1. #3301
    wow sells gold in their cash shop. no more debate needed. no other mmo would have people defending this.

  2. #3302
    The Insane rhorle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by threadz View Post
    wow sells gold in their cash shop. no more debate needed. no other mmo would have people defending this.
    If the topic was "Does WoW have micro transactions?" then there would be no need for debate. Gold isn't a win and the gold comes from players. So it can't be pay to win if there is no win involved.
    "Man is his own star. His acts are his angels, good or ill, While his fatal shadows walk silently beside him."-Rhyme of the Primeval Paradine AFC 54
    You know a community is bad when moderators lock a thread because "...this isnt the place to talk about it either seeing as it will get trolled..."

  3. #3303
    its pay to play trash game

  4. #3304
    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post
    If the topic was "Does WoW have micro transactions?" then there would be no need for debate. Gold isn't a win and the gold comes from players. So it can't be pay to win if there is no win involved.
    yea you are clueless dont reply

  5. #3305
    The Insane rhorle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by threadz View Post
    yea you are clueless dont reply
    So what win do you get for buying gold? Gold cap can't even be obtained through token purchase.
    "Man is his own star. His acts are his angels, good or ill, While his fatal shadows walk silently beside him."-Rhyme of the Primeval Paradine AFC 54
    You know a community is bad when moderators lock a thread because "...this isnt the place to talk about it either seeing as it will get trolled..."

  6. #3306
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    Quote Originally Posted by Relapses View Post
    I'm sorry I don't treat intellectually sound takes like, "greedy Blizzard just wants to intentionally ruin their game by making it P2W" with the respect I'm sure you believe they deserve.
    And around we go again. Being disingenuous to suit your worldview. You're ultimately contributing just as little as I am.
    Thanks for the ad-hominem; it supports your inability to support your argument.

  7. #3307
    Quote Originally Posted by Doctor Wheelchair Casino View Post
    And around we go again. Being disingenuous to suit your worldview. You're ultimately contributing just as little as I am.
    Do you even know what disingenuous means? Sarcastic, yes, but nothing I said was disingenuous.

  8. #3308
    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post
    Schrodinger's sport? It is both a sport and not a sport at the same time.
    What does it matter what it is in terms of what I want it to be? Do you only play games that are already perfect?

    Of course WoW is terrible in terms of this credit card->faster achievements things; it can improve.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gehco View Post
    But on this notion, almost all games in a way, permit bribing?
    Not us much as this sometimes. Or they may be worse like Fortnite that pretends to be "free" and almost nothing is playable at that state.

    In any case I don't care about that; I just want a better game; I'd play mobile games that want payments every 5mins if I didn't.

  9. #3309
    Quote Originally Posted by matheney2k View Post
    Buy to play.
    Pay to play.
    Pay to win.

    Damn no wonder Blizz keeps on rocking those quarterly reports when half its player base, seemingly, has quit.
    Tell them that Blizzard is dead and WoW died with him...

  10. #3310
    Quote Originally Posted by epigramx View Post
    Of course WoW is terrible in terms of this credit card->faster achievements things; it can improve.
    How would you improve it?

  11. #3311
    Mechagnome Indigenously Abled's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Relapses View Post
    Do you even know what disingenuous means? Sarcastic, yes, but nothing I said was disingenuous.
    The word applies. Thanks for validating my signature though.. You're intentionally misrepresenting the tone and validity of arguments you've intentionally hand-waved on this forum. That's disingenuous. It's funny, you're so put off by cynicism, but employ it reciprocally in your distaste for contrary opinions.

    Unless you're just trolling, in which case kudos, you've employed the fallacy-spewing pseudo-intellectual archetype very effectively.
    Thanks for the ad-hominem; it supports your inability to support your argument.

  12. #3312
    Quote Originally Posted by Relapses View Post
    How would you improve it?
    Delete it; the shop should only sell cosmetic items and generally non-gameplay-power items.

    You act as if you want a game that only rich children can play; that is terrible and elitist in a very bad sense.

    It's as if you go to watch Tennis and in the middle of the game whoever has 1 million can win.

  13. #3313
    The Insane rhorle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by epigramx View Post
    What does it matter what it is in terms of what I want it to be? Do you only play games that are already perfect? Of course WoW is terrible in terms of this credit card->faster achievements things; it can improve.
    Because what things are matters. You can't call a hamburger a fork and be taken seriously. A game being perfect is not part of this discussion. Stop moving the goal posts.

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    Quote Originally Posted by epigramx View Post
    Delete it; the shop should only sell cosmetic items and generally non-gameplay-power items.
    So how is that you are accepting of cosmetics but buying achievements is pay to win? An achievement is a cosmetic. The token providing gold does not make WoW a game only rich people can play. Someone still has to carry those rich people which means at the very least there is room for skilled players.
    "Man is his own star. His acts are his angels, good or ill, While his fatal shadows walk silently beside him."-Rhyme of the Primeval Paradine AFC 54
    You know a community is bad when moderators lock a thread because "...this isnt the place to talk about it either seeing as it will get trolled..."

  14. #3314
    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post
    Because what things are matters. You can't call a hamburger a fork and be taken seriously. A game being perfect is not part of this discussion. Stop moving the goal posts.
    I don't even know to what kind of strawman you are talking to anymore; I just know it's a strawman since I have no clue what you are even talking about anymore.

    I told you I want the game to adhere to the higher ideals of sports in terms of fairness. You responded by being sarcastic as if I implied it is already a perfect sport.

  15. #3315
    Quote Originally Posted by Doctor Wheelchair Casino View Post
    The word applies. Thanks for validating my signature though.. You're intentionally misrepresenting the tone and validity of arguments you've intentionally hand-waved on this forum. That's disingenuous. It's funny, you're so put off by cynicism, but employ it reciprocally in your distaste for contrary opinions.

    Unless you're just trolling, in which case kudos, you've employed the fallacy-spewing pseudo-intellectual archetype very effectively.
    If you think I'm hand waving arguments you're not reading my posts in this thread. So no, your use of the word disingenuous was not correct. And, if we're being honest here, kind of a little bit disingenuous. :-)

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    Quote Originally Posted by epigramx View Post
    Delete it; the shop should only sell cosmetic items and generally non-gameplay-power items.

    You act as if you want a game that only rich children can play; that is terrible and elitist in a very bad sense.

    It's as if you go to watch Tennis and in the middle of the game whoever has 1 million can win.
    Does deleting the WoW token actually remove boosting though? People boosted before the token, do you think they'll suddenly stop boosting afterward?

  16. #3316
    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post
    So how is that you are accepting of cosmetics but buying achievements is pay to win? An achievement is a cosmetic. The token providing gold does not make WoW a game only rich people can play. Someone still has to carry those rich people which means at the very least there is room for skilled players.
    Oh I see; you have no clue how humans value other humans at a basic level. Nobody gives a crap if you are a rich child that used mommy's money to get a fancy dress; they do care if you worked hard and had the skill to be the best at basketball. Using a credit card to fool others you are better at basketball is terrible (unless a big label is put on your head that said "I used mommy's money to pretend to be better at basketball" but that's not always clear in this game).

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    Quote Originally Posted by Relapses View Post
    Does deleting the WoW token actually remove boosting though? People boosted before the token, do you think they'll suddenly stop boosting afterward?
    And you can pay someone to play Pac-Man for you in 1983. This isn't about perfection, it's about the devs themselves making it easy and allowed by the TOS itself; in fact the shop itself sells all activision-blizzard products so the supply has skyrocketted so it's extremely easier to "pay to win" now since the prices are lower now and the market more available.
    Last edited by epigramx; 2021-10-19 at 04:39 AM.

  17. #3317
    Quote Originally Posted by epigramx View Post
    And you can pay someone to play Pac-Man for you in 1983. This isn't about perfection, it's about the dev themselves making it easy and allowed by the TOS itself; in fact the shop itself sells all activision-blizzard products so the supply has skyrocketted so it's extremely easier to "pay to win" now since the prices are cheaper that way.
    Except they aren't making it easy because using the token for boosts isn't its intended purpose nor is it the major reason people buy it. RMT boosting is currently less expensive than buying tokens. On top of being more affordable, it's also less time consuming. Removing the token changes nothing and if anything would just make RMT boosting even more prevalent.

  18. #3318
    Quote Originally Posted by Relapses View Post
    RMT boosting is currently less expensive than buying tokens. On top of being more affordable, it's also less time consuming.
    It's also illegal and can theoretically land you in prison (especially if you are the seller committing tax fraud).
    I find it fantastic how some of you don't grasp the concept that the devs made it easy by being allowed.
    Also did you have a crystal ball to know exactly how boosting sources its gold?

  19. #3319
    Delete the token, adjust busted cost of end game raiding and other bloated facets of the economy

    You'll never eliminate boosting, but you can reduce it and in doing so it only improves the game for anyone not trying to make money off of it.

    Except they aren't making it easy because using the token for boosts isn't its intended purpose nor is it the major reason people buy it. RMT boosting is currently less expensive than buying tokens. On top of being more affordable, it's also less time consuming. Removing the token changes nothing and if anything would just make RMT boosting even more prevalent.
    RMT boosting isn't sanctioned in game and can be highly dangerous, this shouldn't need to be explained.

  20. #3320
    Quote Originally Posted by epigramx View Post
    It's also illegal and can theoretically land you in prison (especially if you are the seller committing tax fraud).
    lol, yeah man. Because buying and selling gold prior to the token was routinely landing people in jail since it was "illegal."

    Quote Originally Posted by epigramx View Post
    I find it fantastic how some of you don't grasp the concept that the devs made it easy by being allowed.
    I've said repeatedly that the token has likely introduced more visibility on boosting but I'd say that it also has a lot to do with the game simply having a lot more content that you can boost now than you could prior to the token existing.

    Quote Originally Posted by epigramx View Post
    Also do you have crystal ball to know exactly how boosting sources its gold?
    I don't know man, a part of me thinks that Blizzard allowing you to farm infinite gold for two entire expansions might have had something to do with it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Merin View Post
    RMT boosting isn't sanctioned in game and can be highly dangerous, this shouldn't need to be explained.
    It's only dangerous if you're letting them pilot your character and at this point with the amount of gold that RMT boosting communities have there's almost no benefit for these companies to hijack an account. They're only interested in money.

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