Is WoW Pay 2 Win?

[crusadernero]

Except it doesn't happen in seconds. You get gold in seconds. The titles, mounts, achievements, high level gear, and what now all takes time. It takes time for those groups to gear up enough to offer the boosts. It isn't pay to win. Buying gold is a micro transaction.

I didn't have a parameter of high dps. You are confusing another poster's argument with what I said. Anyone can always clear, see, and obtain what you have worked for. That isn't a thing that just got introduced with the Token. You are using the same argument people used back in the day when epic gear was easy to obtain. You were never unique. You were never special. Very few rewards in WoW are locked out and special/unique.

If you are an average player that can't compete or clear difficult content then those problems would still exist without the boost right? It shows it is more about jealousy or envy then it being pay to win.

Im not jealous or envy of anyone playing a videogame. But I feel sorry for those that actually play the game as intended and obtain said rewards doing so, when anyone in the game can just "lol token lol carry haha nice" and both have achived the same thing.

I have played wow since it released back in the stone age and I have never felt mad or jelous for missing out on titles, gear, mounts and whatnot. I have always known that the people that obtained it did so by playing the game, being good and spendt time on it. Only reason I didnt have it was because I lacked the desire, skill or time to obtain them. Im glad for the stuff I have obtained though and those things matter, cause most of it was done before wow went p2w with the token, meaning the game turned into a boosting service.

Whatever people obtain in the game now, means literally nothing. It has zero value. It holds nothing.

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It's not even "indirect P2W".

It's simply getting other players to help you by giving them something of value in return. That is all.

With that logic Blizzard should take action and put boosting services themself on the store. Afterall, they are just helping people.

In fact, its not really a bad idea. Let people spend 30 euros on a AI runned raid/dungeon that does the work for you. Its just help.

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Of course there is...



Essentially yes, within limits, but that is not the definition of p2w.

p2w is all about needing to spend money to obtain those things, or conversely, being unable to obtain them without spending money.



You're trying to handwave away a very significant point here: That you're not buying anything from the game with real money.

The token doesn't "cludder" anything. It is a means of facilitating a transaction between two players. When you buy a token you aren't buying any of the things you mention above. You are simply paying another player to make some gold for you. Some people then use that gold to get other players to help them obtain the other things on that list.

A big part of what makes the token not p2w is this very important fact that other players are the ones helping you "win", not the game itself. To better understand this distinction: In a p2w game, your money buys you the ability to achieve those things yourself, better than another player could.

Then shouldnt Blizzard just take control and offer boosting services from the store? AI runned raids would be great.

[rhorle]

Hence a boost is P2W.

Right. I said the level boost is pay to win. It is just a minor/acceptable one so very few see it as a problem to exist. If you know that RMT goes against the game rules then why are you confused about why Gallywix got in trouble? The token does not make the game pay to win. The level boost does.

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Im not jealous or envy of anyone playing a videogame. But I feel sorry for those that actually play the game as intended and obtain said rewards doing so, when anyone in the game can just "lol token lol carry haha nice" and both have achived the same thing.

But you could do all of that with gold prior to the token being introduced. People in-game have always been motivated by gold and would carry people for gold prior to the token being introduced. Auction runs were a common thing. Where people would bid on gold and the group (or just the guild running it) would split the pot.

[BattleHammer]

Right. I said the level boost is pay to win. It is just a minor/acceptable one so very few see it as a problem to exist. If you know that RMT goes against the game rules then why are you confused about why Gallywix got in trouble? The token does not make the game pay to win. The level boost does.

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But you could do all of that with gold prior to the token being introduced. People in-game have always been motivated by gold and would carry people for gold prior to the token being introduced. Auction runs were a common thing. Where people would bid on gold and the group (or just the guild running it) would split the pot.

Introducing the token generates more gold ingame, which in turn produces inflation, then as prices rise "regular" gold loses value and "token gold" becomes the way.

[rhorle]

Introducing the token generates more gold ingame, which in turn produces inflation, then as prices rise "regular" gold loses value and "token gold" becomes the way.

The token doesn't create any gold. All gold bought with the token has to be earned by players first. It also hasn't increased the price of basic goods as the price of the token has gone up. Even carries drop in price as the content tier is out longer rather then being strictly tied to the tokens price.

[Dhrizzle]

Can 1 out of 2 equally skilled players get an advantage by using money? Yes, hence it's P2W (sadly). The rest are technicalities to try and hide the facts.

What advantage can be bought that the other player couldn't equal through playing the game?

[Dzonathan]

What advantage can be bought that the other player couldn't equal through playing the game?

The advantage of efficiency.

For £17 you can get a Time Token that goes for 300k atm.
Even on minimum wage you can get £17 by doing 1 hour of overtime.
You go ahead and tell me with a straight face an average WoW player can guarantee 300k gold for every hour he puts into the game.

[Daymanmb]

People in-game have always been motivated by gold and would carry people for gold prior to the token being introduced.

Exactly. Now instead of earning gold in game, you just buy it with real money.. You see how you made the argument for p2w, right?

[Kehego]

Exactly. Now instead of earning gold in game, you just buy it with real money.. You see how you made the argument for p2w, right?

gold doesn't get you anything other than the potential increased ability to trade with other players

that isn't paying to win

boosting -10 levels under the cap isnt paying to win any more than buying heirlooms that scale to -10 max level is paying to win

You literally cannot buy power in wow from blizzard. Gold isn't power, it is convenience.

[Lolites]

Wow is pay 2 win now

now? you could buy gold, boe items, or boost since vanila, so if you consider that p2w it always have been...

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The wow token makes this stuff possible.

well this is just factualy incorrect, gold/items/boost selling was happening over DECADE before token was added...

[Kehego]

now? you could buy gold, boe items, or boost since vanila, so if you consider that p2w it always have been...

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well this is just factualy incorrect, gold/items/boost selling was happening over DECADE before token was added...

people on here talking bout trading as p2w like people didn't trade before the token lmao

[rhorle]

Exactly. Now instead of earning gold in game, you just buy it with real money.. You see how you made the argument for p2w, right?

Gold doesn't win you anything though. It is just gold. It is a micro transaction. Not all micro transactions are pay to win. A mount, cosmetic, title, skins, etc are all non-power related and don't win you anything. All gold gained from the token is earned by a player at some point. Tokens just trade the gold from one player to another for a $15 gift card. Blizzard takes a $5 cut.

[Lolites]

Even on minimum wage you can get £17 by doing 1 hour of overtime.

the hell you are smoking?
literaly no country in Europe (actualy i dont think worldwide) have minimum hourly wage at 17pounds, luxemburg should be highest at some 12e/h (roughly 10 pounds)...
for countries like Macedonia (roughly 1,5gbp/h) its literaly more than day of work... so yeah, if you know what you are doing its "cheaper" to farm gold than to pay for token in quite a big part of world (pretty much everywhere except the "richest" countries)...

[Dzonathan]

the hell you are smoking?
literaly no country in Europe (actualy i dont think worldwide) have minimum hourly wage at 17pounds, luxemburg should be highest at some 12e/h (roughly 10 pounds)...
for countries like Macedonia (roughly 1,5gbp/h) its literaly more than day of work... so yeah, if you know what you are doing its "cheaper" to farm gold than to pay for token in quite a big part of world (pretty much everywhere except the "richest" countries)...

United Kingdom and I said overtime.

[BattleHammer]

now? you could buy gold, boe items, or boost since vanila, so if you consider that p2w it always have been...

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well this is just factualy incorrect, gold/items/boost selling was happening over DECADE before token was added...

Gold/items/boost were happening as a part of the ingame economy, now you can pay your way to those.

I don't get how is it so hard to accept that this is a P2W mechanic, it may be small compared to other stuff but still is.

If you steal something you are a thief, it doesn't matter if it is a candy or millions of dollars.

[Soon-TM]

U buy WoW tokens, u buy boost, and get gear, but u still will get outdps by anyone who knows how to play the game. Your point?

So would you be OK with Blizz selling full mythic sets at the store? After all, if you are a bad player, you will still get outdps'd (BTW a big LOL at defining P2W as 'not getting outdps'd ) by everyone and their grandma in comparable gear.

[saintminya]

WoW is not pay to win. Boosts only take you to the starting level of the expansion, so you still have to level. Using a boost restricts you from entering the previous expansions' instances for 24 hours, so you can't immediately go off and get carried to collect gear that could give you a leg up in levleling. Of course you can still wait the day and go get carried for the loot, but it all quickly becomes useless upon leveling up. You can buy heirlooms to boost xp gains, assuming you have access to them, but they all become obsolete after a certain level. Point is, even after using a boost leveling is still required to get to endgame content, and you still have to get lucky with RNG to get ideal gear. Once the gear is aquired from farming and/or playing the auction house for non-soulbound/inferior gear, then you still have to find a guild or community crew to go off and raid or pvp with to begin collecting your next set of gear. I suppose you can buy carries, but that still doesn't guarantee drops or that the relevant gear would even fall into your posession. You also have to rinse and repeat to keep progressing up the difficulties or pvp ranks.

So once again, no, WoW is not Pay2Win. You can spend money to get slightly ahead, but you can't buy your way through endgame or purchase your best gear. If Blizzard decided to make all gear, including like Mythic tier sets, available for purchase with either real money from the shop or solely with gold in-game, then it would have made the jump into P2W territory. If they suddenly started selling boss skips or tokens to guarantee specific drops, then that would also make the game P2W. If you were enabled to purchase rankings, titles, automatic clears, or even achievements, then it would be P2W. As of right now none of that is offered though, and hopefully none of it ever will be.

[Lolites]

United Kingdom and I said overtime.

united kingdom is about 11usd so little over 8pounds, i cant speak for overtime "rates" in UK, as i never worked with them, but by law in most countries (or to be completely honest at least in those 20 or so i had in my agenda as payroll accountant) overtime pays THE SAME hourly wage as normal hours, unless its on state holiday or Sunday... some companies might pay more for overtime but that would be more of an exception than a rule...
so yeah, its still MILES away from 17gbp/hour

btw i love how you convenienlty ignored the part about majority of countries working few hours for that money just so you could pretend your agrument doesnt stand on wobbly legs at best...

[threads]

So once again, no, WoW is not Pay2Win. You can spend money to get slightly ahead, but you can't buy your way through endgame or purchase your best gear.

what? i can literally find a mythic+ or mythic raid boost and get all gear traded to me with gold that i buy off the shop.

[Dhrizzle]

The advantage of efficiency.

For £17 you can get a Time Token that goes for 300k atm.
Even on minimum wage you can get £17 by doing 1 hour of overtime.
You go ahead and tell me with a straight face an average WoW player can guarantee 300k gold for every hour he puts into the game.

Exactly it's just saving some time. Someone spending money on gold (which is 2 hours at UK minimum wage) has no advantage over someone who has more free time to play, or plays the Auction House, or has cash left over from WoD's goldapalooza.

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United Kingdom and I said overtime.

UK minimum wage doesn't recognise overtime, it's the same hourly rate regardless.

[crusadernero]

Gold doesn't win you anything though. It is just gold. It is a micro transaction. Not all micro transactions are pay to win. A mount, cosmetic, title, skins, etc are all non-power related and don't win you anything. All gold gained from the token is earned by a player at some point. Tokens just trade the gold from one player to another for a $15 gift card. Blizzard takes a $5 cut.

Player power never last. Whatever power/gear you obtain now, is shit a year later. BIS in classic not good in BC. BIS in BC not good in WotlK. BIS in Wotlk not good in Cata. And so on and so on.

What do last forever are titles, mounts and achivements. Thats the things that get carried with your character forever, into each and every new xpac/patch. These things once held value within the game, cause it ment something. You saw someone on a kickass mount or having a awesome title said something about said player.

Especially now that Tmog is a huge part of the game, watching what gear people have is more obscured.

Titles, achivs & certain mounts lasts forever and should hold weight. With the avid boosting and wow token, these things are diminished. I'd rather see Blizzard go balls deep on Tmog skins to buy on the shop than selling the token. Atleast you know that skin/mount comes from the shop.

While they are at it, they should double down on the botting.

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WoW is not pay to win. Boosts only take you to the starting level of the expansion, so you still have to level. Using a boost restricts you from entering the previous expansions' instances for 24 hours, so you can't immediately go off and get carried to collect gear that could give you a leg up in levleling. Of course you can still wait the day and go get carried for the loot, but it all quickly becomes useless upon leveling up. You can buy heirlooms to boost xp gains, assuming you have access to them, but they all become obsolete after a certain level. Point is, even after using a boost leveling is still required to get to endgame content, and you still have to get lucky with RNG to get ideal gear. Once the gear is aquired from farming and/or playing the auction house for non-soulbound/inferior gear, then you still have to find a guild or community crew to go off and raid or pvp with to begin collecting your next set of gear. I suppose you can buy carries, but that still doesn't guarantee drops or that the relevant gear would even fall into your posession. You also have to rinse and repeat to keep progressing up the difficulties or pvp ranks.

So once again, no, WoW is not Pay2Win. You can spend money to get slightly ahead, but you can't buy your way through endgame or purchase your best gear. If Blizzard decided to make all gear, including like Mythic tier sets, available for purchase with either real money from the shop or solely with gold in-game, then it would have made the jump into P2W territory. If they suddenly started selling boss skips or tokens to guarantee specific drops, then that would also make the game P2W. If you were enabled to purchase rankings, titles, automatic clears, or even achievements, then it would be P2W. As of right now none of that is offered though, and hopefully none of it ever will be.

Yes I can. Buy a couple of tokens and buy boosts in m+ & raids. wooop gear obtained. Can literally buy boosted character, play 10 lvls, not have ilevel enough for HC dungeons, buy tokens, buy boosts, get great gear. All done in a day. While sucking donkeykongass.