Is D2R the best ARPG in the last 10 years?

[Kalocy Jim]

Can you elaborate? People are acting liking this "Kalocy Jim" guy is secretly a villain and not a real D2 enthusiast like many of us. Quite frankly it's baffling.

I really enjoy the game. It's brought back a ton of nostalgia and with the QoL changes they made, and may make in the future, I feel like I can get a lot out of this game in terms of pure entertainment to the tune of hundreds of thousands of hours.

I also downloaded a single player mod of the game that is pretty awesome so far. I still need to progress into nightmare and hell difficulties on my SP characters, but they are coming along nicely. Thats where i do my solo-self found builds. All my online builds are full trade builds.

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You can "do anything" in D2 because the game never ramps up to any significant difficulty. You can "do anything" in D3 too, if you just want to sit in Torment-whatever and go farm Diablo or something, like you'd be doing in D2 because there's really nothing else to do.

The only functional difference is that D3 gives you the option of the ramping difficulty that eventually insists on a stronger, coherent build.

Most players can get to hell difficulty, but once those immunities of certain damage types start kicking in, players have to do a lot more and be a lot more creative to get through the acts.

MrllamaSC is a good resource to help players get through their first playthrough (all the way to killing Hell Baal). He has a ton of resources on playthroughs with basically every class.

[Garretdejiko]

Can you elaborate? People are acting liking this "Kalocy Jim" guy is secretly a villain and not a real Diablo enthusiast like many of us. Quite frankly it's baffling.

Are you asking me to "derail" the thread even more?

Harassing posters in a personal way is derailment which is against the rules.

You can just do what @reyy14 suggested. Judging by your post count, you should have figured it out by now.

[Triceron]

(Look at MOBAs - good people don't play them, only morons who live by offending others)

ehhhh........

[Beefhammer]

Not really I view that as a kind of misunderstanding, it's not about "hate" it's about judging a *re-master* in a rational manner. Most of the criticisms of D2R haven't been criticisms of D2R's aesthetic value. They've been criticisms of the original D2 design and internet connection issues.

It only makes sense to judge the game Vicarious Vision created based on things they actually had a significant amount of control over. Most of the valid criticisms are just about small things that can still be added to the game.

If you have spent as much time as I have on various Diablo forums, it is definitely treated as hate. To many of the D2 sycophants, saying something like you didn't enjoy the limited stamina meter, it was treated as hate towards the game, often times getting someone who loved D2 outside of that one issue, a hater of the game.

As for D2R specifically, I played the beta, it was the same game I played 20 years ago, with a major graphical upgrade, which I enjoyed, a major FPS increase which smoothed out the combat in a way I liked, but ultimately, it's not enough to make me want to revisit a game that still feels outdated.

[PC2]

Are you asking me to "derail" the thread even more?

You can just do what @reyy14 suggested. Judging by your post count, you should have figured it out by now.

How can I "figure out" what you're talking about if you won't explain anything whatsoever?

Is this about the Blizzard sexual harassment issue? Vicarious Vision is separate from Blizzard, most of the people are different as far I know. You should only judge a game based on its independent merit and not based on associations.

[Manniis]

Made an account for this. I feel like this guy asked a question and many people got "triggered over it lmao..

I never played OG Diablo 2, sunk thousands of hours into D3 since it launched and had a great dumb time all the way through. I bought D2R on launch and im playing it non stop as well.

D2R reminds of why i play Fallout 1,2,3 or New vegas over Fallout 4 or 76. You can tell those games were made with great vision and passion from the developers, while the latter two games are made to attract the "gaming journalist difficulty types and they lack the depth the other games. But you still see people defending fallout 4 to death and this argument flies over their heads like "this is muh opinion and thats it. This is just an argument for two very different type of gamers who enjoy different levels of depth and challenge i reckon. For me its D2 over D3 and its not even close and no its not the best ARPG but it sure as hell is more entertaining than D3 in my opinion

[Skorpionss]

It's not even close, While D3 is flawed and some elements are better in D2, it's still a vastly superior experience for the simple fact that you don't have to quit and re-make the lobby 10000 times to farm items the most efficiently (while only killing a single boss ofc). Glad they did away with that design holy shit.

[chiddie]

Made an account for this. I feel like this guy asked a question and many people got "triggered over it lmao..

I never played OG Diablo 2, sunk thousands of hours into D3 since it launched and had a great dumb time all the way through. I bought D2R on launch and im playing it non stop as well.

D2R reminds of why i play Fallout 1,2,3 or New vegas over Fallout 4 or 76. You can tell those games were made with great vision and passion from the developers, while the latter two games are made to attract the "gaming journalist difficulty types and they lack the depth the other games. But you still see people defending fallout 4 to death and this argument flies over their heads like "this is muh opinion and thats it. This is just an argument for two very different type of gamers who enjoy different levels of depth and challenge i reckon. For me its D2 over D3 and its not even close and no its not the best ARPG but it sure as hell is more entertaining than D3 in my opinion

They are similar but different. D3 is more fast paced and encourages rerolling, D2 is slower and more difficult even in the first run, you just can’t steamroll everything like in D3 at normal difficulty.

Also all the classes are quite fast at leveling in D3, while in D2 some classes are really a pita to level up to a certain point and maybe I’m mistaken here because last time I played D2 was early 2000, but there’s no gem of ease of some sort or huge XP buffs to reach 75 relatively fast past the first run.

I just enjoy both for what they are. Above all the fact that gear is not important, not in the sense it does not matter (it does A LOT) but everyone can obtain near to max level gear even without doing GR150 or the D2 equivalent, and nobody cares, while in WoW it’s the exact opposite and players are more interested in preventing people from obtaining top gear without doing the “difficult” stuff instead of simply stopping care about what others do and do difficult content for the sake of doing it, like in ARPGS.

[Triceron]

How can I "figure out" what you're talking about if you won't explain anything whatsoever?

Look at OP's started threads. Click his name, click 'View started threads'.

It explains a lot about what this thread is really about. Whether hopelessly optimistic or thinly-veiled trolling, most of his threads tend to be bait threads for utter pointlessness. They're not really made to foster any legitimate discussion.

I'll give you the couple legitimate topics he's created, but that's about it. The rest are the conversational equivalent of asking 'Who is your favourite child'

[PC2]

I feel like this guy asked a question and many people got "triggered over it lmao..

lol I know it makes me feel like there's something wrong when there's so many people who are so easily aggrieved over a measly videogame. Especially when Vicarious Vision made the safest most straight-as-an-arrow remaster you can make.

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Look at OP's started threads. Click his name, click 'View started threads'.

It explains a lot about what this thread is really about. Whether hopelessly optimistic or thinly-veiled trolling, most of his threads tend to be bait threads for utter pointlessness. They're not really made to foster any legitimate discussion.

I'll give you the couple legitimate topics he's created, but that's about it. The rest are the conversational equivalent of asking 'Who is your favourite child'

What does that have to do with the topic? This is a perfectly legitimate thread where we can discuss D2R. If you don't truly enjoy these conversation about our shared interest then just don't enter this thread and pick a different conversation that you do enjoy.

[Triceron]

What does that have to do with the topic? This is a perfectly legitimate thread where we can discuss D2R. If you don't truly enjoy these conversation about our shared interest then just don't enter this thread and pick a different conversation that you do enjoy.

It has everything to do with the topic.

It's a subjective answer which everyone can easily acknowledge, and the discussion simply ends because generally speaking, we all acknowledge that D2 isn't the best ARPG in the last 10 years.

Yet posing the question in this way in this forum simply opens up 'triggering' people, knowing this particular subforum is filled with different ARPG enthusiasts. It's like gathering the family around for Thanksgiving and asking who everyone voted for. You can call it a legitimate question if you want, while the rest of us can criticize it for being a thinly veiled bait threads just as well. Such are the ways of public forums, and you're not exactly the forum police here and none of us are exactly telling you what you should be doing if you don't 'truly enjoy' the discussion at hand.

Either way, what really is there to discuss here? D2 isn't the best ARPG. There are other ARPGs out there since in the last 10 years that are arguably better. That's about it.

Keep in mind that this thread was not posed asking what people think is the best ARPG. It's not asking what people think about D2R in general. It's specifically worded in the best way to stir the pot. And to be honest, it didn't really break out into any big back-and-forth arguments since most people here agree D2R already isn't the 'best ARPG in the last 10 years'.

[Gadzooks]

D3 was an insane success. It sold over 30 million copies. I think it was the most sold video game for 3 years straight - surely not because of a few fans.

There are many try hards - including in this thread - who will just stick their fingers in their ears and go "LA LA I CAN'T HEAR YOU" when you bring up stats like that. They will insist D2 is the best, no matter what, to their last day.

I played the ever-loving snot out of D2. Multiple mule accounts, massive stashes of gear and runes, etc. It was a blast. But I moved on.

I played D3 at the start, and hated it. But Loot 2.0 and the expansion was worth diving into, had a blast, played the snot out of it, and dipped into seasons here and there when I got the Diablo itch. But I moved on.

I want D4 to be good. We'll see. But I've tried other games, and have had fun - PoE took me a while to get into, but now that I've completed the story and tried the endgame, I have a vastly bigger appreciation for the game, and would recommend it. I don't care about meta, because I'll never invest the hours to get to where that matters. I can spend plenty of time in the mid game and never have a single complaint.

I tried D2R on the free weekend. It's prettier. But I couldn't do it. It's paced so slow to me now. I remembered how much I hated the "retrieve your shit when you die" mechanic. I remembered the stash space issue. Uninstalled, never looked back. But hey, if you never played it, and get as many hours out of it like I did back in the day, go for it. But I moved on.

My preferred kind of game now is the Wasteland games. The loot piñata style games like Diablo have their place, but I'm not in that place these days.

Are D2, D3, PoE or any other games bad? Nah. They're great. But there will always be those guys with massive sticks up their asses that will refuse to budge from their opinion, like the guys with telephone poles up their backsides that Fallout New Vegas is the only game worth playing (I played it, it's fine), but Fallout 4 is utter trash and not worth playing (I played a LOT of Fallout 4. It's flawed, but still had a LOT of fun with it.). I posit that has more to do with emotional/developmental issues with them, than the game, and they've fetishized the game to an absurd degree. It's a fine game, parts of it are really good. But the excessive...worship of it is off the charts. D2R seems to be edging into that same territory, which is sad.

My steam account and drive are full of games that would make some try hard lose his shit over, but you know what? Don't care. I play what I like. Always will. Most people should do the same - try D2R or D3 or PoE because you're curious, not because some random with anger and blurting issues on a internet forum has an opinion.

[PC2]

There are many try hards - including in this thread - who will just stick their fingers in their ears and go "LA LA I CAN'T HEAR YOU" when you bring up stats like that. They will insist D2 is the best, no matter what, to their last day.

I played the ever-loving snot out of D2. Multiple mule accounts, massive stashes of gear and runes, etc. It was a blast. But I moved on.

I played D3 at the start, and hated it. But Loot 2.0 and the expansion was worth diving into, had a blast, played the snot out of it, and dipped into seasons here and there when I got the Diablo itch. But I moved on.

I want D4 to be good. We'll see. But I've tried other games, and have had fun - PoE took me a while to get into, but now that I've completed the story and tried the endgame, I have a vastly bigger appreciation for the game, and would recommend it. I don't care about meta, because I'll never invest the hours to get to where that matters. I can spend plenty of time in the mid game and never have a single complaint.

I tried D2R on the free weekend. It's prettier. But I couldn't do it. It's paced so slow to me now. I remembered how much I hated the "retrieve your shit when you die" mechanic. I remembered the stash space issue. Uninstalled, never looked back. But hey, if you never played it, and get as many hours out of it like I did back in the day, go for it. But I moved on.

My preferred kind of game now is the Wasteland games. The loot piñata style games like Diablo have their place, but I'm not in that place these days.

Are D2, D3, PoE or any other games bad? Nah. They're great. But there will always be those guys with massive sticks up their asses that will refuse to budge from their opinion, like the guys with telephone poles up their backsides that Fallout New Vegas is the only game worth playing (I played it, it's fine), but Fallout 4 is utter trash and not worth playing (I played a LOT of Fallout 4. It's flawed, but still had a LOT of fun with it.). I posit that has more to do with emotional/developmental issues with them, than the game, and they've fetishized the game to an absurd degree. It's a fine game, parts of it are really good. But the excessive...worship of it is off the charts. D2R seems to be edging into that same territory, which is sad.

My steam account and drive are full of games that would make some try hard lose his shit over, but you know what? Don't care. I play what I like. Always will. Most people should do the same - try D2R or D3 or PoE because you're curious, not because some random with anger and blurting issues on a internet forum has an opinion.

I mean you didn't offer any real criticism of D2 here except that you implied that you like faster paced games and D2 can go at a slower pace depending on your build and skill level.

It's like complaining about the mechanics of Pac-Man in one of the many Pac-Man remasters. Older more limited games are what they are, it doesn't mean older games are bad games and that you should "move on" and never re-play them. It just means games improve over the decades and newer games are better.

[Super Kami Dende]

D3: Reaper of Souls came out in 2014, which means its still within the last 10 years, so no D2R is not.

[Kyanion]

D3 is trash compared to D2R or Path of Exile.

PoE sucks out loud. See we both have opinions.

[littlefoote]

Even though its a remaster of a classic, i'd say its one of the best if not the best ARPG in the last 10 years or so.

Everything about the game is for lack of a better term, amazing.

I did not think i'd be playing as much D2R as I have. Really good investment for the money imho.

Blizzard and Vicarious Visions really outdid themselves on this one.

I would like to introduce you to a game called grim dawn. We also have games like last epoch and lost arc while still in early access is much better. (This is coming from a Diablo fan boy).

[Toby451]

D2R was absolutely terrible to me. It felt like playing a 20 year old game that should have been left in the museum.




PoE, Last Epoch, D3 (and I dont even like D3), Grim Dawn, Minecraft dungeons, torchlight 1-3, Wolcen and probably many more I have played over the years and forgotten about are pretty much all better in my eyes and many of those games I don't think are particularly good. If you disagree thats fine, not saying my opinion is better than anyone elses. But just as a fan of the ARPG genre in general, and someone who was not blinded by Nostalgia from having played D2 back in the day, it was an absolutely terrible experience. I played it around 8-10ish hours and was bored to death the entire time. I would have stopped sooner but my friends kept telling me to keep pushing, it gets much better later on. But finally after around 10 hours I just gave up.





I really wish they had released 2 versions of the game. The current version that stays true to the original game and then a Version 2 with lots of more modern changes. Oh well. After experiencing D3 and now D2R I have decided not to pre order D4 though. If the reviews aren't glowing I will be skipping that game altogether.

[Agrias2x]

I got bored of it after 2 weeks. Sadly the balance is just terrible and there is no real use for the gear you grind.

[TEHPALLYTANK]

diablo 3 is complete and utter garbage. gamers fled it years ago. no one plays it. it was so awful they cancelled the second xpac. dont let d3 fans fool you.

Can you please cite literally anything remotely substantial that suggested that D3 was ever slated to have a 2nd expansion?

I've seen this claim a couple of times before, and when I ask people where they heard/saw it they proceed to go silent instead of posting any sort of source to support the claim. I have seen absolutely no evidence supporting the assertion that there ever was a 2nd expansion planned for D3, and nobody has been willing to even attempt to substantiate their claim. I do find it plausible that they would cancel a 2nd expansion, but I've seen no evidence ever provided that suggested a 2nd expansion was even planned for D3.

[Elbob]

PoE instagibs people all the fucking time. There's whole threads in this very forum about it (well, in the megathread), by people who play it for years now. One of the major complaints is that the right way to build is only one way to build. Diversity in the top tier builds is limited to a few and those builds all share a great deal of the requirements among each other. PoE offers the Illusion of great creativity and diversity, but fell for its own trap, by making characters faster and stronger than anything in the game, so they had to counter with inevitable spike damage and by inevitable I do not mean you can't negate it, I'm talking about being in a situation you cannot get out of, because it will happen so fast, you won't have time to react. That's why everything in PoE is about passives. It used to be great design, now it's just lame design.

In D2, my decisions in that moment matter. Even though I can die fast, it's never faster than your reaction timer and when you die, you know what killed you. PoE has unreadable affixes and suffixes on monsters, doesn't properly convey danger, like D2 would with Conviction Aura, it just smacks you right in the middle and throws it all at you at once and you either shrug it off, or you die.

D2R HC SSF actually doesn't feel bad, because I'm in control of my own fate. Until I get smacked by mana burn and drop dead in the middle of a champion pack, but that has yet to happen.

Again PoE instagibs are due to your char being built incorrectly or not responding properly to mechanics. People like Ziz have nonstop vids of their rips where he talks about what he did wrong. Now I can't say I've watched all of them but I have never once seen him say that one of those deaths was out of his control. Its usually disrespecting a mechanic or not noticing something. Now a fair criticism is that it can be hard to distinguish all the mechanics because of how many systems you usually choose to stack on one another(including mob density) or how it is hard to determine what killed you in the visual clutter, making learning from your mistakes difficult without recording yourself and watching it back. Most people complaining about instagibs are just softcore andys running around with 4k life and dashing into packs then ???? when they die and blame the game.

As for build diversity, I addressed this in my first post but you neglected to respond to it cause reasons. I'm pretty sure PoE has more builds that have killed A8 Sirus then D2 has in spells in general. Some of these builds take A LOT of investment or VERY good play but doesn't mean they aren't capable of completing the game. The whole 'viable build' discussion comes from the top end where there are clear front runner builds better at content then others. While I feel for this problem its 100% different then actual viable builds.

PoE is def more ripy then D2 in speed of deaths but thats also player choice. D2 doesn't even give that choice. When you get mobs immune to your dmg type, tough luck... just run from them XD. Where in PoE you can choose to do easier maps or easier affixes on those maps. Next time you play PoE run just base maps and don't juice them at all, they won't be ripy at ALL.