Revamping m+ rio system

[Mr Crix]

Fun fact: If the tank outranged the Patty Cake it'll one shot the next highest on the threat table in range.

But yeah, I see a lot of that. Getting hooked on Gorechop, getting one shot by the combo for Xav, vacuuming balls on the first/second boss of Spires like a Hoover, breaking a CC'd mob on Amarth right before the cast, failing hooks, 6+ minute Nalthors because people can't kill their adds downstairs... it's just brutal how many opportunities these bosses have for players to prove to the world how much they hate timing keys.

It is part of the reason why I am against the weekly chest beyond it being a obvious time gate.

A large portion of mid tier players rely solely on brute forcing things and are not really tuned in on what's happening.

[Relapses]

It is part of the reason why I am against the weekly chest beyond it being a obvious time gate.

A large portion of mid tier players rely solely on brute forcing things and are not really tuned in on what's happening.

That's not the game's fault... lol.

[Mr Crix]

That's not the game's fault... lol.

It kind of is... but its extremely hard to filter for. You need mechanics designed in a way so failing them is fatal in even trivial content. It's why mechanics that pacify dps are the ones they learn to avoid the quickest.

[Barzotti]

It kind of is... but its extremely hard to filter for. You need mechanics designed in a way so failing them is fatal in even trivial content. It's why mechanics that pacify dps are the ones they learn to avoid the quickest.

You definitely don't want one shot mechanics or too punishing ones even in trivial content if you want to retain players. Players can already have access to fatal mechanics in the higher layers of the game (mythic raids, high M+).

[Leadsop]

M+ needs a second elitism indicator beyond IO score?

tf?

[Mardux]

It kind of is... but its extremely hard to filter for. You need mechanics designed in a way so failing them is fatal in even trivial content. It's why mechanics that pacify dps are the ones they learn to avoid the quickest.

Its definitely not. Nearly every (if not every single) mechanic in 5man content is extremely simple. Its not the game's fault some players can't figure out that 2+2=4 or that "this mechanic will kill me if I stand in it, I should probably not stand in it."

[Berndorf]

The same people who are toxic now would be toxic in m+ no matter what system was put into place. For so many people being toxic is just an extension of how they play mmo's or video games. Changing the system won't magically fix who these people are once they go online.

[Coldkil]

I don't think m+ or rio/score system need a revamp. They do their job well. The issue is all on the players for a multitude of reasons.

Pushers/people who like m+ will just say it's fine and the best content, while the other group will say the opposite. For me, the only issue i have as a non-pusher isnthat some bis gear is in m+ and i have to do them while i don't like them.

Most people in the end just play for the rewards. So they stop at 15s because you get easy 252s from the cache. Doesn't really show how good or bad they are, just that they don't care about m+ enough to partake in a ladder system that doesn't give them nothing valuable.

I would just like to have a hard separation between m+ and said gear, end of story. This way people can do whatever they like the most without being hindered by the fact you have to run stuff you don't care about. I have heard lots of m+ only players complaining about having to farm the raid for the gems even if they literally don't give a shit about it.

[KrayZ33]

There's a whole lot of unsubstantiated guesswork going on there. I'll give you that M+ is easier this season but I think that has more to do with people just getting better at the dungeons over the course of an expansion than it does the seasonal affix.

Nah, the powerlevel scales way harder than the dungeons between seasons.
I'm not that good of a player, I do my KSM and I'm happy, but this season we are going +20 while before we struggled doing a 16 in time.
Really, the powerlevel (raid gems for example) is always nuts the further we go into an expansion, it has never been any different.

[Spiffums]

And would it then be a bad thing if we were able to freely reset the key and replace the underperforming player? I don’t see why it would be bad.

It wouldn't be a bad thing at all! What the person I replied to argued is that people wouldn't just kick the underperforming player after the 1st boss.

[Deneios]

You definitely don't want one shot mechanics or too punishing ones even in trivial content if you want to retain players. Players can already have access to fatal mechanics in the higher layers of the game (mythic raids, high M+).

If you put mechanics that either one shot or give stacking debuff that is more likely to kill you next time you fuck up even in bis gear then people will learn. The thing is you have to start doing that from lower difficulties.
Now leveling, norm and heroic is just pull everything and nuke. Ofc they try to do that in mythic and get their asses handed to them when they can no longer overgear or get carried.

Bring back pandaria role challenges.

[Postmasters]

M+ needs a second elitism indicator beyond IO score?

tf?

Kinda.. you get to many points for failing and to high of a score for low level dungeons. The bar for competence shouldnt be 2300

[ifrah]

The more ranked metrics you introduce, the more people start focusing on those at the expense of other objectives, such as well.. timing the key. Reward for interrupt count, and people will start racing for the kicks to ensure they get the points, risking the next whatever cast going off. Same for avoiding damage, people run in circles just avoiding stuff (and mashing kick of course). The list goes on all the way until the totally paradoxic pipe dream of having fair and objective scores to every single possible metric exist. Which won't happen, goes without saying.
Current system is good enough. It will generally give you a decent idea of the experience of a given player, and some reasonable expectations. They obviously don't always align, but that's life. You will encounter occasional shit when dealing with random strangers, let alone random online strangers anyway.

[Kokolums]

The problem with m+ is the problem with the entire game: an MMO is a *social* game, so the most powerful rewards should go to those who help the most people, not those who complete the most difficult and challenging tasks. So the best stuff should be in the satchel. Do that, and ALL toxicity vanishes.

[LTN]

The problem with m+ is the problem with the entire game: an MMO is a *social* game, so the most powerful rewards should go to those who help the most people, not those who complete the most difficult and challenging tasks. So the best stuff should be in the satchel. Do that, and ALL toxicity vanishes.

I mean no... on all counts. Not only should gear be awarded via difficulty the idea that people wont be toxic as all hell via the reward scheme you mentioned is also wrong.

People would just rage and become petty for upvote points.

[VinceVega]

Blizz should completly seperate gearing in M+/PVP/raiding. No change in open world. But items from foreign content get a 20 iLvl decrease in other content. Bam. Raiders don't have to do PvP or M+ anymore and vice versa.
Open world is not affected.
Or implement set boni that are basically needed in the seperate activities at some point but only work in their respective niches.

- - - Updated - - -

The problem with m+ is the problem with the entire game: an MMO is a *social* game, so the most powerful rewards should go to those who help the most people, not those who complete the most difficult and challenging tasks. So the best stuff should be in the satchel. Do that, and ALL toxicity vanishes.

Yeah sure. Why have gear with stats then at all?

[czarek]

Timers are fun. Yes toxic so much untill you got stable group. Its so diffrent if u do m+ with same ppl against pug.

[Sariengrey]

Personally, I feel the stigma that WoW is toxic and pugging is generally and mostly a toxic affair is a complete exaggeration and something perpetuated by MMO players in general. I play 3-4 characters that ALL run 15-18's (sure not the most elite keys but high enough), always pugs, and 90% of the time runs complete in time and everyone is usually very civil if not nice or just totally quiet. Especially near the middle to end of a season. Sometimes people may be a tad impatient near the start of a season. And don't say I got lucky, I been doing this for years. Literally once in a great while a group breaks down or you run into a real jerk but I got to say it's very infrequent. Most players are nice. Yep, that what I said. This goes for all key runs I do regardless of level. When I do run across the rare ahole, well I remind myself I am pugging but again it's not a common thing hence I feel MMO players in general have perpetuated this WoW is toxic belief but got to say sorry I don't see it. And yes I have raided Mythic(CE) and have played this game for nearly 2 decades with some "colorful" characters, as well as high rank PVP before someone wants to say there is some area of the game I haven't experienced...there isn't.

WoW is not as toxic as the general MMO community will have you believe especially if you're knee deep in it and have some real perspective. I also feel this stigma is generally carried by people who play other MMOS or may have had one too many bad experiences in WoW than they could handle. Still don't feel it's the norm though

[potis]

Personally, I feel the stigma that WoW is toxic and pugging is generally and mostly a toxic affair is a complete exaggeration and something perpetuated by MMO players in general. /

It is and isnt, what they dont understand is that they cause it to each other.

The loudest M+ whiners are simply delusional bad players that dont understand how remotely average or plain bad they are at the game, doing 15s-18s is already being in the top 1% of players.

Its easier to blame others for your shortcomings, than accepting you are a failure at one more thing in your life.

They refuse to learn, they refuse to get better, and because M+ is no longer a new thing, but it has been out for 5 years now, every half decent player has ways to discriminate these players away from them, so they simply became louder, everyone is toxic towards them.

So basically anyone that doesnt accept their mediocre and terrible level of play is toxic, and because they believe they are better than they are, they are toxic to each other, so the lowbie keys, usually 8-10 after the first month or two then 10-14 the months after, are always a cesspool of toxicity, someone pushing past that faster, does not experience it as much.

But god forbid you actually know what to interrupt, whats the priority target and GASP, how to actually play your cooldowns and class!

Its basically the Karens of World of Warcraft that complain about these things, and the problem is, there are a lot.

[shyguybman]

The worst part about m+ is getting in a group, not the toxicity. I very rarely encounter an asshole or a leaver (but you always remember them when it happens).