MMO Champion! Do you lean left or right?

[Endus]

This is the problem right here with centrism.

I ask you for a specific problem that exists and to explain why the centre is better. you instead go down a line of "the centre is better by virtue of being in the centre"

You don't have a specific problem to mention because you don't seem to really care about the actual policy or politics but instead about the ideology of centrism

Centrism, the "I refuse to form an opinion" position. The "I oppose extremes but couldn't tell you whether any actual policy or proposal is 'extreme' or not" position. The "making decisions is hard so I'm going to pretend not making decisions is a valid choice" position.

[caractacus]

My perception is that I lean to the right but the political compass test says I lean slightly to the left but I imagine most people here shitting all over that test.

[Mihalik]

That hard to dig in my posts? Everyone around knows i'm portuguese.

I don't know enough about Portuguese politics and economics to comment (even tho I live in Spain, and have been to Portugal every year since 2009 except 2011 and 2020), but I'd be surprised if right wing politics in Portugal would be some sort of special snowflake outliers when compared to basically....most other developed/developing economies.

[Themius]

Where did i said that centrism was better? I said i was a centrist, didn't said it was better. Its what i believe. I strongly believe that not all from Left/Right is good or bad, there must be an equilibrium.

The OP asked if people was right/left and i answered i am in the middle, that was it.



Ideology are meant for morons, i don't follow any. All i care is the best of the best, the best from right and the best from left. Offcourse i can't have both, so, there must be an equilibrium, we pay what we can afford.

Ideology:

a system of ideas and ideals, especially one which forms the basis of economic or political theory and policy.

A moron is a person who has no system of ideals or ideas with which they form their own opinions.

What the fuck is your problem? Are you finding it hard to NAME A SPECIFIC POLICY ISSUE?

[Tuor]

Ideology:

a system of ideas and ideals, especially one which forms the basis of economic or political theory and policy.

A moron is a person who has no system of ideals or ideas with which they form their own opinions.

What the fuck is your problem? Are you finding it hard to NAME A SPECIFIC POLICY ISSUE?

A moron is someone that allows someone else to take their own decisitions, hitler did it, Mussolini did it, Franco... Salazar.

[Themius]

I don't know enough about Portuguese politics and economics to comment (even tho I live in Spain, and have been to Portugal every year since 2009 except 2011 and 2020), but I'd be surprised if right wing politics in Portugal would be some sort of special snowflake outliers when compared to basically....most other developed/developing economies.

Portugal has been having a rise in the far right-wing types lately just like most places If Tuor wants to stay in the centre that means they must be moving further to the right... but hey "balance"!

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A moron is someone that allows someone else to take their own decisitions, hitler did it, Mussolini did it, Franco... Salazar.

Do you not understand having your own ideas and ideals with which you form your own god damn opinions? Are you dead? If you're not dead you have a fucking ideology. Why do you think someone "else" creates ideology for others that's not how it fucking works.

A person's life experiences can form an ideology.

What the fuck do you think "centrism" is do you think it's somehow ideologically negative???

You are literally sitting here talking about how "the best method is the centre" which is a fucking ideology.

[Mihalik]

My perception is that I lean to the right but the political compass test says I lean slightly to the left but I imagine most people here shitting all over that test.

A shocking amount of people are way more progressive when questioned on the specific issues than they think themselves to be. Being "right leaning" is often socially beaten into people by their families and environment.

-Should we have universal healthcare?
-Yes....but I'm going to vote for the party that is against it because my uncle, father, father in law, coworkers and pastor at church told me so.

[Themius]

A shocking amount of people are way more progressive when questioned on the specific issues than they think themselves to be. Being "right leaning" is often socially beaten into people by their families and environment.

-Should we have universal healthcare?
-Yes....but I'm going to vote for the party that is against because my uncle, father, father in law, coworkers and pastor at church told me so.

Don't forget the centrist voting libertarian (and libertarian types) because they're totally the centre party.

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Centrism, the "I refuse to form an opinion" position. The "I oppose extremes but couldn't tell you whether any actual policy or proposal is 'extreme' or not" position. The "making decisions is hard so I'm going to pretend not making decisions is a valid choice" position.

It's hilarious... the dude even said "i don't have an ideology only morons do" like the fuck... the only people without an ideology are either dead or morally bankrupt.

[callipygoustp]

Hard right...


when wearing boxers.

[Tuor]

Portugal has been having a rise in the far right-wing types lately just like most places If Tuor wants to stay in the centre that means they must be moving further to the right... but hey "balance"!

Confirmed, there have been a far right increase. Me in the other hand, i have shifted to the left, not to the right.

Do you not understand having your own ideas and ideals with which you form your own god damn opinions? Are you dead? If you're not dead you have a fucking ideology.

Hate extremists, and i can asure i have any, and has you can see, i'm using my head just right now, and i am not imposing my view to anyone. I strongly believe that everyone should be free to take their own decisitions.

Why do you think someone "else" creates ideology for others that's not how it fucking works.

An ideology is a way to controll the masses, in that way, i don't have any.

Have you ever dealed with a comunist? Well, i did, and its all about imposed ideals, comunists are not free to use their head, just like nazi's weren't free to use theirs.

What the fuck do you think "centrism" is do you think it's somehow ideologically negative???

You are literally sitting here talking about how "the best method is the centre" which is a fucking ideology.

Again the best? I didn't said center was the best, that is up with other people, i said that is what i fucking believe, not writting all the shit again, read my fucking previous posts.

[Endus]

It's hilarious... the dude even said "i don't have an ideology only morons do" like the fuck... the only people without an ideology are either dead or morally bankrupt.

It's like he thinks "ideology" is "a movement I make no effort to understand and just hold blind unthinking faith in".

When the reality is "I have spent years critically examining my own priorities and reading political theory and history to come to a better understanding of how those priorities could best be achieved in practice, and upon determining what it is I believe is the best path for a society, I seek out similar thinking to deepen my understanding of the field and, in the pursuit of that entire process, come to an understanding of what labels best describe my point of view."

And no; I'm not bragging. That's a pretty damned low standard, frankly.

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An ideology is a way to controll the masses, in that way, i don't have any.

Have you ever dealed with a comunist? Well, i did, and its all about imposed ideals, comunists are not free to use their head, just like nazi's weren't free to use theirs.

Literally nothing you said here is true. Where the hell did you get this nonsense?

[Doctor Amadeus]

what is your affiliation?

Forgot Affiliations hmmm.

Liberal and Left Fiscally and Socially.

Democrat

Christian

Pro Science

Guns Rights Advocate

Pro Basic Livable wage = % of Medium Income

For Capital Gains Tax

For 40% Tax on anyone making over a million a year

Against Abortion, but Support Pro Choice before a fetus becomes a viable human.

Pro Equality of life

Against Equality of Ideas

For UBI

For A Green New Deal

Pro Censorship provided it's a private company as long as a business is private they should be allowed to discriminate against anyone they want unless, it's based on Race, Sex, or Orientation.

[Tuor]

Literally nothing you said here is true. Where the hell did you get this nonsense?

Lol, i'll give you an example. Imagine 2 referendus, for both NO is considered a conservative vote, so, normally right winged, but a YES is considered a liberal vote, so left winged. Now imagine 2 guys, one votes NO for the 1st referendum and YES to the second, but the other guy votes YES for the 1st referendum and NO to the second. They both have mixed ideals, so, we can say they both centrists, except, they 100% antagonic. The normal thing for a centrist is voting in what they believe is better. This is aswell the main reason why centrist parties aren't well succeed, they normally fall to the right or to the left, when that happens they form a political program which can be called an ideology. Me, in the other hand, i vote for the merit of politics not for political programs.

The way i see it, is that ideologies are meant to group people with similar ideas. My presunption however, is that other people from the same political spectrum has me, will most likely disagree with me.

Has i said, my vote goes to the merit of a measure to be implemented, i don't vote because its cool to vote in that specific party. Populism is bad, and i am seeing that just right now with CHEGA Party here in Portugal. I have no ideology because my goal is to vote in the merit, not in the populism.

[Yadryonych]

A shocking amount of people are way more progressive when questioned on the specific issues than they think themselves to be. Being "right leaning" is often socially beaten into people by their families and environment.

-Should we have universal healthcare?
-Yes....but I'm going to vote for the party that is against it because my uncle, father, father in law, coworkers and pastor at church told me so.

-Should we have universal healthcare?
-Yes. We should also enforce healthy lifestyle to reduce the healthcare expenses. Oh no, you mean that violates "personal freedumbs"? I'm a "nutsie", you say? Oh wow, oh my

[Endus]

Lol, i'll give you an example. Imagine 2 referendus, for both NO is considered a conservative vote, so, normally right winged, but a YES is considered a liberal vote, so left winged. Now imagine 2 guys, one votes NO for the 1st referendum and YES to the second, but the other guy votes YES for the 1st referendum and NO to the second. They both have mixed ideals, so, we can say they both centrists, except, they 100% antagonic.

This is impossible to use as an example of anything unless we know the issues being voted on and the two guy's rationales for their votes.

One or both of them being idiots who don't understand what they're voting for is an option you're excluding.

The normal thing for a centrist is voting in what they believe is better.

No, that's the normal thing for everyone. It is not remotely unique to centrism. That's nonsense.

This is as well the main reason why centrist parties aren't well succeed, they normally fall to the right or to the left, when that happens they form a political program which can be called an ideology.

That's not what "ideology" means, no.

Me, in the other hand, i vote for the merit of politics not for political programs.

That isn't an argument for "centrism" in any way whatsoever. Nor does it make you particularly unique. You're confusing terms like "partisan" for "ideological".

The way i see it, is that ideologies are meant to group people with similar ideas. My presunption however, is that other people from the same political spectrum has me, will most likely disagree with me.

You're defining everything in terms of whether you consider yourself a unique snowflake, not in terms of actual policy positions and structural viewpoints.

Being aggressively anti-partisan is just as irrational as being blindly partisan.

[Tuor]

@Endus

How many Republicans you know that always vote Republican Party even they disagree with the candidate?
How many Democrats you know that always vote Democrat Party even they disagree with the candidate?

I understand your PoV, but do you understand mine? I am not limited to just 2 single political parties, both with established ideologies. Got it? My vote goes for merit not for a stupid ideology.

Snowflake? It wasn't me that tried to establishe some sort of superiority, so, roger and out. I am not trying to influence anyone has i stated before in this thread, in other words, its not me that is defending the superiority of someone over someone's else.

[Egomaniac]

Theres no such thing as a true centrist. Centrists always lean to one side or the other. To be a true centrist one would be to have no opinions at all.

[Rozz]

Theres no such thing as a true centrist. Centrists always lean to one side or the other. To be a true centrist one would be to have no opinions at all.

Tbh I don't have high opinions of people who identify as such. They're either too privileged to be bothered by any issues touched by politics or too ignorant to understand how things affect them. Basically the ultimate "Lala land" club. You don't have to be polarised, but when many topics that impact everyday life end up on polar ends of the political spectrum and you say "both sides" or "neither side", it looks like rejecting reality. Lucky for those with enough money to do so. Pity for those too apathetic/uninformed to vote in their own interests.

[Egomaniac]

Tbh I don't have high opinions of people who identify as such. They're either too privileged to be bothered by any issues touched by politics or too ignorant to understand how things affect them. Basically the ultimate "Lala land" club. You don't have to be polarised, but when many topics that impact everyday life end up on polar ends of the political spectrum and you say "both sides" or "neither side", it looks like rejecting reality. Lucky for those with enough money to do so. Pity for those too apathetic/uninformed to vote in their own interests.

That's why I say there are no true centrists. A person might lean to the left on one issue and lean to the right on another...but they're still leaning. Anyone who claims to be a true centrist is just a coward that doesn't want to go on record.

As for partisanship...that's the opposite of ideology. You aren't standing for an ideal...you're standing for your tribe and if the ideal gets in the way of that...fuck the ideal.

[Endus]

@Endus

How many Republicans you know that always vote Republican Party even they disagree with the candidate?
How many Democrats you know that always vote Democrat Party even they disagree with the candidate?

Like I said, you seem to have serious trouble distinguishing between "ideological" and "partisan".

I understand your PoV, but do you understand mine? I am not limited to just 2 single political parties, both with established ideologies. Got it? My vote goes for merit not for a stupid ideology.

I'm Canadian. We don't have just the two parties, either. And my own ideology doesn't line up with any of them exactly.

So I repeat; you're talking about "partisan", but saying "ideology". They are not synonynms.

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Tbh I don't have high opinions of people who identify as such. They're either too privileged to be bothered by any issues touched by politics or too ignorant to understand how things affect them. Basically the ultimate "Lala land" club. You don't have to be polarised, but when many topics that impact everyday life end up on polar ends of the political spectrum and you say "both sides" or "neither side", it looks like rejecting reality. Lucky for those with enough money to do so. Pity for those too apathetic/uninformed to vote in their own interests.

Just for clarity; my points in this thread have very much not been to people who fall near the center, but people who identify as "centrist". It's a non-answer to any relevant question. If they have strong opinions on various defensible policy points, they'll generally describe their position with regards to those positions, particularly if they're not lining up with any particular political party. I would, for instance, describe Joe Biden as "centrist", but I don't believe he's ever described himself as "centrist".