What kept you playing WoW in the past? What made it fun to play?

[McNeil]

1. I had a lot more friends play the game with me and we had a very active guild speaking our native language. Nowadays pretty much everyone quit and only a few guildies occasionally come online for a bit.

2. I enjoyed doing raids a whole lot more because of the progression system, gear you get lasted way longer and they didn't overcomplicate bosses with way too many mechanics. Its why TBC and WotLK has some of the best raiding despite having some pretty bad raids (Hyjal and TotCG for example).

3. The game used to respect your time a lot more and I felt more free to do what i wanted to do. Nowadays if I want to do anything I first have to do X and Y before even attempting, like getting my renown to max and farming Torghast to get my legendary just so I can get to PVP.

4. We used to get much better quality and quantity content. Shadowlands feels like half the expansion that TBC and WotLK were.

5. The story was a lot better (at least in WotLK) and I was far more invested in its characters and zones.

[NineSpine]

Or maybe I simply disagree that it's a good system? Holy fucking shit.

Explain to me how something like a badge system that allows any casual player to target and obtain BiS gear over a long period of time makes the game less fun for you.

[Femininity]

Those unreasonable manchildren with this weird idea that the best gear at the game should come from the most difficult content. How dare there be commensurate rewards for commensurate content! Everybody should be equal in a video game!!!

Having a difference of opinion doesn't excuse behaving like petulant children. The loot queens at our level of play found themselves playing with different (read: less progressed) people, because we had zero time or tolerance for that drama.

[potis]

If what other people do in game doesn't affect you, I'm sure you will not complain if they give everyone a path to BiS gear.

It doesnt affect me negatively, helps me by gearing my weaker players, therefore less wipes on the harder bosses.

But it will also make me play less and probably go from 6 month sub to either 1-2 months or quit for good cause its not worth the time sacrifice, because what you fail to understand is that how the game is designed, the half decent players can be done with the game very fast.

Because of summer and vacations this time we were slower so progress took longer and it took 2 months to have decent gearing levels , instead of the usual 3-4 weeks, and we only do HC and weekly +15.

Game already becomes semi-boring by then and we only raid to keep the guild we have/fun going because generally the less active or skilled players take a bit longer or just repeater bad drops, plus an alt or two by 4 months in the patch, we stop playing till next patch where we regroup, but myself personally, i am done by the first month mentally and so are many others and its the personal sacrifice to keep our little community alive that keeps it going.

My point is game is already stupidly easy to reach a point where logging on even for the fun or friends iss irrelevant cause the game genre aka gear chasing has become null levels of difficulty. Cause its that easy.

SL changes were made for that reason, that after you actually put tiny effort the main goal is nullified.

One of my alts in BFA with the old M+ system, passed like 95% of characters in ilvl in 5 hours played with class/armor stack after it reached max level with some luck, cause it was that stupidly easy.

Ye obviously i was playing with geared friends and leeching drops they dont need anymore on the alts i already helped before but you get the point.

[Relapses]

Explain to me how something like a badge system that allows any casual player to target and obtain BiS gear over a long period of time makes the game less fun for you.

I already answered this question: I dislike BiS gear on a vendor. I'm okay with gear up to the Heroic item level being accessible to anybody but I don't think anything that's Mythic+ quality should be obtainable from doing WQs. Also, I'm fine with more deterministic options for gear but I feel like badges were too far in the non-RNG direction. It feels nice to get gear out of a dungeon instead of just a currency to go buy gear off a vendor instead. Badge gear doesn't "decrease my fun," I just personally feel the current system we have does a better job of making dungeons feel exciting.

[Nerovar]

PvP, RP, the world, the overall feeling of progression and getting better with your character.

In the earlier days of WoW, it felt like the game actually tried to be a world. Now it's just another game.

[Relapses]

Having a difference of opinion doesn't excuse behaving like petulant children. The loot queens at our level of play found themselves playing with different (read: less progressed) people, because we had zero time or tolerance for that drama.

It sounds an awful lot like you're using an anecdotal experience to paint a picture that's far more cynical than reality. Yes, shitty loot queens exist but to say that the only reason people clutch onto BiS gear is so they can mask their inability to play the game is fundamentally at odds with the fact that you have to play at a level decent enough to earn those rewards to get them first.

[Rustedsaint]

Guildies and having something to work towards

[NineSpine]

I already answered this question: I dislike BiS gear on a vendor. I'm okay with gear up to the Heroic item level being accessible to anybody but I don't think anything that's Mythic+ quality should be obtainable from doing WQs. Also, I'm fine with more deterministic options for gear but I feel like badges were too far in the non-RNG direction. It feels nice to get gear out of a dungeon instead of just a currency to go buy gear off a vendor instead. Badge gear doesn't "decrease my fun," I just personally feel the current system we have does a better job of making dungeons feel exciting.

"I don't think it should be that way" doesn't tell me why it makes it less fun for you if someone else is engaging with a system you do not.

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It doesnt affect me negatively, helps me by gearing my weaker players, therefore less wipes on the harder bosses.

But it will also make me play less and probably go from 6 month sub to either 1-2 months or quit for good cause its not worth the time sacrifice, because what you fail to understand is that how the game is designed, the half decent players can be done with the game very fast.

Because of summer and vacations this time we were slower so progress took longer and it took 2 months to have decent gearing levels , instead of the usual 3-4 weeks, and we only do HC and weekly +15.

Game already becomes semi-boring by then and we only raid to keep the guild we have/fun going because generally the less active or skilled players take a bit longer or just repeater bad drops, plus an alt or two by 4 months in the patch, we stop playing till next patch where we regroup, but myself personally, i am done by the first month mentally and so are many others and its the personal sacrifice to keep our little community alive that keeps it going.

My point is game is already stupidly easy to reach a point where logging on even for the fun or friends iss irrelevant cause the game genre aka gear chasing has become null levels of difficulty. Cause its that easy.

SL changes were made for that reason, that after you actually put tiny effort the main goal is nullified.

One of my alts in BFA with the old M+ system, passed like 95% of characters in ilvl in 5 hours played with class/armor stack after it reached max level with some luck, cause it was that stupidly easy.

Ye obviously i was playing with geared friends and leeching drops they dont need anymore on the alts i already helped before but you get the point.

If it will make you play less if other people are having fun, then the reason you are playing is some weird gross ego trip.

[Osmeric]

I used to think this. Then I played FF14 and realized that you can have all of the modern convenience features of wow and still have a great community.

What killed community is not LFG, but stratification with multiple difficulty levels and ratings.

[Relapses]

"I don't think it should be that way" doesn't tell me why it makes it less fun for you if someone else is engaging with a system you do not.

Dude, don't ask me my fucking opinion on something if you're just going to pretend like I'm not answering your question when I am. Either respond to what I'm saying or move the fuck on.

[sargentos]

I see both sides to the valor debate. I can't remember, but were weapons and trinkets excluded from valor/justice gear back then? Maybe Blizz can compromise and not have weapons and trinkets be obtainable with valor, as well as the rest of the valor gear be slightly below normal raid gear, then once a tier has been out for a few months, let players increase the ilvl of those pieces with valor? Or, valor gear is released a month or two after a raid comes out to make it more fair? Just throwing something out there.

I did find this on a reddit post from right before WoD debuted "They said that valor gear was intended as "bad luck protection" (if you didn't get a drop for a certain slot for weeks or months, you always had the ability to buy something) but the bonus roll system, with tweaks, will fill that role in WoD."

So I guess the weekly Vault and gear you can upgrade with valor is the alternative currently?

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Allright ill go in to this, i'll explain why Wotlk and Mop, i didnt play legion so ill just point on these :

Wotlk:

- The game basically was completely new for me, so the sense of discovering and exploring the world was absolutely overwhelming, and everything that came along with it.
- The class design and gameplay was super fun and engaging.
- Lore was 10/10, ost, zone design etc.
- The community was awesome, being this probably the most important aspect of the game, it actually made the things you obtained ingame to mean something, even if they didn't.
- Achievement system was new, arena was fun as hell, everything was new as i pointed before, most people around you were noobs so that made everything fun.


In the other hand, MoP. I played mop with an insane amount of hours in my back, so i think this is more interesting to read , why it was so good (or... why it was so good for me):

- I was a teenager.
- Class design was the best ever made in the game, along with wotlk.
- The incentives to play were huge, example, the challenge mode gold of dungeons (were the first mythics) rewarded you with an awesome looking set designed for each class.
- Raids, maps and zones were cool.
- PVP COMMUNITY. This was the biggest in this expansion, specially in 5.4. The arena / rbg bracket was incredibly alive, and the rewards were awesome. Chasing the +2.2 (aka red blood enchant), the 2500 gladiator tabards, and the pvp titles were cool af. I had many many friends playing and the competition was huge. I even remember watching the blizzcon tournaments at the time.


For me, after Wotlk the game changed, and rather than immersion and discovery i focused on competitive PVP and PVE(in cataclysm), it was still fun, pretty much because of the community. I never played Legion but i have the impression that it was kinda like MoP in that sense. I quit in WoD because the community was completely obliterated (idk if it was becase of the garrison...), thing is, the game doesn't feel the same anymore...

I hear ya. Someone earlier mentioned possibly merging more servers, I don't know if that would help with community or not, or even RP communities. I wasn't around for the opening of the Gates of Ahn’Qiraj, but maybe smaller scale events like that would bring more activity to a server(s)?

[Evolixe]

I was on, or maybe already over, the verge of quitting tbh. But I was picked up by a rather rad bunch of people that have me raid with them at a high level on a super chill 2 day schedule. Thats the only reason I'm playing the game right now. Because if it wasn't for the people around me the game would not be a satisfactory time spent tbh

[Femininity]

It sounds an awful lot like you're using an anecdotal experience to paint a picture that's far more cynical than reality. Yes, shitty loot queens exist but to say that the only reason people clutch onto BiS gear is so they can mask their inability to play the game is fundamentally at odds with the fact that you have to play at a level decent enough to earn those rewards to get them first.

Your interpretation is off-base. But I think you know that. I'm sharing my experience, which is shared by many who raided the same level. Just as with the streamer thread last month, I'm not going to engage with you any further. You tend to flag things as cynical in an attempt to downplay their validity, which isn't conducive to any kind of constructive discourse.

I was on, or maybe already over, the verge of quitting tbh. But I was picked up by a rather rad bunch of people that have me raid with them at a high level on a super chill 2 day schedule. Thats the only reason I'm playing the game right now. Because if it wasn't for the people around me the game would not be a satisfactory time spent tbh

This is my favorite answer here.

[sargentos]

That's intentional. Blizzard wants you to raid or do M+ to get better quality gear.

The only time I enjoyed WQs was Legion, only because of the chance at getting a legendary in my cache. Just crazy how much that has changed in SL, at least for me. It was something to do back then, now, not so much. If they bring back legendary drops, or valor currency, that could possibly fix it?

[Mr Crix]

I enjoyed playing as part of a large community working together getting to know one another and eventually clearing the raids...

The whole mythic hell even heroic thing came about as a natural side effect of always trying to improve. The game just slowly seemed to get worse from my perspective as it seemed to slide from taking down the big bad to getting the most loot.

Now it's impossible for me to get into alts where I used to have a stable of them or find anything I want to do but raid log from all the grinds. You can't just swap in an alt and run mythic raids anymore there is an entire month of legenthy chores to do first... it makes me a little sad tbh.

[sargentos]

I used to think this. Then I played FF14 and realized that you can have all of the modern convenience features of wow and still have a great community.

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If what other people do in game doesn't affect you, I'm sure you will not complain if they give everyone a path to BiS gear.

I don't know if easy is the word to use, and not to change this to a FF14 thread, but what is something "easy" WoW can do that FF14 is doing to make the community more lively? I have not played that game.

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When I had options that were fun to do. During legion, it was fun to try and farm artifact appearances. Even more so on a druid since it changed their whole look for feral and guardian.

MoP final isle is a prime thing I did for countless hours. Easy place to maneuver, yet had no flying. Didn't need it. The zone itself wasn't annoyingly designed and had all kinds of secrets, puzzles and treasures.

They basically need things like that. Unique transmogs, pets, toys and hidden fun things that are optional and can be done solo. Oh, and to not design the areas like a hot mess. The more annoying it is to traverse (lots of enemies with daze. Hills just Everywhere), the better.

Of course, all those are options and things you can do on your own time. We need more of that, imo.

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Wrath was great for me because of the emblems and vendors. The vendor had specific items and I could work towards them, and once I had them the character was done. Always felt like I was progressing towards a definite goal and it made playing multiple characters enjoyable. Also most of the zones had a nice sense of space and didn't feel cluttered or annoying, plus they really nailed the vibe with the visuals and music.

Next expansion: WoW Back to Basics? Maybe with an ease on systems and grinds it can get back to that? Who knows.

[aceperson]

even during the huge lull in content during wod, i kept playing because i found my class (hunter) extremely fun to play and i had friends i could enjoy playing with. my friends have almost all stopped playing, the content is boring and poorly designed, and hunter has been ruined and saying it's a shell of it's former self doesn't do what happened justice.

i went from enjoying most content and all of hunter to very little content and none of hunter. that's mostly what killed the game for me. having friends or not isn't that big an issue since i made all these friends when i had no wow friends to begin with. i could always find more people to hang with.

[Relapses]

Your interpretation is off-base. But I think you know that. I'm sharing my experience, which is shared by many who raided the same level. Just as with the streamer thread last month, I'm not going to engage with you any further. You tend to flag things as cynical in an attempt to downplay their validity, which isn't conducive to any kind of constructive discourse.

The plural of anecdote isn't data so I don't really understand what you're going for here. And yeah, I do flag a lot of shit as cynicism. Because that's what it is. This entire fucking forum is a bunch of beleaguered ex-WoW players complaining about how much better the game would be if only Mr. Blizzard designed the game specifically around their personal wants and desires. It gets old. Fast.

[sargentos]

even during the huge lull in content during wod, i kept playing because i found my class (hunter) extremely fun to play and i had friends i could enjoy playing with. my friends have almost all stopped playing, the content is boring and poorly designed, and hunter has been ruined and saying it's a shell of it's former self doesn't do what happened justice.

i went from enjoying most content and all of hunter to very little content and none of hunter. that's mostly what killed the game for me. having friends or not isn't that big an issue since i made all these friends when i had no wow friends to begin with. i could always find more people to hang with.

I enjoyed WoD for the classes I played and the profession system. The system they had to upgrade your crafted gear was great.