Biden / Harris Focused Discussion

[Levelfive]

I cant be mad at Sinema cuz this literally was the risk of holding the infrastructure bill hostage yet progressives ignored those risks and did it anyways

They're "holding it hostage" to the exact degree moderates are holding reconciliation hostage--moderates reneged on the deal, a deal that was all of what moderates wanted, and about 58% of what progressives wanted, a deal that only existed in the first place because of the worry that moderates would get what they want and leave everybody else out to dry...which is exactly what they did. Now we're here. That said, there's maybe a 1% chance that this doesn't come together relatively soonish. If it comes up for a vote tomorrow and is defeated, that buys some time, which is great because there's no actual looming deadline--it's an artificial timeline pushed by yet other shitty house centrists for nonsense reasons (speaking of which, anybody know what Sinema actually objects to in the bill? Manchin? jk that's rhetorical, though Manchin's performance art is at least electorally defensible, and he generally appears when the chips are down). Pelosi has already given herself room not to bring it up tomorrow, which is also fine. Reconciliation will come in at 2.5 or 2.9 or w/e, and it will still all be fine. Sinema, by the way, has some pharmaceutical companies or some such making it rain fancy shmancy pamphlets back home touting her triumphant bipartisan delivery of infrastructure to AZ. She wants it passed. Sinema will also not be re-elected in '24. I'm not a fan of eating my words, but I'll risk it on this one.

[PACOX]

So, what's going to happen with this shut down? The GOP (and GOP who pretend to be dems) has shown they're more than willing to just never ever budge and watch the nation burn.

Its going to be like the last major shutdown, just the opposite parties and compromises.

[Toppy]

Its going to be like the last major shutdown, just the opposite parties and compromises.

Except in that case one side was actually willing to compromise.

[Easo]

That’s hilarious. Only Nazis for you I guess.

Please do expand on this train of thought - not supporting the left means you only support Nazis...? Cause that's how I interpreted your words.

[Toppy]

Please do expand on this train of thought - not supporting the left means you only support Nazis...? Cause that's how I interpreted your words.

The American right, at least its politicians and major figures, are either racist, fascist, sexist, and/or a mix of all three. And without fail all support failed economic and social structures.

Maybe not all Nazi's, but any modern day right winger is either a horrible person, or chooses to remain willfully ignorant of their own party.

[DarkTZeratul]

So, what's going to happen with this shut down? The GOP (and GOP who pretend to be dems) has shown they're more than willing to just never ever budge and watch the nation burn.

I dunno, apparently a lot of GOP is pissed at their leadership for taking a hardline stance and thinks risking a shutdown is stupid:
https://www.forbes.com/sites/andrews...tructure-bill/

[uuuhname]

how anyone can see Sinema and Manchin as anything but attention whores is beyond me. if they were republicans they'd be a dime a dozen, if there was a sizable dem majority in the senate they would be equally irrelevant in their "opposition" to doing anything the republicans might not like. they are in unique positions with such a slim majority where we have to take these shit heads seriously. at some point they are going to buckle, but not before milking it for all the attention it's worth.

[JohnBrown1917]

Sinema is my queen

You can just say "I hate the poor", its fewer letters.

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Tulsi is a right wing darling, she regularly appears on Tucker’s show spouting the same BS talking points he does. Anyone who thinks she’s “too left wing” is going full fash.

To be honest, that was already obvious when he made helicopter ride jokes about leftists.

[Benggaul]

I dunno, apparently a lot of GOP is pissed at their leadership for taking a hardline stance and thinks risking a shutdown is stupid:
https://www.forbes.com/sites/andrews...tructure-bill/

Pretty sure it's a ploy to force Dems to use their last reconciliation (possibly for the entire presidency given that the House is looking shaky for 2022) on this which is something they all want done rather than on actual progressive legislation which the GOP is entirely against. McConnell may not have control of the Senate anymore, but he's not done fucking things up for everyone.

[uuuhname]

Sinema is my queen

what is a queen to a vote of no confidence? congrats, on being so uniquely awful the group that put you into office is more than ready to kick your ass out.

[Breccia]

I dunno, apparently a lot of GOP is pissed at their leadership for taking a hardline stance and thinks risking a shutdown is stupid

Their ire is meaningless until they vote. If they vote no and hate it, they still vote no. "I was just following orders" is still Lawful Evil.

[tehdang]

The American right, at least its politicians and major figures, are either racist, fascist, sexist, and/or a mix of all three. And without fail all support failed economic and social structures.

Maybe not all Nazi's, but any modern day right winger is either a horrible person, or chooses to remain willfully ignorant of their own party.

But why won’t they compromise with us???

Short of nazis, the American right gets to pick between racist, fascist, sexist. Exciting. And if they tell you to F off, you politically ignorant and blockbusting fool, I wonder what happens.

Oh yeah, a 50-50 senate trying to pass 3.5 trillion dollar legislation like they didn’t have 6+ moderates that hope to be re-elected when they’re back up for a vote. Not a 10 seat majority because the whole country agrees with a good vs evil narrative and made that known in 2020.

The whole Sinema and Manchin hatred is a godsend. They need more reason to buck the party and demand bills more in line with their thinking on the budget and spending. And they have so much power since the Democrats failed to capture more seats across the country (damn the gerrymandered Senate races lol). I still think they’ll get some monstrous bipartisan infrastructure deal passed, but the biggest prize won’t go through. They don’t have the majority necessary. And they can’t will FDR majorities into existence.

[Machismo]

But why won’t they compromise with us???

Short of nazis, the American right gets to pick between racist, fascist, sexist. Exciting. And if they tell you to F off, you politically ignorant and blockbusting fool, I wonder what happens.

Oh yeah, a 50-50 senate trying to pass 3.5 trillion dollar legislation like they didn’t have 6+ moderates that hope to be re-elected when they’re back up for a vote. Not a 10 seat majority because the whole country agrees with a good vs evil narrative and made that known in 2020.

The whole Sinema and Manchin hatred is a godsend. They need more reason to buck the party and demand bills more in line with their thinking on the budget and spending. And they have so much power since the Democrats failed to capture more seats across the country (damn the gerrymandered Senate races lol). I still think they’ll get some monstrous bipartisan infrastructure deal passed, but the biggest prize won’t go through. They don’t have the majority necessary. And they can’t will FDR majorities into existence.

Well, that's what happens when the "American right" votes for fascists, racists, and sexists.

People are allowed to judge others for their actions.

[Endus]

But why won’t they compromise with us???

Short of nazis, the American right gets to pick between racist, fascist, sexist. Exciting. And if they tell you to F off, you politically ignorant and blockbusting fool, I wonder what happens.

Oh yeah, a 50-50 senate trying to pass 3.5 trillion dollar legislation like they didn’t have 6+ moderates that hope to be re-elected when they’re back up for a vote. Not a 10 seat majority because the whole country agrees with a good vs evil narrative and made that known in 2020.

The whole Sinema and Manchin hatred is a godsend. They need more reason to buck the party and demand bills more in line with their thinking on the budget and spending. And they have so much power since the Democrats failed to capture more seats across the country (damn the gerrymandered Senate races lol). I still think they’ll get some monstrous bipartisan infrastructure deal passed, but the biggest prize won’t go through. They don’t have the majority necessary. And they can’t will FDR majorities into existence.

Really, all this post amounts to is gloating as Rome burns down around you, with Republicans still running around lighting more fires.

[uuuhname]

Really, all this post amounts to is gloating as Rome burns down around you, with Republicans still running around lighting more fires.

really craven given the fact not a single elected republican has been interested in "governing" for the past 30 years. even when they are in control. it's just tax cuts, bigger military budgets, eroding worker's rights, rinse, repeat.

[Breccia]

Republicans still running around lighting more fires.

It's hard to make a brighter fire than "we won't get vaccines and we won't fund the government". But hey, I've been surprised before.

[Endus]

really craven given the fact not a single elected republican has been interested in "governing" for the past 30 years. even when they are in control. it's just tax cuts, bigger military budgets, eroding worker's rights, rinse, repeat.

It ignores that "compromise" only works between two positions that each have justifiable merit. When one position has merit, and the other is racism, fascism, or some other horror show, ideologically speaking, the only valid position is opposition. Because doing nothing is preferably to any compromise with such ideological outlooks.

It's like asking people to "compromise" with pedophiles on whether child porn should be legal.
Or asking people to "compromise" with cannibals on who they can kill and eat.

No compromise is possible. Just rejection, opposition, and doing everything that is feasible to oppose them gaining even an inch of political ground.

And if you can't prevent that creep? Then the country's already lost. There may be no recovery short of survival through to the other side of the horrors to come, as the shattered remnants of that society pulls itself back together after annihilation, whether internal or through international military response, as happened with Nazi Germany (before anyone pushing the fascist agenda misconstrues such international opposition as "bad").

That's why I said "gloating". He thinks they've already won and it's a matter of time. I don't agree. But the response isn't to try and find some middle ground, it's to start digging in heels and burn their dreams to metaphorical ash wherever possible. That's the only way to prevent a fall to fascism. Playing the "compromise" game just ends up with fascism winning, because they're going to constantly shift those goalposts. Because they don't actually believe in any ideological principles other than seizing power and control, and using those to hurt innocent people. Full stop.

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It's hard to make a brighter fire than "we won't get vaccines and we won't fund the government". But hey, I've been surprised before.

"We should subjugate the non-whites again."
"Women should be protected from their own unwarranted aspirations, and should be 'allowed' to return to homemaking."
"We should make it more clear that the USA has always been a Christian nation, and that blasphemers and heretics are not welcome here."

I could keep going. Full-on Gilead isn't even as bad as it could get. Anti-vaxxer and budget failures are campfires compared to the widespread inferno they want to establish.

[Elegiac]

But why won’t they compromise with us???

Short of nazis, the American right gets to pick between racist, fascist, sexist. Exciting.

Don't embrace fascist rhetoric and policies and you won't get called out on it.

Really fuckin' simple.

Moreover, we don't want compromise: we want y'all to shut the fuck up, sit down, and let people with an actual interest in governing do their jobs. There's no compromise to be had with people who think politics is a team sport.

[beanman12345]

I dunno, apparently a lot of GOP is pissed at their leadership for taking a hardline stance and thinks risking a shutdown is stupid:
https://www.forbes.com/sites/andrews...tructure-bill/

Cause it is. And Republicans just caved. CR being passed at last minute as fkn usual. Always same bullshit every time they kick the can down the road. CR will last till Dec.

[postman1782]

I cant be mad at Sinema cuz this literally was the risk of holding the infrastructure bill hostage yet progressives ignored those risks and did it anyways

Partisans ruining american politics is nothing new. First it came from the republican party and the radicals in the democrat party are doing it now

The only reason she isn't fucking voting for it, is because she found out she can make fucking money from her shitty donors. She won't be in the senate for long after this bullshit.

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Tulsi is a right wing darling, she regularly appears on Tucker’s show spouting the same BS talking points he does. Anyone who thinks she’s “too left wing” is going full fash.

Don't forget she likes Prime Minister Modi, that wanted to ethnically cleanse India of Muslims.