NCAAF 2021-2022 Season

[xuros]

P5's have a 70ish % win rate vs G5. just look it up.

[muto]

P5's have a 70ish % win rate vs G5. just look it up.

I linked it some pages back he couldn't be bothered to look. I also linked recruiting class ranks, but apparently those doesn't matter either even though every team that's won the National Championship in the Playoff era (and probably before) has had a top 10 recruiting class except Clemson (11th) in 2016.

[cubby]

I linked it some pages back he couldn't be bothered to look. I also linked recruiting class ranks, but apparently those doesn't matter either even though every team that's won the National Championship in the Playoff era (and probably before) has had a top 10 recruiting class except Clemson (11th) in 2016.

You still don't understand that your recruiting class point is another solid argument for having an expanded CFP.

[muto]

You still don't understand that your recruiting class point is another solid argument for having an expanded CFP.

No recruits would pick Cincinnati over Ohio State even if they invited G5’s to the playoff. Ohio State has much nicer facilities, and is a better university overall.

[xuros]

No recruits would pick Cincinnati over Ohio State even if they invited G5’s to the playoff. Ohio State has much nicer facilities, and is a better university overall.

Pretty much this. The amount of money that flows though a P5 program to keep their athletes happy is insane. Also not to mention a stadium that can house 105k screaming fans at "the shoe" vs the 40k capacity at Nippert Stadium. No contest when you try to lure top tier talent to your program. I hope cinci makes the CFP this season. Will be nice to shut down those "G5 needs equal-whatever" folks.

[cubby]

No recruits would pick Cincinnati over Ohio State even if they invited G5’s to the playoff. Ohio State has much nicer facilities, and is a better university overall.

But CFP exposure would increase the chances that a recruit would pick Cincy over a mediocre P5 team. There is literally no down side to G5 teams getting more national exposure. That's the whole point.

And you're even not entirely correct about the above. No first string recruit would pick OSU over Cincy, but a 3-star might, knowing they would start on a team (Cincy) whereas they might ride the bench at OSU. Again - the more national exposure the better.

So, by your own points and admissions, expanding the CFP would help everyone, AND give the G5 teams more of a chance at catching up.

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Pretty much this. The amount of money that flows though a P5 program to keep their athletes happy is insane. Also not to mention a stadium that can house 105k screaming fans at "the shoe" vs the 40k capacity at Nippert Stadium. No contest when you try to lure top tier talent to your program. I hope cinci makes the CFP this season. Will be nice to shut down those "G5 needs equal-whatever" folks.

Of course not. But you're just listing two teams without considering the bigger picture. A super shitty P5 school with mediocre facilities wouldn't be as attractive, possibly, than a very successful G5 team. More exposure on the national level can only help everyone.

There is almost literally no down side to expanding the CFP to 12 teams.

[xuros]

But CFP exposure would increase the chances that a recruit would pick Cincy over a mediocre P5 team. There is literally no down side to G5 teams getting more national exposure. That's the whole point.

And you're even not entirely correct about the above. No first string recruit would pick OSU over Cincy, but a 3-star might, knowing they would start on a team (Cincy) whereas they might ride the bench at OSU. Again - the more national exposure the better.

So, by your own points and admissions, expanding the CFP would help everyone, AND give the G5 teams more of a chance at catching up.

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Of course not. But you're just listing two teams without considering the bigger picture. A super shitty P5 school with mediocre facilities wouldn't be as attractive, possibly, than a very successful G5 team. More exposure on the national level can only help everyone.

There is almost literally no down side to expanding the CFP to 12 teams.

Super shitty P5 schools already feel the recruiting hurt. The best players still get absorbed into the bigger better P5s. At most times a "very successful G5" is just a mid to low end p5 school. There will be no changing that no matter how far they expand the playoffs.

I will agree that more exposure could help, but its not enough to turn a Poke n Dunk U to a Clemson or Ga when it comes to National recruiting.

[cubby]

Super shitty P5 schools already feel the recruiting hurt. The best players still get absorbed into the bigger better P5s. At most times a "very successful G5" is just a mid to low end p5 school. There will be no changing that no matter how far they expand the playoffs.

I will agree that more exposure could help, but its not enough to turn a Poke n Dunk U to a Clemson or Ga when it comes to National recruiting.

Not necessarily. And, some of the best recruits turn out bad and vice versa. So getting better mediocre recruits to G5 schools can only help. And there is still no downside to increasing the CFP - more exposure for those lower and medium level schools can only help.

And keep in mind that as of now, for this year, ranked G5 schools lead P5 schools in head to head match ups. I know, I know - just one game. But Cincy crushing Notre Dame was a big deal. Not some last minute field goal when ND's entire defensive line was out on injuries, but owning the entire game, start to finish. Cincy beat them, across the board. Not having a Cincy team in the CFP this year (assuming they win out) is a travesty. And keep in mind that my argument virtually guarantees that the Pac-12 won't see a CFP team (if they would have regardless).

[xuros]

Not necessarily. And, some of the best recruits turn out bad and vice versa. So getting better mediocre recruits to G5 schools can only help. And there is still no downside to increasing the CFP - more exposure for those lower and medium level schools can only help.

And keep in mind that as of now, for this year, ranked G5 schools lead P5 schools in head to head match ups. I know, I know - just one game. But Cincy crushing Notre Dame was a big deal. Not some last minute field goal when ND's entire defensive line was out on injuries, but owning the entire game, start to finish. Cincy beat them, across the board. Not having a Cincy team in the CFP this year (assuming they win out) is a travesty. And keep in mind that my argument virtually guarantees that the Pac-12 won't see a CFP team (if they would have regardless).

Some good points. Will just have to wait and see how the "landscape" changes when they expand the CFP. Will be interesting at least.

[plz delete account]

Of course not. But you're just listing two teams without considering the bigger picture. A super shitty P5 school with mediocre facilities wouldn't be as attractive, possibly, than a very successful G5 team. More exposure on the national level can only help everyone.

There is almost literally no down side to expanding the CFP to 12 teams.

So let's look at the last round of expansion, when two midmajors became P5: Utah, TCU.
Utah and TCU had great programs, and great facilities. If you compared Utah and TCU against P5s, for example, you'd find they were in the top half of P5s, maybe even top third. Utah, who had nothing but 2 and 3 star recruits, had just DOMINATED ALABAMA ( @muto @xuros ). TCU would win in the MWC in 2010 and 2011, and BCS bust. Both programs would be screwed out of natty appearances simply because of their tag as midmajors. Both programs would become P5s in only a few years. Recruiting has gone a lot better for both programs after, sure. But a decade ago, you would be arguing that Utah would NOT compete in the PAC. Oh look, Utah's currently in the hunt for it's 3rd outright south division title, and 3.5th overall after knocking off USC IN LOS ANGELES.

If your argument is "G5's can't compete because talent" I will gladly point you to Utah as proof that you are wrong and just don't know it yet.

[muto]

Utah wouldn’t have beat Alabama in 2008 had Alabama actually cared about that game. They had just lost to Florida and were denied playing for the National Championship. A lot of Alabama players gave two shits about that game against Utah, and Nick Saban said he even noticed it in his players performance. And Utah on the other hand wanted to prove themselves, not that it mattered, because they were playing an Alabama team that simply didn’t want to be there.

[cubby]

Utah wouldn’t have beat Alabama in 2008 had Alabama actually cared about that game. They had just lost to Florida and were denied playing for the National Championship. A lot of Alabama players gave two shits about that game against Utah, and Nick Saban said he even noticed it in his players performance. And Utah on the other hand wanted to prove themselves, not that it mattered, because they were playing an Alabama team that simply didn’t want to be there.

Do you hear yourself when you post this drivel? You're literally saying facts don't matter, that your *feels* hand wave away anything that disagrees with your position. We're literally using your data, that you provided, to show how you're wrong. And your answer is "nope, not in my world".

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P5's have a 70ish % win rate vs G5. just look it up.

And this is an interesting stat. Imagine how well they would do in recruiting, and therefore in games, with more national exposure. They are already winning 30ish% of their games without any help, at all.

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Some good points. Will just have to wait and see how the "landscape" changes when they expand the CFP. Will be interesting at least.

Agreed. I hope that CFP proposal goes through, and soon.

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(respectful snip)

Just to clarify, you're not directing this at me, right? We're basically agreeing here.

[plz delete account]

Just to clarify, you're not directing this at me, right? We're basically agreeing here.

Correct. Was backing you up.

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Utah wouldn’t have beat Alabama in 2008 had Alabama actually cared about that game.

So you're saying Florida would've talked shit, not cared about the game because Utah was a G5, and Utah would have a crystal right now?

Nice, thanks for the vote of confidence

[muto]

Correct. Was backing you up.

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So you're saying Florida would've talked shit, not cared about the game because Utah was a G5, and Utah would have a crystal right now?

Nice, thanks for the vote of confidence

Lol what. Florida was playing for a Natty, of course they wanted to be there, and won.

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Do you hear yourself when you post this drivel? You're literally saying facts don't matter, that your *feels* hand wave away anything that disagrees with your position. We're literally using your data, that you provided, to show how you're wrong. And your answer is "nope, not in my world".

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And this is an interesting stat. Imagine how well they would do in recruiting, and therefore in games, with more national exposure. They are already winning 30ish% of their games without any help, at all.

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Agreed. I hope that CFP proposal goes through, and soon.

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Just to clarify, you're not directing this at me, right? We're basically agreeing here.

Facts do matter. Fact is Alabama didn’t want to be there, they wanted to play for the Natty. Alabama would have crushed Utah if they were playing for the National Championship.

[Crissi]

ok, this is bordering on flamebait to say Alabama's loss doesnt matter cause they didnt wanna be there. Drop this argument.

[muto]

ok, this is bordering on flamebait to say Alabama's loss doesnt matter cause they didnt wanna be there. Drop this argument.

“There’s very little interest from our fans, our players or anybody else to play in the Sugar Bowl, which to me is a tremendous opportunity,” Saban said. “I tried to tell everyone, you’re only going to remember one thing about this game and that’s the outcome.

So there’s no interest, there’s no passion and everybody is embarrassed because of how we played.

Well, it’s because you didn’t have any passion for it, you didn’t have any interest in it, you didn’t have any enthusiasm to do it, and that’s across the board. And that’s not right. We go to a BCS bowl game, everybody ought to be positive and enthusiastic about what we’re doing.”

- Nick Saban

Source:

https://www.al.com/rapsheet/2009/04/...say_about.html



But go ahead and infract me cause I’m “flaming”.

[Crissi]

Disrespecting other fandoms because you want to be "right" is still not ok. SO again, drop it.

[plz delete account]

“There’s very little interest from our fans, our players or anybody else to play in the Sugar Bowl, which to me is a tremendous opportunity,” Saban said. “I tried to tell everyone, you’re only going to remember one thing about this game and that’s the outcome.

So there’s no interest, there’s no passion and everybody is embarrassed because of how we played.

Well, it’s because you didn’t have any passion for it, you didn’t have any interest in it, you didn’t have any enthusiasm to do it, and that’s across the board. And that’s not right. We go to a BCS bowl game, everybody ought to be positive and enthusiastic about what we’re doing.”

- Nick Saban

Source:

https://www.al.com/rapsheet/2009/04/...say_about.html



But go ahead and infract me cause I’m “flaming”.

If Alabama didn't want to be there, they shouldn't have talked so much shit prior to the game JS

[cuafpr]

i seriously don't understand how people can't see that expanding the CFP and giving the G5 a chance is bad for CFB. It won't balance overnight but give it several years, and you will see the 3 maybe a 4 star choose to start at a G5 vs riding the bench at a P5 let alone transfer portal. my hill that I'll die on is that the NCAA should restructure, drop the P5/G5 split re-align schools based on location into 2 major divisions, and then sub-divisions matching the NFC/AFC scheme proven to work in the NFL. you get a more level playing field, and losing one game even 2 doesn't automatically destroy your season. I despise how in CFB it's like well you lost a game your chances are down 50%, oh you lost 2 games.. screw you, you suck no CFP you. Lastly, drop the AP, Coaches polls as they are proven biased to favorite schools. #dieingonthishill

oh one last rock on my hill.. you take an NIL deal you lose your scholarship money... freeing that up for a player without a NIL or scholarship.

[cubby]

Lol what. Florida was playing for a Natty, of course they wanted to be there, and won.

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Facts do matter. Fact is Alabama didn’t want to be there, they wanted to play for the Natty. Alabama would have crushed Utah if they were playing for the National Championship.

And you STILL don't understand. You are once again making yet another argument for both why the CFP should be expanded, AND why a good G5 team would have a solid chance against a good P5 team. The argument you made above, and the ridiculous excuse Saban made, is literally sauce for the proverbial goose - "[the P5 team's] heart wouldn't be in [the game]", giving the G5 team even more of an advantage.

Thanks for proving me right.

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i seriously don't understand how people can't see that expanding the CFP and giving the G5 a chance is bad for CFB. It won't balance overnight but give it several years, and you will see the 3 maybe a 4 star choose to start at a G5 vs riding the bench at a P5 let alone transfer portal. my hill that I'll die on is that the NCAA should restructure, drop the P5/G5 split re-align schools based on location into 2 major divisions, and then sub-divisions matching the NFC/AFC scheme proven to work in the NFL. you get a more level playing field, and losing one game even 2 doesn't automatically destroy your season. I despise how in CFB it's like well you lost a game your chances are down 50%, oh you lost 2 games.. screw you, you suck no CFP you. Lastly, drop the AP, Coaches polls as they are proven biased to favorite schools. #dieingonthishill

oh one last rock on my hill.. you take an NIL deal you lose your scholarship money... freeing that up for a player without a NIL or scholarship.

You're probably entirely right - I have never heard of that argument/idea before. However, it will also never happen. You're asking an entire institution to give up their entire historical identity - conferences.

But it's a hell of an interesting idea.