Poll: Do you support Blizzard removing the emotes, jokes, flirts, names, images and more?

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  1. #321
    Void Lord Elegiac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by starstationprofm View Post
    Just because they claim it's reality doesn't mean it is. There is no proof this is true. I already pointed out that if they use polls they can easily be trolled and if they use CC holders then a lot of people use their mom's credit card.
    Cool: by that same logic, how do you know there weren't just a whole bunch of women who never shared that fact with you for fear of facing harassment?
    Quote Originally Posted by Marjane Satrapi
    The world is not divided between East and West. You are American, I am Iranian, we don't know each other, but we talk and understand each other perfectly. The difference between you and your government is much bigger than the difference between you and me. And the difference between me and my government is much bigger than the difference between me and you. And our governments are very much the same.

  2. #322
    High Overlord Larodar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheramoreIsTheBomb View Post
    What's next? The rating changed from T to E10?
    Night Elf female's dance is too suggestive for this new trend, is that the next one to be removed?

  3. #323
    Quote Originally Posted by Elegiac View Post
    Cool: by that same logic, how do you know there weren't just a whole bunch of women who never shared that fact with you for fear of facing harassment?
    Because I voiced with those people all the time.

  4. #324
    Quote Originally Posted by starstationprofm View Post
    Because I voiced with those people all the time.
    And I voiced with the ladies in my guild twice a week for over a decade. And our raid team and guild was 50% females. And yet you immediately reject that because it "can't be proven". Well, if we are playing that game, I flatout reject your claim about your own experience, because you cannot prove it. Instead, I submit that your raid team and guild was 75% female.

  5. #325
    Void Lord Elegiac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by starstationprofm View Post
    Because I voiced with those people all the time.
    You voiced with everyone you interacted with in WoW, hm? Chances are that's not a big sample size then.

    Also: just because you claim it's reality, doesn't mean it is.
    Quote Originally Posted by Marjane Satrapi
    The world is not divided between East and West. You are American, I am Iranian, we don't know each other, but we talk and understand each other perfectly. The difference between you and your government is much bigger than the difference between you and me. And the difference between me and my government is much bigger than the difference between me and you. And our governments are very much the same.

  6. #326
    Quote Originally Posted by Elegiac View Post
    You voiced with everyone you interacted with in WoW, hm? Chances are that's not a big sample size.

    Also: just because you claim it's reality, doesn't mean it is.
    I would expect we interact with a fraction of 1% of the playerbase. I even said my personal experience does not equal that of others - I doubt many guilds are even close to 50% female. But that doesn't change the fact my guild had roughly 35 females, with between 10 and 15 being in the raid team at any one time.

    Typical of most raid teams? Nah, probably not, highly unlikely. Was it my reailty and theirs? Absolutely.

  7. #327
    Void Lord Elegiac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by arkanon View Post
    I would expect we interact with a fraction of 1% of the playerbase. I even said my personal experience does not equal that of others - I doubt many guilds are even close to 50% female. But that doesn't change the fact my guild had roughly 35 females, with between 10 and 15 being in the raid team at any one time.

    Typical of most raid teams? Nah, probably not, highly unlikely. Was it my reailty and theirs? Absolutely.
    Not to mention the self-selection factor in a lot of these social groups, even if inadvertent.

    Personally, I have no idea why women playing video games wouldn't want to interact with people who insist women don't play video games. /s
    Quote Originally Posted by Marjane Satrapi
    The world is not divided between East and West. You are American, I am Iranian, we don't know each other, but we talk and understand each other perfectly. The difference between you and your government is much bigger than the difference between you and me. And the difference between me and my government is much bigger than the difference between me and you. And our governments are very much the same.

  8. #328
    Quote Originally Posted by Elegiac View Post
    You voiced with everyone you interacted with in WoW, hm? Chances are that's not a big sample size then.

    Also: just because you claim it's reality, doesn't mean it is.
    I don't have to. If you take 1000 people randomly and they're 900 dudes and 100 women, why would I assume that when taking 1 million it's going to be different? After all, no statistic related to humans counts the whole population.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Elegiac View Post

    Also: just because you claim it's reality, doesn't mean it is.
    I have no reason to lie. MMO makers have reasons to lie since everyone brags about having minorities included nowadays.

    " Woah gaming is 50% female guys! " -- survey that considers people who play poker on their phone 20 minutes a week ''gamers''

  9. #329
    Quote Originally Posted by Larodar View Post
    Night Elf female's dance is too suggestive for this new trend, is that the next one to be removed?
    nah alexstrasza and the succubus will be covered up next. orc, night elf, and gnome female dance are afterwards.
    "You know you that bitch when you cause all this conversation."

  10. #330
    Void Lord Elegiac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by starstationprofm View Post
    I don't have to. If you take 1000 people randomly and they're 900 dudes and 100 women, why would I assume that when taking 1 million it's going to be different?
    Statistical significance is a thing, for starters. As is confirmation bias.

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    Quote Originally Posted by starstationprofm View Post
    I have no reason to lie.
    Didn't say you did. What I said was that if you can dismiss video game company statistics based on "there could be errors in the counting process", we get to dismiss your 'statistics' for the same reason.
    Quote Originally Posted by Marjane Satrapi
    The world is not divided between East and West. You are American, I am Iranian, we don't know each other, but we talk and understand each other perfectly. The difference between you and your government is much bigger than the difference between you and me. And the difference between me and my government is much bigger than the difference between me and you. And our governments are very much the same.

  11. #331
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    Quote Originally Posted by starstationprofm View Post
    I have no reason to lie. MMO makers have reasons to lie since everyone brags about having minorities included nowadays.
    Read the famitsu article (google translate is good enough to get the general idea), because they mention the gender ratios for several games and most of them are indeed male dominated. MHF(Monster Hunter Freedom) had about a 9-1 male to female ratio, DDON(Dragon's Dogma Online) was about 8-2, and FF14 was about 7-3 (with there being an exception in the Korean region, in which over women account for over 50% of the playerbase).

    The interview even makes mention of the other developers in the interview being surprised by the FF14 ratio. It follows up by mentioning the PSO2 ratio, though I'm not sure which direction it is skewing in there because I'm relying on google translate to read it.

    Seriously, just go read the article. https://www.famitsu.com/news/201707/...81.html?page=2

    I'd recommend using Chrome to read it, since the translate option is included as part of the browser. The question about the male to female player ratio is about halfway down the article if you want to know where to look for it. Mind you the article is from 2017, DDON has shut down since then and I haven't checked for any newer numbers regarding the player ratios for the other titles listed in the interview.
    Last edited by TEHPALLYTANK; 2021-10-03 at 01:40 AM.
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  12. #332
    Quote Originally Posted by kaminaris View Post
    Of course there is. Lets even say 30% of payment options are verifiable (by name for example from CC) that is still at the very least 300 000 people. Large enough sample size to determine ratio.

    And when it comes to filling your account, yes you can say you are girl while being a dude but the moment you will have issues that requires confirmation of identity you are screwed.

    Its faaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaar more reliable than you think. I would say error margin is within +/-3%.
    I'm sorry, but the proof you've presented isn't really even proof. We don't know if they are getting those number from payments, and like I already said, thats not reliable at all. For instance, my best friend when WoW came out, his mother paid for her two sons accounts, so would that be two females tallied? Its not reliable at all, and neither are polls. I don't think I have ever heard of a media company taking gender information from payment information. Where are you even getting that margin of error?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Adamas102 View Post

    Yeah, that's not true, and it's not about caring or what parts of the game I like vs the parts I don't. It's about understanding what makes a game a game. Bugs aren't content, colors aren't content, skyboxes aren't content, tooltips aren't content, friends lists aren't content, loading screens aren't content. The list is nearly endless. Content is what gameplay activity revolves around. For WoW that mostly revolves around activities that use your character's limited range of movement and combat abilities (questing, dungeons, raids, and PVP). There are a number of menu driven minigames that Blizzard has put in the game as well, but the core of the game is moving around and attacking stuff.

    For instance, raids are content but the LFR interface is not content. The latter is just a tool that allows players to access content. If Blizzard removed the LFR grouping tool but kept the raid (difficulty, gear, etc) so that players would have to access it the same way other raids are accessed, Blizzard would not have removed any content just one of the means by which players access content. If they removed the LFR raids completely then that would be removing content since the raids themselves (including their varying difficulties) are content.

    "Content" HAS to have a definition beyond just "things in the game", or it's a completely meaningless word.
    You're comparing apples to oranges here. Emotes aren't an LFR tool. Emotes are used as a way to express yourself. While not used for PVE or PVP combat, emotes fall under things like guilds, chat, etc, things players use to express themselves. Emotes are part of the social content of the game. You are focusing very hard on trying to differentiate between "move/attack" as content and .... everything else as just menus. But there are plenty of games that don't feature combat, how exactly are those enjoyed?

    For instance, you can collect special emotes in games like Runescape, and Apex Legends. This is clearly just something you don't care about, which is fine, but others do.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MoanaLisa View Post
    People have been worried about raid gear in the store for what? Ten years? They're going to do what they're going to do and people will worry for years about whatever it is that is the current outrage. I don't care about the jokes and stuff like that although since they rarely go back and change anything stuff like the Indiana Jones parody and the Horatio Laine questline in Westfall age badly and become the stuff of cringe if left alone. I would welcome a more serious tone to the game with more focus on story and less on attempting to create cute content.
    I don't mind those kinds of corny jokes? Ban the Afrasiabi stuff sure, but whats the problem in having some corny jokes here and there? Westfall goes from that corny detective questline to dealing with homelessness and the Defias, how isn't that serious?

  13. #333
    Blizzard (and some players): "Taking /fart and /spit out is okay because such behavior does not reflect our values."



    And now, some quests where you physically torture people and make them scream.









    BONUS EDIT: "Go beat the slaves."



    Slavery? Fine.

    Beating slaves? Fine.

    Farting? UNACCEPTABLE BEHAVIOR and MORALLY REPUGNANT.
    Last edited by thottstation; 2021-10-03 at 02:56 AM.

  14. #334
    The Unstoppable Force DeltrusDisc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DazManianDevil View Post
    I guess now we'll have to settle for spamming /wince at people?
    We already /stare at people for being late to raid, I guess this will suffice.
    I'm sure they'll remove /stare.

    Ooooh, you're making me uncomfortable with how you're staring at me!
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    yeh but lava is just very hot water

  15. #335
    Quote Originally Posted by kaminaris View Post
    More like you can't wrap this around your head and understand it depends on how you use it since it's not the same as IRL. Your opinions do not affect me, the same way as It doesn't affect my ways of using emotes.

    Calling someone "fucking idiot" "dumb ass" is also intended to be offensive, yet we call out each other that constantly. It would be offensive if someone used that outside of our circle.
    Hard concept to grasp?
    Jesus, it’s like talking to a rock…

    There’s nothing difficult to grasp about using words/emotes out of their intended context. What I clearly said was that it’s IRRELEVANT.

    Your context doesn’t matter because Blizzard didn’t add the /spit emote thinking “lol kids are going to have so much fun spitting on their buddies for laughs”. They added it at a time when their devs thought it was cool to really push faction animosity both in and out of the game. They’re not so big on that now and have come to the (correct) conclusion that including emotes that were specifically designed to be antagonistic is not a good thing for the game.

    Again, the fact that you and your fiends use it as a joke DOESN’T MATTER. It’s not a hard concept to grasp, it just DOESN’T MATTER.

  16. #336
    Quote Originally Posted by Adamas102 View Post
    Jesus, it’s like talking to a rock…

    There’s nothing difficult to grasp about using words/emotes out of their intended context. What I clearly said was that it’s IRRELEVANT.

    Your context doesn’t matter because Blizzard didn’t add the /spit emote thinking “lol kids are going to have so much fun spitting on their buddies for laughs”. They added it at a time when their devs thought it was cool to really push faction animosity both in and out of the game. They’re not so big on that now and have come to the (correct) conclusion that including emotes that were specifically designed to be antagonistic is not a good thing for the game.

    Again, the fact that you and your fiends use it as a joke DOESN’T MATTER. It’s not a hard concept to grasp, it just DOESN’T MATTER.
    The same way like your opinion doesn't matter. Your conclusion is also irrelevant.

    What matters is that something that has been long in game has been removed. Humans are emotional creatures, the do get attached to smallest things. It's not hard concept to grasp. It doesn't make game better in ANY way.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lemonpartyfan View Post
    I'm sorry, but the proof you've presented isn't really even proof. We don't know if they are getting those number from payments, and like I already said, thats not reliable at all. For instance, my best friend when WoW came out, his mother paid for her two sons accounts, so would that be two females tallied? Its not reliable at all, and neither are polls. I don't think I have ever heard of a media company taking gender information from payment information. Where are you even getting that margin of error?
    That would be statistical error. I suggest to check how statistics works and why that data is reliable. Again. You don't care about precise amount. With millions of players you are bound to have a large enough sample size from both polls and payment.

    There is absolutely no fukken way that Square (or blizzard) wouldn't know their male/female ratio with +/-3% margin error. It's not even a up to a discussion. It's straight up fact.
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  17. #337
    Quote Originally Posted by Lemonpartyfan View Post
    You're comparing apples to oranges here. Emotes aren't an LFR tool. Emotes are used as a way to express yourself. While not used for PVE or PVP combat, emotes fall under things like guilds, chat, etc, things players use to express themselves. Emotes are part of the social content of the game. You are focusing very hard on trying to differentiate between "move/attack" as content and .... everything else as just menus. But there are plenty of games that don't feature combat, how exactly are those enjoyed?

    For instance, you can collect special emotes in games like Runescape, and Apex Legends. This is clearly just something you don't care about, which is fine, but others do.
    It’s not about whether I care about it or not. I don’t care about pet battles or arena, but that is game content. Nor is it about just combat since I’d call the memory and match 4 mini games from BFA WQ’s content as well (trivial by WoW standards, but gaming content nonetheless).

    Emotes are indeed a way to express yourself but they aren’t game content because there’s no gameplay value to expressing yourself via emotes in WoW.

    Imagine if the next expansion was advertised as jam packed with “content” and it was nothing but emotes and loading screens. No quests, no dungeons, no raids, no zones, just like 5,000 new emotes and 200 new loading screens (with more game tips!). Would you say “well, not really my thing but that is indeed a lot of new WoW content” as you might if it were like 15 new full raids and you weren’t that into raiding.

  18. #338
    Quote Originally Posted by kaminaris View Post
    The same way like your opinion doesn't matter. Your conclusion is also irrelevant.

    What matters is that something that has been long in game has been removed. Humans are emotional creatures, the do get attached to smallest things. It's not hard concept to grasp. It doesn't make game better in ANY way.

    - - - Updated - - -



    That would be statistical error. I suggest to check how statistics works and why that data is reliable. Again. You don't care about precise amount. With millions of players you are bound to have a large enough sample size from both polls and payment.

    There is absolutely no fukken way that Square (or blizzard) wouldn't know their male/female ratio with +/-3% margin error. It's not even a up to a discussion. It's straight up fact.
    Again, how would they get that? Payment information? I don't know about Square, but I don't see anything for gender under account details for Blizzard. Gender isn't listed on my banking account and it has an option field for Mr/Mrs etc. So where are they to suppose my gender? By my name?

    No, this data isn't reliable at all, again, because you are presupposing something based on the idea that is already faulty. The technical account owner may not even reflect the gender of the end player.

    The only other person debating this said it was a poll which is obviously flawed. You are saying its through payment information, do you have any sources on this outside of your word?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Adamas102 View Post
    It’s not about whether I care about it or not. I don’t care about pet battles or arena, but that is game content. Nor is it about just combat since I’d call the memory and match 4 mini games from BFA WQ’s content as well (trivial by WoW standards, but gaming content nonetheless).

    Emotes are indeed a way to express yourself but they aren’t game content because there’s no gameplay value to expressing yourself via emotes in WoW.

    Imagine if the next expansion was advertised as jam packed with “content” and it was nothing but emotes and loading screens. No quests, no dungeons, no raids, no zones, just like 5,000 new emotes and 200 new loading screens (with more game tips!). Would you say “well, not really my thing but that is indeed a lot of new WoW content” as you might if it were like 15 new full raids and you weren’t that into raiding.
    Of course people would be disappointed, because they is a game primarily about raiding. But as I mentioned, not all games are about raiding or dungeons. Many are social in nature, and emotes are just social content that are being removed for a poor reason. One of the things that make an MMO an MMO is the social aspect of it, its not just the killing or moving. Again, that other games make emotes collectable (some are rare and hard to get) just show these as content.

  19. #339
    I guess Blizzard just loves creating more controversy around themselves. First they just can't keep the quality up, then we have the rape fest reveal, and now they pander to a minority of players or maybe not even people playing the game while alienating their playerbase. Keep it up Blizz

  20. #340
    Quote Originally Posted by Lemonpartyfan View Post
    Again, how would they get that? Payment information? I don't know about Square, but I don't see anything for gender under account details for Blizzard. Gender isn't listed on my banking account and it has an option field for Mr/Mrs etc. So where are they to suppose my gender? By my name?

    No, this data isn't reliable at all, again, because you are presupposing something based on the idea that is already faulty. The technical account owner may not even reflect the gender of the end player.

    The only other person debating this said it was a poll which is obviously flawed. You are saying its through payment information, do you have any sources on this outside of your word?
    Do you actually have any knowledge about statistics? It really doesn't seem so.

    This really isn't up to debate. You do not need to have every single account gender assigned to know the ratio. Even polls with large enough sample size would absolutely suffice.

    There are many ways to determine gender, poll, payment information, account information etc. If game director says its 3:7 then it is 3:7.

    Not to mention it literally in the line with other statistics: http://quanticfoundry.com/2017/01/19...mers-by-genre/


    4) World of Warcraft is an Outlier Among High Fantasy MMOs.
    23% of World of Warcraft gamers are women. This is substantially lower than the group average (36%). A lot of game researchers (Nic and I included) focused on studying WoW as an exemplar of online gaming, but it looks like WoW was not only an outlier in terms of market success, but also in terms of its demographics relative to other games in the genre.
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