M+ needs back Titanforging

[Eazy]

What you fail to understand is that by removing the prospect of being able to realistically achieve bis, the game gave us the freedom to choose how much time and effort we wanted to commit to gearing according to our needs dictated by the content we wanted to tackle and what we wanted to achieve in-game.

How much time and EFFORT - yes, if someone wants upgrades, then he should put some effort and do the harder content instead of praying to RNG Gods to get a RANDOM upgrade that won't be really needed for an LFR hero.

This was fantastic for most players, especially anyone with the ability to think and act of their own accord without the need of a bis list to set their goals and objectives for them. Sadly, for the rest of us, we have regressed to the bis system based on what was never more than a vocal minority who may or may not have represented the majority of players (and given the tiny percentage of players who ever actually achieved bis in the game, it's more than likely the latter).

No. That's a fallacy.

If everyone has BIS items, then everyone isn't brought down by RNG, and the only thing that matter is... skill. And being skilled needs effort, instead of random drops.

Yeah, but not anywhere close to the extent to which you'd have us believe. As has been reiterated here many times already, there is a world of difference between liking the possibility of getting a nice item, and the expectation of getting full mythic gear. For the vast majority of players, what TF/WF actually translated into was a gradual increase of average ilevel over time. At no point was the gear advantage of the mythic raider ever under threat from lesser difficulty players (just as heroic raiders weren't challenged by normal raiders, who weren't challenged by LFR players). Nor was there ever an expectation, nor desire for this.

LFR/low M+ people don't need higher ilvl gear. Simple and a fact.

If someone needs higher ilvl gear for doing harder content... they actually need to put some effort and do the harder content.
It's not even about LFR/low M+ players being dangerous for other more skilled players, it's about effort-reward relation and also parasiting with higher ilvls in the raid and applying for the content they aren't supposed to do.

And that was their CHOICE. The important point here is that no one was ever forced into this position. If some mythic raider didn't enjoy doing LFR for a 0.001% of a small gear upgrade, then the answer was simple, they shouldn't bother with LFR, and if they chose to do it anyway, they have only themselves and their poor grasp of statistics

But why FORCE them? It's obvious their choice, just as it is LFR/low m+ players choice to do effortless content for low gear.
LFR raiders and low M+ chose to not get the high ilvl gear, because they cannot really put some effort in a video game, and that's totally fine. Everyone should be playing on the levels they want to. But when someone wants the bonuses and profits compared to the harder content players it's totally unfair and stupid.

Oh get over yourself and your ridiculous sense of entitlement please. You're fixating on minute details while ignoring the bigger picture which is that the average mythic raider had a 45 ilevel advantage over LFR players. Now you're getting upset because in the case of a rare 0.001% of LFR players that advantage is reduced to 44 ilevels?

Using imaginary statistics isn't a proper argument lmao

No, I was saying that Mythic raiders had significantly better gear.

Yes. And they're also better players.

I am not sure where you get this idea that an item obtained by an LFR player somehow deprived a Mythic raider. The two things are completely independent.

It's not just LFR/mythic. It's even Heroic/mythic or Normal/LFR. People shouldn't be able to get the gear that are above their efforts.

First off, maybe stop trying to be a self-proclaimed authority on who should get what. Based on what you've expressed here you would be terrible at it.

I am self-proclaiemd authority because it seems that I am one of the few players that actually says that reward should be equal to effort? It's not communism. If you cannot pul your weight you shouldn't be rewarded. Simple

Secondly, I think your argument that the rewards are not commensurate with effort is wrong. Lesser difficulty levels may be less effort than higher difficulty levels, but that doesn't mean the effort is zero. Hell, I'd bet that many here would even agree that LFR can be more effort than heroic if you're in a decent guild, simply because of the level of stupid you have to deal with in LFR. Regardless, the probabilities of getting meaningful TF drops from lower difficulties means that the number of times you would need to run that content to have a comparable chance of seeing the item drop, more than justifies the reward if you're talking about effort. Just to put it in perspective, and if my memory serves, you'd need about 100 LFR runs to match the expected gear you'd get from a single normal run. Likewise for normal vs heroic and heroic vs mythic.

No. My argument in this case is just a fact.

You said that LFR could require more effort than heroic? Then why people are still doing LFR? Are they stupid? Don't be ridiculous. Heroic raiding requires MUCH more than LFR. LFR just takes time, nothing more. You're being spoon-feeded there from the start to the end. You don't even need to talk with anyone, you can just click on the LFG tool, wait a moment, join the boss, kill the boss, that's all. And even if you wipe you're still getting the buff for wiping, which is totally laughable.
That "argument" is a total senseless garbage.

And about another imaginary statistics you're trying to use as an argument: it's RNG. You won't be able to predict entirely how many runs would it take to get normal ilvl.
Anyway, it still doesn't matter because some items are better and some are don't. Don't tell me that people weren't farming LFR NH for the Elisande/Gul'dan trinkets. Even mythic players were doing that, wasting their time to carry lowbies so they could have a small chance of getting an upgrade. That system was stupid to the beyond.

Honestly, the intent was never to create an endless grind. It was an option, and the probabilities involved were never that difficult to figure out. If stupid people chose to grind endlessly simply because the chance existed, they deserved all the suffering they got. That is no reason to punish every other player out there.

If stupid players choose to play low effort content, they don't serderve higher gear. Simple.
There's no reason to punish other good players that are trying their best to force them to do endless grind.

First of all, learn to read. I said 1 in a million. That is based on a 20% chance of having a 5 ilevel proc, and a repeated 20% chance for each extra proc. It's close enough to 1 in a million when you look at going from LFR to mythic (9 procs).

Imaginary statistics once again!

As I wrote above, these problems are originated by stupid players who don't understand statistics, lack the self control to regulate how much time they spend in the game and what content they choose to participate in, and lack the ability to recognise and correct their own faults, insisting instead on finding something else to blame.

And as I wrote above... LFR/low M+ doesn't deserve high ilvl gear if they don't do harder content.
Special snowflakes will always try to do some mental-gymnastics to justify their lust for getting a special treatment and random high ilvl drops though they cannot even socialize and put some effort in a video game.

People didn't get high ilvl (ie average ilvl) if they weren't good enough. Period. Those problems you're imagining didn't exist.

Yeah, I was able skip almost one level of dissiculty just with TF/WF gear.
Plenty of people with higher ilvl/gear-score wanted to apply to the content they weren't prepared for, and that's a fact. Such a thing is even happening now, it was happening before but more often because of WF/TF.

That is bullshit. Utter bullshit.

While it is true that the competitive mythic guilds would run heroic, this did not extend to normal and LFR. The simple fact here is that for a mythic guild to be competitive, they need to compete in time and effort with other mythic guilds. This has nothing to do with game or system design, but it is an inherent to the nature of it being a competitive activity. And the best mythic guilds will figure out the best way to spend that time in order to see a gear improvement. And it goes without saying that there are much worse things that a mythic guild could do with their extra time than farming the current on heroic each week.

People were doing LFR/Normal raid in the Nighthold.
...and that's a fact. I don't care if you're just too uninformed.

That's a fallacy. Burnout isn't caused by the amount of available content. It's caused by player competitiveness. Blizzard tried for years to regulate the amount of content that a character would be allowed to do in a set amount of time before they realised it was pointless. Because a player will always be able to find a way to spend more time trying to gain a little bit more of an advantage. This is why it is better to create a game without an upper limit of how much time/effort you can put in, and control the system by means of diminishing returns, allowing the players to choose for themselves where to draw the line.

It's caused by forcing people to endless grind for some kind of upgrade. Plenty of people are playing WoW to get better results, plenty of people are trying to do every content possible to actually perform the best.
WF/TF would even make competitiveness WORSE.

Yeah, you need to stop worrying about this. It's not a healthy attitude.

Yes it is. Thinking that you deserve better than others while putting the same effort is a mental-health problem.

lol! You seem to miss the irony in that I was basically taking my cue from what you wrote. You've just rolled your eyes at yourself. Hahaha

Yeah, irony. The best argument in a discussion.

Cool story bro, but honestly, I don't really buy it. You're either exaggerating about the amount of gear you obtained, or you're concealing how you really got your gear. Because if you were doing the same amount of normal raiding as they were doing heroic, the number of TF you would have got would be comparable to the amount of TF they would have got and the gear difference would have remained pretty much static. And don't even pretend you got a bunch of heroic gear from LFR because, statistically it would only be contributing 1% to your gear. You'd have been lucky to get even 1 drop from there that actually counted.

Imaginary statistics once again!

lol. Of course it's effort.

Not that same as actually learning how to play properly.
A monkey who smash 2 rocks for a long time shouldn't receive even once paycheck of someone who's projecting engines.

This is such a cringeworthy analogy that speaks to your character as a human being that I don't even know where to begin. But I'll entertain it just to show you the flaw in your thinking:

Let's assume that because capitalism, the rocket scientist deserves 100 times the amount of pay as the street sweeper. Both take their pay and spend it on lottery tickets. Either could win the jackpot (mythic item), but it goes without saying that the rocket scientist will win a lot more than the street sweeper.

The lottery analogy is even worse. The mythic raider and the LFR player isn't even putting the same effort as people who are buying prize tickets. You cannot really compare it that way lol

Growing more powerful is a major characteristic of the rpg genre. You get more powerful, defeat stronger challenges, gain more power. It's the entire point of the game.

Yes, that's obvious. But that only comes with effort.
Grinding? Of course.
Playing better? Of course.
Having a RANDOM chance of getting stronger?

TF/WF RNG items are RNG.

You've got some serious issues with other players being bad. Maybe focus on yourself and stop concerning yourself about the rest of us. Thanks.

It's just because they want free welfare items because they aren't capable of putting some effort in the game.

You keep trying to make this argument as though this is somehow the norm. Truth is it was incredibly rare. And even when it did happen, it's not like it made a material difference to anything.

The point was always the same though. TF meant that everyone, including LFR players, would get a bit more gear out content they were doing over time.

I just say that they shouldn't. If they want high ilvl gear, then they should do normal.
How hard it's to comprehend that if someone needs better gear they should do harder content and put some effort? It's pretty simple.

TF never made a difference to this. I don't see why you think it's relevant.

I written about it above.

Then you haven't been paying attention (which is hardly surprising)
- I don't want to feel like content I enjoy is pointless once I have the gear from it
- If my guild is struggling on a boss, we can keep on farming the instance diligently (while also working on the boss) with the knowledge that we'll get a few gear upgrades that can help us
- I don't need to feel like I must avoid content simply because there is no possibility of a gear upgrade

-If you don't want to feel like the content you've done is pointless then do harder content. Simple.
-If your guild is struggling with the boss, then players are the problem. Simple
-If you need to have the possiblity of gear upgrade, then play harder content and put some effort instead of counting for some free welfare. Simple

Says the person whose entire argument is predicated around not seeing the bigger at all (eg focussing on the one in 50 000 players who had a single mythic item from LFR and ignoring the 49999 who didn't)

Imaginary statistics strikes once again!

I don't really care either way. It just saddens me that, once again, stupidity won the day. That is never a good thing. And if you're being honest, are you actually any happier now? I mean I know you're happy that this system is gone, but if your post is anything to go by you're just as miserable as you were before TF appeared, when it was here, and as you'll be 10 years from now.

Going personal because you cannot really find any usefull arguments others than "Uh oH I NeEd mY FrEe ItEmZ!" just because you aren't capable of actually doing harder content?
If I, the person who wants simple effort-reward system, am miserable... then I don't even want to know who people like you are who think they deserve special treatment and profits for doing the same as others. Special snow-flakes in their full glory. Pathetic

No, Blizzard is and they removed it as a failed system. You can look back at all the posts about it on the forums at the frustration the system caused.

Effort involved in LFR does not equal difficulty. You're rewards are based on difficulty of the content, not the fact you turned up for 10m.

I think that guy is out of touch. Totally clueless and uneducated.

[TheramoreIsTheBomb]

Gross. No thank you. Keep valor instead and just bring back justice points... add a token in when you dont get loot. 3 token per dungeon completed. 3 tokens = 15 tokens. Any neck or rings for 15 tokens. Any armor piece you want for 25 tokens. Trinkets 20 tokens. Weapons 30 tokens.

[kamuimac]

I mean that there could be stripped out restrictions for M+ upgrades and the valor cap lowered(so LFR/low M+ people wouldn't have 1 mythic item every second week). But more like 1 item per month.



The challenges in this games are the main progress. People need better gear to do harder contents. LFR player don't need it.
Ilvl isn't something which should be progressable, because that's a pure fallacy. 239ilvl heroic item with Shards are stronger for raiding than 252ilvl items with bis stats.



Not really +15 and higher is the highest progress for the M+ players that need the gear.
All the levels above are just challenges that can give you higher score and portals.



As long as you did every challenge you wanted - you're free to go and play something else.
If you think that WF/TF would be a good reason to stay, while you've reached your goals already, then you're the problem. You just need a carrot on a stick to play the game, the false feeling of progress while in fact - you don't need that gear.
What for? It would give you an advantage for... literally nothing.



You can always try to score higher and have better logs.
That's the main problem with WF/TF - it's not making people better. Good players with BIS items will always beat the bad players with BIS items.
If you need a RANDOM CASINO WELFARE to keep your subscription on, then I guess you should try other game or just do something else.

all your adviced end up with "play for chalenge" or "go play something else"

guess what milions of players did exackly that

because wow doesnt offer them any reason to play

back in Legion those people kept playing because every single activity in game could give them rewards.

i get it - you are happy with being able to just raid log - but milions / majority arent .

- - - Updated - - -

Don't forget the mandatory "FFXIV is better"

It's just relocating the core issue to a higher number.

its objective fact that FF14 has much more players then wow atm

tis objective fact that even during their ocntent lul they kept getting between 100-200k subs each consective month

its objective fact that their new expansion is coming which will make game go into full "blooming" mode

its objective fact that after november 23rd each prominent streamer will play FF14 which will bring them milions more players.

so yes - FF14 is doing something better then wow atm .

you cannot discuss with facts.

and facts are wow is not a game for casuals anymore only for entitled elitest toxic players.

and thats why wow is on verge of complete meltdown/collapse

and i say it from persective of someone whose last entire guild swapped to FF!4 literaly in middle of sylvanas hc progress - we started at 20 and 21:15 people said f.... it we want to do something else - and reloged to FF!4 - and whose new guild only raid log because when they dont raid mythic they play FF14/

and those are my objective facts.

[Twdft]

and those are my objective facts.

You should start citing your sources, all I see is incoherent rambling.

[Eazy]

all your adviced end up with "play for chalenge" or "go play something else"

guess what milions of players did exackly that

because wow doesnt offer them any reason to play

back in Legion those people kept playing because every single activity in game could give them rewards.

i get it - you are happy with being able to just raid log - but milions / majority arent .

That's a false. You cannot provide any reliable data to prove your point. Stop ridiculing yourself. There were plenty of threads on official forum where people were frustrated with the TF/WF.

If people left the game because they wanted free items, then that's a good thing. I don't really wanna play a welfare casino with parasites that aren't capable of putting some effort(aka pulling their weight, learning the classes/bosses, reading for a few minutes how to improve, socialize with others).

If WF/TF was the only reason why they played, then they were just baddies addicted to the game. Expecting a free above average reward for doing the same thing all over again(while in fact they don't really need it, what's the point of getting mythic ilvl items for LFR/low M+ if you aren't capable of reading about your class and boss tactics for normal?).

You should start citing your sources, all I see is incoherent rambling.

Pretty sure he's trolling.

[Huzzaa]

current system failed completly as nearly all players left game to play something else

only ones supporting current system are those benefiting from it direckly - aka top 1 % .

game is in abysmal bad state - m+ are completly dead below +15 keys and nothign is even suggesting that devs want to improve it

9.1.5 will be best proof of it.

and no - this is not just bashing game

have you tried keys like 10-14 lately ? not only there are next to none of them outside of 19-22 but also people there fail complelty - its extremly bad and unfun gameplay

game is basicly dead below 15 keys .

Yeah, no content might be an issue.

But no bro, it's the 1%.

Where have we heard that before.

[kamuimac]

How much time and EFFORT - yes, if someone wants upgrades, then he should put some effort and do the harder content instead of praying to RNG Gods to get a RANDOM upgrade that won't be really needed for an LFR hero.

the irony when someone is bashing lfr players and at this same time claims 2100 is good score couple of posts above.

simply delicious

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If WF/TF was the only reason why they played, then they were just baddies addicted to the game. Expecting a free above average reward for doing the same thing all over again(while in fact they don't really need it, what's the point of getting mythic ilvl items for LFR/low M+ if you aren't capable of reading about your class and boss tactics for normal?).

.

but for them it clearly was the only reason why they played game

now that this reason is gone they are gone as well.

are you gonna deny this fact ?

im mean we all can pretend it didnt happen - but it did

the same as it did happen in wod when they removed VP vendors and upgrades - and suddenly puff milions of players were gone 3 months into expansio n

and blizzard didnt solve that issue back then untill they introduced m+ next expansion which literaly gave reason for hundreds of thousands to still play wow - and surpirse surpise - people didnt leave game right after launch

imagine where wow would be now if it wasnt for m+ ?

exackly the same is with TF

they did experiment with SL - it failed again completly and utterly and without doubt they will rectify it in 10.0

but thats year away . and they need to take actions right now.

[Eazy]

the irony when someone is bashing lfr players and at this same time claims 2100 is good score couple of posts above.

simply delicious

Comparing people who are doing LFR to people who are doing +15M?

Anyway, I just did check out r.io score and people with >2100 are in the first 227,383 group of characters, while the worst ones are at 1,914,816(and that from people who EVER did any M+, keep in mind that there are people playing this game who didn't even step into M+), which mean that they're in the TOP ~12%.

And you were saying that they are "VERY LOW", which implies that you have some kind of complex and you have to show your elitism(while not even posting your r.io )... or you just lack basic knowledge and don't know simple maths.

but for them it clearly was the only reason why they played game

now that this reason is gone they are gone as well.

Then they should play other game or put some effort instead of expecting to get free loot.

imagine where wow would be now if it wasnt for m+ ?

exackly the same is with TF

they did experiment with SL - it failed again completly and utterly and without doubt they will rectify it in 10.0

but thats year away . and they need to take actions right now.

You're now comparing TF to M+?

You're either trolling or there's something wrong with you

[rrayy]

No, Blizzard is and they removed it as a failed system. You can look back at all the posts about it on the forums at the frustration the system caused.

Effort involved in LFR does not equal difficulty. You're rewards are based on difficulty of the content, not the fact you turned up for 10m.

Removing it does not mean it was a failed system. Forum posts also =- minority of player base.None of that means Blizzard was rigbt to remove it or means Blizzard wiill never bring it back It just means a small group of elitist were able to scream loud enough to get Blizzard's attention.

And again, you are getting a full set in mythic in a few weeks. LFR people would be lucky to get even one piece during the entire run of the LFR cycle. It does not hurt the elitists one iota except their incessant need to feel superior.

[kamuimac]

Anyway, I just did check out r.io score and people with >2100 are in the first 227,383 group of characters, while the worst ones are at 1,914,816(and that from people who EVER did any M+, keep in mind that there are people playing this game who didn't even step into M+), which mean that they're in the TOP ~12%.

its hillarious how for 10 pages you keep belittleing bashing and ridiculoung "guys who dont want to git gud" yet you accuse me of elitism
just pure joy reading you mate

[Eazy]

its hillarious how for 10 pages you keep belittleing bashing and ridiculoung "guys who dont want to git gud" yet you accuse me of elitism
just pure joy reading you mate

Not ridiculing anyone, just saying that people who don't put effort, shouldn't get highest possible reward from the game. Simple as that, while you're saying that 2,1k r.io score is "very low", which in fact, is false and wrong.
All your arguments were precisely countered and destroyed.

There was no elitism at all in anything I've ever wrote in this thread. Wanting to have a fair system, that rewards people according to their effort is just pure justice.
My comments have been called elitist only from people who are think that they deserve better reward than others for doing the same thing. It's totally different thing. They're just egocentrics with a victim syndrome. They feel like they should get more, while using the argument that it won't hurt the other people. It doesn't even matter if it does or not.
What matter, is that they aren't capable of pulling their weight and still expect to get better items for doing the same thing all over again. Parasites who think they deserve more simply by being a player and paying the same price as the others.
That's simply pathetic.

[kamuimac]

Not ridiculing anyone, just saying that people who don't put effort, shouldn't get highest possible reward from the game. Simple as that, while you're saying that 2,1k r.io score is "very low", which in fact, is false and wrong.
All your arguments were precisely countered and destroyed.
.

there is around 40k chars around world who have +/- 2400 score

there is around 120k chars around world who have +/- 2150 score .

so yes - 2100 is done by significantly more people then 2400 .

so yes it is "low" score if you want to rate people by whether they are good or bad.

funny part is yu try to defend it as a good score because most likely thats the score that you do have.

its day like everyday in wow - everyone even 1 point lower then someone is total piece of .... - anyone even 1 point above is nolifer - but you are the only one who is hardcore enough to be rewarded

its complete hipocrisy on your part

and you didnt destroy anything because you are 100 % wrong

[crazyman2]

Biggest issue with Titanforging is the issues it creates with tuning.
They overtuned the hell out of legion bosses and some 8.0-8.2 bosses because the raid's ilvl would have been higher than the base ilvl. A situation where like the one my guild was in when progressing on Mythic Ashvane - average raid ilvl is over 440, held back by a few trashcans that were longtime raiders/friends, and we can't get any gear upgrades without praying for TF. I liked 9.0 raiding - the gear was harder to come by, but the bosses were much easier when you did eventually gear up.

Personally, I'd rather see TF come back, and mythic raiding made easier. Maybe leave as is at the start until kills have been achieved, and then have more frequent, but less impactful nerfs to raid content.

[Eazy]

there is around 40k chars around world who have +/- 2400 score

there is around 120k chars around world who have +/- 2150 score .

so yes - 2100 is done by significantly more people then 2400 .

so yes it is "low" score if you want to rate people by whether they are good or bad.

lmao, you wrote that 2100 is "VERY LOW", it seems you have no idea what are you talking about.

funny part is yu try to defend it as a good score because most likely thats the score that you do have.

I have higher, but I am not too uneducated enough to say that TOP ~12% players are VERY LOW.

its day like everyday in wow - everyone even 1 point lower then someone is total piece of .... - anyone even 1 point above is nolifer - but you are the only one who is hardcore enough to be rewarded

What the hell are you talking about?
It's just that normal raiders should get normal ilvl, LFR raiders LFR ilvl etc?
How that is connecting to the "anyone even 1 point above is nolifer - but you are the only one who is hardcore enough to be rewarded "

its complete hipocrisy on your part

and you didnt destroy anything because you are 100 % wrong

All of your examples were totally off-topic, in a discussion about TF/WF you came with "but I have higher r.io" argument. You either lack reading comprehension or you are trolling.

[Twdft]

there is around 40k chars around world who have +/- 2400 score

there is around 120k chars around world who have +/- 2150 score .

so yes - 2100 is done by significantly more people then 2400 .

so yes it is "low" score if you want to rate people by whether they are good or bad.

And there are about 1.7 million chars below 2100 so what the fuck you talkin' aboot?

[Poppincaps]

I swear to god I hate WoW players man. I honestly feel bad for Blizzard, they do one thing and people bitch, then they fix it and suddenly a bunch of people come out of the woodworks saying how they shouldn't have fixed the problem in the first place.

Instead of endlessly grinding for a low chance to get an RNG upgrade, how about you go play another game or do anything else with your life once you get BIS? Your performance in raid should be based on your skill, not that you go lucky and rolled a weapon that's 10 item levels higher with a socket.

[kamuimac]

And there are about 1.7 million chars below 2100 so what the fuck you talkin' aboot?

that included alts that barely did naything

around 1k score you have 500k chars. and 1k is like no score this season .

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All of your examples were totally off-topic, in a discussion about TF/WF you came with "but I have higher r.io" argument. You either lack reading comprehension or you are trolling.

no its you who started toxic trolling of "only good players " deserve rewards and i proven you are not so hardcore yourself so you have 0 reason bashing bad players when you are not so hot shot yourself even htough you think you are but one who wants to deprave others of upgrades just because they are lower scored then you are.

[Eazy]

no its you who started toxic trolling of "only good players " deserve rewards

I didn't say that. Learn how to read properly. I said that only people who pull their weight should get the reward according to their effort.

and i proven you are not so hardcore yourself

You haven't proven anything, lmao.

Even if I was a normal raider, that wouldn't change my arguments. You think that only mythic raiders should have voice?

you have 0 reason bashing bad players

I am not bashing anyone. I am just saying that some people are not putting enough effort to expect higher reward.

you are not so hot shot yourself even htough you think you are

Even if, then it doesn't prove anything or make my arguments less valuable.

you are but one who wants to deprave others of upgrades just because they are lower scored then you are.

I didn't say anything like that.

So, to summarize:
You have clearly problems with your imaginary assumptions and with reading comprehension.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯

And there are about 1.7 million chars below 2100 so what the fuck you talkin' aboot?

He's 100% trolling or too obtuse to realize what are we talking about.

[rrayy]

I didn't say that. Learn how to read properly. I said that only people who pull their weight should get the reward according to their effort.

And you are. YOu are able to get a full mythic set. LFR players would be lucky to get one piece. Reward is given toards effort.

You haven't proven anything, lmao.

Neither have you, except wnat to lord your superiority over everyone else.

Even if I was a normal raider, that wouldn't change my arguments. You think that only mythic raiders should have voice?

You only want you to have a voice since oyu are trying to be sole dictator over how the game should be.

I am not bashing anyone. I am just saying that some people are not putting enough effort to expect higher reward.

But they are putting in the effort. Running LFR week after week after week for a very low shot at top gear is putting enough effort to expect one piece of higher reward.

[tomten]

Sounds to me a lot like FOMO. You want everyone to get exactly the same rewards, and be clones of each other. I cannot imagine anything more boring. This is why I see RNG as a good thing: It forces us, as individuals, to play the hand we are dealt. Sometimes we get lucky and get to own the meters in spite of there being other, better players than us. Other times we have to let someone else take the limelight.

If everyone had exactly the same gear then the truth about exactly how good we are would be laid bare for ALL to see. And I honestly don't believe that most players could handle that truth. By having some RNG in the mix we can never know exactly where we stand, and 19 out of 20 players in a raid won't have to face up to the fact that they are second rate next to the one star.

That has to be the most stupid argument i've ever read in entire mmo history... "luck should decide who owns the meters in spite of there being better skilled players"... Holy shit, no...
And you completely ignore that TF invalidates heroic raiding and thats why it was removed and rightfully so and it will never return, thankfully so

And people handle it just fine, i think you've created that illusion in your head because the copium is strong in you.