Blizzard to Old Fanbase: Go Away

[Shadowferal]

As has been noted ever since the game started, devoted customers and would be game designers complain that developers mostly ignore customer feedback. That's not quite true but it's generally so. It's a mistake (and frankly a little dishonest because everyone knows this) to imply that changes are made only because a customer asked for it.

No. You're being dishonest.
If you've a complaint over something you see as so egregious..something you can't ignore then why the hell are you still paying for it? People have been playing and paying for years into a game despite the omg..omg...double entendre..why?

[Th3Scourge]

You are aware that the changes are being made by request of the developers right? The people who were affected by the curb crawls and frat boy behaviour...

I can almost wholeheartedly say, after seeing the comments from the devs with 24 pronouns on twitter gloating about the changes they pushed for, that they were NOT the target of any alleged 'cube crawl'

[Cracked]

No. You're being dishonest.
If you've a complaint over something you see as so egregious..something you can't ignore then why the hell are you still paying for it? People have been playing and paying for years into a game despite the omg..omg...double entendre..why?

People complain about society all the time, yet they participate. Curious. Maybe something along your line of thought is not quite right.

[Th3Scourge]

I think your energy is better spent on actual game design issues.

Well, the same could be said for these punitive changes. The energy is better spent of fixing the actual game rather than inserting their political ideology into a fantasy game

[Yarathir]

I can almost wholeheartedly say, after seeing the comments from the devs with 24 pronouns on twitter gloating about the changes they pushed for, that they were NOT the target of any alleged 'cube crawl'

Not sure if they were the targets or victims or not, but they sure seem to enjoy weaponizing it.

[Shadowferal]

People complain about society all the time, yet they participate. Curious. Maybe something along your line of thought is not quite right.

Maybe you should reconsider your own line of thought. We're speaking of a private entity with a customer base it relies on.

[MoanaLisa]

Maybe you should reconsider your own line of thought. We're speaking of a private entity with a customer base it relies on.

Not quite. It's a division of a public company with stockholders and management that it needs to pay attention to. It's not private at all.

[Yarathir]

People complain about society all the time, yet they participate. Curious. Maybe something along your line of thought is not quite right.

Bors comics aren't good.

[Vampyrr]

I've been getting those vibes for the past 7 years.

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It's been pretty clear for several years now that the game is run by people who don't play the game and aren't designing the game for their paying customers. They actively resent the actual Warcraft audience and have been gaslighting and insulting them for years.

No it is being designed by people who play it but they are designing it around what they specifically want and not the majority of the playerbase.

[Shadowferal]

Not quite. It's a division of a public company with stockholders and management that it needs to pay attention to. It's not private at all.

And it would be negatively impacted by an angry customer base that up and quits...years earlier.

[Echo of Soul]

As has been noted ever since the game started, devoted customers and would be game designers complain that developers mostly ignore customer feedback. That's not quite true but it's generally so.

It's a mistake (and frankly a little dishonest because everyone knows this) to imply that changes are made only because a customer asked for it.

Every single account on this forum that posts "No one ever asked for this" or some variation thereof is doing the same thing: Ignoring the fact that lots of stuff that gets asked about never happens and lots of things that happen are not asked for. The developers are in charge and can do whatever they like. End of story.

It's very different when the customer is begging "please don't do this" and they do it anyway. That's how you lose customers to your competitors.

[muffinss]

I've been getting those vibes for the past 7 years.

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It's been pretty clear for several years now that the game is run by people who don't play the game and aren't designing the game for their paying customers. They actively resent the actual Warcraft audience and have been gaslighting and insulting them for years.

i've been feeling the same way for awhile now. its kinda like what happened with star wars too.

[uuuhname]

Yeah, I can do that and still think these changes are stupid. The changes here do nothing at all to change that, as you have agreed, so why bring it up in a thread about these specific changes?

good for you... I have been arguing that these changes are not indicative of Blizzard changing. only that the reaction to said changes is EQUALLY stupid. crying over the SJW's... crying over the left taking over society etc. it's all so obnoxious and goes to show how warped people's priorities are.

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To my knowledge that incident happened at Activision, not Blizzard.

yet the WoW dev team has been the source of most of these complaints and why the state investigated...

[nnelson54]

It's been pretty clear for several years now that the game is run by people who don't play the game

Ion very famously got his job at Blizzard in the first place because he played the game and was able to point out flaws in raids that the developers at the time couldn't see and he still plays and raids Mythic content.

Mike Ybarra plays and has completed +20 on every Mythic dungeon in Shadowlands.

Saying the game is ran by people who don't play it when most of their characters aren't a secret and you can literally look them up on the Armory and see their current progress is pretty dumb.

[MoanaLisa]

good for you... I have been arguing that these changes are not indicative of Blizzard changing. only that the reaction to said changes is EQUALLY stupid. crying over the SJW's... crying over the left taking over society etc. it's all so obnoxious and goes to show how warped people's priorities are.

The coterie of hangers-on here who both despise WoW and Blizzard about equally always overreact. So too do the overly eager supporters who defend everything Blizzard does. In my view neither group really cares all that much about either thing. They just want to fight. So they keep watch over every little thing and magnify it all out of proportion. Raging breeds engagement. That sucks but is what it is.

It's well to keep in mind that most game fan sites, this one included, cater to a very small audience relatively. It's rare that there are more than a very few hundred logged on here at any given time with accounts. That's fine but it's good to remember that probably a good half either side of this is being contested by less than 100 people. It's not even noise, much less signal.

Blizzard isn't going to go broke. The game isn't going to die. There will be a new outrage to fight over in a few weeks and everything goes on like normal. Virtues are fine things and signaling that you understand that is good. Social justice is a good thing and certain portions of the population waking up to what other portions of the population have to put up with is good too. It's disruptive but it's good in the long run.

Whatever real change that Blizzard is going through with their office culture—you'll get no argument from me that painting and emotes are just performative paint jobs over the real problems—is going to happen mostly out of our sight and knowledge. They may not really change at all. Corporate cultures are hard to change even a little, much less what's called for here. New leadership at Blizzard can help but it's a huge boat and will be hard to turn. What I do hope for is that the office environment there gets to be more professional, more serious about what they're doing, less distracted so they can do their jobs better than they have the last half-dozen years.

[uuuhname]

The coterie of hangers-on here who both despise WoW and Blizzard about equally always overreact. So too do the overly eager supporters who defend everything Blizzard does. In my view neither group really cares all that much about either thing. They just want to fight. So they keep watch over every little thing and magnify it all out of proportion. Controversy breeds engagement. That sucks but is what it is.

It's well to keep in mind that most game fan sites, this one included, cater to a very small audience relatively. It's rare that there are more than a very few hundred logged on here at any given time with accounts. That's fine but it's good to remember that probably a good half either side of this is being contested by less than 100 people. It's not even noise, much less signal.

Blizzard isn't going to go broke. The game isn't going to die. There will be a new outrage to fight over in a few weeks and everything goes on like normal. Virtues are fine things and signaling that you understand that is good. Social justice is a good thing and certain portions of the population waking up to what other portions of the population have to put up with is good too. It's disruptive but it's good in the long run.

Whatever real change that Blizzard is going through with their office culture—you'll get no argument from me that painting and emotes are just performative paint jobs over the real problems—is going to happen mostly out of our sight and knowledge. They may not really change at all. Corporate cultures are hard to change even a little, much less what's called for here. New leadership at Blizzard can help but it's a huge boat and will be hard to turn. What I do hope for is that the office environment there gets to be more professional, more serious about what they're doing, less distracted so they can do their jobs better than they have the last half-dozen years.

I totally understand the nature of fan sites like this. that's ultimately why I don't take much stock in the importance of.... really anything that goes on here. it's a fun waste of time. absolutely, none of this is going to shutter Activision-Blizzard or shut down the game, it's going to last for another decade at least.

and yeah what's really depressing is this is not at all unique to Blizzard and seems to be pervasive with games development from AAA publishers to indie devs. at some point workers are going to need to organize and unionize if they want to see any real material changes.

[Th3Scourge]

Not quite. It's a division of a public company with stockholders and management that it needs to pay attention to. It's not private at all.

Good Lord. Activision Blizzard is a publicly listed entity. It is not a government entity, and therefore is still a privately owned.

Public refers to disclosure requirements and trading on exchanges

[Swnem]

Well, the same could be said for these punitive changes. The energy is better spent of fixing the actual game rather than inserting their political ideology into a fantasy game

It's not political, it's social.

You are just defending the status quo. For some reason, cause this should not affect you and should not diminish your experience in any way.
In fact, you are the one being driven by political motivations into bringing this up. An issue that is of big importance for some but not for many others.

No one is being negatively affected by this. It is some who are positively affected and some that don't care or are unnafected directly. It's a net positive and it's really not worth talking about compared to, for example how the loot system is completely devoid of player agency and frustrating. That is what i care about. I want to have fun with the game.

[Th3Scourge]

It's not political, it's social.

You are just defending the status quo. For some reason, cause this should not affect you and should not diminish your experience in any way.
In fact, you are the one being driven by political motivations into bringing this up. An issue that is of big importance for some but not for many others.

No one is being negatively affected by this. It is some who are positively affected and some that don't care or are unnafected directly. It's a net positive and it's really not worth talking about compared to, for example how the loot system is completely devoid of player agency and frustrating. That is what i care about. I want to have fun with the game.

The social is the political. They are inserting their political ideology, which dictates their decisions and actions into the game. And their ideology is insane. I don't want it anywhere near the game. It poisons everything it touches.

You're happy for them to make punitive changes that only divide the player base instead of fixing core issues with the game, such as loot that you've identified. So in effect, you're content with them wasting resources and energy on this garbage that could have otherwise been invested in fixing something that causes actual frustration.

That is why this is so bad. These people are not working in your best interest. They are serving themselves.

[Edlarel]

Makes sense that's the only thing you can come up with, just shows how much thought you put into your comments.
Its also a bit ironic coming from someone with 4x more posts, also upset on a forum talking to strangers.

Not upset, just stating my general appreciation for the game. You disagree, and that's fine too. It doesn't make my thoughts on the state of the game any less valid than yours.