How healthy is World of Warcraft's future?

[Relapses]

Not for me at least.

Sample size: 1.

Well, I guess I can't argue that.

[NineSpine]

Human beings have agency. Developers can change things without the cold hand of corporate guiding their decisions. If you refuse to acknowledge this possibility so that you can continue to live in a world where your carnal knowledge is more important than the actual firsthand accounts of the people making these decisions then I'm not the one trying to protect an ego here.

Have a nice day.

I'm too busy acknowledging reality to acknowledge your "possibilities".

Activision made a commitment, in writing, under threat of being fined tens of millions of dollars, to do things like this... and then they did it. You want everyone to believe that Activision committed to do this and then spontaneously it happened separate from Activision's commitment to do so. You are being comically unreasonable, and it is really really obvious that you didn't know the details of the settlement before you spoke and all of this is a really long-winded way to avoid stating "I didn't realize that the settlement required cultural changes at the company, and now with that information I realize this makes sense and I was wrong".

[Relapses]

I'm too busy acknowledging reality to acknowledge your "possibilities".

Activision made a commitment, in writing, under threat of being fined tens of millions of dollars, to do things like this... and then they did it. You want everyone to believe that Activision committed to do this and then spontaneously it happened separate from Activision's commitment to do so. You are being comically unreasonable, and it is really really obvious that you didn't know the details of the settlement before you spoke and all of this is a really long-winded way to avoid stating "I didn't realize that the settlement required cultural changes at the company, and now with that information I realize this makes sense and I was wrong".

Your "reality" is a conspiracy you've constructed to cope with the fact that there's a possibility that Blizzard might change something controversial for any reason other than the one you've predisposed yourself into believing. Jesus fuck, dude.

[NineSpine]

This entire thread is just a bunch of people quote blocking each other and giving themselves internet high fives for sharing their super unique opinions about the game being dead.

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Or, it could be, maybe, just maybe, that one game is simply more interesting than the other. (One might even infer that one's more popular.)

Nah. It's what you said.

We know by comparing steam data and twitch viewers that there is not any real correlation between popularity for players and popularity for streaming. Euro Truck simulator is one of the most played games on steam. Its like the 130th most viewed game on twitch. Civilization is in the top 30 on steam. It's around 270th on twitch.

[Relapses]

We know by comparing steam data and twitch viewers that there is not any real correlation between popularity for players and popularity for streaming. Euro Truck simulator is one of the most played games on steam. Its like the 130th most viewed game on twitch. Civilization is in the top 30 on steam. It's around 270th on twitch.

In other words, using twitch data to support any argument is bullshit. Okay. At least we agree there.

[NineSpine]

Your "reality" is a conspiracy you've constructed to cope with the fact that there's a possibility that Blizzard might change something controversial for any reason other than the one you've predisposed yourself into believing. Jesus fuck, dude.

My reality is Activision said they were going to change the culture of their company or else pay tens of millions of dollars, and that was followed by making changes to the culture of the company, so it is reasonable to tie those two things together.

This is like if I said I was going to go shopping, and then I went shopping, and then I insisted that the shopping is not connected in any way to my earlier statement that I am going to go shopping. It's absurd on its face.

If a court told me to give you $20M and then I did and then I insisted that I gave you that money for funsies and not because of the court, would you really take me seriously? Would you be a conspiracy theorist if you said "I think you did this because the court told you to".

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In other words, using twitch data to support any argument is bullshit. Okay. At least we agree there.

Yes, that is the point. Twitch tells you what is popular on Twitch. Steam gives you a non-comprehensive but still reasonable view of what games people are playing on PC.

[ArenaDk]

After playing new world for 100h. and FF14 for 200h I gotta say WoW is so far ahead to both in content and design, they can just stay like they are doing and will never have to fear the other MMO. They are design wise miles away from what WoW already has

[NineSpine]

After playing new world for 100h. and FF14 for 200h I gotta say WoW is so far ahead to both in content and design, they can just stay like they are doing and will never have to fear the other MMO. They are design wise miles away from what WoW already has

Sure, if you consider relentless temporary power, and content being deprecated every four months, as amaaaaazing design.

[Relapses]

My reality is Activision said they were going to change the culture of their company or else pay tens of millions of dollars, and that was followed by making changes to the culture of the company, so it is reasonable to tie those two things together.

This is like if I said I was going to go shopping, and then I went shopping, and then I insisted that the shopping is not connected in any way to my earlier statement that I am going to go shopping. It's absurd on its face.

If a court told me to give you $20M and then I did and then I insisted that I gave you that money for funsies and not because of the court, would you really take me seriously? Would you be a conspiracy theorist if you said "I think you did this because the court told you to".

This correlation is pointless. You cannot prove that the changes are a direct result of the settlement. And instead of simply accepting this, you've tried to claim that you have firsthand knowledge of the situation because of previous professional experience then doubled down on your observation being "obvious," when it's anything but. Again, I simply see no point in having a needlessly cynical take like yours when we already have firsthand accounts from the people who made the changes readily available to us.

[NineSpine]

This correlation is pointless. You cannot prove that the changes are a direct result of the settlement. And instead of simply accepting this, you've tried to claim that you have firsthand knowledge of the situation because of previous professional experience then doubled down on your observation being "obvious," when it's anything but. Again, I simply see no point in having a needlessly cynical take like yours when we already have firsthand accounts from the people who made the changes readily available to us.

It is not needlessly cynical to say "Hey, Activision said they were going to do this in the settlement, and now they are doing it, so it is probably because of the settlement." That is basic reason and logic.

Nothing I am saying conflicts with the firsthand accounts at all.

[Relapses]

It is not needlessly cynical to say "Hey, Activision said they were going to do this in the settlement, and now they are doing it, so it is probably because of the settlement." That is basic reason and logic.

Nothing I am saying conflicts with the firsthand accounts at all.

It is needlessly cynical when you then go on to support another baseless theory about "appeasing shareholders" after establishing that the only reason it got changed in the first place was because of the settlement. You want to fit these changes into a nice little narrative where Blizzard only ever changes things when they're forced to, and even then, they're only doing it because it encroaches on their bottom line. My position is that the humans developing the game have agency, too, and we're better off taking their word at face value.

[Recovery]

FYI,

People generally don't watch FFXIV streams much because a big part of the new playerbase does not want story spoilers. Or also perhaps a big part of the playerbase just does not like twitch or it's communities to begin with.

Also,ffxiv one upped wow on the "what the heck is even going on here" factor.

There's no way you can watch someone stream FFXIV and actually have a clue about what theyre doing unless youre extremely well learned on the game.

PVP, no idea whats going on. No way to tell whats going on. PVE > lots of bright lights and colors on the ground. FFXIV gameplay is not entertaining.

There are too many abilities in the rotations and the animations do no justice to tell what is even being used.

Final fantasy as far as an RPG story telling game = great. Final fantasy as literally anything else = bad.

[Shadowferal]

It is not needlessly cynical to say "Hey, Activision said they were going to do this in the settlement, and now they are doing it, so it is probably because of the settlement." That is basic reason and logic.
Nothing I am saying conflicts with the firsthand accounts at all.

Well, I certainly haven't heard it was "due to countless customer complaints over the years."
Of course then they'd have to show such complaints...

[Soon-TM]

Probably for the Memes

So far, only 12 people have voted for the first option. You can tell who they are just by looking at their comments ITT. Still, OP really should have made his/her poll public, if only for the associated lols and giggles

[NineSpine]

It is needlessly cynical when you then go on to support another baseless theory about "appeasing shareholders" after establishing that the only reason it got changed in the first place was because of the settlement. You want to fit these changes into a nice little narrative where Blizzard only ever changes things when they're forced to, and even then, they're only doing it because it encroaches on their bottom line. My position is that the humans developing the game have agency, too, and we're better off taking their word at face value.

I never said Blizzard never changes anything unless they are forced to. You keep ascribing things to be I never said, because you don't want to just admit that you are wrong.

There is nothing that the devs have said that conflicts with my assertion whatsoever. Quote me one dev who contradicts what I said.

[TidalConflux]

Probably a mix of option 2 or 3. Option 4 is a meme and is pretty clear that people have no idea what maintenance mode is.

[Relapses]

I never said Blizzard never changes anything unless they are forced to. You keep ascribing things to be I never said, because you don't want to just admit that you are wrong.

There is nothing that the devs have said that conflicts with my assertion whatsoever. Quote me one dev who contradicts what I said.

You have no fucking way to prove that the changes Blizzard developers made to the game are a direct result of the lawsuit. I'm not going to admit "I'm wrong" when you're arguing from a fundamentally unprovable position.

[Soon-TM]

You have no fucking way to prove that the changes Blizzard developers made to the game are a direct result of the lawsuit. I'm not going to admit "I'm wrong" when you're arguing from a fundamentally unprovable position.

No, there isn't anything... Other than Blizzard pledging to do X and Y in a legal settlement with the government, and then doing exactly X and Y.

Do you really need daddy Blizz to tell you that 2 and 2 is 4 instead of relying on your own skills at arithmetic?

[Relapses]

No, there isn't anything... Other than Blizzard pledging to do X and Y in a legal settlement with the government, and then doing exactly X and Y.

Do you really need daddy Blizz to tell you that 2 and 2 is 4 instead of relying on your own skills at arithmetic?

Again, many changes were datamined before the settlement was even a thing.

[Alydael]

After playing new world for 100h. and FF14 for 200h I gotta say WoW is so far ahead to both in content and design, they can just stay like they are doing and will never have to fear the other MMO. They are design wise miles away from what WoW already has

I have to agree. Not only that but think of content already in the game. Imagine if you were a player that never played WoW and your goal is to do every quest, run every dungeon and raid, get some experience in all the pvp modes, open the whole map and all the areas..... It's a lot just to type and it would literally take you years......

I think part of what people see in those games is: something new and a bit of the whole "grass is greener" thing. Plus WoW hate is always a thing (how many years have ppl in these very forums calling "WoW killer" or "WoW is dead" I remember when they were proclaiming Wildstar the "WoW killer," we know how that went...... Bunch of chicken littles "the sky is falling omg!") I played all three. FF 14 is too simplistic and slow paced for me. I like New World and think it has promise. It almost has a "survivalist" edge to it and I like how crafting is important. It's too early to tell but the game would need a lot of evolution to get to WoWs place.

In my opinion, the only current mmo that can really challenge WoW would be GW2. I also think GW2 is actually a better overall game and experience than WoW. It needs to organize its end game better though. Most people don't know how to watch the timers and evolve the maps, so most don't even really know what the end game is and think it is about collecting cosmetics (that's only the smallest part of end game).