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  1. #341
    Stop the flame war or get a room. The thread has not been about SpaceX for pages.

  2. #342
    Yea lol.
    I will say, which I'm sure you guys know that sometimes genius comes in many forms.
    From Cellini and Dali to Tesla specifically and ironically, they sometimes need a guiding hand like Musk's genius.
    He was a mess at times and if you know anything about his life, had he had a Musk, it would have gone far differently.
    Specifics aside, he's damn good at what he does;
    Bringing to life ideas and pushing them forward with great teams.

    Anywho, Bezos didn't kill Kirk so I'm happy.
    And SpaceX still kicks ass.
    Let's all revel in the fact we aren't paying per seat anymore.

  3. #343
    Quote Originally Posted by Flarelaine View Post
    Stop the flame war or get a room. The thread has not been about SpaceX for pages.
    I mean, I would say talking about the guy who heads the company is probably related to the company.

  4. #344
    Over 9000! Milchshake's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hollycakes View Post
    Yea lol.
    I will say, which I'm sure you guys know that sometimes genius comes in many forms.
    From Cellini and Dali to Tesla specifically and ironically, they sometimes need a guiding hand like Musk's genius.
    He was a mess at times and if you know anything about his life, had he had a Musk, it would have gone far differently.
    Specifics aside, he's damn good at what he does;
    Bringing to life ideas and pushing them forward with great teams.

    Anywho, Bezos didn't kill Kirk so I'm happy.
    And SpaceX still kicks ass.
    Let's all revel in the fact we aren't paying per seat anymore.
    No, Tesla and Edison make a better case for the opposite. How egomaniacs with boatloads of money hold "geniuses" back.

    Kinda how Steve Jobs held back gaming on Macs.

    Elon Musks fuckbois are just the latest iteration of Apple fanboys.

    Every generation gets their Monorail Man.

  5. #345
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    Quote Originally Posted by KuerbisgeschmackShake View Post
    How egomaniacs with boatloads of money hold "geniuses" back.
    Elon Musks fuckbois are just the latest iteration of Apple fanboys.
    Boy they sure are, right? Always showing up when the haters start flaming away, presenting facts and analysis - jesus, how the fuck can we still let them post here even. /s

    You baggers crack me up every time. You literally go out of your way to post ignorance and hate, ignoring facts and reality. You're as bad as Trump supporters.

    Remind us which genius Musk held back as SpaceX?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hollycakes View Post
    Yea lol.
    I will say, which I'm sure you guys know that sometimes genius comes in many forms.
    From Cellini and Dali to Tesla specifically and ironically, they sometimes need a guiding hand like Musk's genius.
    He was a mess at times and if you know anything about his life, had he had a Musk, it would have gone far differently.
    Specifics aside, he's damn good at what he does;
    Bringing to life ideas and pushing them forward with great teams.

    Anywho, Bezos didn't kill Kirk so I'm happy.
    And SpaceX still kicks ass.
    Let's all revel in the fact we aren't paying per seat anymore.
    I would give good money to see the agreements that were in place to send a 90 year old man into space. But yeah, glad he didn't die; kinda wish he'd already shut up about it. 10 minutes in space...wooo. More than most/all of us will ever get, of course.

    Good move on Bezos' part though - great free advertisement, kinda poignant to boot. Of all the celebrities to go up, Shatner is obviously the best choice.

  6. #346
    We need a Tesla thread lol cause I've never heard of him doing this either.
    Edison fuckery yes, Tesla no.
    Sure he had lots of money at one point but could certainly have used an organized person like Musk in his life.
    A lot of that money was funneled into research for wireless electricity before he died penniless.
    If anything his genius got in the way of things.
    Comparing Jobs of all people to Tesla is crazy.
    I'm not saying Musk is a Tesla either but if anything he might be more akin to a Westinghouse.
    Jobs is like Warhol.
    Dressing something unoriginal in popular clothing the masses eat up.

    Edit: Also this. Too bad Sulu had to bitch about it lol
    Quote Originally Posted by cubby View Post
    great free advertisement, kinda poignant to boot. Of all the celebrities to go up, Shatner is obviously the best choice.
    Last edited by Hollycakes; 2021-10-15 at 01:53 AM.

  7. #347
    I'm talking about Tesla himself.
    People were comparing genius lol.

    Edit: Ah I see if you only compare business's what you mean how they could be similar.
    Tesla to Apple.

  8. #348
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hollycakes View Post
    I'm talking about Tesla himself.
    People were comparing genius lol.

    Edit: Ah I see if you only compare business's what you mean how they could be similar.
    Tesla to Apple.
    Musk is a genius, in a number of fields, but he's not a Tesla (the man) genius by any means. That guy was a cut above the rest of the geniuses. Musk is just good at learning new things quickly, and becoming an expert in that field, and then being able to drive other experts to new areas of development.

    Tesla did SO much more by comparison.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Vegas82 View Post
    Tesla’s main source of profit is off carbon credits. Their “technology” isn’t anything unique or revolutionary. Elon himself doesn’t recommend people buy, for example, the Model X.
    That's funny that he does that. I personally enjoy the fuckery he brings to the other car manufacturers when they try and cut him out of markets.

    What did someone say awhile back about the two companies, Tesla and SpaceX: one is his hobby and the other is his passion. It seems like SpaceX is going to be where he goes from now on, with the rest of his endeavors just around to spice things up.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hollycakes View Post
    We need a Tesla thread lol cause I've never heard of him doing this either.
    Edison fuckery yes, Tesla no.
    Sure he had lots of money at one point but could certainly have used an organized person like Musk in his life.
    A lot of that money was funneled into research for wireless electricity before he died penniless.
    If anything his genius got in the way of things.
    Comparing Jobs of all people to Tesla is crazy.
    I'm not saying Musk is a Tesla either but if anything he might be more akin to a Westinghouse.
    Jobs is like Warhol.
    Dressing something unoriginal in popular clothing the masses eat up.

    Edit: Also this. Too bad Sulu had to bitch about it lol
    If Musk actually gets us to Mars, it will be interesting to see where history places him. I'm sure there will always be the baggers and haters, because that's apparently how us humans are wired. But I wonder if the sane history books will label him a Tesla-genius (which, imo, he's not - even if he gets us to Mars) or more of a modern innovator. I think your Westinghouse comparison might work well. Interesting to think about who to compare him to.

  9. #349
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    Quote Originally Posted by cubby View Post
    If Musk actually gets us to Mars, it will be interesting to see where history places him. I'm sure there will always be the baggers and haters, because that's apparently how us humans are wired.
    You know you can always just accept that there are entirely legitimate reasons to despise Musk and people of his ilk without trying to pathologize criticism of him, right?

    "Musk" is not going to get anyone to Mars. The people working at SpaceX will do so because bankrolling someone does not make it yours.
    Quote Originally Posted by Marjane Satrapi
    The world is not divided between East and West. You are American, I am Iranian, we don't know each other, but we talk and understand each other perfectly. The difference between you and your government is much bigger than the difference between you and me. And the difference between me and my government is much bigger than the difference between me and you. And our governments are very much the same.

  10. #350
    But SpaceX = Musk + the people working there.
    His influence in the space program now is undeniable.
    Ditto on SpaceX getting where it is.
    Without him there was no SpaceX.
    So yea I'd dare say,
    No Musk=No SpaceX=No Mars sans Nasa having another viable route and until then he most certainly is a variable in the equation.
    I'm not getting into the fanboy claims/argument here lol.
    Simplifying everything he's done down to bankrolling though is an exaggeration.

  11. #351
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elegiac View Post
    You know you can always just accept that there are entirely legitimate reasons to despise Musk and people of his ilk without trying to pathologize criticism of him, right?

    "Musk" is not going to get anyone to Mars. The people working at SpaceX will do so because bankrolling someone does not make it yours.
    And you're just like the rest of the zealot baggers. We can go another round if you want, but it's getting tedius. All you people have is personal hatred for the man, which you somehow think eclipses his industrial achievements.

    And your bankrolling comment is especially ignorant - you don't seem to understand how companies work.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Hollycakes View Post
    But SpaceX = Musk + the people working there.
    His influence in the space program now is undeniable.
    Ditto on SpaceX getting where it is.
    Without him there was no SpaceX.
    So yea I'd dare say,
    No Musk=No SpaceX=No Mars sans Nasa having another viable route and until then he most certainly is a variable in the equation.
    I'm not getting into the fanboy claims/argument here lol.
    Simplifying everything he's done down to bankrolling though is an exaggeration.
    Exactly. And well put.

    The people who make those ridiculous "bankrolling" claims don't know how companies are founded and then grown, and don't know the details of Musk's contribution. If SpaceX gets to Mars, it will be precisely because of Musk.

    Also keep in mind, @Elegiac is particularly untrustable in this genre because he also believes that no one should amass billions in wealth, and discounts anyone who does as nothing. So, he's twice removed from any truly relevant contributions to the discussion.

    For all you Musk baggers - remember, hating the man doesn't remove him from his contributions. Try to keep your subjective feelings away from his objective achievements. Musk is probably an asshole, certainly has many social issues, but gets full credit for ALL of SpaceX's achievements. It's sad and pathetic you can't be objective about these things.

  12. #352
    Void Lord Elegiac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cubby View Post
    And you're just like the rest of the zealot baggers. We can go another round if you want, but it's getting tedius. All you people have is personal hatred for the man, which you somehow think eclipses his industrial achievements.
    Again; what achievements?

    Throwing money at the wall and hoping it sticks isn't an achievement; the achievement belongs to the people at Tesla and SpaceX who are actually doing work, should their success materialize. Moreover, I'm highly critical of any worldview that hinges upon Great Man-esque history, which this is absolutely a case of when it comes to Musk.

    Also keep in mind, @Elegiac is particularly untrustable in this genre because he also believes that no one should amass billions in wealth
    This is a highly dishonest take.

    My issue isn't with the amassing of billions. The issue is with the amassing of billions while many if not most people in society are struggling to make ends meet. What y'all seem to forget is that this shit happens within a socioeconomic context.
    Last edited by Elegiac; 2021-10-15 at 04:44 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Marjane Satrapi
    The world is not divided between East and West. You are American, I am Iranian, we don't know each other, but we talk and understand each other perfectly. The difference between you and your government is much bigger than the difference between you and me. And the difference between me and my government is much bigger than the difference between me and you. And our governments are very much the same.

  13. #353
    Quote Originally Posted by Elegiac View Post
    Again; what achievements?

    Throwing money at the wall and hoping it sticks isn't an achievement; the achievement belongs to the people at Tesla and SpaceX who are actually doing work, should their success materialize. Moreover, I'm highly critical of any worldview that hinges upon Great Man-esque history, which this is absolutely a case of when it comes to Musk.



    This is a highly dishonest take.

    My issue isn't with the amassing of billions. The issue is with the amassing of billions while many if not most people in society are struggling to make ends meet. What y'all seem to forget is that this shit happens within a socioeconomic context.
    Cubby probably supports irl squid games. Just look at the engineering marvel of the island!

  14. #354
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    Kennedy didn't put people on the moon, NASA did.

  15. #355
    I can't help but think of Ford.
    His influence on the auto industry is similar to what we're talking about.
    He didn't invent the combustion engine but his genius with streamlining production lines etc. had the impact we all know about.

    You can't deny X.com having a hand in what would become Paypal, nor deny his influence in Zip2 and it's eventual sale to Compaq;
    receiving something like 100 mil and 20 mil respectively for his shares.
    Ignoring Falcon 1 and its achievements too somehow and his influence in that, you've forgotten about Starlink and what it's doing.
    It's weird to claim he has none.
    He is where is he and we aren't afterall.

    A president is different as he wasn't the ceo and chief engineer of Nasa.
    Musk is for this "nasa".
    His influence as we all know is direct, overbearing, he sleeps at work, rages, etc I'm sure we've all heard stories.
    My point is Kennedy didn't lol.

    Musk does dumb shit.
    Musk says dumb shit.
    Musk does smart shit.
    Musk says smart shit.
    They aren't mutually exclusive lol

  16. #356
    IMHO, I find Musk to be a rather fascinating analogue to Heinlein's Delos D. Harriman aka The Man Who Sold the Moon. A more real world yet distant example would be Columbus, where one's obsession leads to a drastic change of the World, irrespective of ones virtues and talents, beside the ability to successfully "sell" his project.
    "It is every citizen's final duty to go into the tanks, and become one with all the people."

    ~ Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang, "Ethics for Tomorrow"

  17. #357
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elegiac View Post
    You know you can always just accept that there are entirely legitimate reasons to despise Musk and people of his ilk without trying to pathologize criticism of him, right?

    "Musk" is not going to get anyone to Mars. The people working at SpaceX will do so because bankrolling someone does not make it yours.
    Yeah, but thanks to his company we can get the choice to be in Indentured servitude on his corporate empire on mars!

  18. #358
    Quote Originally Posted by Hollycakes View Post
    His influence as we all know is direct, overbearing, he sleeps at work, rages, etc
    You can describe young bill gates with exactly these words as well.
    The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, but wiser people so full of doubts.

  19. #359
    Quote Originally Posted by Hansworst View Post
    Kennedy didn't put people on the moon, NASA did.
    I am sure orders from the top meant nothing
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadoowpunk View Post
    Take that haters.
    IF IM STUPID, so is Donald Trump.

  20. #360
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elegiac View Post
    Again; what achievements?

    Throwing money at the wall and hoping it sticks isn't an achievement; the achievement belongs to the people at Tesla and SpaceX who are actually doing work, should their success materialize. Moreover, I'm highly critical of any worldview that hinges upon Great Man-esque history, which this is absolutely a case of when it comes to Musk.
    Just read back the last few pages, you can see/read them. I'm not going to have the same pointless conversation with close minded zealots. You and your ilk come out here every so often to bag on stuff you clearly don't understand, and don't want to learn about. I mean, asking what contributions Musk made to SpaceX is just such a disingenuous, laughably dishonest statement to make, everything else someone says after that is just ignorable.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Themius View Post
    Cubby probably supports irl squid games. Just look at the engineering marvel of the island!
    You three should get a room. It's fucking laughable how willfully ignorant you three are on how companies work, and what part the founder of a company takes it shaping it's direction and achievements. Also, remember, you ignorantly contradicted yourself awhile back, and still haven't figured it out. Give us a shout when you're caught up.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Hollycakes View Post
    I can't help but think of Ford.
    His influence on the auto industry is similar to what we're talking about.
    He didn't invent the combustion engine but his genius with streamlining production lines etc. had the impact we all know about.

    You can't deny X.com having a hand in what would become Paypal, nor deny his influence in Zip2 and it's eventual sale to Compaq;
    receiving something like 100 mil and 20 mil respectively for his shares.
    Ignoring Falcon 1 and its achievements too somehow and his influence in that, you've forgotten about Starlink and what it's doing.
    It's weird to claim he has none.
    He is where is he and we aren't afterall.

    A president is different as he wasn't the ceo and chief engineer of Nasa.
    Musk is for this "nasa".
    His influence as we all know is direct, overbearing, he sleeps at work, rages, etc I'm sure we've all heard stories.
    My point is Kennedy didn't lol.

    Musk does dumb shit.
    Musk says dumb shit.
    Musk does smart shit.
    Musk says smart shit.
    They aren't mutually exclusive lol
    Well put, thank you.

    I think at this point the kids under the bridge can just be ignored. They are making the same willfully ignorant statements over and over again. Baggers are always just gonna be baggers.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Back onto thread topic:

    I'm pretty psyched about SpaceX just tossing rocket after rocket into the sky this year. Little sad that Starship is delayed, but not surprised. Seems like someone awhile back pointed out (and corrected me) that delays are happening across the board with developments in space launces.

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