Poll: Do you believe in psychics, extraterrestrial life, time travel, other universes?

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  1. #381
    The Unstoppable Force Ielenia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowferal View Post
    You mean helping government entities or high end criminal elements...
    Are you equating "helping other people" to "helping high end criminal elements"? Are you really doing that? You're twisting my words to such incredibly dishonest degrees I can't help but think you might be trolling me, trying to bait me to lose my cool, here.

    You imagine they have choices...I suppose they do, one option is a bullet in the brain pan.
    Why would they be killed? Who would want them killed? If someone has a supernatural power, if they reveal themselves-- and prove they have actual "real deal" supernatural power-- they'd become internationally famous.

    And no. Those weren't the options I presented. I specifically mention: anonymity, or helping other people or profiting.
    "Torturing someone is not an evil thing to do if it is done for good reasons" by Varodoc
    "You sit in OG/SW waiting on a Mythic+ queue" by Altmer <- Oh, the pearls in this forum...
    "They sort of did this Dragonriding, which ushered in the Dracthyr race." by Teriz <- the BS some people reach for their narratives...

  2. #382
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    Why would they be killed? Who would want them killed? If someone has a supernatural power, if they reveal themselves-- and prove they have actual "real deal" supernatural power-- they'd become internationally famous.
    Just a question, I don't agree with Shadowferal here, but you really don't think that if someone had superpowers that there would be absolutely no one who would want them dead? No government deciding the risk is too great or anything like that?
    Peace is a lie. There is only passion. Through passion I gain strength. Through strength I gain power.
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  3. #383
    The Unstoppable Force Ielenia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darththeo View Post
    Just a question, I don't agree with Shadowferal here, but you really don't think that if someone had superpowers that there would be absolutely no one who would want them dead? No government deciding the risk is too great or anything like that?
    To quote from the "Meet the Sniper" TF2 video: "as long as there's at least two people left on a planet, someone is going to want someone dead." In other words: no, I don't believe "no one would want to kill said person". However, the one I replied implied that, if someone with superpowers revealed themselves, they would die. Not "could", but "would". And this is, in my opinion, nothing but bullshit conspiracist kind of thinking.

    "Earth is flat and that's a fact!" "It doesn't! All evidence shown has been debunked!" "Oh, but the 'real deal' evidence exists, but it's not gonna be revealed, because the 'globalist' will do everything in their power to destroy the evidence or kill those who know it!" That's the kind of logic it's being employed here.

    Now let me ask you: why would any government want to kill a person with supernatural powers? What "risk" is there?
    "Torturing someone is not an evil thing to do if it is done for good reasons" by Varodoc
    "You sit in OG/SW waiting on a Mythic+ queue" by Altmer <- Oh, the pearls in this forum...
    "They sort of did this Dragonriding, which ushered in the Dracthyr race." by Teriz <- the BS some people reach for their narratives...

  4. #384
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    To quote from the "Meet the Sniper" TF2 video: "as long as there's at least two people left on a planet, someone is going to want someone dead." In other words: no, I don't believe "no one would want to kill said person". However, the one I replied implied that, if someone with superpowers revealed themselves, they would die. Not "could", but "would". And this is, in my opinion, nothing but bullshit conspiracist kind of thinking.

    "Earth is flat and that's a fact!" "It doesn't! All evidence shown has been debunked!" "Oh, but the 'real deal' evidence exists, but it's not gonna be revealed, because the 'globalist' will do everything in their power to destroy the evidence or kill those who know it!" That's the kind of logic it's being employed here.

    Now let me ask you: why would any government want to kill a person with supernatural powers? What "risk" is there?
    Your question does not have a simple answer. As it greatly depends on the power. Psychic covers a wide range unfortunately (essentially where it falls into the unprovable category.) If a person were to have the capability of reading any thought a government official had, you can see that something like that poses a security risk? Look at what government whistleblowers have revealed, now image someone not even needing to have access themselves.

    Governments have killed to protect secrets. A person capable of finding your secrets out that you can't control therefore is a risk.

    Though, now I am imaging if there were tons of people who could fly that they would be regulated like people flying drones are.
    Peace is a lie. There is only passion. Through passion I gain strength. Through strength I gain power.
    Through power I gain victory. Through victory my chains are broken. The Force shall set me free.
    –The Sith Code

  5. #385
    Quote Originally Posted by Dch48 View Post
    Okay, explain this then.
    Yeah, it didn’t happen the way you remember it. You simply created a false memory. This is a phenomenon that people know can happen. Unlike having psychic visions years into the future.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dch48 View Post
    Now you tell me.
    I’ve certainly had deja vu moments like that. But like I said before, it’s just an interesting anomaly where a sensory input leads the brain to associate it with the feeling of a memory that never really happened.

    As for those remote viewing experiments in the 70s and 80s, they were an absolute farce. Conducted under the loosest control conditions and declassified because they were completely useless. There have never been any verifiable examples of psychic ability that could stand up to the most rudimentary scientific scrutiny. Never.

  6. #386
    Are we talking about Logan now?
    This all sounds suspiciously like a Logan film with Jean in it.

  7. #387
    The Unstoppable Force Ielenia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darththeo View Post
    Your question does not have a simple answer. As it greatly depends on the power. Psychic covers a wide range unfortunately (essentially where it falls into the unprovable category.) If a person were to have the capability of reading any thought a government official had, you can see that something like that poses a security risk? Look at what government whistleblowers have revealed, now image someone not even needing to have access themselves.

    Governments have killed to protect secrets. A person capable of finding your secrets out that you can't control therefore is a risk.
    Yeah. And on the flipside, governments would love to have someone on their side who can read the minds of others to extract information. Such an ability can also be studied to find ways of replicating it, or shielding against it.

    Not to mention that such a person, as I mentioned, would be internationally famous. It's one thing to kill a random nobody that no one in the world knows past their fifteen minutes of fame (i.e. a whistleblower) but it's another thing entirely to kill someone who is internationally famous. And since you mentioned mind reading, specifically, how would you kill it, if it can read your mind and know you're coming after it?

    And going back to your whistleblowers example: why aren't they being killed? Why aren't those people dying before they have a chance to reveal such information, if, like you said, "governments have killed to protect secrets"?
    "Torturing someone is not an evil thing to do if it is done for good reasons" by Varodoc
    "You sit in OG/SW waiting on a Mythic+ queue" by Altmer <- Oh, the pearls in this forum...
    "They sort of did this Dragonriding, which ushered in the Dracthyr race." by Teriz <- the BS some people reach for their narratives...

  8. #388
    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    Are you equating "helping other people" to "helping high end criminal elements"? Are you really doing that?

    Why would they be killed? Who would want them killed? If someone has a supernatural power, if they reveal themselves-- and prove they have actual "real deal" supernatural power-- they'd become internationally famous.

    And no. Those weren't the options I presented. I specifically mention: anonymity, or helping other people or profiting.
    If you're public about it, such as telling people you can hit the billion dollar lottery and proving it, what's to prevent Joe Mafioso to visit you and your family, because he knows just enough about you, and telling you in no uncertain terms that you work for him now?
    What's to prevent g-man CIA telling you that you're going to work the stock market for them because they need more funding?

    Bottom line, there's always an element of threat and fear. And it's because you didn't listen to your innate ability that told you to never go public. You want to play superhero? Then wear a "mask." Anonymity will keep you and your friends and family safe.

  9. #389
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    Yeah. And on the flipside, governments would love to have someone on their side who can read the minds of others to extract information. Such an ability can also be studied to find ways of replicating it, or shielding against it.

    Not to mention that such a person, as I mentioned, would be internationally famous. It's one thing to kill a random nobody that no one in the world knows past their fifteen minutes of fame (i.e. a whistleblower) but it's another thing entirely to kill someone who is internationally famous. And since you mentioned mind reading, specifically, how would you kill it, if it can read your mind and know you're coming after it?

    And going back to your whistleblowers example: why aren't they being killed? Why aren't those people dying before they have a chance to reveal such information, if, like you said, "governments have killed to protect secrets"?
    This depends on what you personally believe with some celebs deaths. There are a lot who believe some famous person was offed by the government for "reasons."

    As for why not all whistleblowers are killed, there can be reasons to keep them alive. Just like there could be reasons to keep psychics alive (if they existed). I like these kind of thought experiments personally. What if X existed, what would happen. It is fun to think about, I don't believe any of it. It is just fun to think on.

    Seems Shadowferal thinks psychics are real and for some reasons all true psychics have no reason to come forward.
    Peace is a lie. There is only passion. Through passion I gain strength. Through strength I gain power.
    Through power I gain victory. Through victory my chains are broken. The Force shall set me free.
    –The Sith Code

  10. #390
    Quote Originally Posted by Darththeo View Post
    Seems Shadowferal thinks psychics are real and for some reasons all true psychics have no reason to come forward.
    It seems you missed the post that says my preference is to keep an open mind.
    And yeah; fame does put a target on one's back.

  11. #391
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dch48 View Post
    Nope, it's more than that. I have seen future events. You probably have as well. No illusions involved.
    No you haven't and neither have I. Deja vu has been studied because it's weird as fuck. Countless studies about precognition have been done and not a single one has shown anyone to be prophetic. If people truly did see the future in their dreams, at least ONE study would show that someone has been doing so, but none of them have. Unless of course this magical future-seeing ability ONLY works when you don't record people's dreams beforehand... how convenient.

    Strange how prophecies only end up being prophecies AFTER an event happens isn't it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowferal View Post
    It seems you missed the post that says my preference is to keep an open mind.
    And yeah; fame does put a target on one's back.
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  12. #392
    The Unstoppable Force Ielenia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowferal View Post
    If you're public about it, such as telling people you can hit the billion dollar lottery and proving it, what's to prevent Joe Mafioso to visit you and your family, because he knows just enough about you, and telling you in no uncertain terms that you work for him now?
    What's to prevent g-man CIA telling you that you're going to work the stock market for them because they need more funding?
    You'd think someone with those kinds of abilities would be left unprotected after they prove themselves to have real super-powers. And since you're talking about mind-readers and/or those who predict the future, I think it'd be a good idea to not mess with someone who can expose your secrets as easily as one can blink.

    Bottom line, there's always an element of threat and fear. And it's because you didn't listen to your innate ability that told you to never go public.
    Oh, look. Another claim pulled out of where the sun doesn't shine. So now supernatural abilities are sentient and give you advice? Who ever said "my psychic abilities are telling me to not go public?" You're just making yourself sound more and more ridiculous, here.

    You want to play superhero? Then wear a "mask." Anonymity will keep you and your friends and family safe.
    Yeah, this isn't a comic book, bucko. No one is saying "be a super-hero."

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowferal View Post
    It seems you missed the post that says my preference is to keep an open mind.
    "Always keep an open mind" is the same thing as saying "always keep your mouth open". Flies and other kind of harmful stuff can end up getting inside.

    It's like the saying goes: "keep your mind open but not so open your brain falls out."

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    Quote Originally Posted by Darththeo View Post
    This depends on what you personally believe with some celebs deaths. There are a lot who believe some famous person was offed by the government for "reasons."
    And those people are called "conspiracy theorists". For those same "reasons" I can say that JFK's assassin actually intended to murder the driver, but missed the shot and hit JFK by complete accident.

    As for why not all whistleblowers are killed, there can be reasons to keep them alive.
    I'm sorry, but no. You said, and I quote: governments have killed to protect secrets. And if that is true, that they're willing to kill indiscriminately simply for the risk that they may or may not get their secrets leaked, why aren't whistleblowers not being killed? Just saying "because reasons" is not an answer.
    "Torturing someone is not an evil thing to do if it is done for good reasons" by Varodoc
    "You sit in OG/SW waiting on a Mythic+ queue" by Altmer <- Oh, the pearls in this forum...
    "They sort of did this Dragonriding, which ushered in the Dracthyr race." by Teriz <- the BS some people reach for their narratives...

  13. #393
    Quote Originally Posted by kranur View Post
    Extraterestrial life is impossible to not exist
    Why do you think that? It's quite possible that it doesn't exist, as I've argued strenuously in various places in here.
    "There is a pervasive myth that making content hard will induce players to rise to the occasion. We find the opposite. " -- Ghostcrawler
    "The bit about hardcore players not always caring about the long term interests of the game is spot on." -- Ghostcrawler
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  14. #394
    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    I'll save others 12:27 of their lives and tell you that nowhere there does NdGT say life is likely elsewhere in the universe. He says it's POSSIBLE life is out there, and I would agree with him. But he never says it's impossible, or even unlikely, that it's not out there.

    Where I would part is his statement that it would be egotistical to believe we are alone. Science is about evidence, not moral character; one cannot justify a scientific statement by saying you're a bad person if you don't believe it. Of course someone who is arguing that we are alone (not just that it's possible that we're alone) will have to cough up evidence to justify that.
    I think you're just misconstruing his "it would be egotistical" statement - he's not putting a moral judgement on the premise, he's pointing out that it would be unreasonable to assume that something that has quite clearly occurred once has ONLY occurred once; if anything, it's pointing the finger at those who DO connect the emergence of life on Earth with unscientific/moral judgements, i.e. that Earth is special or that humans are special, etc. etc. The most reasonable assumption for something that has happened in one place is, scientifically speaking, that it could happen in other places as well. That doesn't mean it DID happen (and he didn't say that), but to assume it DIDN'T would be egotistical, because it would imply uniqueness or a special case for Earth.

    As NdGT has pointed out many times, if he's not moving within a strictly scientific sphere, when the choice comes down to ease of understanding or precision, he'll choose ease of understanding every time. Using a word like "egotistical" may seem unscientific, but it conveys the basics of the underlying thought (which is scientific) in a way that's easy to grasp for non-experts - even if it doesn't go into the details properly. You can argue with that, sure, but let's not forget he is first and foremost a science communicator rather than a scientist in most of what he does.
    Last edited by Biomega; 2021-10-17 at 04:49 AM.

  15. #395
    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    Why would they be killed? Who would want them killed? If someone has a supernatural power, if they reveal themselves-- and prove they have actual "real deal" supernatural power-- they'd become internationally famous.
    Fame is not necessarily a good thing.

    I mean, lets be honest here: If, as you say, someone revealed themselves and PROVED they had a "real deal" supernatural power, how exactly do you think the global religious community (and by this I mean the combination of EVERY group of religious bodies on the planet) would react? 99% chance you end up with a fairly even split of largely two results: One group attempts to claim them as a religious prophet/messiah/evidence of god/etc, and another faction declares them spawn of the pit in need of immediate extermination. Literal crusades would be fought over this person. The whole world would go to hell in a hand basket as religion fought over them.

    And that's only "religion". That doesn't even touch on Science. Or government. Or the general crazy/unstable element in society at large. I mean, look at the literal screaming psychotic shit happening right now all across the USA sparked entirely because of Critical Race Theory, where groups of crazies are pitching hysterical fits in schoolboard meetings based entirely around a boogyman idea they barely understand. Now try to imagine what that would translate into if someone revealed that literal superhumans with comic book style mental powers actually exist. It would be fucking Armageddon. Mobs with torches and pitchforks would pale in comparison. Especially once social media got it's claws into it and started amping the conspiracy elements into the stratosphere.
    Last edited by Surfd; 2021-10-17 at 06:39 AM.

  16. #396
    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    Why do you think that? It's quite possible that it doesn't exist, as I've argued strenuously in various places in here.
    All it takes is liquid water for microorganisms to develop.

  17. #397
    Quote Originally Posted by kranur View Post
    All it takes is liquid water for microorganisms to develop.
    This statement isn't supported by evidence.
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    "The bit about hardcore players not always caring about the long term interests of the game is spot on." -- Ghostcrawler
    "Do you want a game with no casuals so about 500 players?"

  18. #398
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    And those people are called "conspiracy theorists". For those same "reasons" I can say that JFK's assassin actually intended to murder the driver, but missed the shot and hit JFK by complete accident.


    I'm sorry, but no. You said, and I quote: governments have killed to protect secrets. And if that is true, that they're willing to kill indiscriminately simply for the risk that they may or may not get their secrets leaked, why aren't whistleblowers not being killed? Just saying "because reasons" is not an answer.
    Distraction, deniability for other things, etc ...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    This statement isn't supported by evidence.
    Hey, something we finally agree on.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    Why do you think that? It's quite possible that it doesn't exist, as I've argued strenuously in various places in here.
    You have argued that the odds could be so low that it won't happen because there could be something we do not know that limits the development.

    You are arguing that because our knowledge is imperfect, we cannot be relatively certain of what the odds could be.
    Last edited by Darththeo; 2021-10-17 at 11:26 AM.
    Peace is a lie. There is only passion. Through passion I gain strength. Through strength I gain power.
    Through power I gain victory. Through victory my chains are broken. The Force shall set me free.
    –The Sith Code

  19. #399
    Quote Originally Posted by Darththeo View Post
    You have argued that the odds could be so low that it won't happen because there could be something we do not know that limits the development.

    You are arguing that because our knowledge is imperfect, we cannot be relatively certain of what the odds could be.
    I'm arguing that we don't know what we don't know. You seem to be willing to jump to conclusions just from wishful thinking and blatant non sequiturs, even if we don't have the evidence.
    "There is a pervasive myth that making content hard will induce players to rise to the occasion. We find the opposite. " -- Ghostcrawler
    "The bit about hardcore players not always caring about the long term interests of the game is spot on." -- Ghostcrawler
    "Do you want a game with no casuals so about 500 players?"

  20. #400
    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    This statement isn't supported by evidence.
    Not yet.

    We're still extremely limited in our observations though.

    But still, to assume that 1 and only 1 planet is capable having life out of quintillions is not realistic.

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