Revamping m+ rio system

[potis]

IF you offer that gameplay system in wow without the „for guilds only“ marker, THEN you have to do it also right, for the ppl that dont go with guilds. if Blizzard a few years ago had clearly declared WoW as a game „solely playbale with guilds“ and not offered systems for pug ppls, i am totally fine with „get a guild. if you cant or wont, wow is not for you. period.“. but this is not what happened.

Yeah, you have a brain and understand the problem and accepted your side, but most people dont get it, and dont understand it.

If you cant be responsible towards the time of other people and sacrifice some time of your life to play with other people and are not good enough to pug whenever you want, then WoW is not for you anymore, it happens, we grow up.

Thats where the problem is with all these posts, especially at the start of every expansion, people see others pugging, they see the streamers, and they think thats how it is, when it is not.

Just because the 1% is doing things whenever they want, it doesnt mean you can join in without any qualifications, and if you refuse to create those qualifications, then no one else is at fault, and neither is the game.

[dacoolist]

People have great ideas in the thread for Raider IO revamp aka making keys not deplete and stuff like that honestly sound pretty great to me.. My issue though is that most people in the thread are saying that people are shit at 2500 yet their armory is showing less than even 2k.. I was literally 2k the first say the Mythic Raid released. Now being 2300+ I'll say its not that special I just run keys with randos and have fun - but saying we are shit at anything below 2500 is the biggest joke I've seen.

Time to start linking your armory because the ones I found show a totally different story.

If you're not actually doing M+ then why are people posting here like they are or how it should change when they haven't even tried.. I know the games ded but holy F what is even happening here LOL

[Kaver]

yep, totally sign that. game is better factor 100 when doing what you said. had that in past. totally agree.

that said: not everyone can adapt their live to guild shematics. i am more than 40 years old and at the moment a guild simply dont work. there are, even for m+, 4 other ppls, that rely on your shedule and you have to plan things. at least a bit. also my main free time at the moment is in the night. not something many guildies are found for.

this is no excuse. but:

IF you offer that gameplay system in wow without the „for guilds only“ marker, THEN you have to do it also right, for the ppl that dont go with guilds. if Blizzard a few years ago had clearly declared WoW as a game „solely playbale with guilds“ and not offered systems for pug ppls, i am totally fine with „get a guild. if you cant or wont, wow is not for you. period.“. but this is not what happened.

You don’t have to play on a schedule to do M+ with a guild. In my guild we just have a M+ channel in our discord and people just make a post every time they feel like doing M+. Most of the time there’s people available for a full guild group and even if they have to pug the last member it’s still better than a full pug group. The point is that it’s very casual with absolutely no overall commitment by the members.

[erifwodahs]

Nothing is ruined. You only think that because you're punished like a dumb monkey by blizzard for failing in their game. If you remove the punishment and instead work more prominently with incentives instead you're reducing toxicity and making group forming easier.

Progress tracker and dick measurement tools like rIO serve nothing else but to again cause more unhealthy competition within the community.

I am not punished lol. I literally always run my own key and while I agree that not depleting key would make a difference in giving a chance for a guy who you are on a fence for inviting, but if you think I would pug blind just because of that - well, I respect my time more - you have people who have done 19s without a single 20 trying to sign up for 21s-22s, I am not doing vault level keys anymore, but I assume situation is the same, bunch of 11s trying to jump to 15s - so yeah, without "at a glance" evaluation tools pugging is screwed
Don't care about items so sure, whatever.
"Vote" system in m+ group and punishment otherwise is very very very bad idea - welcome to troll hostage keys where you either boost someone or take a punishment, no thx - people could be trolling, intentionally messing up, abusive behavior, semi-afking and without a GM literally checking whole run manually you are screwed because automated system can't determine if someone is trolling or not and we all know that pugging would have way stronger requirements because of this alone.

[Tsarez]

I am not punished lol. I literally always run my own key and while I agree that not depleting key would make a difference in giving a chance for a guy who you are on a fence for inviting, but if you think I would pug blind just because of that - well, I respect my time more - you have people who have done 19s without a single 20 trying to sign up for 21s-22s, I am not doing vault level keys anymore, but I assume situation is the same, bunch of 11s trying to jump to 15s - so yeah, without "at a glance" evaluation tools pugging is screwed
Don't care about items so sure, whatever.
"Vote" system in m+ group and punishment otherwise is very very very bad idea - welcome to troll hostage keys where you either boost someone or take a punishment, no thx - people could be trolling, intentionally messing up, abusive behavior, semi-afking and without a GM literally checking whole run manually you are screwed because automated system can't determine if someone is trolling or not and we all know that pugging would have way stronger requirements because of this alone.

Vote to abort. No hostage situation possible. Carrying is encouraged through incentives.

It's fine if you chose to be toxic and an ego but don't pretend that the system changes I proposed wouldn't make the game as a whole simply better.

If you want to enter Uber elite levels you're not going to pug anyway

[erifwodahs]

Vote to abort. No hostage situation possible. Carrying is encouraged through incentives.

It's fine if you chose to be toxic and an ego but don't pretend that the system changes I proposed wouldn't make the game as a whole simply better.

If you want to enter Uber elite levels you're not going to pug anyway

Vote to abort - so how does that work? If a 3 people premade are abusive shits and you want to leave but they deny? Take a punishment? Or if they have taken a guildie in who is completely shit at the game and started a key as soon as he entered? Or if you joined a run where someone is boosting someone without letting you know for gold and now you are locked with them. Vote system in MANUALLY assembled group should never be a thing as well as punishment for leaving such a party - it's manually assembled group, leader is responsible. Especially not in a world where you have removed all indications of experience and now you are pugging blind. Might as well have auto-matchmaking. I would love to see you try to do a +15 with randomly clicking invite and ending up with people who do less dmg than a tank and not knowing what a tranq shot does.

[Tsarez]

Vote to abort - so how does that work? If a 3 people premade are abusive shits and you want to leave but they deny? Take a punishment? Or if they have taken a guildie in who is completely shit at the game and started a key as soon as he entered? Or if you joined a run where someone is boosting someone without letting you know for gold and now you are locked with them. Vote system in MANUALLY assembled group should never be a thing as well as punishment for leaving such a party - it's manually assembled group, leader is responsible. Especially not in a world where you have removed all indications of experience and now you are pugging blind. Might as well have auto-matchmaking. I would love to see you try to do a +15 with randomly clicking invite and ending up with people who do less dmg than a tank and not knowing what a tranq shot does.

How often does that even happen? Look at how fucked up your thinking and this community is if you think that per standard you will run into abusive shits who will keep you hostage. In the years and thousands of runs I've done, I've not come across a premade group of people who would rather waste their own time and not finish a run but instead opt out to bully someone else for half an hour.

Make it a strike system then so that you have 2 or 3 daily free leaves. But notorious toxic leavers need to understand that their behavior is unwanted.

And if someone is boosting another person for gold, the booster should carry their weight don't you think? Don't even know why that is a problem. Read my other post where I have explained how the boosting issue can be solved as well by doubling down on it and officially supporting it with dedicated boosting channels so that these people keep to themselves anyway.

Again, the whole system needs a revamp. What you think a +15 is needs to change. Whatever most people desire should be manageable and achievable with randoms. Tone the difficulty down.

People who venture into the extreme levels don't do it for the gear anyway. At the moment there is ZERO benefit in doing high keys and people do them regardless.

[erifwodahs]

How often does that even happen? Look at how fucked up your thinking and this community is if you think that per standard you will run into abusive shits who will keep you hostage. In the years and thousands of runs I've done, I've not come across a premade group of people who would rather waste their own time and not finish a run but instead opt out to bully someone else for half an hour.

Make it a strike system then so that you have 2 or 3 daily free leaves. But notorious toxic leavers need to understand that their behavior is unwanted.

And if someone is boosting another person for gold, the booster should carry their weight don't you think? Don't even know why that is a problem. Read my other post where I have explained how the boosting issue can be solved as well by doubling down on it and officially supporting it with dedicated boosting channels so that these people keep to themselves anyway.

Again, the whole system needs a revamp. What you think a +15 is needs to change. Whatever most people desire should be manageable and achievable with randoms. Tone the difficulty down.

People who venture into the extreme levels don't do it for the gear anyway. At the moment there is ZERO benefit in doing high keys and people do them regardless.

It doesn't happen now because it can't? And trust me, there are people who are boosting inviting people for a boost without letting anyone else no so they don't have to share a cut. Happens in AotC raiding, happens in m+, again I don't care about loot, but vote system for disbanding and punishment for leaving is absolutely retarded. We were doing a +21 yesterday, wiped on boss 3rd boss and my call was "it's over" because it's my group and healer agreed, but 3 dps wanted to finish for the vault even if it was marked as "push" which I said I don't see it as worth the effort and left.

[Tsarez]

It doesn't happen now because it can't? And trust me, there are people who are boosting inviting people for a boost without letting anyone else no so they don't have to share a cut. Happens in AotC raiding, happens in m+, again I don't care about loot, but vote system for disbanding and punishment for leaving is absolutely retarded. We were doing a +21 yesterday, wiped on boss 3rd boss and my call was "it's over" because it's my group and healer agreed, but 3 dps wanted to finish for the vault even if it was marked as "push" which I said I don't see it as worth the effort and left.

You're just looking for excuses to not finish runs. That you don't see that you're part of the problem this community has is the reason why the game has tumbled into garbage tier entertainment.

You can't even think of a solution as it seems. Just some lame and arbitrary excuses to upkeep the status quo of the toxic environment that blizzard created.

A strike system would allow you to leave anyway without consequences for a few times per day. If you need to abort runs more often than that per day, you have deeper problems.

[Ilookfly]

Ive pugged as an off meta dps to +25s this season. No issues here. Also, I have a lot of friends who has played the game since vanilla and they are all casuals doing heroic raids at most. Having played this game for a very long time means nothing when its a completely different game year on year.

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There are no issues within the community. Tough if you dont get invited but such is life. Besides, if you cant handle "toxic" people yelling at each other maybe online games should be avoided.

[T-34]

You're just looking for excuses to not finish runs. That you don't see that you're part of the problem this community has is the reason why the game has tumbled into garbage tier entertainment.

You can't even think of a solution as it seems. Just some lame and arbitrary excuses to upkeep the status quo of the toxic environment that blizzard created.

A strike system would allow you to leave anyway without consequences for a few times per day. If you need to abort runs more often than that per day, you have deeper problems.

I am not part of your "community". You don't speak for me.
I don't want to waste my time with bad players, either because they are inept or because they don't respect the time and effort of other people.
Just as people who are better than me don't want to waste their time playing with me.

The raider.io-system is so far the best way to filter out the bad, the lazy and the entitled.
This thread, and countless other like this, prove that the bad, the lazy and the entitled find it more and more difficult to be carried.

I for one experience virtually no toxicity when I play WoW, but on the other hand I also spend a little bit of time to filter out the lazy and entitled from my groups.

[Soikona]

Ive pugged as an off meta dps to +25s this season. No issues here. Also, I have a lot of friends who has played the game since vanilla and they are all casuals doing heroic raids at most. Having played this game for a very long time means nothing when its a completely different game year on year.

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There are no issues within the community. Tough if you dont get invited but such is life. Besides, if you cant handle "toxic" people yelling at each other maybe online games should be avoided.

Or just be civil? Why does online gaming have to be a place for people with misplaced anger issues to take it out? Is it because they can’t be punched in the face?

[T-34]

Or just be civil? Why does online gaming have to be a place for people with misplaced anger issues to take it out? Is it because they can’t be punched in the face?

That is the reason why you need a system like raider.io to get a pleasant in-game experience.
Without that then you would have to play with the toxic, entitled players that expect and demand that other people should carry them.
A group consisting of players of similar skill, experience and respect for each others time will never result in misplaced anger, whereas a group that contains players of the toxic lazy and entitled type often leads to conflict.

[Ilookfly]

Or just be civil? Why does online gaming have to be a place for people with misplaced anger issues to take it out? Is it because they can’t be punched in the face?

Punching people as a resort of getting yelled at online? How civil. This might be your first time playing online games or spending time on the internet but people will be anything but civil when granted the boon of anonymity. Expecting things to be different is border line fantasy.

[potis]

Or just be civil? Why does online gaming have to be a place for people with misplaced anger issues to take it out? Is it because they can’t be punched in the face?

As T-34 said, you dont encounter toxicity if you arent a lazy entitled snowflake, all the people crying about raider.io are people that want to play outside their skill level, its like being 10 years old, your mother tells you how great you are at football and you believe it and start complaining that you arent allowed to participate in Champions League matches with your favorite team but you should because you are good and you believe to be.

All the complainers over the years their majority, is literally the example above, there are some legit problems with any system, but 99% of the complains are always the fact that some entitled snowflake wants to be accepted to a +15, while having done a +5 as his highest key, and while there is a pool of 250 ilvl players, they should accept his 225 ilvl, and thats toxic community..What?

[Mardux]

How often does that even happen? Look at how fucked up your thinking and this community is if you think that per standard you will run into abusive shits who will keep you hostage. In the years and thousands of runs I've done, I've not come across a premade group of people who would rather waste their own time and not finish a run but instead opt out to bully someone else for half an hour.

Make it a strike system then so that you have 2 or 3 daily free leaves. But notorious toxic leavers need to understand that their behavior is unwanted.

And if someone is boosting another person for gold, the booster should carry their weight don't you think? Don't even know why that is a problem. Read my other post where I have explained how the boosting issue can be solved as well by doubling down on it and officially supporting it with dedicated boosting channels so that these people keep to themselves anyway.

Again, the whole system needs a revamp. What you think a +15 is needs to change. Whatever most people desire should be manageable and achievable with randoms. Tone the difficulty down.

People who venture into the extreme levels don't do it for the gear anyway. At the moment there is ZERO benefit in doing high keys and people do them regardless.

Imagine thinking that inductive and deductive reasoning are "fucked up" ways of thinking.

I can tell you this... its a lot less fucked up than you choosing to look through rose colored glasses and ignoring reality.

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As T-34 said, you dont encounter toxicity if you arent a lazy entitled snowflake, all the people crying about raider.io are people that want to play outside their skill level, its like being 10 years old, your mother tells you how great you are at football and you believe it and start complaining that you arent allowed to participate in Champions League matches with your favorite team but you should because you are good and you believe to be.

All the complainers over the years their majority, is literally the example above, there are some legit problems with any system, but 99% of the complains are always the fact that some entitled snowflake wants to be accepted to a +15, while having done a +5 as his highest key, and while there is a pool of 250 ilvl players, they should accept his 225 ilvl, and thats toxic community..What?

False. You should work on incorporating less projection into your replies.

[Soikona]

Punching people as a resort of getting yelled at online? How civil. This might be your first time playing online games or spending time on the internet but people will be anything but civil when granted the boon of anonymity. Expecting things to be different is border line fantasy.

Regarding the punching, it’d a saying. Remove the fear of a punch in the face, and people become dicks.

I don’t encounter toxic behaviour, if I do I just put them on ignore. If I don’t like someone’s play style I put them on ignore. I don’t be a dick to them. It’s that simple really.

[Nightstalker]

Another system to be played, rigged and then forced to be removed.
Why do I read 5 sentences of the OP and already know he didn't think about it for more than the moment he wrote it down?

[Flaim]

The raider.io-system is so far the best way to filter out the bad, the lazy and the entitled.

just because it's the best system we currently have doesn't make it a flawless system.
the main problem why people get boosted and stay at a key level way over their capabilities is that their rio can not decay due to performing badly like in a proper mmr system akin to arena rating. how would you fix something like that though?
drop rio whenever a key is not made in time? that's honestly the only reason i could see the timer having any use at all.
dropping rio for leaving prematurely?
while those would fix the problem of people playing way out of their league, it would also breed even more toxicity, due to people thinking they're only held back by their team mates, like in most other coop competitive environments, e.g. arena, csgo, lol, valorant, apex and many more examples.

nevertheless, i think we can agree that rio is necessary, but needs tweaks, can't we?

[erifwodahs]

You're just looking for excuses to not finish runs. That you don't see that you're part of the problem this community has is the reason why the game has tumbled into garbage tier entertainment.

You can't even think of a solution as it seems. Just some lame and arbitrary excuses to upkeep the status quo of the toxic environment that blizzard created.

A strike system would allow you to leave anyway without consequences for a few times per day. If you need to abort runs more often than that per day, you have deeper problems.

You haven't tried to push keys I can see. Why would I want to spend my time to finish a push key which is not going to be pushed? Especially when we wiped once which means no BL/CDs and we need to kill same boss and then finish the rest of the dungeon? You literally want to protect people who are getting carried by implementing some controls from automated systems into a manually assembled group. Why wouldn't you do the same for a HC pug? If you join a pug then you can't leave unless 2/3 people in the pug have voted "yes" to disband. I would love to see you pug people without ability to check any prior experience and then also not being able to leave if it sucks. GL buddy.