Is WoW Pay 2 Win?

[Dhrizzle]

Apply this fallacy to any other game. Youre basically saying nothing is p2w.

Some games offer perks, items or enhancements that make you more powerful and which can not be matched by non-paying players. Most of those systems died out on PC and consoles because people firmly rejected them, making developers focus on time-saving or convenience MTX like WoW has.

Examples I keep giving are Word of Tanks selling Gold Ammo with superior armour penetration and RIFT selling additional item slots.

[Lolites]

Youve lost the plot. Cheating is in no way the same as paying real money for convenience bypasses sold by the games maker..

"cheating" and "convenience bypass", nice phrases, i bet you also differenciate if someone is "fatass" or "big-boned" right?

different name for the same shit, you pay other players real money or gold to boost you, its literaly the same, only difference is blizzard is geting cut (if you use token, you still dont have to as 3rd party boosting websites still are around)

[Daymanmb]

Examples I keep giving are Word of Tanks selling Gold Ammo with superior armour penetration and RIFT selling additional item slots.

Getting more item slots isnt winning though /s. Its weird that youd use that standard.

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"cheating" and "convenience bypass", nice phrases, i bet you also differenciate if someone is "fatass" or "big-boned" right?

different name for the same shit, you pay other players real money or gold to boost you, its literaly the same, only difference is blizzard is geting cut (if you use token, you still dont have to as 3rd party boosting websites still are around)

Yeh, buying gold was a TOS violation in vanilla and now Blizzard makes money off of it. Surely you can distinguish the difference..

[Lolites]

Yeh, buying gold was a TOS violation in vanilla and now Blizzard makes money off of it. Surely you can distinguish the difference, right?

i can - blizzard is making money, thats all the difference to it

to players its LITERALY THE SAME

how about if i buy gold from 3rd party website NOW, and use it to buy boost, by YOUR logic its not p2w bcs im breaking tos...
or after adding token even breaking tos became p2w even thouhg it wasnt before?
or, most likely, are you just twisting reality to fit YOUR OPINION? no need to answer, i already know

[Daymanmb]

i can - blizzard is making money, thats all the difference to it

to players its LITERALY THE SAME

how about if i buy gold from 3rd party website NOW, and use it to buy boost, by YOUR logic its not p2w bcs im breaking tos...
or after adding token even breaking tos became p2w even thouhg it wasnt before?
or, most likely, are you just twisting reality to fit YOUR OPINION?

No its not the same at all. Are you suggesting that everyone who buys tokens from blizzard, also violated TOS in vanilla and bought gold from 3rd party sites?

[kaminaris]

Clearly your love for the token doesn't let you see the other side of the coin, which is why you think it isn't a P2W mechanic.

Same can be said for TCG and frankly, buying directly without middle man.

[Dhrizzle]

Getting more item slots isnt winning though /s. Its weird that youd use that standard.

Imagine your character in WoW had two extra ring slots. It would allow you to wear two more rings which means you would have a stat-boost available to you that no-one could match unless they also paid money for the extra item slots. "Enhancing your character in a way no-one can match unless they also pay money" is the one definition that has been universally accepted in this thread, except by you apparently.

[kaminaris]

No its not the same at all. Are you suggesting that everyone who buys tokens from blizzard, also violated TOS in vanilla and bought gold from 3rd party sites?

Your morals are irrelevant to discussion to be honest. People buy boosts and gold directly without converting it with tokens. That is a fact. So according to you, they buy advantage. It's that simple.

[Lolites]

No its not the same at all. Are you suggesting that everyone who buys tokens from blizzard, also violated TOS in vanilla and bought gold from 3rd party sites?

when did you move goalpost to position "same amount of people must take part or its not p2w"?

i noticed you conveniently ignored the other point, perhaps bcs reality doesnt fit your narative...

[Daymanmb]

Your morals are irrelevant to discussion to be honest. People buy boosts and gold directly without converting it with tokens. That is a fact. So according to you, they buy advantage. It's that simple.

Im not talking from a moralistic pov lol. Were talking about p2w, try and keep up. P2w requires the games maker to profit from selling things to the players to make the game easier. Buying gold from 3rd party sellers isnt p2w. Buying it from the games maker is.

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Imagine your character in WoW had two extra ring slots. It would allow you to wear two more rings which means you would have a stat-boost available to you that no-one could match unless they also paid money for the extra item slots. "Enhancing your character in a way no-one can match unless they also pay money" is the one definition that has been universally accepted in this thread, except by you apparently.

Man, I even put in /s...

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when did you move goalpost to position "same amount of people must take part or its not p2w"?

i noticed you conveniently ignored the other point, perhaps bcs reality doesnt fit your narative...

Your reading comprehension is weak.

TO BE CLEAR, buying boosts from players with gold isnt p2w. Buying gold with real money from the games maker is.

[Dzonathan]

Exactly it's just saving some time. Someone spending money on gold (which is 2 hours at UK minimum wage) has no advantage over someone who has more free time to play, or plays the Auction House, or has cash left over from WoD's goldapalooza.

And I will ask the same question again until you answer it.
You go ahead and tell me with a straight face an average WoW player can guarantee 300k gold for every hour he puts into the game.

UK minimum wage doesn't recognise overtime, it's the same hourly rate regardless.

Maybe it doesn't but most companies do so your point is moot.

[Daymanmb]

You go ahead and tell me with a straight face an average WoW player can guarantee 300k gold for every hour he puts into the game.

Hes too busy arguing semantics to debate your point..

[Lolites]

Your reading comprehension is weak.

nope, its fine
your goal-post moving and understanding is terrible though

still, 2nd time avoiding my question:

how did buying gold from 3rd party and using it to buy boost changed from "not p2w" to "p2w" after token? it literaly have zero impact on it (well it have impact on price but thats besides the point)

you could go to 3rd party website, buy gold, and use it to get boost in tbc or wrath and you claim it wasnt p2w, so how is it p2w now? and if its not your "definition" of p2w is mighty fucked up, bcs even with token you buy gold from OTHER PLAYER, blizz just helps with the transaction for a fee...

[Dzonathan]

united kingdom is about 11usd so little over 8pounds, i cant speak for overtime "rates" in UK, as i never worked with them, but by law in most countries (or to be completely honest at least in those 20 or so i had in my agenda as payroll accountant) overtime pays THE SAME hourly wage as normal hours, unless its on state holiday or Sunday... some companies might pay more for overtime but that would be more of an exception than a rule...
so yeah, its still MILES away from 17gbp/hour

btw i love how you convenienlty ignored the part about majority of countries working few hours for that money just so you could pretend your agrument doesnt stand on wobbly legs at best...

Globalised world so you're not meant to stay where you were born.

[Daymanmb]

Exactly it's just saving some time.

And were back to looking at FUT. Money can save you thousands of hours of game play. Thats not p2w?

[epigramx]

nope, its fine
your goal-post moving and understanding is terrible though

still, 2nd time avoiding my question:

how did buying gold from 3rd party and using it to buy boost changed from "not p2w" to "p2w" after token? it literaly have zero impact on it (well it have impact on price but thats besides the point)

you could go to 3rd party website, buy gold, and use it to get boost in tbc or wrath and you claim it wasnt p2w, so how is it p2w now? and if its not your "definition" of p2w is mighty fucked up, bcs even with token you buy gold from OTHER PLAYER, blizz just helps with the transaction for a fee...

Are you still going on with the same old argument since the start of the thread? I thought the thread would be dead by now but it appears to be Marmot Day in here.

Anyway: the fallacy of your argument remains: now it's with the Blizzard's blessing and extremely easier/common so you do not compare the same thing.

[Daymanmb]

nope, its fine
your goal-post moving and understanding is terrible though

still, 2nd time avoiding my question:

how did buying gold from 3rd party and using it to buy boost changed from "not p2w" to "p2w" after token? it literaly have zero impact on it (well it have impact on price but thats besides the point)

you could go to 3rd party website, buy gold, and use it to get boost in tbc or wrath and you claim it wasnt p2w, so how is it p2w now? and if its not your "definition" of p2w is mighty fucked up, bcs even with token you buy gold from OTHER PLAYER, blizz just helps with the transaction for a fee...

For one, buying boosts isnt p2w. Buying gold is. Wow wasnt a p2w game before the token, because Blizzard wasnt making the money. Paying a 3rd party real money for gold, in violation of TOS, doesnt make a game p2w... gd.

[Lolites]

Globalised world so you're not meant to stay where you were born.

and that have fuck all to do with my point...

but lets make a little count: you are born in macedonia, finish school, start working, and make the amazing minimum wage of the country which is less than 300e a month, now what do you think those people can do, snap fingers and appear in country with 10 times as much? even if they already had a job there, what exactly would they live from first month before they would get salary? bcs from their home minimum wage they could hardly save enough money to pay month worth of bills in richer country...

[Daymanmb]

and that have fuck all to do with my point...

but lets make a little count: you are born in macedonia, finish school, start working, and make the amazing minimum wage of the country which is less than 300e a month, now what do you think those people can do, snap fingers and appear in country with 10 times as much? even if they already had a job there, what exactly would they live from first month before they would get salary? bcs from their home minimum wage they could hardly save enough money to pay month worth of bills in richer country...

Man, youre giving me shit for dodging your point, but here you are, unironically arguing the minimum wage of 30 EU countries lmao.. get real

[Lolites]

For one, buying boosts isnt p2w. Buying gold is. Wow wasnt a p2w game before the token, because Blizzard wasnt making the money. Paying a 3rd party real money for gold, in violation of TOS, doesnt make a game p2w... gd.

so if i buy gold via token i use p2w feature, but if i buy it from 3rd party website im not, even though its LITERALY the same outcome... is that what you say?
bcs if it is you are WAAAAAY out of reality...