The Night Elves/borne discussion thread

[Terrorthatflapsinthenight]

Wow depiction of night elves pretty much focuses on their druidic part, while priestesses and sentinels (which would include rogues, assassins and the likes) are kind of underdeveloped.

Well there were many opportunities and aspects of the Night Elves to be developped and explored further outside of the druidism aspect, and it's one of them.

Same for Elune clergy, as well as their unique military and relations with their classic allies and the draenei, and their politics too.

And even some druid classes or possibilities could have been developped more such as the druids of the flame (with at least some of them being really loyal to their people) or the druids of the swarm (found in Hearthstone) who can use and turn into insects and spiders.

[shoc]

Different body types for the same race is never going to happen.

[Mace]

Different body types for the same race is never going to happen.

Humans and night elves can have that right now...

Human: Kul'tiran = large model, human = medium, forsaken = skinny
night elf/borne: night elf = medium, nightborne = skinny

These work because all gear has been redone to fit the new sizes - since these races are playable.. skinny humans only need superficial texture changes like skin and hhair, and will have an upright standstil ll posture.. unfortunately, i don't think the bent over undead animation walking can change - but it probably can.

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On another note:

Patch 9.1.5 PTR - Upcoming Hand Glow Effect for Nightborne

Hello everyone!

In this thread there has been passionate feedback for Nightborne to have the hand glow effect that is seen on some Nightborne NPCs. We loved the idea after reading your feedback and have been looking into the feasibility of bringing that option to Nightborne character customization. The hand glow effect is a bit more involved and has taken some finessing to figure out due to its unique nature, but we’ve gotten a good grasp on it. In this week’s PTR build, we’ll be bringing a version of this as a new customization option to Nightborne females for testing, with the male hand glow coming in a later PTR build.

The glow effect is a unique customization option and a work in progress, please let us know what you think after testing out the new option on your Nightborne.

I'm looking forward to this, I guess the campaigning is actually working.

[Alanar]

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On another note:





I'm looking forward to this, I guess the campaigning is actually working.

Yea this is great, I have been adding my feedback to the forums as well and this was one of my points.
Very pleased to see it wasn't for nothing.

[Terrorthatflapsinthenight]

I'm hungry for a more developped relation and bond between the Night Elves and the Draenei, one of the most underused relations between two races of the same faction despite all the interesting aspects and potential that could come of their relation.

There should be more interactions with their High Elves cousins too, given all the history that went between the Kaldorei and the Highborne, the cultural differences and yet the fact that some friendships have been formed such as the ones that Alleria and Vereesa Windrunner have with Shandris Feathermoon.

[Doffen]

Some good news eh!

Hands down, awesome!

[shoc]

That should put the matter to rest that Nightborne are just weird Night Elves.

[Rhlor]

Humans and night elves can have that right now...

Human: Kul'tiran = large model, human = medium, forsaken = skinny
night elf/borne: night elf = medium, nightborne = skinny

These work because all gear has been redone to fit the new sizes - since these races are playable.. skinny humans only need superficial texture changes like skin and hhair, and will have an upright standstil ll posture.. unfortunately, i don't think the bent over undead animation walking can change - but it probably can.

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On another note:





I'm looking forward to this, I guess the campaigning is actually working.

Yeah!!!!! So cool ������������������

[Terrorthatflapsinthenight]

Wow depiction of night elves pretty much focuses on their druidic part, while priestesses and sentinels (which would include rogues, assassins and the likes) are kind of underdeveloped.

Also if the dwarves, gnomes, blood elves and forsaken have their own intelligence organisations there is no reason for the Kaldorei to not have their own independant from SI:7.

And their own intelligence services should be much like the moonshadow elves assassins in their fighting style and weapons, though also equipped with mini glaives like shirukens and darts laced with poison.

An owl theme would be fitting for them since owls are known for their incredible vision and hearing capacities and for their stealth, flying silently with their preys being unable to hear them coming until it's too late.

[Vaedan]

Also if the dwarves, gnomes, blood elves and forsaken have their own intelligence organisations there is no reason for the Kaldorei to not have their own independant from SI:7.

And their own intelligence services should be much like the moonshadow elves assassins in their fighting style and weapons, though also equipped with mini glaives like shirukens and darts laced with poison.

An owl theme would be fitting for them since owls are known for their incredible vision and hearing capacities and for their stealth, flying silently with their preys being unable to hear them coming until it's too late.

I agree, I think moonshadow elves great inspiration for stealthy elves. Similarities with night elves are obvious. I think night elves, void elves and worgen should be backbone of Alliance's espionage and infiltration organizations, but somehow, we ended up with Shaw and SI:7.

I think Dragon Prince concepts of elves have great potential. Moonshadow elves for night elves, Sunfire elves for blood elves and I'd love to see Startouch elves influence on void elves.

[Mace]

I'm hungry for a more developped relation and bond between the Night Elves and the Draenei, one of the most underused relations between two races of the same faction despite all the interesting aspects and potential that could come of their relation.

There should be more interactions with their High Elves cousins too, given all the history that went between the Kaldorei and the Highborne, the cultural differences and yet the fact that some friendships have been formed such as the ones that Alleria and Vereesa Windrunner have with Shandris Feathermoon.

Night elves should be really tight with Draenei and Void elves. There is so much to explore.

Elune, desire for life. Dark side of the moon, void and night warrior. Not to mention highborne and void elves would also be great friends.

I loved the idea of void elves helping druids deal with the Emerald nightmare and developing a void elf version of Druidism through their close relations.

There is also the highborne and Draenei Mage connection. A side of the eredar that is prolific by lore but seldom expanded on in game.

The light isn’t the be all of the Draenei, nor is the forest the be all of the night elves. So much cool left to explore

[Terrorthatflapsinthenight]

I agree, I think moonshadow elves great inspiration for stealthy elves. Similarities with night elves are obvious. I think night elves, void elves and worgen should be backbone of Alliance's espionage and infiltration organizations, but somehow, we ended up with Shaw and SI:7.

I think Dragon Prince concepts of elves have great potential. Moonshadow elves for night elves, Sunfire elves for blood elves and I'd love to see Startouch elves influence on void elves.

Don't forget or understimate the gnomes for espionage given their size, agility and inventions for intelligence purpose. But yeah Night Elves, Worgens and Void Elves should produce excellent spies and assassins and are cruelly underused in this area.

[Mace]

I agree, I think moonshadow elves great inspiration for stealthy elves. Similarities with night elves are obvious. I think night elves, void elves and worgen should be backbone of Alliance's espionage and infiltration organizations, but somehow, we ended up with Shaw and SI:7.

I think Dragon Prince concepts of elves have great potential. Moonshadow elves for night elves, Sunfire elves for blood elves and I'd love to see Startouch elves influence on void elves.

I thought so too. When we watched it, we really felt the Kaldorei embodied both the Moonshadow elves and the star elves.

But there was more mystery about the star elves because that is an aspect of the night elves blizzard hasn’t fleshed out choosing instead to expand Druid lore over fleshing out the star culture, Elune lore and to a lesser extent arcane lore and demon Hunter lore - In game that is. In the books, the time spent on the arcane and ore sundering as well as demon hunters is just as much as Druidism and would have been more if not for the Novel stormrage.

Elune lore and star culture fleshing out is really low. This is the part the Nightborne can share also. But they are the wrong name for that.

Which is why I propose they carve out new niches tele d deeply to the night rather than the stars which should be an exciting Kaldorei lore development

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Yea this is great, I have been adding my feedback to the forums as well and this was one of my points.
Very pleased to see it wasn't for nothing.

We’re really excited about this. I think Raven is going to be maiming a Nightborne from 9.1.5

[Terrorthatflapsinthenight]

Night elves should be really tight with Draenei and Void elves. There is so much to explore.

Elune, desire for life. Dark side of the moon, void and night warrior. Not to mention highborne and void elves would also be great friends.

I loved the idea of void elves helping druids deal with the Emerald nightmare and developing a void elf version of Druidism through their close relations.

There is also the highborne and Draenei Mage connection. A side of the eredar that is prolific by lore but seldom expanded on in game.

The light isn’t the be all of the Draenei, nor is the forest the be all of the night elves. So much cool left to explore

Draenei could really help teaching the Night Elves about arcane magic given their mastery and knowledge of it, their priests and paladins could also possibly help the moon priests and priestesses find new uses to the powers granted by Elune, not counting the exploration of the ties between Elune and the Naaru. Not counting the exchanges and interactions with the Highborne as you said.

And indeed the Draenei's experience with and mastery of magic is cruelly underrated and underexploited, as well as their unique magitek. The Eredars were able of creating a civilization even more advanced and powerful that the Kaldorei Empire at its peak and its been said many times that they are one of the most brilliant races of Warcraft universe in terms of magic, science and technology and that it was because of this that Sargeras wanted them so much in the Burning Legion but it's never shown properly in the game or even the books or short stories.

The fact that the Night Elves and Draenei were also capable of bonding and creating an alliance despite the Draenei's history and ties with Archimonde and the other Man'ari is also not exploited enough.

[Mace]

That should put the matter to rest that Nightborne are just weird Night Elves.

They always were, it’s pretty sundering Kaldorei stuff mainly. With a bit of Druidism and Elunism in the pipe works but in opposite proportions to the Darnassians.

But as I mentioned in the opposite topic. These two do not neee to be mirrors or opposites. They are two societies of night elves with their own stories and history that has brought them to the current point and they should be developed in interesting ways their fans like and that is good regardless of how much overlap or lack thereof there is

What I mean is just because night elves do the Druid thing doesn’t mean Nightborne shouldn’t. And just because Nightborne do the arcane pre sundering thing, doesn’t mean. That is redundant in the night elves now anymore than Highmountain shamanism or Druidism negates Tauren.

Being on two different factions makes this even more important, you don’t want to force night elf alliance fans to play Nightborne to realise their race’s arcane or civilization fantasy, nor do you want horde night elf fans to play alliance to experience aspects of Elune or Druidism.

The gem of sun races is as much in just a different look or slightly different story as it is a different set where it can be had

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Draenei could really help teaching the Night Elves about arcane magic given their mastery and knowledge of it, their priests and paladins could also possibly help the moon priests and priestesses find new uses to the powers granted by Elune, not counting the exploration of the ties between Elune and the Naaru. Not counting the exchanges and interactions with the Highborne as you said.

And indeed the Draenei's experience with and mastery of magic is cruelly underrated and underexploited, as well as their unique magitek. The Eredars were able of creating a civilization even more advanced and powerful that the Kaldorei Empire at its peak and its been said many times that they are one of the most brilliant races of Warcraft universe in terms of magic, science and technology and that it was because of this that Sargeras wanted them so much in the Burning Legion but it's never shown properly in the game or even the books or short stories.

The fact that the Night Elves and Draenei were also capable of bonding and creating an alliance despite the Draenei's history and ties with Archimonde and the other Man'ari is also not exploited enough.

Some good ideas here, although I don’t think the Draenei need to teach the night elves about magic. The night elves were more than enough for the Eredar magicians in the original invasion. And those were sargerite enhanced Eredar. Night elven Shen’dralar who lead the Darnassian highborne and Moonguard from 7.0 have an additional 10,009 years of learning to add to that.

Knowledge exchange form the Draenei would be in technology - magic and the light possibly.

But I think the two have shared values of life and can be great friends despite different focused, not requiring learning from each other but the option can help expand both

[Mace]

First iteration in, not bad, but It's not enough.. need to check if the feet glow.

[ravenmoon]

First iteration in, not bad, but It's not enough.. need to check if the feet glow.

This is really good.

I'm serious, the forest vibe is not poopular enough to carry the night elves - besides they are so much more than that.. this is why i badly want the stylish star themed tattoos on Tyrande we saw as avatar of Elune and Night warrior - that reflects that arcane heritage of the night elves, their power.

And would love to see those additions.

Night elves don't need as much as nightborne, but remember night elves are the original highborne and their high society is very similar to that of the nightborne who basically are a version of that very same side of the night elves that become Nightborne.

Because void elves got high elves, I won't begrudge the horde having nightborne at all, but I would request the night elves not only show demon hunter and druidic vibes, but get some serious arcane and Elune ones too..






Now I'd like them to add several versions of these to night elves.

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First iteration in, not bad, but It's not enough.. need to check if the feet glow.

Feet don't glow, someone needs to remind them of that.

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Also males don't have it yet.

[Rhlor]

First iteration in, not bad, but It's not enough.. need to check if the feet glow.

I love it!! Rushana shaldorei

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This is really good.

I'm serious, the forest vibe is not poopular enough to carry the night elves - besides they are so much more than that.. this is why i badly want the stylish star themed tattoos on Tyrande we saw as avatar of Elune and Night warrior - that reflects that arcane heritage of the night elves, their power.

And would love to see those additions.

Night elves don't need as much as nightborne, but remember night elves are the original highborne and their high society is very similar to that of the nightborne who basically are a version of that very same side of the night elves that become Nightborne.

Because void elves got high elves, I won't begrudge the horde having nightborne at all, but I would request the night elves not only show demon hunter and druidic vibes, but get some serious arcane and Elune ones too..






Now I'd like them to add several versions of these to night elves.

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Feet don't glow, someone needs to remind them of that.

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Also males don't have it yet.

Elune is not arcane titan. She is part of life pantheon

[ravenmoon]

Elune is not arcane titan. She is part of life pantheon

So? Do you think she casts life magic? Do all the death pantheon only use death magic because they are part of the death pantheon?

You see so clearly when it comes to blood elves, but seem partially blinded to night elves.. do you care enough to update your night elf views based on what you see? I know you don't play alliance and dont' really care, so it seems that you won't really know that match or care to, but still. We've been here before.

Use your eyes and read the night elf history, lore and see what you are shown. Elune uses arcane mainly, then light and void.

Have you not seen every night elf priest from before sundering and after always use arcane spells for Elune magic. The priesthood and arcane are tied together, just as the priesthood and nature are tied together.

That's the whole point of the night elves arcane and nature duality and balance.. they aren't only tied to nature, the arcane is everywehre as is nature and as is Elune, Or have you forgotten.. blood elves have arcane aptitude from their NIGHT E lF heritage... and don't you ever forget that nightborne are just a sub-set of night elves.. this apittude is there becuase it is part of the night elf. And that kaldorei, hasn't changed at all either - no magical deviations, the same being born from the arcane, loving nature, and wielding both to stupid heights are the same ones walking around.. whether they choose to turn their talents to anture, to fel, to the arcane or to Elune worship..


You have to see the night elves for what they are, not try to put them into typical boxes.

e.g. THe order of Eune, is not just a holy magic order because it's priestly: Look at what you're shown

1. it is a martial order of highly skilled bow wielding huntresses and warrior females
2. It is also a magical order that mainly uses ARCANE magic for ALL it's offensive spells
3. IT also Taps into the void seemingly as prolifically as the Light

It's not your typical priest order at all, but they show you this if you bother to pay attention, it iis also described.. there is a reason why the night elves have so much arcane, their is a connection between the arcane well of eternity, Elune, the night eves, how they discovered her, magic, their purple skin colours and their arcane powered white/blue glowy eyes. their 15,000 year attachment to the well, moonwells, then their love of the goddess and their love of nature, the story that shows how they became a great civilization, how disaster struck, how different groups fragmented, but while some night elves became Thalssian elves, most remained night elves, some in the long vigil to prevent the legion's return, greatly developing magical expertise in nature, but some continued in the arcane - the shen'dralar and the Suramar night elves who altered to nightborne night elves, the Monoguard too. Others turned to fel to hunt and exterminate the demons.

This isn't a 1 -dimensional race, with a 1 dimensional story, to generalise into a little box because you're not that interested.. see them for what they are, and what you are shown, don't try to make them into just wood elves, and I won't try to make them into arcane elves.. they are a a combination of both and more.

[Tanaria]

SNIP

https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Arcane

What Rhlor is getting at, is that Elune's Magic is not the same as what Mages cast. Arcane is typically seen as the magic that Mages use, whether it's Draenei, Blood Elves, Humans or Zandalari Trolls. Blizzard themselves, when talking about "the Arcane" they have referred it to Mages, and Mage-characters like Khadgar and races, such as the Nightborne and Blood Elves.
They've never made Tyrande or the sisterhood out to be these great night elf mages. They are Priestesses and have no relation to the "Arcane" in the main aspect, which is the Mage-craft.

Elune's Magic is an otherworldly source, but is given the Arcane tag, just like Healing Wave is given the "nature" tag, even though it has precious little to do with "nature."