World of Warcraft News and Development Updates - October 14th, 2021

[Dacia Ultan]

Could y'all have a meeting or something and decide if its Communists or prudish right-wingers that are doing this? I see both and it's very confusing.

Has anyone been attributing it to right-wingers? Because aside from the (heavily rationalized) accusations of prudery (in between accusations of "degeneracy," from people who make it very clear what they're talking about): the accusations they've been making have been of the sort that are customarily aimed at perceived left-wingers (or, rather: at everyone but right-wingers).

When it's not just the "I'm going to accuse you of politicizing everything while simultaneously both openly politicizing everything myself and pretending that my position is completely apolitical" card, anyhow.

[Wekko]

if you were in charge you would keep sexual predators on the team, and keep the references glorifying them within the game?
Good to know.

No, I wouldn't've changed Finkle Einhorn, that was what I was referring to. Just because I don't agree with all the changes doesn't mean I wouldn't've made any of these changes. If you want to load words into my mouth and paint me with a broad brush, let me know, and I'll do the same to you, Chinese Communist Party sympathizer.

[Gangresnake]

You serious... Afrasiabi was not let go for sexual harrasment?
my dude what the utter fuck
he was literally THE MAIN NAME in the lawsuit
https://www.polygon.com/22598602/bli...ft-cosby-suite

I know your icon is a snake
but just how fucking long have you been living under a rock?

“Afrasiabi was so known to engage in harassment of females that his suite was nicknamed the ‘Crosby Suite’ [sic] after alleged rapist Bill Crosby [sic].”

with cree literally being fired for the exact same reason.

how are you so oblivious that you use 2 examples of "people not fired for sexual harassment" who were literally fired for sexual harassment?

Cool story. Still fired for "misconduct" and not sexual harrassment. Both of them.

[FelPlague]

Cool story. Still fired for "misconduct" and not sexual harrassment. Both of them.

Idk if you know... but misconduct includes sexual harassment
you don't get fired for "sexual harassment" you get fired for misconduct
cause sexual harassment is misconduct.
my dude you fucking seriously defending fucking alex "Cosby suite, gropes women" afriasiabi?

[Gangresnake]

Idk if you know... but misconduct includes sexual harassment
you don't get fired for "sexual harassment" you get fired for misconduct
cause sexual harassment is misconduct.
my dude you fucking seriously defending fucking alex "Cosby suite, gropes women" afriasiabi?

You absolutely do get fired for sexual harrassment. But I'm not too versed with California Law so I'm gonna give you the benefit of the doubt.

Now, what about Metzen and Pat Nagle ? I dont see their allegation of misconduct.

[FelPlague]

You absolutely do get fired for sexual harrassment. But I'm not too versed with California Law so I'm gonna give you the benefit of the doubt.

Now, what about Metzen and Pat Nagle ? I dont see their allegation of misconduct.

1. not "california" everywhere, if you are fired for sexual harramsnet, they dont call it that, they call is misconduct, even here in canada... that is literally it. a company wont say "you were fired for raping someone" they will say "you were fired for misconduct"

2. christ metzen he was stated to have known about all this and said/done nothing, and was even a dick to co-workers, a female co-worker of his was talking to him one time of wishing to expand her horizions and become more then just a (cant remember)
he said "stick to what your good at kiddo"

3. pat nagle hasn't had his references removed... although he may, as its very likely he was in the same boat as chris.

[MoanaLisa]

Has anyone been attributing it to right-wingers? Because aside from the (heavily rationalized) accusations of prudery (in between accusations of "degeneracy," from people who make it very clear what they're talking about): the accusations they've been making have been of the sort that are customarily aimed at perceived left-wingers (or, rather: at everyone but right-wingers).

When it's not just the "I'm going to accuse you of politicizing everything while simultaneously both openly politicizing everything myself and pretending that my position is completely apolitical" card, anyhow.

I've seen both here on the site which is why I've framed it like I did.

Mostly I'm against going after people because they are 'other'. Applies to race, gender, pronouns, whatever else. We are all more the same than not. There are plenty of groups around that have suffered years of being pushed around and held back because of their 'otherness' and it's fair to point out how inconsistent the rules seem to be and why they might be pushing back the first opportunity they get. For what its worth, the textual and name changes are the tiniest molehill blown so far out of proportion it takes the breath away and only serves to reveal the misogyny and xenophobia that sits under the cover of 'politics'.

[Gangresnake]

1. not "california" everywhere, if you are fired for sexual harramsnet, they dont call it that, they call is misconduct, even here in canada... that is literally it. a company wont say "you were fired for raping someone" they will say "you were fired for misconduct"

2. christ metzen he was stated to have known about all this and said/done nothing, and was even a dick to co-workers, a female co-worker of his was talking to him one time of wishing to expand her horizions and become more then just a (cant remember)
he said "stick to what your good at kiddo"

3. pat nagle hasn't had his references removed... although he may, as its very likely he was in the same boat as chris.

1. Wrong. Not how it work where I live.

2. Ok so Chris Metzen didnt do anything to deserve you labelling him as a sexual predator. That's good to know. But they're still scrubbing his name from the records despite him being the brain behind the entire franchise. Because he was allegedly kinda mean to someone near the watercooler. That's a brave stance you're taking here.

3. I know his name isnt scrubbed, but at the rate where things are going, yeah, he might be gone soon.

On the same subject I'd like to point out that Madeleine Roux, who went on numerous racist rants on Twitter not long ago, still have her NPC in Maldraxxus. Bit of an interesting oversight for such a zealous dev team.

[ElDoorO]

1. not "california" everywhere, if you are fired for sexual harramsnet, they dont call it that, they call is misconduct, even here in canada... that is literally it. a company wont say "you were fired for raping someone" they will say "you were fired for misconduct"

2. christ metzen he was stated to have known about all this and said/done nothing, and was even a dick to co-workers, a female co-worker of his was talking to him one time of wishing to expand her horizions and become more then just a (cant remember)
he said "stick to what your good at kiddo"

3. pat nagle hasn't had his references removed... although he may, as its very likely he was in the same boat as chris.

"Stick to what you're good at" isn't a bad thing nor is it rude. There have also been history who didn't show neither a natural talent nor a strong affinity for a thing only for them to snub others in the future and being shown great at a thing.

For every one "great" there are millions of "not greats". And that's ok. Most everyone is average -- it's nothing to be ashamed of or celebrate. It's just the definition of normal/average.

There are people who said Linux will never amount to anything more than a hobby and there are people who swore by OS/2.

The fact she was so fragile as to have that damage her means she's probably not meant for the lime light -- which is hot.

Except she's a female inside of a company during a sexual harassment suit. So any negative thing said to any female ever at the company is brought to attention and specifically ignoring any male issues. Smells is misandry but whatever.

In all cases, it's pretty clear Blizzards dev team doesn't understand the difference between fixing the workplace and a fantasy game. It's easy to do a name swap in a game. It's hard to change internal behavior. Clearly some of the dev's are only focusing on the game aspects that 'trigger' them due to a lack of therapy.

In all cases we, the player base, lose -- so far. Each time I see them make a silly change I learn few of them honestly understand the problem and do I really want to enable such behavior by staying subscribed?

[Dacia Ultan]

On the same subject I'd like to point out that Madeleine Roux, who went on numerous racist rants on Twitter not long ago, still have her NPC in Maldraxxus. Bit of an interesting oversight for such a zealous dev team.

Isn't "racist" just a silencing tactic used against anyone who disagrees with left-wing political opinions? And don't only "snowflakes" use it? Because that's sure as hell what I've been hearing elsewhere in discussions on this whole fiasco.

Or are self-deprecating remarks about one's own ancestry and/or potshots at unmerited preferential treatment the official threshold for what counts as "racist" now?

[Gangresnake]

Isn't "racist" just a silencing tactic used against anyone who disagrees with left-wing political opinions? And don't only "snowflakes" use it? Because that's sure as hell what I've been hearing elsewhere in discussions on this whole fiasco.

Or are one self-deprecating remark, and several about unmerited preferential treatment, the official threshold for what counts as "racist" now?

I dont see how that schizophrenic rant have anything to do with my post. Maybe it's a cultural thing. I'm not american sorry.

Let me simplify : If they're really cleaning shop of all the IRL names associated with anything negative, how come they missed a spot ?

[Dacia Ultan]

I dont see how that schizophrenic rant have anything to do with my post. Maybe it's a cultural thing. I'm not american sorry. Let me simplify : If they're really cleaning shop of all the IRL names associated with anything negative, how come they missed a spot ?

Nice ad hominem. Really helps your case there.

Let me simplify for you: for your assertion that Madeleine Roux "went on several racist rants" (or any) to be accurate, one would need very selective definitions of both "racist" and "rant," and a double standard or five. (But I'm sure you're way ahead of at least the "selective definitions" part; you did, after all, also call my post a "rant.")

And, at any rate: they didn't "miss a spot." Aside from your premise being false: Madeleine Roux is a contractor, not an employee. Next contestant?

[Gangresnake]

Your ad hominem aside? Let me simplify for you: for your assertion that Madeleine Roux "went on several racist rants" (or any) to be accurate, one would need a very selective definition of both "racist" and "rant," and a double standard or five.

And, at any rate: they didn't "miss a spot." Aside from your premise being false: Madeleine Roux is a contractor, not an employee. Next contestant?

When you repeatedly single out a specific race and gender to insult them I think it's reasonable to call that racism and sexism. The fact you dont see it that way lead me to question your own double standard.

Oh she's not an employee ? Neither is Metzen. He left long ago. Still getting scrubbed tho.

[Self Inflicted Wounds]

Nice ad hominem. Really helps your case there.

Let me simplify for you: for your assertion that Madeleine Roux "went on several racist rants" (or any) to be accurate, one would need very selective definitions of both "racist" and "rant," and a double standard or five. (But I'm sure you're way ahead of at least the "selective definitions" part; you did, after all, also call my post a "rant.")

And, at any rate: they didn't "miss a spot." Aside from your premise being false: Madeleine Roux is a contractor, not an employee. Next contestant?

Well, what exactly did she say? It doesn't matter if she is an employee or contractor, thats besides the point. They are removing the names of people or references that are inappropriate, it doesn't matter if they are employees. I don't believe Metzen is currently employed by Blizzard, for instance.

I don't know what Roux did, I'm not being sarcastic, I just don't think that she is/was a contractor matters at all. Either she was inappropriate and should lose her reference or she wasn't inappropriate.

[Dacia Ultan]

Well, what exactly did she say? It doesn't matter if she is an employee or contractor, thats besides the point. They are removing the names of people or references that are inappropriate, it doesn't matter if they are employees. I don't believe Metzen is currently employed by Blizzard, for instance.

I don't know what Roux did, I'm not being sarcastic, I just don't think that she is/was a contractor matters at all. Either she was inappropriate and should lose her reference or she wasn't inappropriate.

She made a self-deprecating remark ("get your shit together," to be precise) about white people (she's white), made a few context-specific (as in: many were replies which have been deliberately uncoupled from the greater discussions in which they happened) snide remarks about white men (or, rather: about white male entitlement and white men whom she perceived as contributing to negative trends), and told a few players who accused her of "hating white men" to fuck off.

It should be easy enough to find the tweet screencap collage that people have been spamming around. I'm not going to disseminate it myself, because—as I implied—there was clearly manipulative editing and a prior grudge (I won't say that it was definitely about her being the one who hooked Mathias Shaw up with Flynn Fairwind, but will speculate that it probably was) involved. But suffice to say that my husband—who is also white—has talked worse smack about white guys than that.

[Self Inflicted Wounds]

She made a self-deprecating remark ("get your shit together," to be precise) about white people (she's white), made a few context-specific (as in: many were replies which have been deliberately uncoupled from the greater discussions in which they happened) snide remarks about white men (or, rather: about white male entitlement and white men whom she perceived as contributing to negative trends), and told a few players who accused her of "hating white men" to fuck off.

It should be easy enough to find the tweet screencap collage that people have been spamming around. I'm not going to disseminate it myself, because—as I implied—there was clearly manipulative editing and a prior grudge involved. But suffice to say that my husband—who is also white—has talked worse smack about white guys than that.

Thanks for the writeup. I didn't want to look up a collage because I have found some in the past to be fake/edited/heavily out of context, so you know how that goes, I don't trust them anymore.

I don't know that telling people to get their shit together is anywhere close enough to "hate" for her to be called racist or sexist, but its easy to start "seeing things" if you know what I mean when you spend a lot of time on Twitter. It doesn't sound like she was calling for the death of all men or something.

[Dacia Ultan]

Thanks for the writeup. I didn't want to look up a collage because I have found some in the past to be fake/edited/heavily out of context, so you know how that goes, I don't trust them anymore.

I don't know that telling people to get their shit together is anywhere close enough to "hate" for her to be called racist or sexist, but its easy to start "seeing things" if you know what I mean when you spend a lot of time on Twitter. It doesn't sound like she was calling for the death of all men or something.

Nowhere near (and it appears that at least some of them may have been outright fake). Nonetheless: a whole bunch of the same sort of people who will call you a "snowflake" for saying that Pip Quickwit's name change was probably a good idea got horribly offended and launched a smear and harassment campaign against her. (Again: while I'm not going to say anything definitive, I suspect that what kicked it off was her having been the one who hooked Mathias Shaw up with Flynn Fairwind.)

[Gangresnake]

Thanks for the writeup. I didn't want to look up a collage because I have found some in the past to be fake/edited/heavily out of context, so you know how that goes, I don't trust them anymore.

I don't know that telling people to get their shit together is anywhere close enough to "hate" for her to be called racist or sexist, but its easy to start "seeing things" if you know what I mean when you spend a lot of time on Twitter. It doesn't sound like she was calling for the death of all men or something.

The collage isnt edited/faked as far I'm aware. It's """missing context""" but there's not a lot of context that would allow me to publicly say "[This race] must be stopped" and not suffer some kind of consequences.

You might think it's not a big deal. And it bring me to my original point : Chris Metzen's name is getting scrubbed from the records for very flimsy reasons and she's not. If the bar is set that low, her behavior definitely qualify as inappropriate.

[Dacia Ultan]

The collage isnt edited/faked as far I'm aware. It's """missing context""" but there's not a lot of context that would allow me to publicly say "[This race] must be stopped" and not suffer some kind of consequences.

For one: at least some of the tweets were apparently fake; no one could find evidence that they'd ever existed. For another, she's white; it was self-deprecating. And for another: "must be stopped" is pretty damn vague and innocuous.

You might think it's not a big deal. And it bring me to my original point : Chris Metzen's name is getting scrubbed from the records for very flimsy reasons and she's not. If the bar is set that low, her behavior definitely qualify as inappropriate.

If he was an active enabler: that's not "flimsy" at all. And if his name really is being "scrubbed from the records," I'm sure you can provide proof...right?

[Whitedragon]

You found this stupidity funny? Sorry, but good comedy does not rely on such jokes.
Jim Carrey had many good movies, this was not one of them.

Untrue, many say that Jim Carreys big brake came in 1994 with 2 movies, Ace and the mask. That is when he started making a name for himself out side of his previous endeavors.