Survival revamp inevitable?

[Nachtigal]

Survival is actually fun tho

[threads]

I mean it is called survival, and there is no mail wearing tank. As someone who played hunter until my spec was deleted, a tank hunter makes more sense than a demon hunter or a drunk monk does, and it definitely makes more sense than the melee version.

its called survival cause it's based off survivalists in the wild. aka laying traps and sitting in camouflage and making shit with leaves. i dont think many hunters run around face tanking bears and deers.

[Devilyaki]

this shit pisses me off every time i see it. literally my fav spec and char i played in the game for 10 years deleted for some random people to have a dumb meme alt

Same, old one was fun. Hunters are range and this melee doesn’t fit. Know the five people still playing melee hunter will be mad at this but oh well. The game was over run with melee already and they ruined a good spec for this..

[cparle87]

This is all up to subjective opinion, but the fact that ranged SV was a widely popular spec that people still reminisce about today while melee Survival is consistently one of the least popular specs and has always caused immense controversy on the forums tells us that not a lot of people share your opinion.

This just in.
People reminiscing about things in the past does not make them superior to what it in the present.
Popularity does not equal fun and people are allowed to like unpopular things.
Being a cause for controversy does not make a thing bad.
Other people not sharing an unpopular opinion does not make the unpopular opinion wrong.

Other hard hitting but often ignored facts in our news at 11.

[prwraith]

MoP era survival hunter was my favorite all-time spec :/

- - - Updated - - -

This just in.
People reminiscing about things in the past does not make them superior to what it in the present.
Popularity does not equal fun and people are allowed to like unpopular things.
Being a cause for controversy does not make a thing bad.
Other people not sharing an unpopular opinion does not make the unpopular opinion wrong.

Other hard hitting but often ignored facts in our news at 11.

Pretty one sided thoughts tbh. The counter;

People playing presently does not make them superior to what was in the past
Modernness does not equal fun, people are allowed to prefer the past
Being a cause for controversy does not make a thing good
Other people sharing a popular opinion does not make the popular opinion right

None of what you stated are facts btw. Neither is what I stated. They're just statements; Don't try to pass of your position as anything more than what it is.

[KrayZ33]

For the record this has always been and will always be a stupid idea. Tanking neither fits the Hunter class identity nor the expectations of the people playing it.

Meh - it's not like tanking fits the DH "class identity", yet no one really questions that either. And why would they, it doens't matter.
DH is as good as a tank as Rogue in that regard.

people will expect a class to be whatever the class is designed as.
If they write "shoot enemies from afar or get close with your pet while keeping your party safe and control the enemy" as a class description, it's already done.

[tru]

I was just about to make a post about survival hunters, is there any chance they will be good? I mean atleast mid to mid-high tier. I really enjoy the spec but the damage is SOOOO low compared to other classes. Is this spec doomed forever or will it see the light some day.

If it was gonna see light of day they would have done it in legion with the rework... But they didn't expecting it now is sad at this point

[Makaloff]

I still hope they introduce RSV as a 4th specc in the expansion after SL, it would make both sides happy (and it wouldnt force MM to pick ES talent), after all due them introducing the bow and the quiver only works for BM/MM i think its in the pipeline that they gonna change surv. Hell the specc havent even gotten any major changes since its introduction in legion.

[Dadwen]

This just in.
People reminiscing about things in the past does not make them superior to what it in the present.
Popularity does not equal fun and people are allowed to like unpopular things.
Being a cause for controversy does not make a thing bad.
Other people not sharing an unpopular opinion does not make the unpopular opinion wrong.

Other hard hitting but often ignored facts in our news at 11.

has at any point the current population of Melee hunters been more or much than the lowest level of Survival hunters when it was ranged?

Popularity does equal more people happen than not though... (kinda important in a product don't ya think?)

[Pauper]

I don't know this kind seems a bit like "reaching" to me, the whole bow and quiver off Sly means RSV is coming back. Anything could happen ( I don't possess special insider Blizzard knowledge) but it seems a lot to infer from 2 item drops off a raid boss. As a SV hunter, I have no problems with Sly not dropping a legendary spear or something. Sly has always been depicted as the ranged version of the hunter, in fact I would argue at this point almost like a magic archer from dragon's dogma (anyone remember that game ?) than a MM hunter.

[Ealyssa]

kinda important in a product don't ya think?

No it actually isn't in this case. By this logic we should remove any ranged that isn't balance druid, any melee that isn't DH, any tank that isn't druid and any healer that isn't a rsham (took RIO class representation, IDC if it's not 100% accurate you get the point if you're not a idiot).

It's ok to be the least played spec, their will always be one. Being last doesn't really matter, what only matter is how far last a spec can be and that's pretty much only a balance problem. If survival was the highest DPS for M+, it would be the most played hunter spec. It's really as simple as that. Every single class that can be melee or ranged (druid, shaman, hunter) are heavily unbalanced toward ranged and that's one of the big problem of wow.

[shoc]

They should just turn it into a Dark Ranger spec instead.

[Dadwen]

No it actually isn't in this case. By this logic we should remove any ranged that isn't balance druid, any melee that isn't DH, any tank that isn't druid and any healer that isn't a rsham (took RIO class representation, IDC if it's not 100% accurate you get the point if you're not a idiot).

It's ok to be the least played spec, their will always be one. Being last doesn't really matter, what only matter is how far last a spec can be and that's pretty much only a balance problem. If survival was the highest DPS for M+, it would be the most played hunter spec. It's really as simple as that. Every single class that can be melee or ranged (druid, shaman, hunter) are heavily unbalanced toward ranged and that's one of the big problem of wow.

Were any of those other non popular spec's created on the grave of a more popular spec? *wasn't it the highest DPS during part of legion and still the least played?

face it, it's the new coke of the WOW Specs... (blizzard just has a bigger ego than the coke company an won't admit their mistake and undo it.)

[Bepples]

has at any point the current population of Melee hunters been more or much than the lowest level of Survival hunters when it was ranged?

Survival's worst point in terms of PvE representation was actually likely 6.2 when it was ranged but it took them removing a core mechanic of the spec and making it barely out-compete tanks for that to happen. What's remarkable about melee SV isn't just how unpopular it is but how consistently unpopular it is. Uldir was its peak and it was still among the least popular specs in the game and that was when its single target was at least A tier.

It's ok to be the least played spec, their will always be one. Being last doesn't really matter, what only matter is how far last a spec can be and that's pretty much only a balance problem.

As Dadwen pointed out this is not the absolving excuse you think it is because the current Survival exists as a replacement to a previous iteration which was very popular. When something undergoes a major change and its popularity plummets as a result we tend to regard that change as a failure; we don't tend to shrug it off and say "oh well, something has to be last place". Evidently the change was negative.

If survival was the highest DPS for M+, it would be the most played hunter spec.

It's performance is very high in M+ right now; it's actually the best for large AoE pulls because it's the only Hunter spec with reliable uncapped AoE. That didn't save the spec. It's still the least played in M+ out of all specs. Evidently the problem is much larger than just tuning.

Every single class that can be melee or ranged (druid, shaman, hunter) are heavily unbalanced toward ranged and that's one of the big problem of wow.

Yes, it's a difficult situation when melee and ranged are mixed within the same class. We knew that from Druids and Shamans. Why, then, did Blizzard do that to a third class? They had to know it wouldn't turn out well.

[keyone01]

has at any point the current population of Melee hunters been more or much than the lowest level of Survival hunters when it was ranged

The only time survival managed to achieve something in pve was to beat mm in amount of parses during uldir. You know, that broken version of mm that no one played, with trueshot giving you 1 charge of aimed shot and the only kinda working st build ignoring half of abilities to buff aimed shot dmg.

Pvp is another story - giving msv strong utility talents not obtainable for other specs done its job and artificially pumped participation numbers.

[Dadwen]

The only time survival managed to achieve something in pve was to beat mm in amount of parses during uldir. You know, that broken version of mm that no one played, with trueshot giving you 1 charge of aimed shot and the only kinda working st build ignoring half of abilities to buff aimed shot dmg.

Pvp is another story - giving msv strong utility talents not obtainable for other specs done its job and artificially pumped participation numbers.

but at it's worse was RSV was ever as low hanging as MSV (just about at it's best)?

[Pauper]

Were any of those other non popular spec's created on the grave of a more popular spec? *wasn't it the highest DPS during part of legion and still the least played?

face it, it's the new coke of the WOW Specs... (blizzard just has a bigger ego than the coke company an won't admit their mistake and undo it.)

Are you sure it is an ego or mistake thing? It could simply be that blizzard is happy with MSV. I am thinking it is more of melee is how blizzard's see survival as opposed to a true ranged spec.

At the same time I could be completely off base, maybe MSV is a failure and blizz just doesn't want to admit it to save face but I don't think blizzard would be that prideful/stubborn.

[unbound]

Are you sure it is an ego or mistake thing? It could simply be that blizzard is happy with MSV. I am thinking it is more of melee is how blizzard's see survival as opposed to a true ranged spec.

At the same time I could be completely off base, maybe MSV is a failure and blizz just doesn't want to admit it to save face but I don't think blizzard would be that prideful/stubborn.

Oh, Blizz is very much that prideful/stubborn.

When they gave humans a major advantage in PvP, they refused to admit it was a major advantage despite huge numbers of Horde players switching to Alliance and Human in particular.

They changed that racial bonus 2 expansions later and still refused to admit that they messed up.

[Mardux]

its called survival cause it's based off survivalists in the wild. aka laying traps and sitting in camouflage and making shit with leaves. i dont think many hunters run around face tanking bears and deers.

And how many hunters do you think are running around with tamed dinosaurs and tamed pink elephants?

- - - Updated - - -

The only time survival managed to achieve something in pve was to beat mm in amount of parses during uldir. You know, that broken version of mm that no one played, with trueshot giving you 1 charge of aimed shot and the only kinda working st build ignoring half of abilities to buff aimed shot dmg.

Pvp is another story - giving msv strong utility talents not obtainable for other specs done its job and artificially pumped participation numbers.

Sure. Except for those other patches where it was still beating both marks and bm. But i guess we can just pretend those patches never existed, right?

[keyone01]

Sure. Except for those other patches where it was still beating both marks and bm. But i guess we can just pretend those patches never existed, right?

Question was about popularity of the spec, feel free to prove me wrong.
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/zone/statistics/10 - first tier of sv being melee, sort by amount of parses - you will quickly see the pattern by going to our times

edit: funnily enough, mm barely beat in popularity msv even in uldir so... yeah.

Yes, there were times when playing msv could be better than other specs (soloing ghuun orb on mythic after change, guldan m, i'm pretty sure msv was also better to play in crucible m after the change to not be PITA for melee), but it was always better to bring other melees due to raid cds, buffs, utility and (ironically) survivalibity, be range and do mechanics for your raid without sacrificing dps or... reroll to better range because possible muldidot spec fantasy was buried in favour of discount bm throwing grenades in his face.

Yes, yes, bombs are currently uncapped - enjoy your special privilage, soon most specs will be :P