt my mother will soon ask about Sylvanas. What are you going to tell her?
Vereesa Windrunner says: It is a conversation I know we must have, but the thought of it fills me with dread. How can I explain to Alleria what our sister has become? The truth will break her heart.

Alleria Windrunner says: It is time, Turalyon. I must see my homeland again with my own eyes... and hear from Sylvanas how she could ever wear the mantle of warchief.

Alleria Windrunner: One day Silvermoon will stand again on the side of the Alliance. I know it.

Alleria Windrunner says: War I understand. We both do. But I expected to be fighting with two sisters at my side. Instead, I faced one of them in battle--or at least, what remains of her.

Alleria Windrunner says: Nor mine for you, my love. Enough reflection. We have a job to do--hunt down Sylvanas… and make her pay.

My sister has not known a worthy adversary for a time now. She has outsmarted, outplayed, and outwitted us because she is not shackled by good or evil, she is freed by her own willingness to pursue the mission, no matter the cost.

There is nothing left of my sister to admire. Were she here now I would fill her head with visions of terror until it burst like a boil.

Alleria has however made quite clear what she thinks of both the Horde and Silvermoon's position, does that make her a traitor, yeah sure, does it align with what we know of her character? (hate-driven to a suicide mission of genocide on the orcish homeworld) Yes.

Speaking of which, the Horde's ties to the Legion weren't known to people of Azeroth at the time of the Second War.

Agreed, that was my mistake because I equated Fel magic to the Legion and the Alliance knew of the orcs using Fel magic, the existence of Demons summoned by the orc warlocks and the Legion's use of Fel magic, but no mention of the Horde bieng extension of the Legion was ever made.

Also, since you brought it up yourself, let's talk about the circumstances of Alleria leaving in the first place. Because despite being a member of the Thalassian military (a high ranking one at that) she just fucked off on a personal hunt for vengeance and then teamed up with Alliance military expedition without any authorization from Quel'Thalas whatsoever. Meaning that Alleria deserted. Which, depending on how you look at it, made her a traitor before she even left Azeroth.

Is it desertion when the leadership upon her return assumes she'd return as a ranger of Quel'thalas? She still considered herself a ranger of Quel'thalas, so did Lor'themar Theron, and she was welcomed as one of Quel'thalas in the nightborne recruitment scenario (also the only time she questioned wether it was Lor'themar speaking or his Warchief Sylvanas using him yet again as her voice after he cut her off mid sentence), and after the nightborne recruitment scenario she was told this:

Lor'themar Theron: Enough! You will leave at once, Alleria. Accident or no, your presence poses a danger to Quel'Thalas. Go back to Stormwind. Silvermoon is no longer your home.

That said, I will revise my statement of Vereesa and the other high elves not bieng traitors, they are traitors.

They might've remained with the Alliance for (in their eyes) good reasons, that doesn't mean the act they commited was not treason to Quel'thalas.

AFAIK Alleria and the Void Elves were simply given a restraining order against the Sunwell like stay away 10 ft for them

Grand Magister Rommath says: This is why I demanded that Umbric and his radicals be exiled. Anyone who treats with the Void is a danger to the Sunwell!

Lor'themar Theron: Enough! You will leave at once, Alleria. Accident or no, your presence poses a danger to Quel'Thalas. Go back to Stormwind. Silvermoon is no longer your home.

(though I don't mind and it's more interesting IMO; I prefer it this way and not everyone has to adhere to their racial proper, that's why I want a living human race for the Horde)

Agreed! Just wish the high and void elves didn't play this big a role in the Alliance, they're pushing more interesting races such as the dwarves, draenei and gnomes to the side!

[Mehrunes]

I kill humans all the time (i.e. in Freehold), am i a traitor to the alliance? No.

Quel'thalas is the high elven kingdom, the blood elves are "just" a subfaction thereof, even if they are the dominant one.

To betray one needs to turn against something they were part of, and since the ones you mentioned were never part of the blood elves but were part of the high elves, that means betrayal is only relevant if they act against the high elves (umbrella term for blood elves, void elves and originals) of Quel'thalas.

So they weren't a part of the kingdom of Quel'Thalas that you yourself mentioned? Fascinating. Because what you "forgot" to mention is that Blood Elves aren't just the dominant faction, they are the ones in control of it, with direct continuation of power from Anasterian to the current regime. Alleria not being around when Kael made the purely symbolic decision to commemorate the fallen by slapping the Blood Elves name on them doesn't change that. Nor does it mean she doesn't owe her allegiance to the current leadership, because that's not how nations work.

Meanwhile Freehold is literally described as free people's fort in the story and isn't a part of the Alliance. So it's kinda obvious you wouldn't be a traitor to the Alliance for killing a bunch of unaligned pirates and mercenaries. This example tries to distort the topic to that of race. It's not. If High Elves killed only a bunch of Felblood, San'layn or Wretched they'd be free of the blemish of treason, even though are all Thalassians.

If you feel like I attacked you, or threw shade at you, personally, well that wasn't my intent and in my opinion not what I did. But that's to expected of a rabid Horde fanboy who's only argumentive skill is mindlessly shouting his own right until you wear others down that they don't even bother and then declare victory and bieng right

Yes, saying someone's argument is so short-sighted that it hurts is totally not throwing shade at them. Very convincing. And sorry to burst your bubble, but I don't need to declare that I am right, when the lore is right there for everyone to see. And since you're already moving the goalposts (by around 20 parsecs no less) just one paragraph below, if anyone's declaring victory for me, that'd be you by doing so.

And please spare me your trite BS about how my only argumentative skill is "mindlessly shouting my own right" (speaking of which, I'm sure "in your opinion" that's also totally not you throwing shade at me ), when unlike the Alliance team of fanfiction peddlers I can actually source my arguments. Which, you know, I've done in the very post you're quoting here and trying to misrepresent. Though I suppose if you start from the position of rejecting canon and substituting it with made up nonsense the act may appear "mindless". Also, if we're already delving into argumentative skills of different people, the only argumentative trick you lot have got is playing the victim when your headcanon is called out for what it is and pretending it somehow magically vindicates you. Here's a free piece of trivia for you: it doesn't.

Imagine thinking Vereesa and Arator are non-biased sources.

What I "imagine" is that just one post ago you tried to pretend Alleria had no way of even knowing that Quel'Thalas even left the Alliance in the first place and assumed it would at most be neutral. Now you're trying to harp on her sources being biased in order to salvage your lie. Which is not very effective. For multiple reasons, even. Starting with how whether her sources were biased or not doesn't change the fact she did have sources, which already exposes your blatant lie for what it is. Secondly, while Vereesa is rather zealous when it comes to the Blood Elf topic, Arator has never expressed any such behavior.

Thirdly, as it is indicated by my second example that you dishonestly cherry-picked out, Vereesa and Arator weren't her only sources anyway. So even if Arator is as biased as Vereesa, that doesn't change anything. Because her final source is Anduin, who sent her to Silvermoon to convince Lor'themar to rejoin the Alliance. And whatever bias Vereesa and Arator may or may not have used to sway Alleria, Anduin is so pure he gets bone aches from his holy bones when he as much as thinks a bad thought. So it's rather implausible he'd have tried to deceive Alleria with false portrayal of the situation.

Finally, how does bias even enter the picture here? Whether Quel'Thalas left the Alliance or not is a matter of fact. It either left it or it didn't and is still a member. So while Vereesa may have painted the circumstances pertaining to the kingdom leaving the Alliance in a negative light, the same does not apply to the factual issue of Quel'Thalas' allegiance to the Alliance itself.

Alleria has however made quite clear what she thinks of both the Horde and Silvermoon's position, does that make her a traitor, yeah sure, does it align with what we know of her character? (hate-driven to a suicide mission of genocide on the orcish homeworld) Yes.

Weird, I thought I had to wear you down so that you wouldn't even bother and then I'd declare victory. Yet here you are admitting she's indeed a traitor. Fascinating.

Also, Alleria lost her genocidal hatred even before the end of Beyond the Dark Portal thanks to Turalyon and between then and now she also spend five hundred years fighting the Legion and another five hundred in a Naaru prison, so I'm not sure how said hatred still matters at this point.

Is it desertion when the leadership upon her return assumes she'd return as a ranger of Quel'thalas? She still considered herself a ranger of Quel'thalas, so did Lor'themar Theron, and she was welcomed as one of Quel'thalas in the nightborne recruitment scenario (also the only time she questioned wether it was Lor'themar speaking or his Warchief Sylvanas using him yet again as her voice after he cut her off mid sentence), and after the nightborne recruitment scenario she was told this:

When did the Thalassian leadership make such assumption? And Lor'themar did not "consider her a ranger of Quel'Thalas" in the slightest. What he actually called her is a "guest" and "a hero of Quel'Thalas' past". Even if there was no deeper meaning behind the "past" part, there's no mention of her still being a ranger there. He also openly expressed mistrust of her on the grounds of her Void connections.

Also, yes, desertion is still desertion regardless of what other people assume about you. Such assumptions are totally inconsequential, the only thing that matters to determine whether one has deserted or not are their actions. Also, no one said anything about desertion being permanent, deserters can return, which does in no way unmake their desertion. But desert she did, in more than one way. Her going AWOL on a personal Orc hunt was already an act of desertion in and of itself. But joining another military without authorization, which she did when she joined the expedition to Draenor, can also be considered desertion depending on the jurisdiction (it is the case in US, for example).

That said, I will revise my statement of Vereesa and the other high elves not bieng traitors, they are traitors.

They might've remained with the Alliance for (in their eyes) good reasons, that doesn't mean the act they commited was not treason to Quel'thalas.

And that wouldn't be correct either. First of all, the High Elves that are affiliated with the Alliance right now didn't "remain" with the Alliance. Quel'Thalas left the Alliance shortly after the Second War, meaning that they had to team up with the Alliance again. Secondly, applying this label at all High Elves is misguided. Because the current meaning of a High Elf stems first and foremost from the simple fact that Kael didn't gather all survivors of the Scourge's invasion. He only gathered 90% of them because the rest were, for one reason or another, out of his reach. And he renamed those survivors the Blood Elves, unaware of the rest. And while many of the other 10% did join the Alliance, some did not. So they're not all traitors.

[Aucald]

This thread needs to settle down. Drop the invective and overly personal insults and discuss the matter civilly.