[Megathread] Star Citizen

[Easo]

All you have is your opinion and thats fine but done spout of complete nonsense just to try and prove your point, non of us know what goes on in CiG as a company so we dont know what they planned for to develop the game.

The fact is Chris has stated many times that he will not comprimise on the game and make it the way he wants to, its his game he can make it any way he wants to, star citizen will take as much time as it needs to be developed, its impossible to be made any faster than it currently is.

I love how you ignored his point about locking in the tech at some point (a standard approach and not his opinion, as you insinuated), instead of trying to always adopt the latest and the greatest, which slows down/resets progress done.

Go on, tell me how I am wrong.

[Kyanion]

I think the best part of this post is how it shows that since 2015 CiG has spend more every year then they made in backer money, which is why they have had to take in outside investments and why, despite raking in an obscene amount of money, if that money well ever dries up the company is going to be quickly ruined and SC will never release. Or like every other Chris Roberts project some other company will come in to buy and finish the game without him.

This is in a nutshell what so many of us are complaining about. We want a good SC game and 300+mil should have been enough for that, but somehow its not enough to get a pre-alpha off the ground. The problem, as always, is Chris and his decisions.

That is what I saw too with that graph, they are spending more than they make for the 4 year period the graph shows in 2015-2019. I can assume the trend actually changed in 2020 with covid and they likely made more money than they spent but I have to imagine 2021/2022 will look the same with spending more than they made.

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It's just a black hole of bullshit, best not to get sucked in too far. Though, I do enjoy reading the educated dunking.

I too enjoy the dunking that happens, it is the gift that keeps on giving in this thread.

[kenn9530]

snip

If a company spends 500 million regardless of development or marketing thats what the game cost, nothing will change that.

Star Citizen has released a playable version of the game and shows of a small amount of the work to the community, CiG has proven time and time again they can deliver the game the community wants. The community wanted to go for chris roberts expanding the game so thats what he done.

Also there is 2 games so the money is developing 2 seperate games.

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I love how you ignored his point about locking in the tech at some point (a standard approach and not his opinion, as you insinuated), instead of trying to always adopt the latest and the greatest, which slows down/resets progress done.

Go on, tell me how I am wrong.

There is no standard approach, if a new tech comes along during development that just would make a game better then it is just stupid not to implement it, game development has no set standard, there is a great deal of flexability in game development or things just wont work.

So yes you are wrong.

[Triceron]

If a company spends 500 million regardless of development or marketing thats what the game cost, nothing will change that.

Star Citizen has released a playable version of the game and shows of a small amount of the work to the community, CiG has proven time and time again they can deliver the game the community wants. The community wanted to go for chris roberts expanding the game so thats what he done.

Also there is 2 games so the money is developing 2 seperate games.

And the fact is, a similar amount of development resources and time yielded a fully playable RDR2 compared to a small portion of a playable alpha. If you want to compare the two games, then this is what you're comparing. Let's not forget, you are the one who chose to compare Star Citizen, an alpha state game that has spent hundreds of millions to achieve a tech alpha, while splitting their resources for an FPS mode that had its release schedule pulled, to a completely finished game like RDR2.

Facts are the facts, right? Then the fact is, Star Citizen continues to be vaporware. When will it realistically get released? 2025? 2035? All we know is as long as backers continue to throw money at the project, they will keep going at the pace they choose. Theres no commitment to releasing any actual product if they can already profit off sales of ships that aren't even playable.

[Shakzor]

If a company spends 500 million regardless of development or marketing thats what the game cost, nothing will change that.

Star Citizen has released a playable version of the game and shows of a small amount of the work to the community, CiG has proven time and time again they can deliver the game the community wants. The community wanted to go for chris roberts expanding the game so thats what he done.

Also there is 2 games so the money is developing 2 seperate games.

No, marketing is not "development cost". It is in the total cost, yes, but marketing is NOT required for a game go be completed in any shape or form. Marketing is purely there so a game sells more. It has 0 to do with the development itself and marketing people require absolutely 0 knowledge in development in order to market a game. A company can make a game for 100 million and market it with a budget of another 100 million, then it still means the development of the game cost 100 million. The marketing 100 could theoretically be cut entirely.
Stop pretending as if "total cost" and "development cost" are the same. They're not. Development cost is something that cannot be argued with and is set in stone, whereas marketing is entirely optional, it's just that AAA publishers know how important marketing is to sell more copies.

There is no standard approach, if a new tech comes along during development that just would make a game better then it is just stupid not to implement it, game development has no set standard, there is a great deal of flexability in game development or things just wont work.

So yes you are wrong.

No, it would be stupid to try to implement every new tech that releases. If a game in development is working and something new comes along, it'd be stupid to force it into the game, because it might completely break what is currently working and completely ruin off the schedule of the team. I'm not saying devs do not implement some new tech, but unless it's some actually amazing new tech that would increase the quality tremendously, they definitely do NOT get every new tech that releases, otherwise no game would ever finish because new tech comes out so often and they'd be forever trapped in a cycle of "implementing new tech > making it work > something new comes out > repeat". It makes more sense to plan a sequel or other game with the possibility of that improved tech in mind.
If things don't work, they definitely do not try and risk to ruin it further with putting in new stuff and if it's going smoothly, they definitely do not blindly put in whatever shiny new toy releases, because it might stop the devlopment in its tracks entirely if something goes wrong with it.

You continue to compare Star Citizien to something like GTA 5 or Cyberpunk (and continuously only those very few games, because they took a bit longer), purely because they're AAA (and therefore costly) and took long, but you're forgetting an absolutely crucial point. They finished. They went from concepts to actually complete games and that even in less time.

And also... could you stop with the "but wow cannot do massive numbers of players!"? What is "massive numbers"? Whatever that may be, the game is perfectly capable of having 40v40 battlegrounds, 120 people hammering on a world boss, have like 150 people engage in open world pvp at once and whatnot and that since it first released 15 years ago, versus only being able to have a maximum of like 50 people in one place in Star Citizien. Trying to argue that is just... silly. It's factual that you can have atleast double the amount of players on screen in other games without it crashing completely and burning down the servers and it's even more silly that you try to argue on a mainly WoW forum that WoW apparently is not capable of more...

[tikcol]

What am i wrong about where in retail WoW do massive amounts of players play in the same map, they dont because they are spread out amount multiple instances because the game cant handle it, last time large amounts of players grouped up in retail WoW was ICC event before shadowlands and that would lag out for ages and there was no more than 50 ppl.

The video also proves my point in the game not being able to handle too many players in one area even in less spell intensive versions such as TBC and classic vanilla. WoW can maybe handle 100 or so without too many issues and thats it.

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It is you who is ignorant, everything that is spent on game development and what it takes to release it is all factored in to its total costs, GTA 5 cost 265 million to develop and release, RDR2 cost over 500 million, those are just facts you want to ignore. No matter how hard you try and spin it thats how much it cost the company to develop and release a game.

The problem are blizzard services, not the code of the game gimping it.

Here take a look at this private server video from 2016

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HxoS3F9sB_M

They weren't paid hundreds of millions of dollars to create the infrastructure to allow that, neither were they a billion dollar company.

[Triceron]

No, it would be stupid to try to implement every new tech that releases. If a game in development is working and something new comes along, it'd be stupid to force it into the game, because it might completely break what is currently working and completely ruin off the schedule of the team. I'm not saying devs do not implement some new tech, but unless it's some actually amazing new tech that would increase the quality tremendously, they definitely do NOT get every new tech that releases, otherwise no game would ever finish because new tech comes out so often and they'd be forever trapped in a cycle of "implementing new tech > making it work > something new comes out > repeat". It makes more sense to plan a sequel or other game with the possibility of that improved tech in mind.
If things don't work, they definitely do not try and risk to ruin it further with putting in new stuff and if it's going smoothly, they definitely do not blindly put in whatever shiny new toy releases, because it might stop the devlopment in its tracks entirely if something goes wrong with it.

Exactly what happened to Duke Nukem Forever

[Littlechamp]

Must be the most boring citizencon ever.
Right now a school boy is telling us about Unreal Kismet, omg i guess CIG invented the unreal blueprints!

important update:
Players carrying boxes is an amazing feature, says a dev to other bored devs who act like they hearing what is said for the first time.

[Gorsameth]

Oh Citizencon is now? I have just 1 question about it that will determine the future of SC for the next few years.

How little detail did they give while talking about Server meshing? Do they finally have it working or is the game still fundamentally impossible.

[Barzotti]

Oh Citizencon is now? I have just 1 question about it that will determine the future of SC for the next few years.

How little detail did they give while talking about Server meshing? Do they finally have it working or is the game still fundamentally impossible.

Zero details, zero in-game demonstration. But they showed a shiny new ship, so it's all cool. Soon TM!

[Val the Moofia Boss]

Oh Citizencon is now? I have just 1 question about it that will determine the future of SC for the next few years.

How little detail did they give while talking about Server meshing? Do they finally have it working or is the game still fundamentally impossible.

Not a peep but right now I'm making GIFs of the new Pyro settlements. They are incredibly beautiful... which makes me frustrated that we have no ETA on when we can go there yet.

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Okay now they're actually talking about server meshing

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I don't make my GIFs too big and too long because otherwise it would take up a huge amount of bandwidth. The GIFs don't do the video justice. Seriously, please go watch it on Youtube in 4K. It looks amazing! Link:

Citizencon began with more talking about the Pyro star system (the 2nd star system in the game) and showing off concept art for it (lol, how many years has it been since it was announced? 4 or 5 years?). Still no ETA on when it arrives.

Pyro system spacestations will recycle the same tilesets from the Stanton spacestations, but with some touchups to make them look broken down. They actually sorta look like a lawless town. PLEASE LET THERE BE NO ARMISTICE ZONES! LET ME GET INTO FIGHTS WITH OTHER PEOPLE AT THE BAR!



"And that's pretty much Pyro stations" so we won't get any unique tilesets for Pyro spacestations? Just reused assets we've seen for the past 6 years?

More concept art for Pyro planets and environments, very little gameplay footage shown.

Yay they are finally adding planetary clouds.



Talking about the player built settlements. They're showing off concept art for the modules and throwing out ideas like how they could hook up to each other. No gameplay shown.

At this point, CIG must've spent millions in dollars in concept art. They just showed off hundreds of different images of concept art, almost all of it new, on top of the hundreds and hundreds of concept art comissioned for SC over the years (and that's just the stuff that has been released). Not that I'm complaining, but 2D concept art isn't the game. Hearing dudes talk about hypothetical gameplay ideas isn't the game. I would like to see actual gameplay, please.

Speak of the devil; Pyro system settlement gameplay being shown off.









The Pyro settlements feel very homely. I hated the sterile boxes of Stanton's settlements. Gives me a Morrowind/Tatooine vibe, with the stone buildings, rusted metal, colorful textiles, etc. I'd like to live here.

There will be a reputation system with these people. If you have no reputation with them, you won't be able to walk into certain rooms or buildings. If they really like you, they will allow you into those areas. If you are hostile to them, well... obviously they will want you to go away, and possibly shoot you. Their settlement is protected by a powerful missile system, so if you're hostile to them, you will want to land far away and approach on foot.

The items sitting in an NPC's inventory are actually sitting out in the world in his shop. If you buy something from him, he walks over to get it for you.



WOOHOO NO ARMISTICE ZONES IN THE PYRO SETTLEMENTS! YOU CAN PULL OUT YOUR GUN AND KILL PEOPLE WILLY NILLY! YES! YOU CAN ROB SHOPS!



Every NPC is no longer trying to kill you! Now some NPCs will try to flee or hide, or will cower and beg for their puny lives. (Right now NPCs are either docile or always trying to kill you, with no in between).



NPCs finally have schedules. They wake up, go to work, close up shop, go to bed, and sleep. Admiteddly basic but it's a start, better than what we have where NPCs just walk along their routes or stand at their counter 24/7.

There are ladders that let you climb up on the roofs. There is also ceiling access.

More objects randomly sitting around in the world that have physics that you can manipulate (right now it's very limited; they only really spawn as crates in specific missions).



Basic sound for stealth mechanics are being added to distract NPCs. (Can NPCs chase you up or down ladders now?)



You can use your blowtorch to enter the undercroft beneath the buildings.



They're implementing the disguise system from Kingdom Come Delieverance where you can dress up as the locals to lower your conspicuousness. It doesn't stop them from scrutinizing you and figuring out that you're a bad guy, it just makes it less likely.





OTHER NEWS

• New ship is the Origin 400i

• They're working on the Banu Merchantman

• CPU optimization

• Framerate optimization

• Renderer improvements

• Visual touchups to planets, ie rocks in contact with oceans or rivers have wet edges, foilage looks different depending on the season of the planet, etc.

• Rivers are finally being added. Lava rivers are WIP.

SERVER MESHING

• They talk about the concept of it again with nice visuals

• They're readjusting how their database works in order to prepare for the implementation of server meshing

• no eta

[Kyanion]

SERVER MESHING

• They talk about the concept of it again with nice visuals

• They're readjusting how their database works in order to prepare for the implementation of server meshing

• no eta

What a shocker. No eta.

[Val the Moofia Boss]

lmao forklift driver is going to unironically be a job you can take. (Right now, when you buy or sell cargo, it magically appears or disappears in your ship. You're going to have to physically move the cargo on or off your ship, either by doing it yourself, or hiring NPCs or other players to do it for you). Also, you're going to have to shop around and buy your own cargo containers to put your freight in.

*Shenmue flashbacks*



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If you're known for hunting criminals or doing missions for law enforcement, you won't be able to walk into GRIM Hex without being shot on sight.

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Right now not many players are being criminals, so as a short term solution they're going to ramp up the payout for doing criminal missions even more.

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They're going to do a Jumptown V2 event. They're going to spawn crates of extremely lucrative cargo with the hope that people will race to it and PvP over it. They know some people were frustrated that they missed the Ninetails event (ie it happening at 3 AM in the morning), so the Jumptown event will also be able to be triggered by players at any time. If one side is severely lopsided, they will add NPCs to help balance out the teams (again, temp solution for the current way SC plays, good chance it will be removed a few years from now).

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They want players to be able to log on and always see some event happening. They don't want players to log on and see "oh, no event is up? Guess I'll check back another time".

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They started working on the Xenothreat event in March 2020 and it took about a year for them to release it. It was an important because it allowed them to test larger battles. They also learned stuff that led to the creation of the revamped friendly fire system.

As the servers get better, they're thinking that they won't add more mobs to Xenothreat, but will instead make the AI more advanced and deadlier. Apparently advanced AI is a large performance drain on their servers.

New mission variations being added. Searching for a specific cargo container in a warehouse, bosses that only show up once all of their lackeys have been killed, etc. A new defense mission where you help NPCs hold a bunker from multiple waves of enemies, and you get bonus rewards for how many friendly NPCs survived to the end. (Honestly that sounds pretty fun).

Improved NPC AI is currently being prototyped. You will be able to tell NPCs to follow you, even to board your ship.

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Also, I missed that there were TWO new ships. The 400i, and the Liberator.

The Origin 400i is a medium sized ship coming in the next patch in a few weeks, patch 3.15. It's the ship shown off at the beginning of Citizencon. The exterior sorta looks like Lando Calrissian's ship from the EU. The interior seems to be very well laid out. Has a special storage bay for your Origin hoverbike (any other hoverbike won't fit). Costs $220. Buy now and you get lifetime insurance on it.

Looking at the stats for the Origin 400i, it seems to be a pretty good combat ship for its size. 2 turrets with size 3 guns. 2 forward facing size 4 guns that can be controlled by the pilot. Size 3 shield generator. Is faster than the connie so it's even harder to hit it. Only thing that sucks about it is that it can only carry 42 SCU of cargo, so if you want to be a trader you'll get more bang for your buck dropping $150 for the Freelancer MAX, which has 120 SCU of cargo. So basically if you don't do trading, this is a pretty good ship.




The Anvil Liberator is a very large vehicle transport for your tanks and missle trucks and stuff. The Liberator is on concept sale (means that it's not in the game yet and is just a JPG, you'll get it later. Hopefully). Buy now and you get lifetime insurance on it. Costs $500.



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Annnnnd that was Citizencon 2021. Lots of concept art. Clouds being added to planets and other small visual touches. Beautiful new Pyro settlement. More sandboxy gameplay as you can steal stuff, fewer safe zones, more physical objects in the world you can manipulate, stealth, etc. New mission types, reputation system, and NPC AI is in development. They're preparing to implement server meshing but no ETA yet.

It was okay. Better than last year's for sure, but not great. Wish they talked more about how actually far along server meshing was. Also, lolol no SQ42 news whatsoever.

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Also noticed they didn't show off any creatures either, despite them having said that they began working on them... what? 2 years ago? Seriously, what happened to that crab monster they were working on?

[Littlechamp]

Guys guys, you don't see the connection!
Server mashing will come with patch 4.00 so if you buy the ship 400i, it will be released sooner!

Turbulent is the best company all over the world for money laun.. sorry, server mashing.

[Val the Moofia Boss]

Now that I think about it, I wonder how much of the gameplay segment at the Pyro settlement was scripted. The sandstorm and Sandworm gameplay shown off 5 years ago was never added to the game. The Microtech infiltration mission shown off 2 years ago has yet to be added to the game. This Pyro settlement video doesn't show off anything too technically fancy, and they didn't have Chris presenting to overhype everything, but they've already fooled me twice so I have to wonder.

EDIT: *sigh* guess their utter silence on the actual progress of server meshing and SQ42 development... never gonna happen, is it. They won't admit that it's not coming.

[Gorsameth]

Shockingly for once Chris is keeping his word when in the chairman letter from dec 2020 he said SQ42 will no longer be talked about.

Besides, what is there to show? The game does not exist after all...

[Fuiking]

Guys guys, you don't see the connection!
Server mashing will come with patch 4.00 so if you buy the ship 400i, it will be released sooner!

Turbulent is the best company all over the world for money laun.. sorry, server mashing.

fyi, 400I is for 3.15. stop trolling.

[Jastall]

Shockingly for once Chris is keeping his word when in the chairman letter from dec 2020 he said SQ42 will no longer be talked about.

Besides, what is there to show? The game does not exist after all...

Nonsense! They have these monthly blogs full of empty technical jargon with nary even a screenshot, but that's obviously because the product is so close to being finished that they won't want to spoil anything! You just don't get it you ignorant philistine, SQ42 is a game unlike any other and...

OK I'm done, I couldn't keep a straight face any longer. If they had anything to show about SQ42 they would. SC gets gameplay trailers that may or may not be heavily scripted but at least it gets those showcasing new features. But the SP campaign can't get that after so many years of development? Shit isn't getting done because it doesn't get whales to pony up the moolah, unlike new ships and the promise of server meshing supertech that'll solve everything.

[Wilian]

Shockingly for once Chris is keeping his word when in the chairman letter from dec 2020 he said SQ42 will no longer be talked about.

Besides, what is there to show? The game does not exist after all...

What do you mean. It was already content ready back in 2016 and only had to go through bug smashing period!

[notaltacc]

That's right, star citizen backers don't actually care about the opinion of random joes without not real interest about their game.
Still, it's amusing to poke the holes in their pie in the sky theories and expose how little knowledge they have despite acting all wise and know it all.

You know it’s going to be good when you completely ignore his point and start by talking for an entire community, saying that you don’t care about the opinion of random joes, when you purposely made an account on this forum to argue and insult those random joes over their opinions on this project. Also, “poking holes in sky theories pie’s” is an awful exaggeration to what you actually been doing here this entire time, it’s like calling two simians inside a cage flinging excrements around a Broadway show.

Though, it is odd that it always seems to boil down to a weird flex about how much money a small group of people are throwing at a company of some unreliable fat cat that has yet to finish a product, just don’t forget that considering that at the current speed, you probably still have some 10-20 extra years of development ahead of you, and if for some reason it ends the same way his last project did, it might turn into one of those situations...

“Dec 2012”… hum, Kenn didn’t seem to mind it back then.