Some Flirts and Jokes Removed on the PTR, Fathom Dweller Available in NA, DLC #791

[Dhrizzle]

Considering Blizzard literally referenced in their explanation of that encounter:

They actually incorporated that aspect into the game, which i think is overall good, rather than pretend that a given gender doesn't exist because Blizzard was too lazy to create a female model (still waiting for those female ogres).

Now those are just...there, those are the only two female Mogus and nobody addresses this, which is just odd.

I don't see this as a removal of pop culture references, only those that may have sexual implications.

Disregarding that only a minority are "obviously out-of-world humour".

Why wouldn't a female dwarf joke about her thighs, for example?

Please, as long as Cata Westfall or Uldum exists in their current form (and those are just the tip of the iceberg as far as "a bit too much on nose pop culture reference" is concerned), playing the "pop culture reference" card is just damn stupid, the vast majority of those changes aren't even a reference to pop culture.

You admitted that you haven't looked over all of those changes, now i implore you to look over those changes made over the past weeks, come back and tell me whether the vast majority of those are "obviously out-of-world humour".

You're vastly overestimating how important I find this issue, I was just trying to help someone understand why someone might enjoy fantasy escapism but dislike random, out of context dick jokes being included. I'm not gonna trawl through a load of inconsequential changes trying to figure out why the outrage crew are up in arms because I can't be bothered.

Also judging by the people replying "according to your logic" followed by something completely different to what I'm saying this seems like a completely fruitless discussion to take part in.

[bloodkin]

That's the opposite of what I was saying.

My bad, but most of the context of the removed content doesn't fall neatly in the line of oneliners and throwaway 4th wall breaking jokes, it's far more invasive and I recommend to look up what the devs are actually removing.

[Kralljin]

You're vastly overestimating how important I find this issue, I was just trying to help someone understand why someone might enjoy fantasy escapism but dislike random, out of context dick jokes being included. I'm not gonna trawl through a load of inconsequential changes trying to figure out why the outrage crew are up in arms because I can't be bothered.

Seems just like a silly excuse to now get out of the discussion.

People pointed out that in a world where war and violence are pretty dominant, it's by no means illogical to also find a sex joke in there and thus they cannot reasonably take "someone out of the fantasy".
Then you said it's about pop culture references.
So people have pointed out that not pop culture references seems to define removal, but rather their sexual aspect.
Now you say, you actually don't care enough about the subject, hence haven't done the "research" in order to engage the argument others are presenting but still felt the urge to disagree with them.

But if you don't care, i'll be glad to not read any more comments on that subjects or see any replies to comments from the "outrage crew" from you.

[ArthasFanboy]

So now said "green skin" to the orcs is racist. Even though they don´t really exist.
It´s part of their lore that they have been treats with such prejorative names, making them a people that want to get freedom from the stereotypes of those who didin´t know them well like was the alliance after the second war. The use of that term make them even a greater thing, because represent the trials they have to endure to be accepted in the society. The novel "Lord of the clans" explain that clearly enough.
what a kind of BS change

[bloodkin]

Seems just like a silly excuse to now get out of the discussion.

People pointed out that in a world where war and violence are pretty dominant, it's not by no means illogical to also find a sex joke in there and thus they cannot reasonably take "someone out of the fantasy".
Then you said it's about pop culture references.
So people have pointed out that not y pop culture references seems to define removal, but rather their sexual aspect.
Now you say, you actually don't care enough about the subject, hence haven't done the "research" in order to engage the argument others are presenting but still felt the urge to disagree with them.

But if you don't care, i'll be glad to not read any more comments on that subjects or see any replies to comments from the "outrage crew" from you.

That's the thing with most of wow's playerbase, it's fragmented with players thinking others are just qq'in about yet another change they aren't happy with, and think that because they don't care, it's ok. Untill, eventually blizz changes something they don't like themselves and all of a sudden they're in the same boat as the people they scoffed at but feel that they can't engage, because that would mean admitting that they were wrong to stay silent and obedient while other already saw the signs on the wall. It's a common joke that wow players qq about the current xpac and that the last one was great, but this isn't the case anymore, wow has been in a decline for a while and the more observant players have seen this and are scoffed at for pointing it out. Although it seems that more players are becoming aware of the issue, the divide seems only larger, with fanboys going apeshit if you dare to point out anything negative. The exact same thing is also happening in the 40k fanbase, where it's only progressing more slowly.

[Dhrizzle]

Seems just like a silly excuse to now get out of the discussion.

People pointed out that in a world where war and violence are pretty dominant, it's by no means illogical to also find a sex joke in there and thus they cannot reasonably take "someone out of the fantasy".
Then you said it's about pop culture references.
So people have pointed out that not pop culture references seems to define removal, but rather their sexual aspect.
Now you say, you actually don't care enough about the subject, hence haven't done the "research" in order to engage the argument others are presenting but still felt the urge to disagree with them.

But if you don't care, i'll be glad to not read any more comments on that subjects or see any replies to comments from the "outrage crew" from you.

Y'know you don't actually need an excuse to get out of internet discussions? You can just stop replying when you get bored of it and you're out. I answered a simple question about how someone can like one thing but dislike a different thing. I really can't be arsed with half a dozen other people bringing up a load of other examples.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

So now said "green skin" to the orcs is racist. Even though they don´t really exist.
It´s part of their lore that they have been treats with such prejorative names, making them a people that want to get freedom from the stereotypes of those who didin´t know them well like was the alliance after the second war. The use of that term make them even a greater thing, because represent the trials they have to endure to be accepted in the society. The novel "Lord of the clans" explain that clearly enough.
what a kind of BS change

I’m personally still leaning towards it being a copy right issue with gamesworkship as it’s the only change that stands out as having nothing to do with sexual things and no other ingame racism has been changed.

[Relapses]

Don't care at all about the things they remove, they are all cringe to me, I do care about the tone of the game though and what is possible in the future. I don't think going all out "safe for small children" in one department, while going full on hardcore adult in another makes for a congruent setting.

FWIW, I agree with you to an extent there. Some of these changes are pretty batshit and probably too far in the PC camp. But at the same time, I understand the context and reasoning behind it so I'm not overly upset. And it may have some net-positives for future players. I certainly don't see this alienating anybody who wasn't already looking for reasons to be upset with Blizzard anyway.

[Martymark]

It's interesting how gender equality is almost never about equality for all, regardless of gender, but more: 'mah gender needs moar rights than urs, cous u had it gud, so now ur gonna rot'. Always gives me hope in humanity.

I don't care about women's rights or men's rights. I just came to this thread to make fun of Actiblizzion.

[Easo]

Ah I see - so we cannot show that this undead NPC is doing bad things because, you know, he literally is evil? No, let's tone that down, evil characters cannot be too evil! Just go with the good old mass murder, that one is fine...

The "greenskin" insult one is truly pathetic.

[Dacia Ultan]

you are correct on people calling you snowflake. I agree with that.

Of course you'd cherry-pick that out, and ignore how the context was the hypocrisy of you lot calling others that while you're melting down. You really like confession by accusation, don't you?

the rest of your word salad I don't even care anymore. bleh

In other words: it was beyond your comprehension (as we all could have guessed from your outburst as a whole and your bizarre invocation of Godwin's Law in particular), so you didn't read it and blamed me for the fact that you couldn't. You fit the pattern.

The only people making mountains out of mole hills are the game's devs and their shit contrived world view that will eventually kill off even more of the dwindling playerbase they already had.

For a bit of context: this is a user who called being disagreed with "dehumanizing" and compared it to the Holocaust...and accused others of fragility both before and after doing so. But sure; the devs are the ones making mountains out of molehills.

[Sialina]

FWIW, I agree with you to an extent there. Some of these changes are pretty batshit and probably too far in the PC camp. But at the same time, I understand the context and reasoning behind it so I'm not overly upset. And it may have some net-positives for future players. I certainly don't see this alienating anybody who wasn't already looking for reasons to be upset with Blizzard anyway.

I won't speculate on player losses, but I will extend my argument a bit further.

There are many things that would fall under the same umbrella, genocide has been mentioned previously, war, murder, but we can get down to a more personal level as well, things like religious iconography, the treatment of the soul, how different meat is handled, animal cruelty, why don't they deserve special attention to make the game more inclusive? Especially religious iconography has some really heinous treatment throughout the game, but also jokes like D.E.H.T.A's Little P.I.T.A. where you can't come close to the ingame NPCs representing PETA after killing an animal. The story goes blizzard was approached by PETA about the Nesingwary quests and this quest chain and achievement was their response.
I'm not advocating for the removal of these things, I'm asking that we keep in game events and real world politics separate.

What I find important, and this is just my world view, is that violence and hatred (that includes physical, sexual, spiritual) are not incited towards real world humans. A simple naming reference like Harrison Jones won't hurt anyone, but if we start kicking Tronald Dump or Boe Jiden down flights of stairs, hurting them and telling us it's a good idea, it's gone too far.

[Menog]

Of course you'd cherry-pick that out, and ignore how the context was the hypocrisy of you lot calling others that while you're melting down. You really like confession by accusation, don't you?

In other words: it was beyond your comprehension (as we all could have guessed from your outburst as a whole and your bizarre invocation of Godwin's Law in particular), so you didn't read it and blamed me for the fact that you couldn't. You fit the pattern.

For a bit of context: this is a user who called being disagreed with "dehumanizing" and compared it to the Holocaust...and accused others of fragility both before and after doing so. But sure; the devs are the ones making mountains out of molehills.

I litteraly dont give 2 fucks about the shit you type, so keep doing your show for the masses routine. /ignore

[Relapses]

I won't speculate on player losses, but I will extend my argument a bit further.

There are many things that would fall under the same umbrella, genocide has been mentioned previously, war, murder, but we can get down to a more personal level as well, things like religious iconography, the treatment of the soul, how different meat is handled, animal cruelty, why don't they deserve special attention to make the game more inclusive? Especially religious iconography has some really heinous treatment throughout the game, but also jokes like D.E.H.T.A's Little P.I.T.A. where you can't come close to the ingame NPCs representing PETA after killing an animal. The story goes blizzard was approached by PETA about the Nesingwary quests and this quest chain and achievement was their response.
I'm not advocating for the removal of these things, I'm asking that we keep in game events and real world politics separate.

What I find important, and this is just my world view, is that violence and hatred (that includes physical, sexual, spiritual) are not incited towards real world humans. A simple naming reference like Harrison Jones won't hurt anyone, but if we start kicking Tronald Dump or Boe Jiden down flights of stairs, hurting them and telling us it's a good idea, it's gone too far.

Since we're discussing this on a personal level, frankly I simply don't see these changes as politically driven (nor do I see them as opening the floodgates to allow more politics into the game). The "agenda" being implied by people most upset by these changes seems, to me, to just be a cover-up for actual bigotry. (I'm not saying that's the case for you, just the distinct impression I get reading some posts... especially the ones who use woke as a pejorative.) I do understand the sentiment you're getting at but this really goes back to developers being free to develop the game as they see fit. There are always going to be things I think the playerbase will disagree with developers on for any number of reasons. But to say that they're doing this to appease certain demographics or check off boxes on their post-lawsuit corporate sanitization plan, to me, just seems overly cynical when we have firsthand accounts from developers themselves saying the contrary.

[vilememory]

I'm still waiting on them to remove slut mogs, we really don't need that kind of sexual exploitation and slash or shaming in the game.

[Relapses]

I'm still waiting on them to remove slut mogs, we really don't need that kind of sexual exploitation and slash or shaming in the game.

Blizzard's own response to this specifically mentions that they will not be removing slutmogs:

We also want players to be able to express themselves through their characters, so we don’t intend to change existing player looks or cosmetics. Instead, we want to ensure that we're offering a wide range of options for players to represent themselves.

[Dacia Ultan]

Blizzard's own response to this specifically mentions that they will not be removing slutmogs:

We also want players to be able to express themselves through their characters, so we don’t intend to change existing player looks or cosmetics. Instead, we want to ensure that we're offering a wide range of options for players to represent themselves.

I mean, if anything: I'd like to see more male "slutmog" options. Let my monk run around in a loincloth and straps, dammit.

Mind you: I have the loincloth and straps picked out that, if I pick up the game again, will hopefully be his final mog. It remains that there weren't many choices.

[Sialina]

Since we're discussing this on a personal level, frankly I simply don't see these changes as politically driven (nor do I see them as opening the floodgates to allow more politics into the game). The "agenda" being implied by people most upset by these changes seems, to me, to just be a cover-up for actual bigotry. (I'm not saying that's the case for you, just the distinct impression I get reading some posts... especially the ones who use woke as a pejorative.) I do understand the sentiment you're getting at but this really goes back to developers being free to develop the game as they see fit. There are always going to be things I think the playerbase will disagree with developers on for any number of reasons. But to say that they're doing this to appease certain demographics or check off boxes on their post-lawsuit corporate sanitization plan, to me, just seems overly cynical when we have firsthand accounts from developers themselves saying the contrary.

I think just for formality I might as well say it, but in any discussion, both sides will have bad faith actors and rude people.

Second point here is, I think a lot of people are angry with Blizzard, it has been brewing over the last couple of years and Blizzard keeps putting their foot foot in their mouth, don't you guys have phones, Diablo Immortal, cash shop pushing, lawsuits, staff firing and numerous other scandals. Many people are simply looking for a new hammer to bludgeon Blizzard with.

I also don't think we will slide into full puritanical territory, but it's always worth showing that you dislike the current direction the game is going in, as I said I don't really care about any of the things Blizzard changed this time around, but next time could be different.

What I will disagree with though, is where this is going, because there has been a trend where women are constantly getting more covered, we have several examples like Sylvanas, Jaina and others, before they got an undershirt, this time they got turned into fruit. I don't think women looking beautiful or sexy is a bad thing.

If you are curious to what extent I think the game warrants changing in the wake of this lawsuit, it would be having any named referencing perpetrators changed, after they were found guilty in the lawsuit though.

[DarkAmbient]

What? How? Like whats different about the two... it still means the same thing... can someone explain this to me lol.

Yeah, I honestly don't know what could possibly have been non-inclusive or offensive about that at all. Most of the changes are pointless, but that one particularly so.

[DingDongKing]

I legit cannot wait for the day Blizzard introduces non binary and trans options within the character creator. The tears are going to submerge Azeroth.