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  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Gehco View Post
    Worshipping the Old Gods does not mean you can't be a Paladin. The Scarlet Crusade already depicted that with blood, terror, and questionable acts, even they can wield the light, as light is apparently some shit the offers the ones with enough belief, the power.
    Erm, no. The Scarlet Crusade nonsense really shouldn't be taken seriously. It makes no sense whatsoever. The Scarlet Crusade is functionally no different from all of the other templar orders in Warcraft, be it the Silver Hand, the Argent Dawn, or the Argent Crusade. They're all Light worshipping military orders made up of EK races that crusade against the Undead. The only difference between the Scarlets and the Argents is that Blizzard arbitrarily decided that the Scarlets are mob fodder while the Argents aren't. This creates a huge plothole in the lore, because in the Tirion Fordring short story, he couldn't use the Light when he believed he had violated tenets of his faith. If that carried over to WoW than the Scarlets would have no powers whatsoever. It's contradictory canon that cannot be reconciled at all because it just wasn't thought out, and it should be disregarded.

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Council View Post
    didnt blizzard update the sun walker lore slightly in BFA to make them true paladins?
    When did that happen?

  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Val the Moofia Boss View Post
    Taurens. Are. Not. Paladins! We do not worship the Light! We worship An'she! We are Sun Druids! We are only categorized as Paladins for gameplay purposes, because creating another heavy armor, magic wielding class just for Tauren would be unacceptable.

    Sunwalkers have been done dirty by WoW. Our lore was laid out in Wrath and then was never further explored. Our one notable NPC hasn't gotten any focus since MoP, was dressed in Light worshipping Silver Hand armor, and was shoved into the Silver Hand's class order hall in Legion when he had no business being there. I think him being dressed up in Silver Hand armor and being shoved into their class order hall has really confused people's perception of what Sunwalkers are. We really need unique Sunwalker armor and a class skin to change our abilities to be more reflective of what our lore actually is.

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    I don't know where you got the idea that the Light and An'she were ever the same thing. An'she is connected to Elune and the Earth Mother, which is a completely separate cosmology than the Light.
    Incorrect. Sun druid misconception began because Tahu was a druid but overlooks the theological discussion between him and Aponi about how Elune is worshipped by the night elves but no similar religion for An'she to strike a balance. Aponi also worked with the Argent Crusade so it was obvious the way they were going with this. They both use the Light through the faith in An'she. There are priests of the old gods who use the light. Priests of fire. Shivarra priests even. You can have faith in anything regardless of cosmology and still use the Light as long as there is strong faith.

    They continue this in Legion where they did get a story continuation for Sunwalkers it just didn't fit the fan narrative of "sun druid" that didn't actually exist.

    A common gossip text when talking to Aponi:
    Every day I learn more about the Light and its purpose in this world. And yet, I am still so far from the truth.
    What she says upon becoming a follower:
    Aponi Brightmane says: The Light will guide my hand, Highlord.
    What she says in the quest itself of becoming a follower:
    Highlord, I owe you my life and my thanks. You live by the Light, as my Sunwalkers believe.
    https://www.wowhead.com/quest=43492/...oni-brightmane

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Val the Moofia Boss View Post



    When did that happen?
    i am trying to remember the exact words and where/when it was said.
    i think the comment/answer was saying that all paladins basically function the same way regardless on where they get the light from.
    Anemo: traveler, Sucrose
    Pyro: Yanfei, Amber, diluc, xiangling, thoma, Xinyan, Bennett
    Geo: Noelle, Ningguang, Yun Jin, Gorou
    Hydro: Barbara, Zingqiu, Ayato
    Cyro: Shenhe, Kaeya, Chongyun, Diona, Ayaka, Rosaria
    Electro: Fischl, Lisa, Miko, Kujou, Raiden, Razor

  4. #24
    Worgen need an unarmed/Fist based class. Ridiculous that Monks and Shamans are like the only class they can't play as, especially considering the heavy Wolf themes on Shaman


    Pandaren Druid would be a nice have too for Panda Bear tanks.

  5. #25
    The Insane Syegfryed's Avatar
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    yes to zandalari warlock, as they exist and is simple

    obviously no for the other, is stupid

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Syegfryed View Post
    yes to zandalari warlock, as they exist and is simple

    obviously no for the other, is stupid
    if you are talking about the Zandalari demoniac or whatever they are called. they are more like demon hunters.
    Anemo: traveler, Sucrose
    Pyro: Yanfei, Amber, diluc, xiangling, thoma, Xinyan, Bennett
    Geo: Noelle, Ningguang, Yun Jin, Gorou
    Hydro: Barbara, Zingqiu, Ayato
    Cyro: Shenhe, Kaeya, Chongyun, Diona, Ayaka, Rosaria
    Electro: Fischl, Lisa, Miko, Kujou, Raiden, Razor

  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Yehaw View Post
    "Void" High elves could finally live out their fantasy of being a true High Elf champion of the Light.

    Zandalari trolls can use a darker flair class option.

    Also, unlock Worgen and Goblin Monks
    What's with the obsession with High Elf Paladins? Like when they have been even a thing to trigger such obsession?

  8. #28
    The Insane Syegfryed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Council View Post
    if you are talking about the Zandalari demoniac or whatever they are called. they are more like demon hunters.
    no, there are zandalari warlocks in vol'dun, one of then is a rare mob

  9. #29
    Merely a Setback Kaleredar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gehco View Post
    Except, the Tauren Paladins actually did make sense when you look at its build up as Sunwalker.
    There was no "prior" explanation they were building on, save for a retroactive "eh sure why not" one and the fact that they were the only "morally good" enough horde race to justify giving them paladins to sort of balance out the expansion of classes.

    A paladin directly pasted on Void Elf does not make sense unless you alter the thematic look of it for them (glyph class theme, whatever) as we've already had described that lore-wise (lore =/= gameplay after all, though) Holy and Void is a no-go merge.
    There are void-elf priests, rendering that argument... fairly moot. And unlike say, orcs or goblins or whomever, void elves have a racial history of having been paladins.

    And yes, for the record, I do think they could pull off undead paladins. Especially now with Calia in charge.

    Also, there's really no reason zandalari couldn't be warlocks.
    Last edited by Kaleredar; 2021-10-03 at 05:53 AM.
    “Do not lose time on daily trivialities. Do not dwell on petty detail. For all of these things melt away and drift apart within the obscure traffic of time. Live well and live broadly. You are alive and living now. Now is the envy of all of the dead.” ~ Emily3, World of Tomorrow
    Quote Originally Posted by Wells View Post
    Kaleredar is right...
    Words to live by.

  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Val the Moofia Boss View Post
    This creates a huge plothole in the lore, because in the Tirion Fordring short story, he couldn't use the Light when he believed he had violated tenets of his faith. If that carried over to WoW than the Scarlets would have no powers whatsoever. It's contradictory canon that cannot be reconciled at all because it just wasn't thought out, and it should be disregarded.
    Not sure how this is contradictory. You yourself said it; Tirion lost the use of the Light because he believed he broke his faith's tenets but why would the Scarlet Crusade lose their Light if they don't think they broke any tenets of their faith?

  11. #31
    The Unstoppable Force Super Kami Dende's Avatar
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    We already have Holy Priest Forsaken in WoW which lorewise use Shadow Magic. So any argument that Void Elf couldn't just be "Void Knights" but use the Paladin mechanics gameplay wise is pointless.

  12. #32
    The Unstoppable Force Super Kami Dende's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Val the Moofia Boss View Post
    his creates a huge plothole in the lore, because in the Tirion Fordring short story, he couldn't use the Light when he believed he had violated tenets of his faith. If that carried over to WoW than the Scarlets would have no powers whatsoever. It's contradictory canon that cannot be reconciled at all because it just wasn't thought out, and it should be disregarded.
    Incorrect. Because Scarlets have absolute faith in what they are doing is righteous. Hence Fanatics. Tirion simply lost his faith, thus cucked himself in his powers of the Light.

  13. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by The Council View Post
    if you are talking about the Zandalari demoniac or whatever they are called. they are more like demon hunters.
    I'd much rather see zandalari demoniacs/demon hunters implemented than warlocks (along with orc/draenei demon hunters)

  14. #34
    Just remove restrictions in general. Pointless to adhere strictly to lore when the lore changes on a whim anyhow.

  15. #35
    Merely a Setback Kaleredar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Super Kami Dende View Post
    We already have Holy Priest Forsaken in WoW which lorewise use Shadow Magic. So any argument that Void Elf couldn't just be "Void Knights" but use the Paladin mechanics gameplay wise is pointless.
    I'm fairly certain that forsaken holy/disc priests do use the light, though it is excruciatingly painful to them.
    “Do not lose time on daily trivialities. Do not dwell on petty detail. For all of these things melt away and drift apart within the obscure traffic of time. Live well and live broadly. You are alive and living now. Now is the envy of all of the dead.” ~ Emily3, World of Tomorrow
    Quote Originally Posted by Wells View Post
    Kaleredar is right...
    Words to live by.

  16. #36
    The Unstoppable Force Super Kami Dende's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kaleredar View Post
    I'm fairly certain that forsaken holy/disc priests do use the light, though it is excruciatingly painful to them.
    That was only retconned years later. All "healing" magic done via Forsaken Priests was Shadow-Mending.

  17. #37
    Stood in the Fire BB8's Avatar
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    I am up for anything new

    Everything can be justified as lore.

    Its a fantasy game, so some people should use their fantasy a bit more.

  18. #38
    Moderator Rozz's Avatar
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    My knee-jerk reaction was "no", but that quickly became a yes.

    Paladins are just heavy armor melee priests. Priests have the duality of light and void. There should absolutely be a void equivalent to the paladin class because cosmically the death knights don't fit the bill. Narratively they've been mortal enemies/opposites, but they flat out aren't a proper void counterpart to the light. I support the idea w/ NE Palidans (since the melee Priestesses and Wardens granted Elune's power are basically paladins in all but name).
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  19. #39
    Hoof Hearted!!!
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    As someone who likes the Void Elves, they would not make sense as Paladins. Much like Undead Paladins don't make sense as wielding the light would do irreparable damage to them as a being of darkness/void.
    when all else fails, read the STICKIES.

  20. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by Val the Moofia Boss View Post
    Taurens. Are. Not. Paladins! We do not worship the Light! We worship An'she! We are Sun Druids! We are only categorized as Paladins for gameplay purposes, because creating another heavy armor, magic wielding class just for Tauren would be unacceptable.

    Sunwalkers have been done dirty by WoW. Our lore was laid out in Wrath and then was never further explored. Our one notable NPC hasn't gotten any focus since MoP, was dressed in Light worshipping Silver Hand armor, and was shoved into the Silver Hand's class order hall in Legion when he had no business being there. I think him being dressed up in Silver Hand armor and being shoved into their class order hall has really confused people's perception of what Sunwalkers are. We really need unique Sunwalker armor and a class skin to change our abilities to be more reflective of what our lore actually is.

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    I don't know where you got the idea that the Light and An'she were ever the same thing. An'she is connected to Elune and the Earth Mother, which is a completely separate cosmology than the Light.
    It doesn't matter, because for game purposes it's labelled "Paladin".

    Why can't the same be done for Ren'dorei "Paladins"? They can be a Void counterpart of Paladin, like "Riftblade"; while still being labelled as such in-game.

    No one is asking for the Ren'dorei to be actual Paladins, like Uther and Tirion. Holy champions of the Light. Obviously not. We use that term because the "Paladin" is the label given to the in-game class.

    But what we want and like those pics showed you, is a Void counterpart of the Paladin. A holy warrior of the Void, who siphons energies from the Dark Naaru.

    And no doubt this would require a rework and reskin of several existing Paladin abilities.
    Last edited by Varodoc; 2021-10-03 at 08:38 AM.

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