Is WoW Pay 2 Win?

[epigramx]

lol, yeah man. Because buying and selling gold prior to the token was routinely landing people in jail since it was "illegal."

Prison; not jail. Yes: you will go to prison in many Western countries if you are a seller committing massive tax fraud. Having sweatshops from Asia doing it does not mean it's not easier if it's sanctioned by the devs and at the very least you can get a permanent ban in the game if you are the buyer which is something some people might find very important to avoid especially if their account is 10+ years old and they don't want to risk it just to get 100k from a shady dealer.

[Relapses]

Prison; not jail. Yes: you will go to prison in many Western countries if you are a seller committing massive tax fraud. Having sweatshops from Asia doing it does not mean it's not easier if it's sanctioned by the devs and at the very least you can get a permanent ban in the game if you are the buyer which is something some people might find very important to avoid especially if their account is 10+ years old and they don't want to risk it just to get 100k from a shady dealer.

Your outlook on the world is adorably naive.

[Subzu]

Game is pay to win.

You buy items with money.

Your mental gymnastics is just cope.

Notice how's there's no BOE epics from trash in TBC raids, I wonder why

[Nalam the Venom]

yea this is also BS, fun is subjective, part of an rpg is player progression. You say you dont enjoy the game unless you have good gear, i enjoy comming from shit gear, playing well, and getting good gear as a result. I dont know how people feel like they are any good when they just skip to the best gear especially when they know it will become obsolete soon.

You can't buy full BiS.

So you buy (for gold) weekly +15 carry until you can comfortably do it on your own.

Usually a 4-6 runs per season.

That it ”Will be obsolete soon” is just another reason to want it faster or instantly, So you can enjoy the high damage and good performance before Blizz decides to invalidate and stomp on your progression and return you back to 0

I dont know how people feel like they are any good

That is what the dps meter is there for.

Also the fact that people get so angry over it.

Why the outrage over people buying gear that ”Will be obsolete soon any way”

- - - Updated - - -

Notice how's there's no BOE epics from trash in TBC raids, I wonder why

The P2W BoE gear is from professions in TBC.

[Lochton]

Delete it; the shop should only sell cosmetic items and generally non-gameplay-power items.

You act as if you want a game that only rich children can play; that is terrible and elitist in a very bad sense.

It's as if you go to watch Tennis and in the middle of the game whoever has 1 million can win.

But we've seen in this game that Pay2Win doesn't always mean the same, and so, anything on a store for in-game items could be P2W.

If it is the token making it P2W, then you want all tradeable TCG cards deleted too?

- - - Updated - - -

It's also illegal and can theoretically land you in prison (especially if you are the seller committing tax fraud).
I find it fantastic how some of you don't grasp the concept that the devs made it easy by being allowed.
Also did you have a crystal ball to know exactly how boosting sources its gold?

But... Massive RMT trades have been proven before the token to also deal with their taxes, hence why Blizzard can't do much more than ban them. Taxes are simple when there is a huge market, without the token, the market would be back, and more third-party sellers would be too.

[rhorle]

I told you I want the game to adhere to the higher ideals of sports in terms of fairness. You responded by being sarcastic as if I implied it is already a perfect sport.

No, I replied that WoW is not a sport. I made no mention of the quality and merely corrected your wrong statement.

- - - Updated - - -

Oh I see; you have no clue how humans value other humans at a basic level. Nobody gives a crap if you are a rich child that used mommy's money to get a fancy dress; they do care if you worked hard and had the skill to be the best at basketball. Using a credit card to fool others you are better at basketball is terrible (unless a big label is put on your head that said "I used mommy's money to pretend to be better at basketball" but that's not always clear in this game).

So if no one cares why is your entire basis for it being bad based on caring what a "rich" person does? You keep having to demean and vilify that person as a child for a reason. WoW isn't basketball. No one cares how you did what you did in the game but it is increasingly clear this is all born out of jealousy or envy of others.

[TBCCLOL]

People full copium trying to negate that WoW Tokens enable Pay2Win is the funniest thing ever.

[RobertoCarlos]

If you're trying to argue WoW is not pay to win you need to seriously look at the man in the mirror as MJ would say.

[TBCCLOL]

Since a lot of people here are too dense and emotionally attached to WoW let me explain ELY5

Farming Gold -> Buy Sylvanas Mythic -> Getting Boosted

Buying Gold -> Buy Sylvanas Mythic -> Getting Boosted <-- This is also P2W because you spent real money

"bbbbut p2win defin-" no, no and no. What are you confusing due to ignorance is that you think P2W must be the usual asian mobile rpg with UNIQUE UNOBTAINABLE items that gives you insane power, which is a p2w but isnt the p2w.

[Lochton]

People full copium trying to negate that WoW Tokens enable Pay2Win is the funniest thing ever.

Naw, I can give way to call the token P2W if people acknowledge that it has been such since October 2006 then. I mean, the token is not an advantage sold by Blizzard but we're now so deep in the P2W argument that we're now arguing steps within the ToS limits.

[TBCCLOL]

Since a lot of people here are too dense and emotionally attached to WoW let me explain ELY5

Farming Gold -> Buy Sylvanas Mythic -> Getting Boosted

Buying Gold -> Buy Sylvanas Mythic -> Getting Boosted <-- This is also P2W because you spent real money

"bbbbut p2win defin-" no, no and no.
What are you confusing due to ignorance is that you think P2W must be the usual asian mobile rpg crap with UNIQUE UNOBTAINABLE items that gives you insane power, which is a p2w but isnt the p2w.

---------------

Meanwhile there are plenty of games for mobile on Play Store like : Brave Frontier, Raid Legends, AnyGameWithSummons, Age of Conquest and any Age of Empires Clone for mobile.

That are also pay2win because EVERY GAME that lets you buy currency by giving money to the owner of the game, like tokens, is pay2win - surely you can do any achiv/feat by your own in WoW but you can also buy it with tokens.

The RPG one like Genshin Impact have the currency to summon units, and some units are clearly better than others and have summon banners with 0.001% so people spend money to get the best units >>>> this is pay2win

The AoE one have the usual timegating mechanic " Your building will be done in 20 minutes or use 10 gems / boost to complete istant " so you skip time gating stuff to get stronger faster than AVG players >>>>> this is pay2win

Hearthstone is pay2win, surely you can get rank 1 with any decks ( no ) but having the best cards is always nice, isn't it? Ye you can craft the cards if you farm enough but you can also swipe the card get tons of packs and gets the bis cards asap and stomp other players with money >>>>> this is pay2win


Diablo3 was pay2win with the early AH

Diablo2 isn't pay2win but surely you can buy stuff on g2g but since isnt giving money to blizzard but to another play that sell the rune ( even if it is illegal ) isn't pay2win, is just super shady and against tos.

- - - Updated - - -

Naw, I can give way to call the token P2W if people acknowledge that it has been such since October 2006 then. I mean, the token is not an advantage sold by Blizzard but we're now so deep in the P2W argument that we're now arguing steps within the ToS limits.

if people are so naive to think this, it is useless to keep explaining

[Lochton]

if people are so naive to think this, it is useless to keep explaining

Well, the advantage is not that you buy game-time, is it?

Then again, if you are so bent in the token being P2W, do you agree that the token is not the only problem, and that the P2W part has been part of the problem since October 2006?

[TBCCLOL]

---------





Literally the same pic.


You spend 17/19 bucks for the Gems/Gold which can be used to purchase Summon Units/Gear/Whatever with Gems or Buy M+15 carries with loot traded or mythic raiding runs with gold.


or you can farm slowly gems/gold and still buy stuff which in the wow case is a normal boost that shouldn't not be confused with the buying a.hoost with tokens which is a pay2win boost.

[Lochton]

---------





Literally the same pic.


You spend 17/19 bucks for the Gems/Gold which can be used to purchase Summon Units/Gear/Whatever with Gems or Buy M+15 carries with loot traded or mythic raiding runs with gold.


or you can farm slowly

Except that one is tradeable game-time with another player.

The other is a currency specifically for purchasing advantages from the developer.

[Raelbo]

For me it's very clear that paying Blizzard to get an achievement with the help of a credit card is terrible;

That's a straight up strawman though. You don't pay Blizzard to get an achievement with the help of a credit card. You pay Blizzard to facilitate an exchange of money for gold with another player. Then other players help you to get achievements/gear etc in exchange for gold.

It's an important distinction because WoW is an MMO game and players helping other players to achieve certain outcomes/objectives is an integral part of the game. And while many people might not like the fact that it happens for money, that doesn't mean it's actually p2w.

I do not care if you call it P2W or "not paying to win because you cheated!" because it's still terrible to my view; hence that's the most objective and important part for me (that it is terrible) and it has very low value if I called it P2W or not because the result (that matters) is exactly the same: I want it gone from the game.

My take on this is let other players do what other players want to do when it comes to interacting with other players, as long as it is consensual, not abusive and does not involve cheating. And no, getting another player to help you defeat a raid boss isn't cheating, even if it is done in exchange for money.

Is it fair? Well that is an entirely different question (and debate). I would say no it's not fair, but it is simply a fact of life. People are not always fair to each other, and it is unreasonable to expect us to be so in everything. If I want to give my gold to Timmy for any reason whatsoever, that is my prerogative. It could be because Timmy is my friend. It could be because Timmy did me a favour. It could be because I just felt generous and Timmy was the lucky beneficiary. Or it could be because he gave me a token worth a month of game time. The reason is entirely irrelevant. Paul might feel it is unfair. He might even be right. But it's irrelevant, because that interaction is between me and Timmy and none of Paul's business.

This is not the fault of the game. Nor is it the responsibility of the game to ensure that players are fair to each other - only that they don't cheat. And while you're perfectly entitled to rail against such behaviour, I would argue that it is futile and in the end you're just stressing yourself out needlessly. The best you can really hope for is that you can avoid it, and ignore what others are doing.

[TBCCLOL]

Well, the advantage is not that you buy game-time, is it?

Then again, if you are so bent in the token being P2W, do you agree that the token is not the only problem, and that the P2W part has been part of the problem since October 2006?

Because you think Blizzard is so demented to put out a pure pay2win stuff?

The token as game time was done during WoD with the precise intent to make people using the garrison as gold maker to buy tokens, so more people online / MAU and better financial results to share with shareholders.

If they didn't want to push the pay2win back then why making the token cost 20 bucks also? Wasn't better just make the gold to time game token?

Why make money to gold if the p2w wasn't a possible gain for them?

[Lochton]

Because you think Blizzard is so demented to put out a pure pay2win stuff?

The token as game time was done during WoD with the precise intent to make people using the garrison as gold maker to buy tokens, so more people online / MAU and better financial results to share with shareholders.

If they didn't want to push the pay2win back then why making the token cost 20 bucks also? Wasn't better just make the gold to time game token?

Why make money to gold if the p2w wasn't a possible gain for them?

The token was to combat two main problems in WoW, ToS breaking game-time sales as well as ToS breaking gold sales, and a side-effect is that it also combats ToS breaking boosting sales. As I've stated before, a necessary evil. The cost of 20 dollars to me, is the fee of you getting a safe and secure transfer and trade, unlike with a third-party seller who also holds the possibility of stealing your information, account, scamming you, or withdrawing more than the agreement is. I also believe that the higher price than the average game-time would be to discourage over-purchasing it, as it is quite pricy but we know that we have thousands of players who uses the token for game-time, game-products (turning into currency), or indeed, gold.

As well, I know that the token was added in WoD but as the people arguing that the token is P2W but with more steps, so would the BoE TCG items be as well. So, WoW has by yours, and others, been P2W since October 2006, when the TCG items went on the market.

[TBCCLOL]

Except that one is tradeable game-time with another player.

The other is a currency specifically for purchasing advantages from the developer.

No it isn't jesus the ignorance.

The token isn't an equivalent exchange because in 1 way or the other blizzard gain money.

If you do gold to money you get 13 battle net money meanwhile the dude that buys the gold with the token has spent 20 bucks so 7 bucks are the gain for Blizzard.

The money you get is to buys stuff but you haven't farmed that gold, you bought from Blizzard skipping the normal playing of the game and it is an advantage.


In BFA people spent months to farm 5 milions for the Bronto meanwhile other just swiped the credit card getting the advantage asap that is pay2win


Can you understand? Stop defending the undefendable jfc

- - - Updated - - -

The token was to combat two main problems in WoW, ToS breaking game-time sales as well as ToS breaking gold sales, and a side-effect is that it also combats ToS breaking boosting sales. As I've stated before, a necessary evil. The cost of 20 dollars to me, is the fee of you getting a safe and secure transfer and trade, unlike with a third-party seller who also holds the possibility of stealing your information, account, scamming you, or withdrawing more than the agreement is. I also believe that the higher price than the average game-time would be to discourage over-purchasing it, as it is quite pricy but we know that we have thousands of players who uses the token for game-time, game-products (turning into currency), or indeed, gold.

As well, I know that the token was added in WoD but as the people arguing that the token is P2W but with more steps, so would the BoE TCG items be as well. So, WoW has by yours, and others, been P2W since October 2006, when the TCG items went on the market.

Ah lol you are one of those who believe the fairy tale " to combat gold seller " ??? Go on g2g and tell me how it worked.


Blizzard wanted to be the gold seller not to beat gold seller.

[Raelbo]

Since a lot of people here are too dense and emotionally attached to WoW let me explain ELY5

No we're not dense. We understood you perfectly the first time. Your reasoning is simply faulty.

PS: Your choice to call people dense just reflects poorly on you.

Farming Gold -> Buy Sylvanas Mythic -> Getting Boosted

Buying Gold -> Buy Sylvanas Mythic -> Getting Boosted <-- This is also P2W because you spent real money

Paying other players to help you is not p2w. Period.

"bbbbut p2win defin-" no, no and no. What are you confusing due to ignorance is that you think P2W must be the usual asian mobile rpg with UNIQUE UNOBTAINABLE items that gives you insane power, which is a p2w but isnt the p2w.

Claiming other people are ignorant while demonstrating one's own ignorance.....

You need to get the definition of p2w correct. Otherwise you have no argument. Claiming that the token is p2w because of your own special snowflake definition carefully crafted to push your anti-wow agenda does not cut it. p2w has a reasonably consistent definition that is accepted within gaming circles. And while some aspects of the definition may be up for debate, certain ones are not:

1) p2w has to offer an advantage that is not reasonably attainable in-game without spending money
2) p2w involves the game giving an advantage to players

Inter-player transactions therefore, pretty much by definition, fall outside of the the purview of p2w. In your example above, what makes it not p2w is the fact that you are buying gold from other players. And if you still can't get that, then maybe you need to explain why.

[TBCCLOL]

Is like if Gov to beat drug dealer started selling cocaine legally.

Is still bad.