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  1. #1101
    Quote Originally Posted by Video Games View Post
    You did not leave me with that option because, well, it never crossed my mind after, you know, the company hired a union busting firm. I also don't believe a union is the be all end all solution so sexual harassment anyway.
    the company did... not the worker's suing them.

    and what would your solution to the problem be then? because clearly the status quo before these lawsuits wasn't ideal either.

  2. #1102
    Quote Originally Posted by Sialina View Post
    Got it, so first part, rules for thee not for me, doesn't matter where words come from, it matters what they mean now, she used an insult, you used one, you accused her of using one while in the same post using one.

    Second part, you are not making an argument, instead of typing out an essay about what they removed, content that can in some way shape or form be considered mildly sexual, they simply use offensive as an umbrella term.

    Third part I was replying to your statement, but while we are at it, it doesn't matter that noone asked me, because I made a congruent argument, you did not. If you want to establish where a reasonable line might be, through discussion, you might want to give me the core of your argument as to why it's good to remove the specific things removed, then compare that to my stance, for that to happen, you need to know my stance, and give yours.
    I'd say don't bother with these people. Taking a page off their book, the "defense brigade" outs itself at moments like this, coming to the defense of their precious defenseless friend/damsel Blizzard when they feel it's criticized, by their own metric, far more than necessary. Then throw (yeah exactly) buzzwords that other people are "outraged" and that if they cared about the game for these emotes they might be better off not playing at all (a laughable strawman, but go ahead or whatever). While in reality I'm more mildly annoyed and find it amusing that the whole company is now run by these morality preachers while their game is sinking lower and lower at an alarming pace. But yeah, anyone who comments here and makes their annoyance known is "outraged" or whatever, we're foaming at the mouth madly mashing our keyboards. Lol.

    I find it more hilarous that these people are "QQ'ing" about those "QQ'ing", to use a fitting term. So what, disappointed that this forum isn't one of your positivity echo chambers? You can go to Taliesin or some niche WoW forum made for that (oooh there's also /r wowcirclejerk, I forgot) and gorge on positivity all to your heart's content. People who have played this game for the better part of their existence have a right to speak out on topics and the direction Blizzard is taking to their heart's content. You want to censor that just like your favourite company is now censoring their game because a few devs have gotten the grasp of the reins thanks to the car crash that Activision Blizzard has become at the moment? You can try that I suppose, but get a mirror first lol. I and many others have been involved with Warcraft for two decades, you think I have a less right to speak out on this topic than the handful of devs who have been there for what, 3 or 4 years most likely? Fat chance of that happening.

    And if your stance is "they're devs they can do whatever lol" yeah, let's not speak out on issues in our government just because the current one is not the one we voted for . I'm not obligated to support the devs making these absurd changes just because their company has gone to shit. They don't get handed a "you're automatically right in doing whatever you want now" ticket because the company fucked up. Sorry.

    To summarize, their whole changes are subjective and pandering to the political correctness "brigade" no matter if they themselves pushed for it or not. Because that's why these people do things, to get pats on the back by their shared opinion circle and believe "they're changing the world for the better" because they cannot be known for making a quality game anymore now that there's no real talent left at the company. Contrast that to people singing praises of other MMOs at the moment (like *cough* FFXIV *cough*) and their goal is, basically, to be known as "friends to the humanity and arbiters of morality" by changing things in the game some people *might* find offensive. What an amazing accomplishment, *standing ovation* .

  3. #1103
    Quote Originally Posted by Dacia Ultan View Post
    I get what's going on here: you're unfamiliar with the concept of context. I was using "reactionaries" to refer to people participating in a backlash against societal changes; you were using "feminists" to mean some caricature of stupidity, fragility, and spite as which you view the devs who were ostensibly responsible for the changes. (Not to mention using "woke" as some caricature of fragility and insolence, and "hypocrite" to mean "I know you are, but what am I?")

    Sorry-not-sorry, but: if you can't understand the difference between using a word to describe the relevant concept (as I did), and just flinging it indiscriminately at everyone who disagrees with you (as you've been doing)? That's on you.

    And the same goes for you. I didn't use any "insults" at all.

    Wow; how did you manage to pack so much wrong into one sentence?

    Other way around. Even if the stances which you erroneously attributed to me had been accurate: your post added up to "you suck at arguing; you were clearly offended by the lines and think you're the arbiter of what is or isn't acceptable; this is what they should have done because I say so." That isn't an argument; it's two accusations and an opinion.

    That's the thing: I'm not arguing that it was "good" to remove those lines in the first place. For at least the second time—and I don't know if it's incomprehension or dishonesty on your part, but both inclined to suspect one or the other and disinclined to care which—but you are attributing stances to me that I never took in the first place. My argument is that the mass freak-out over the removed lines is a gross overreaction...and that your description of the discussion as "2 males attacking 2 females, because we are not feminist enough" was an erroneous one on multiple levels.
    You appear to be unable to comprehend what I'm writing, so I don't think arguing further with you would go anywhere, I was right to ignore your verbal flatulence and I shall continue to do so from here on out.

    I also did not attribute anything to you, I'm simply pointing out your cognitive dissonance, if you are prepared to stoop to ad hominem I don't see any reason for me to keep discourse civil.

  4. #1104
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    Quote Originally Posted by uuuhname View Post
    the company did... not the worker's suing them.

    and what would your solution to the problem be then? because clearly the status quo before these lawsuits wasn't ideal either.
    You get your boss or whoever fired without taking shit from anybody, go public if you must. It's not a difficult solution. You don't need to like, censor 15 year old text in a video game after the fact lol.

  5. #1105
    The Unstoppable Force DeltrusDisc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RadasNoir View Post
    Aren't all flirt lines just sexual innuendos?

    Shouldn't Blizzard just remove the /flirt emote altogether to save time?
    No one should ever flirt. It's clearly a horrible offense to all!
    "A flower.
    Yes. Upon your return, I will gift you a beautiful flower."

    "Remember. Remember... that we once lived..."

    Quote Originally Posted by mmocd061d7bab8 View Post
    yeh but lava is just very hot water

  6. #1106
    Pandaren Monk Redroniksre's Avatar
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    I won't jump into some of the arguments going on here, but i do see some people implying some pretty bad things. If the changes are insignificant to you and you don't care, i am glad, you can continue to enjoy the game without worry. But the changes do indicate something for other people that is worrying. Trying to imply that "If you don't like these changes then you are against the victims of sexual harassment" and that is speaks to their views overall is pretty messed up and the people implying that need to really check themselves. My personal view, if it is related to the harassment (specific cases) then they should 100% remove them. But i don't feel they should have free reign to just change whatever they want when it isn't even related to this.

  7. #1107
    Quote Originally Posted by DeltrusDisc View Post
    No one should ever flirt. It's clearly a horrible offense to all!
    See heres the problem too, its their quick fixes so they dont actually have to make the efforts. People harass each other with emotes. Instead of having a system and working to actually remove people harassing, its easier to REMOVE features that can be used to harass people. Blizzard always go that route, its low effort, cost no money. Kinda the reason they had no chat in heroes of the storm. You have to actually put effort to monitor your community to make a good community. But that takes effort, instead the better less expensive idea is to remove community options. Blizzard is the community version of putting foam on every corner possible, so that they dont need to teach their community to not be shit the hard way. If you remove everything that people can use to be shit, eventually they cant be shit!
    Last edited by minteK917; 2021-10-14 at 01:22 AM.

  8. #1108
    Quote Originally Posted by Video Games View Post
    You get your boss or whoever fired without taking shit from anybody, go public if you must. It's not a difficult solution. You don't need to like, censor 15 year old text in a video game after the fact lol.
    last I checked Liotta express passenger Bobby Kotick is still CEO. so still need to get that sorted out.

    which they did, they have been public about this, okay next.

    no, you don't need to, but they want to, which is fine, it's their game. the world will keep spinning on well after one potty joke is wiped off a restroom stall.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by minteK917 View Post
    See heres the problem too, its their quick fixes so they dont actually have to make the efforts. People harass each other with emotes. Instead of having a system and working to actually remove people harassing, its easier to REMOVE features that can be used to harass people. Blizzard always go that route, its low effort, cost no money. Kinda the reason they had no chat in heroes of the storm. You have to actually put effort to monitor your community to make a good community. But that takes effort, instead the better less expensive idea is to remove community options.
    indeed, it would be nice to stop handing out bonuses and firing hundreds of employee's and instead have those people work on community oversight.

  9. #1109
    Quote Originally Posted by Redroniksre View Post
    I won't jump into some of the arguments going on here, but i do see some people implying some pretty bad things. If the changes are insignificant to you and you don't care, i am glad, you can continue to enjoy the game without worry. But the changes do indicate something for other people that is worrying. Trying to imply that "If you don't like these changes then you are against the victims of sexual harassment" and that is speaks to their views overall is pretty messed up and the people implying that need to really check themselves. My personal view, if it is related to the harassment (specific cases) then they should 100% remove them. But i don't feel they should have free reign to just change whatever they want when it isn't even related to this.
    Sadly, that is the morality preachers' signature move. If you don't 100% agree with them you're their enemy and must be crucified. Pretty middle age morality if you ask me, but I think they're too blind to see the irony.

  10. #1110
    Quote Originally Posted by Redroniksre View Post
    I won't jump into some of the arguments going on here, but i do see some people implying some pretty bad things. If the changes are insignificant to you and you don't care, i am glad, you can continue to enjoy the game without worry. But the changes do indicate something for other people that is worrying. Trying to imply that "If you don't like these changes then you are against the victims of sexual harassment" and that is speaks to their views overall is pretty messed up and the people implying that need to really check themselves. My personal view, if it is related to the harassment (specific cases) then they should 100% remove them. But i don't feel they should have free reign to just change whatever they want when it isn't even related to this.
    Got a good reason for feeling bad about this that doesn't conveniently align your already negative opinion of Blizzard? Right, of course you don't. Because there isn't one.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Nraktja View Post
    Sadly, that is the morality preachers' signature move. If you don't 100% agree with them you're their enemy and must be crucified. Pretty middle age morality if you ask me, but I think they're too blind to see the irony.
    "Morality preachers" who have the audacity to tell people who have absolutely no fucking business getting this upset about meaningless changes to the game to kick rocks. This has nothing to do with morality preaching and everything to do with people needlessly circlejerking negativity over something completely pointless.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Swagbag View Post
    That's how things work these days. Have you seen Twitter? If you don't do X then you're clearly a nazi, or a fascist, or a racist, or transphobic, etc etc. People now can apparently only handle when something is either A or B. No other options exist. You didn't logout of the game to protest Blizz? Clearly you hate ALL women and think rape and murder are perfectly fine.
    That's not what's happening here but it's nice to know you care so little about what's actually being discussed that you're eager to completely mischaracterize dissenting voices in the most cynical manner possible.

  11. #1111
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    Quote Originally Posted by uuuhname View Post
    last I checked Liotta express passenger Bobby Kotick is still CEO. so still need to get that sorted out.
    Very true, so in that case have the backbone to walk away from a company that treats you poorly. You can't always get your way so stick with your principles. I know you're gonna say wellll if they were just in a union then then he'd get fired duhhh it's simple, but life just isn't that simple sometimes

  12. #1112
    Pandaren Monk Redroniksre's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Relapses View Post
    Got a good reason for feeling bad about this that doesn't conveniently align your already negative opinion of Blizzard? Right, of course you don't. Because there isn't one.
    My reason for feeling bad about this? Because while these are all minor changes at most, it also represents a change in direction for the game. I don't think they will go back and mass change content, but i am concerned that future content will be, in a way, neutered. And then there is the talking point of "Sex bad but violence and genocide good?" that has already been argued plenty so i am not going to start that up again.

  13. #1113
    Quote Originally Posted by Video Games View Post
    Ah, so the way I was using feminists to describe feminist's propensity to censor things they do not like which in this instance is frat humor and women in dresses with a modicum of cleavage showing. I wasn't using a buzzword at all then. Thanks for the clarification.
    Ah, so your characteristic "gotcha" takes the form of attempting to rationalize your indiscriminate epithet-slinging by deliberately misrepresenting the scenario. No one is saying "buzzword" except you, but you remain seemingly convinced that you'll eventually score a hit on that caricature if you just keep flailing. Clarification is lost on you, because it would require you to admit error; and you're clearly incapable.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sialina View Post
    You appear to be unable to comprehend what I'm writing, so I don't think arguing further with you would go anywhere, I was right to ignore your verbal flatulence and I shall continue to do so from here on out.
    You accusing me of incomprehension, in light of what you've contributed (such as it is) to this discussion, is hilarious; all you've done is sneer past me at some straw-snowflake.

    And while I've certainly got a few answers to your little fart metaphor: I'll keep them to myself, because this forum has rules and I have lines I won't cross.

    I also did not attribute anything to you, I'm simply pointing out your cognitive dissonance, if you are prepared to stoop to ad hominem I don't see any reason for me to keep discourse civil.
    That's not true and you know it. You did attribute positions to me that I never took, which was the basis of your "cognitive dissonance" accusation in the first place (along with one of "doublethink" in your second reply). And, to be honest: you'd abandoned civility by that point.
    Quote Originally Posted by Sialina View Post
    To be honest, the way you come off I've been specifically ignoring reading your posts, double think like calling out Video games for using woke, while you yourself use outrage brigade for instance is why I have disregarded your arguments as subpar and not worth wasting time reading.
    Enough said. And to think that I hadn't even...say, compared your posts to farts, or grossly misrepresented either the discussion or your position.

  14. #1114
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dacia Ultan View Post
    Ah, so your characteristic "gotcha" takes the form of attempting to rationalize your indiscriminate epithet-slinging by deliberately misrepresenting the scenario. No one is saying "buzzword" except you, but you remain seemingly convinced that you'll eventually score a hit on that caricature if you just keep flailing. Clarification is lost on you, because it would require you to admit error; and you're clearly incapable.
    Pot, kettle etc etc.

  15. #1115
    Quote Originally Posted by uuuhname View Post
    indeed, it would be nice to stop handing out bonuses and firing hundreds of employee's and instead have those people work on community oversight.
    Yeah, thats why in ff14, theres hundreds emotes, dancing and all other random shit, people can use emotes as sexual a content as they want. They dont need to delete it, they ban people that harass you using them.
    Last edited by minteK917; 2021-10-14 at 01:45 AM.

  16. #1116
    Quote Originally Posted by Video Games View Post
    Pot, kettle etc etc.
    We've been over how "I know you are, but what am I?" isn't an argument many a time. And yet: you keep falling back on it.

  17. #1117
    Quote Originally Posted by Relapses View Post

    "Morality preachers" who have the audacity to tell people who have absolutely no fucking business getting this upset about meaningless changes to the game to kick rocks. This has nothing to do with morality preaching and everything to do with people needlessly circlejerking negativity over something completely pointless.

    Who are you to tell me I have no business getting "upset"? This is a discussion forum, I disagree with the decisions of those inhabiting dev spots in the game, and I will voice my opinion. And I will continue to find it funny to see people getting upset at people getting upset. And I don't see this as a meaningless change, I see it as part of a trend in Blizzard continously making absurd decisions. And their morality preaching is either from at best an ignorant, at worst a hypocritical point of view, if as their post states this is to make the game "represent their values", because having Undead in their game contuinuing to do morally reprehensible shit, having a race genocided then making the perpetrator a protagonist of an expansion stinks of heavy hypocrisy. They're doing this please those like-minded to them to garner brownie points. Good job to them.

  18. #1118
    Quote Originally Posted by Redroniksre View Post
    My reason for feeling bad about this? Because while these are all minor changes at most, it also represents a change in direction for the game. I don't think they will go back and mass change content, but i am concerned that future content will be, in a way, neutered. And then there is the talking point of "Sex bad but violence and genocide good?" that has already been argued plenty so i am not going to start that up again.
    We will collectively mourn for Blizzard's controversial decision remove the comedy genius that was Master Baiter the fishing supplies NPC. The Marxist left has taken over at Blizzard and long gone are the days when you could openly mock marginalized groups for simply existing. Update your Twitter profile's pronouns before daddy Blizzard bans you for not being progressive enough!

    Am I doing this right?

  19. #1119
    Quote Originally Posted by Nraktja View Post
    Who are you to tell me I have no business getting "upset"? This is a discussion forum, I disagree with the decisions of those inhabiting dev spots in the game, and I will voice my opinion. And I will continue to find it funny to see people getting upset at people getting upset. And I don't see this as a meaningless change, I see it as part of a trend in Blizzard continously making absurd decisions. And their morality preaching is either from at best an ignorant, at worst a hypocritical point of view, if as their post states this is to make the game "represent their values", because having Undead in their game contuinuing to do morally reprehensible shit, having a race genocided then making the perpetrator a protagonist of an expansion stinks of heavy hypocrisy. They're doing this please those like-minded to them to garner brownie points. Good job to them.
    Actually, they're doing this because they were victims of fucking sexual abuse and many changes are being made to clean up the mess left by the people mentioned in the lawsuit. But you're too busy pretending you know better than the actual fucking people making the changes to address this so I guess we should just let you continue living in your negativity echo chamber where anybody who dares question the articulation of your thinly veiled bigotry as "morality preaching." Whatever helps you sleep.
    Last edited by Relapses; 2021-10-14 at 01:48 AM.

  20. #1120
    Pandaren Monk Redroniksre's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Relapses View Post
    We will collectively mourn for Blizzard's controversial decision remove the comedy genius that was Master Baiter the fishing supplies NPC. The Marxist left has taken over at Blizzard and long gone are the days when you could openly mock marginalized groups for simply existing. Update your Twitter profile's pronouns before daddy Blizzard bans you for not being progressive enough!

    Am I doing this right?
    If you want to go off like that you are better off quoting some of the other people. I am not trying to claim anything like that, my stance is only that changing things this small that have no relation to the harassment that was occurring has some concerning implications for future expansions/changes to me.

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