How healthy is World of Warcraft's future?

[NineSpine]

1. Wow has actually leveling content
2. Wow has a challenging endgame
3. wow runs smooth

this 3 points are already where wow beats the other two and its the most important one. If you say FF14 has a challenging end game or New World has leveling contetn, Iam sorry. But you are just being a lier / hater

lolwat ff14 has more leveling content, plenty of challenging endgame, and it runs great.

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The question is pointless, which is why I'm not answering it. You immediately pivoted your position when the correlation you were observing failed to match the reality of what actually happened. Further, I'd really prefer if you'd stop implying that "I'm wrong," because I simply disagree with your cynicism.

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Or maybe they're just doing exactly what they said they were doing: Making a game which reflects the values of the current development team.

Can you quote a dev that contradicts me?

And it's amazing that you think that "Activision did this because of the settlement" is not an argument that has anything to do with the activision settlement.

[Gimlix]

Did you miss the entire walkout or does that not fly with your interpretation of the situation?

The amount of times I see people suddenly forget how much is going on overall with the scenario just so they can keep criticizing Blizzard is silly at this point.

They staged a walk out and have had several pushes for more changes, which can be seen by every time ActiBlizz put out a statement, there was usually a rebuttal from the staff criticizing why they think it's not enough.

Several devs were let go and the management even had to shift as a result of this. They're giving payouts to employees for having to deal with the situation. It's a constantly evolving situation which has never been limited to just WoW. Just because devs are also finally getting to change issues they had with WoW specifically doesn't suddenly mean the rest stopped existing. It's just a good sign that Blizzard is actually listening to the workers this time.

"Listening to the workers" they are listening to what is being said public and how much it can hurt their reputation. It has gone so bad that they are forced to take action not because they want to -.-

If it managed to escalate for soo long it mains the problem lies within the company and a big chance most of the people have to be let go to change it.
That means there is no one left to properly work on project (even though its already bad each release they done...) and it will just mean the end for Blizzard.

No matter what scenario, Blizzard has lost its last bit of face and will go downwards from this point.

They might try to change alot of things, but by the looks of it, we gonna get alot of nonsense changes that just adresses issue that make no sense like the stuff we have going on IRL with nonsense topics like BLM and LGBTQ+

[Jester Joe]

Can you quote a dev that contradicts me?

And it's amazing that you think that "Activision did this because of the settlement" is not an argument that has anything to do with the activision settlement.

The burden of proof would be on you to back up your claim, not to ask others for proof to dismiss it.

Either way, we've had devs coming out saying they did want this to be done
https://www.reddit.com/r/wow/comment...on_twitter_to/

So it's definitely not just a settlement thing.

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"Listening to the workers" they are listening to what is being said public and how much it can hurt their reputation. It has gone so bad that they are forced to take action not because they want to -.-

Except people are taking action because they want to.
As said, these changes that people are complaining about are coming from devs themselves wanting the changes-
https://www.reddit.com/r/wow/comment...on_twitter_to/

It did get bad enough to force a staffing change though, yes. But we have yet to actually see how these changes in staffing affect the game.

If it managed to escalate for soo long it mains the problem lies within the company and a big chance most of the people have to be let go to change it.
That means there is no one left to properly work on project (even though its already bad each release they done...) and it will just mean the end for Blizzard.

They did let go of the people who were involved. Keep in mind it's a big issue because it wasn't JUST Blizzard, but Activision as well.

Activision in fact was the one who had an employee commit suicide due to the way she was treated. That doesn't mean it's the end though for Blizzard, it's not as if they had to fire everyone and restart from scratch.

No matter what scenario, Blizzard has lost its last bit of face and will go downwards from this point.

It's overestimated how much this will end up doing for them honestly in the long run. It's still fresh now, but a few years down the road I'm sure there will be another company that draws the ire of the internet and this will fade into the distance.

Not that I'm saying that's good, but it's just the way it goes.

They might try to change alot of things, but by the looks of it, we gonna get alot of nonsense changes that just adresses issue that make no sense like the stuff we have going on IRL with nonsense topics like BLM and LGBTQ+

That's a bit of a yikes statement honestly, no offense.

[DSRilk]

Anyone thinking that this tempest in a teapot about paintings, emotes, flirts and the rest is going to have much of any effect on revenues is going to be disappointed. Only the very few paying attention to this give a damn about any of it.

The problem, as I see it, isn't that people out here are complaining about the changes or that anyone's going to quit over them. The problem is the atmosphere it implies now exists in the dev department. Obviously the original environment sounds horrible (for some of the workers) and needed to be changed, but the replacement seems to be one where devs are fearful of what they can or can't create or add to the game. Devs are like any artist or comedian. They need to be able to feel like they can push the boundaries a bit artistically; and developing in an environment where even an NPC name, painting, or common euphemism is enough to get your wrist slapped is not one where creativity can abound. This is totally possible while still being respectful of your co-workers.

For the record, I was never a fan of most of the removed content, but I'm glad the devs felt like they didn't feel tethered solely by what I would personally like to see. Any comedian worth their salt is going to make us cringe at a couple lines as they push us to the edge of, or even a little past, discomfort. Developers are the same. To be clear, I'm obviously talking about what they create story-wise in the game, not how they treat those with whom they work.

Oh, and to the OP... I liked Legion and BFA, but I dropped this most recent expansion after doing the main quest line. Combine that with the feel I get from the current WoW devs (based on what I read and what they're doing right now), and I'm assuming it's going down the toilet faster than before. I'd like to see it make a comeback so I could enjoy Azeroth again, but I would not put any money on it happening.

[NineSpine]

The burden of proof would be on you to back up your claim, not to ask others for proof to dismiss it.

Either way, we've had devs coming out saying they did want this to be done
https://www.reddit.com/r/wow/comment...on_twitter_to/

So it's definitely not just a settlement thing.

And what I said is that the company surely asked the developers to cite the things they'd like changed. That doesn't change why this is happening.

I already provided the proof: Activision signed onto a settlement that promised they would do these things.

[Jester Joe]

And what I said is that the company surely asked the developers to cite the things they'd like changed. That doesn't change why this is happening.

I already provided the proof: Activision signed onto a settlement that promised they would do these things.

You realize Activision is just one half of the company, right?

Also one of the tweets literally says this isn't coming from hire ups asking or pushing for it, it's coming from the devs pushing for it.

https://twitter.com/kenandstuff/stat...009864217?s=20

[Relapses]

And what I said is that the company surely asked the developers to cite the things they'd like changed. That doesn't change why this is happening.

I already provided the proof: Activision signed onto a settlement that promised they would do these things.

Can you prove that these changes wouldn't have happened had the lawsuit not existed?

[Dadwen]

IMO the current game has been crap and headed in a crappy direction still, they need to listen less to internal employees on game design and maybe listen to them more on matters of HR and employee policy and start listening to a better sampling of player feedback (not just streamers) for game design (even in the beta forums it seemed a lot of the feedback on issues was seen and ignored)..

[Aggressive]

[QUOTE=NineSpine;53415913]lolwat ff14 has more leveling content, plenty of challenging endgame, and it runs great.

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You Can't argue with trolls and idiots dude. That is why i never ever responded to him. He is one of those with Stockholm's syndrome. WoW in his eyes can and never will do anything wrong and will ALWAYS, ALWAYS be the best. Nothing will ever compare. That is why I quickly moved on from him.

[Relapses]

You Can't argue with trolls and idiots dude. That is why i never ever responded to him. He is one of those with Stockholm's syndrome. WoW in his eyes can and never will do anything wrong and will ALWAYS, ALWAYS be the best. Nothing will ever compare. That is why I quickly moved on from him.

Yeah dude, we're the ones with Stockholm Syndrome because you spend the better part of your day proudly posting on a WoW forum that you play games that aren't WoW.

[NineSpine]

Can you prove that these changes wouldn't have happened had the lawsuit not existed?

Nobody can prove a counterfactual.

If I was sentenced to five years of house arrest, can you PROVE that I wouldn't have stayed home for five years anyway? No, but if you conclude the court had nothing to do with me being home for five years, you are being dense on purpose.

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You realize Activision is just one half of the company, right?

Also one of the tweets literally says this isn't coming from hire ups asking or pushing for it, it's coming from the devs pushing for it.

https://twitter.com/kenandstuff/stat...009864217?s=20

It's not one half of the company. It's one company. There are no lines.

I didn't say executives demanded the changes. Try again.

[Shadowferal]

So the current developer values are that women = bowls of fruit and that women aren't allowed to show any cleavage? Are blizzard developers members of the taliban?

I was reminded of Disney's "Frozen" and her show of independence and empowerment.

[Relapses]

Nobody can prove a counterfactual.

I love it when people defeat their own arguments.

[NineSpine]

I love it when people defeat their own arguments.

That's not how it works. My argument is simple:

Activision signed a legal agreement to do a thing.
They did that thing.
Therefore, that thing was because of the legal agreement.

This is no different from:

The court ordered me to pay $200.
I paid $200.
Therefore, I paid the $200 because the court told me to.

If all you've got is "WELL YOU CANT PROVE THAT IN ANOTHER UNIVERSE IT WOULD HAVE TURNED OUT DIFFERENTLY!" and you actually believe that;'s a solid gotchha, lol ok.

[Relapses]

That's not how it works. My argument is simple:

Activision signed a legal agreement to do a thing.
They did that thing.
Therefore, that thing was because of the legal agreement.

This is no different from:

The court ordered me to pay $200.
I paid $200.
Therefore, I paid the $200 because the court told me to.

If all you've got is "WELL YOU CANT PROVE THAT IN ANOTHER UNIVERSE IT WOULD HAVE TURNED OUT DIFFERENTLY!" and you actually believe that;'s a solid gotchha, lol ok.

Buddy, I'm not the one claiming causation for something which cannot be proven. These changes could have been lobbied for by the developers for years. We have no idea how Blizzard works internally.

Let me ask this a different way: Why is it so important to you to prove that the changes are because of the lawsuit?

[NineSpine]

Buddy, I'm not the one claiming causation for something which cannot be proven. These changes could have been lobbied for by the developers for years. We have no idea how Blizzard works internally.

Let me ask this a different way: Why is it so important to you to prove that the changes are because of the lawsuit?

Truth is important.

The causation is that Activision signed a settlement explicitly stating they would make changes like this. I already provided the causation.

[Relapses]

Truth is important.

The causation is that Activision signed a settlement explicitly stating they would make changes like this. I already provided the causation.

Your "truth" is unknowable because you don't work at Blizzard.

Deal with it.

[Rustedsaint]

Somewhere between 2-3
Wow will never truly die as long as someone owns the ip. Regardless of what you think of the active numbers,people will be back every major patch/expac generating millions in revenue. The quality of the patches and player retention is another story.

[Takure]

Your "truth" is unknowable because you don't work at Blizzard.

Deal with it.

You need to get off the strawmans dick. Pathetic.

Do you even understand what stockholm syndrome is? YOU are the one with postive feeling towards your captor/abuser. Seems like you don't understand causality either. You might need to educate yourself. Nothing but a troll. Just another trash human-doing.

[Relapses]

You need to get off the strawmans dick. Pathetic.

Do you even understand what stockholm syndrome is? YOU are the one with postive feeling towards your captor/abuser. Seems like you don't understand causality either. You might need to educate yourself. Nothing but a troll. Just another trash human-doing.

I'm a "trash human" because I disbelieve some random ass dude's conspiracy theory?