To all the Bellulars, Asmogolds, Preaches, QoL'ers and Fans that want to Design WOW.

[Yarathir]

White knights getting defensive as all !@#$ and circling the wagons tells you everything you need to know about the state of the game. Especially when some long time Blizzard defenders, even in these very boards, have already jumped ship.

Ah, the good ol' days when I was called an irrational WoW fanboy.

Oh how the turntables.

[The One Percent]

When I see threads like this, it just makes me wonder what went wrong in their life path to lead them to sucking on corporations' dicks like they are going to get a reward for it.

[Relapses]

Are we larping now that the negativity and massive losses wow has occured from this terrible expansion of awful ideas is just a minority of players rather then a majority of players?

The game isn't in a particularly worse place than it was in prior expansions. The negativity echo chamber is a very small portion of players. It's just worse now with a bunch of people using shitty Bellular videos to support their predisposed negativity. Oh, and you have to account for all of the FFXIV players who post here to remind everybody how much hotter their new MMO is.

[Mr Crix]

The game isn't in a particularly worse place than it was in prior expansions. The negativity echo chamber is a very small portion of players. It's just worse now with a bunch of people using shitty Bellular videos to support their predisposed negativity. Oh, and you have to account for all of the FFXIV players who post here to remind everybody how much hotter their new MMO is.

Maybe? This expansion has a end of expansion content drought every patch and has so many grinds alts are dead. Worse each expansion selling feature failed spectacularly. I would rather be playing wod.

[Relapses]

Maybe? This expansion has a end of expansion content drought every patch and has so many grinds alts are dead. Worse each expansion selling feature failed spectacularly. I would rather be playing wod.

The content droughts aren't helping, for sure. The Covenant stuff was pretty poorly thought out. I agree there, too. It's getting better with 9.1.5 which cannot come soon enough. But despite everything, I don't think this expansion is in anywhere as bad shape as it was it was back in WoD. Like I said, the doomsaying these days is amplified by streamers/YouTubers who are stoking negativity in the community since that's what gets them views. (For the record, I don't think the criticism is entirely disingenuous. Unless it's Baldular. That guy can fuck off the highest mountain on earth.) I liked WoD a lot and I've been flamed repeatedly for calling it my favorite expansion... but even I wouldn't want to go back to that right now. At least there's M+ these days to keep things at least somewhat interesting.

[Unholyground]

--- snip ---

[Mr Crix]

The content droughts aren't helping, for sure. The Covenant stuff was pretty poorly thought out. I agree there, too. It's getting better with 9.1.5 which cannot come soon enough. But despite everything, I don't think this expansion is in anywhere as bad shape as it was it was back in WoD. Like I said, the doomsaying these days is amplified by streamers/YouTubers who are stoking negativity in the community since that's what gets them views. (For the record, I don't think the criticism is entirely disingenuous. Unless it's Baldular. That guy can fuck off the highest mountain on earth.) I liked WoD a lot and I've been flamed repeatedly for calling it my favorite expansion... but even I wouldn't want to go back to that right now. At least there's M+ these days to keep things at least somewhat interesting.

I would argue wod was a lot stronger of an expansion overall to sl. Better leveling, class design ,better raids, dungeons are a mixed bag... would give that to sl.

[Relapses]

--- snip ---

I'd rather not have 350 ping to play with a bunch of angry Russians who wish it was still 2007.

[Veya30]

The game isn't in a particularly worse place than it was in prior expansions. The negativity echo chamber is a very small portion of players. It's just worse now with a bunch of people using shitty Bellular videos to support their predisposed negativity. Oh, and you have to account for all of the FFXIV players who post here to remind everybody how much hotter their new MMO is.

I used to really like Bellular, but stopped watching his videos during Shadowlands. During the beta he was really excited for Shadowlands and talked about how awesome the expansion was turning out; with the exception of Conduit Energy and Covenant locking, but about 2 weeks or so after SL launch he just did a 180 and hated the expansion. Everyone of his videos was about Conduit energy, covenant locks, Torghast, and anima. However, I barely even noticed any of that stuff in game when I played.

- Torghast was a lot of fun to run with friends and guildmates. I wasn't even aware it was a "Chore" until someone in guild told me that the streamers were calling it that; then it turned into "Choreghast".

- Conduit Energy 99% of my guild never had issues with it, the only complaint people had was having to go back to their sanctum to change conduits, they wanted a Forge of Bonds in Oribos.

- Covenants were mostly chosen for cosmetics, it didn't seem to have a huge impact on DPS and my guild had no issues getting AOTC and KSM in Season 1 playing in non-optimal covenants. Of course some people did play in the "right" covenant, but some times other guildmates could out DPS them by just playing the class better. So it seemed to me that covenant choice was only an issue for the top end Mythic+ community and Mythic raiders.

- Anima was a non-player power grind; if you didn't want cosmetics, you didn't have to grind it. We had several players in our guild who didn't care about upgrading their sanctum and never did. They just logged on and did PvP and or raided with us; it was nice to have a grind that didn't effect player power and could be done when I wanted to do it. There were days I grinded anima and many days I didn't; wasn't a huge deal, but Bellular made it out like it was a huge.

Overall, since Shadowlands came out I've stopped watching Twitch streamers and barely at all even watch youtube videos. It was just annoying constantly seeing youtubers/streamers blow everything out of proportion; I agree that SL isn't perfect, but ever since I stopped watching streamers and youtube, I'm having a lot more fun in the game.

[Delever]

The game isn't in a particularly worse place than it was in prior expansions. The negativity echo chamber is a very small portion of players. It's just worse now with a bunch of people using shitty Bellular videos to support their predisposed negativity. Oh, and you have to account for all of the FFXIV players who post here to remind everybody how much hotter their new MMO is.

Thank God the universe is infinite so it can contain this amount of cope.

[Relapses]

Thank God the universe is infinite so it can contain this amount of cope.

Oh yeah, I forgot about the incredibly intelligent cynics who refer to anything that isn't a complete and total rebuke of WoW as "cope." Thanks for reminding me.

[Ange]

I have 2 DRK, GNB, BRD, MCH, AST and SAM at Extreme trial ready. Last jobs that i dont have at 80 have end game gear waiting them when i get them to max lvl.
In WoW i have hunter in 245 raid gear and paladin i left at 200 because got sick of it. I have no intrest to lvl up another class in wow because of all the rep and anima grind to get it viable for end game content. I liked the raids but all the chores and timegating ruined my fun.

Great to hear that the war agains alt-armies is working.

Blizzard made it clear multiple addons ago, that they dont like it, that they wont allow it and that the game will get changed as soon as people bypass the main>alt progression curve.

I have no issues that some people are really bad at MMOs and choose to reroll all the time and they need a space in this game to do that, even if it would make sense to send them to a better suited genre like action-RPGs or some stupid MMOs that allow zero CHARACTER progression, but hey its blizzard, they allow all kind of stupid niches to exist in game.

But if you demand fully character progression, faster as main-char playing gamers, you need to take a step back and realize its not the game, its you that did not get year and years of clear messages von blizzard devs what they allow and want in the game and what they dont want it here.

Enjoy your Action-RPG's or "MMO"s that allow such nonsense as the main way to play the game - with an army of alts.

[Unholyground]

I'd rather not have 350 ping to play with a bunch of angry Russians who wish it was still 2007.

You clearly have never played on the server it is quite amazing and I have not met one person who is an English yet. Retail wow should be free to play by now they're not going to be able to keep up with new world and the other mmos coming out it's just, not going to happen especially with all the negativity around wow now and the development team. WoW is finally on the way out.

[Yarathir]

If you no longer play WoW and are critical of it, you need a life. If you're "semi-retired" and you're constantly making excuses for Blizzard and minimizing any problems the game might be purported to have, you're doing great. (:

[Veya30]

You clearly have never played on the server it is quite amazing and I have not met one person who is an English yet. Retail wow should be free to play by now they're not going to be able to keep up with new world and the other mmos coming out it's just, not going to happen especially with all the negativity around wow now and the development team. WoW is finally on the way out.

WoW will be fine; I had several guildmates jump ship when FF14 became hot stuff several months ago and all of them are back now. We had a few go to New World and they are back after reaching the 30's and couldn't stomach to login to the game anymore due to repetitive quest grind.

WoW will be fine. FF14 will be fine. ESO will be fine. New World will be fine. In the end, play whatever MMO offers you the most enjoyment.

[Relapses]

If you no longer play WoW and are critical of it, you need a life. If you're "semi-retired" and you're constantly making excuses for Blizzard and minimizing any problems the game might be purported to have, you're doing great. (:

If you're going to call me out at least have the courage to @ me. And in any case, I do neither of those things. I encourage people not to look at things from glass half empty but it seems even a moderate position about WoW gets you flamed these days.

[Delever]

Oh yeah, I forgot about the incredibly intelligent cynics who refer to anything that isn't a complete and total rebuke of WoW as "cope." Thanks for reminding me.

Whatever helps you sleep at night. As I stated above in great detail I have absolutely no issue with people liking the game as that is purely subjective. To state however that the game is in no particular worse state than before is asinine. That is why I said you are coping. If anything the publicity surrounding the game (for whatever reason that is) is already damaging the state of the game by discouraging new players from playing it. The current state of the game is worse than it has ever been. Despite blizzard not directly providing statistics anymore, we are living in 2021 and people have enough agency, tools and smarts to make a relatively accurate projection of the amount of people actively playing the game. And while I don't like bellular, the math on his video where he makes a projection of the amount of people currently playing seem quite reliable. Choosing to ignore a solid statistical projection based on a large enough sample of people to make it accurate is simply coping because it does not abide with your white Knighting.

[AngerFork]

I have no issues that some people are really bad at MMOs and choose to reroll all the time and they need a space in this game to do that, even if it would make sense to send them to a better suited genre like action-RPGs or some stupid MMOs that allow zero CHARACTER progression, but hey its blizzard, they allow all kind of stupid niches to exist in game.

Part of what I feel you are missing in this is that Blizz by design also encourages having alts, even when they do things like rep/anima grinds to discourage them. It's not like FFXIV, players get two professions max. If you want to do any sort of content with all of the proper equipment (flasks, potions, gems, enchants, armor kits, sharpening stones, oils, Vantus runes, legendary base items, etc), you either have to be lucky enough to be in a guild where that stuff is shared, buy them all off of the AH for whatever the price is now, or you have to have profession alts.

Having profession alts to build raid mats does not make someone "really bad at MMOs" as you seem to believe it does.

[Eggroll]

Spot on...
And the funny/sad part is, that at Blizz they are looking for new design and similar jobs non stop, but not one of them sent their resume to Blizz... Or maybe they did and were rejected because, "NO GAME DESIGN EXPERIENCE".

Yeah, I checked the other day. Associate Game Director position still vacant... Might have something to do with the shitty publicity involving the lawsuit...

[Soon-TM]

People are still playing world of garbage pay to win crap? Everybody should come over to the ascension servers classless wow is pretty amazing.

The way the game is atm has led me to throw my monies to a couple of decent *beep* servers instead of the barely disguised P2W fest that is retail. They managed to #$&% up Classic as well, and I'm quite sure that the token will make its way to Classic WotLK onwards.