Is WoW Pay 2 Win?

[Lochton]

No it isn't jesus the ignorance.

The token isn't an equivalent exchange because in 1 way or the other blizzard gain money.

If you do gold to money you get 13 battle net money meanwhile the dude that buys the gold with the token has spent 20 bucks so 7 bucks are the gain for Blizzard.

The money you get is to buys stuff but you haven't farmed that gold, you bought from Blizzard skipping the normal playing of the game and it is an advantage.


In BFA people spent months to farm 5 milions for the Bronto meanwhile other just swiped the credit card getting the advantage asap that is pay2win


Can you understand? Stop defending the undefendable jfc

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Ah lol you are one of those who believe the fairy tale " to combat gold seller " ??? Go on g2g and tell me how it worked.


Blizzard wanted to be the gold seller not to beat gold seller.

I take it you have not seen the problem of RMT trades before the token? The token did not remove it but it DID combat it and pushed it back to a lower amount. RMT trades can never die as long as there is actual trading in the game. But I can see your actual issue is generally, that a company makes an income of any doing? As you want "equivalent exchange" but even if the token was only 13 dollars, then Blizzard would still earn money in net gain. So, the problem is not only the token.

[TBCCLOL]

No we're not dense. We understood you perfectly the first time. Your reasoning is simply faulty.

PS: Your choice to call people dense just reflects poorly on you.



Paying other players to help you is not p2w. Period.



Claiming other people are ignorant while demonstrating one's own ignorance.....

You need to get the definition of p2w correct. Otherwise you have no argument. Claiming that the token is p2w because of your own special snowflake definition carefully crafted to push your anti-wow agenda does not cut it. p2w has a reasonably consistent definition that is accepted within gaming circles. And while some aspects of the definition may be up for debate, certain ones are not:

1) p2w has to offer an advantage that is not reasonably attainable in-game without spending money
2) p2w involves the game giving an advantage to players

Inter-player transactions therefore, pretty much by definition, fall outside of the the purview of p2w. In your example above, what makes it not p2w is the fact that you are buying gold from other players. And if you still can't get that, then maybe you need to explain why.

No you are dense, you are the only one still mirror climbing, more than 5 people explained you where you were wrong and still you are going full copium

The silver lining is that you are just the only one thinkin otherwise so it isn't a big problem.

[crusadernero]

No we're not dense. We understood you perfectly the first time. Your reasoning is simply faulty.

PS: Your choice to call people dense just reflects poorly on you.



Paying other players to help you is not p2w. Period.



Claiming other people are ignorant while demonstrating one's own ignorance.....

You need to get the definition of p2w correct. Otherwise you have no argument. Claiming that the token is p2w because of your own special snowflake definition carefully crafted to push your anti-wow agenda does not cut it. p2w has a reasonably consistent definition that is accepted within gaming circles. And while some aspects of the definition may be up for debate, certain ones are not:

1) p2w has to offer an advantage that is not reasonably attainable in-game without spending money
2) p2w involves the game giving an advantage to players

Inter-player transactions therefore, pretty much by definition, fall outside of the the purview of p2w. In your example above, what makes it not p2w is the fact that you are buying gold from other players. And if you still can't get that, then maybe you need to explain why.

You dont need to be anti-Blizzard or anti-wow to dislike stuff like the wow token, or any of the other obvious issues with the game.

You have said about 1 million times that theres a "huge" difference in the fact that the token is a player driven concept in wow, so you can just leave that argument and move on. You have went on page after page with the same arguments for a couple of weeks now, its like you are more trying to convince yourself than any othere here.

Fact is, the wow token excists and benefits Blizzard. Even though players sell it, it really doesnt matter. The effect is the same. When buying the token a players gets an advantage ingame. Prices for various stuff also spikes due to this token, so buying token(s) each time a new patch comes out gives an advantage. Its either that or play alot to farm materials to sell on AH, in competition with bots that Blizzard cant give a shit to solve.

You have also kept on and on about 150k gold is "not alot", when it obviously is. Most players dont give a shit about farming gold all day everyday. Just like most people dont jump into mythic raiding, they just dont give a shit. People often enough dont commit to playing more or becoming better in farming gold or clear content at higher difficulty. They either just quit or dont give a shit about it and never does it.

If most players actually stepped up for high m+ keys & mythic raiding, we would see ALOT of people in that section of the game. But we dont. A very select few give a shit about that in wow, just like very few give a shit farming lots and lots of gold.

BUT - Blizzard hides great rewards in high m+ & raids. How can a player obtain this without getting better at the game or commit hours to it? The token. A service provided by Blizzard, that rewards very few in wow & Blizzard.

You might have a very specific and tiny definition of p2w, but as this thread shows its clearly not that straightforward, or else this thread would be dead long ago. Big Brain Blizzard knows selling player power outright(except lvl boost) would cause massive outrage. So they just blurr it a little bit, while it does the very same thing.

As most things, stuff evolves. What was and wasnt p2w years ago, might have changed today.

[Raelbo]

No it isn't jesus the ignorance.

Again, you are calling people ignorant while yourself demonstrating ignorance. Of course they're different.

The token isn't an equivalent exchange because in 1 way or the other blizzard gain money. If you do gold to money you get 13 battle net money meanwhile the dude that buys the gold with the token has spent 20 bucks so 7 bucks are the gain for Blizzard.

Yes Blizzard gain money. They take a cut for facilitating a trade. But they aren't supplying the gold.

When you sell a token you get an amount of gold (eg 350K). When another buys that token, they spend that same amount of gold (eg 350K). Blizzard aren't giving you 35% of the gold you buy.

The money you get is to buys stuff but you haven't farmed that gold, you bought from Blizzard skipping the normal playing of the game and it is an advantage.

Nope, you are factually incorrect on at least two counts.

1) You buy the gold from other players not Blizzard
2) You are not skipping anything. You are getting other players to help you do it.

In BFA people spent months to farm 5 milions for the Bronto meanwhile other just swiped the credit card getting the advantage asap that is pay2win

I can certainly understand how it might look this to someone who has not applied enough critical thinking to the question.

But no, it is not p2w on 2 counts:
1) The gold acquired by token sellers was still earned in-game by other players, who then of their own free will, elected to give that gold to the players wanting to buy those brutosaurs
2) The vast majority of brutosaurs in existence were bought by players who made their money in-game without resorting to tokens. So tokens were never necessary to buy the thing.

Can you understand? Stop defending the undefendable jfc

On the contrary, it is you who seems to have this problem. Stop assuming it's undefendable, pay attention to the arguments, and enlighten yourself.

Ah lol you are one of those who believe the fairy tale " to combat gold seller " ??? Go on g2g and tell me how it worked.

Spoken like a true conspiracy theorist.

And yes, it worked exceptionally well. So well, in fact, that greedy Blizzard decided to reduce the number of staff dedicated to combating goldseller activities (a stance I personally am not happy with)

Blizzard wanted to be the gold seller not to beat gold seller.

I think it's fair to say that Blizzard saw this idea (not theirs by the way, the got it from EVE Online) and saw multiple benefits. I am not afraid to openly acknowledge that Blizzard saw a way to shamelessly make more money. That doesn't mean the token isn't an effective counter to gold sellers.

[Lochton]

I think it's fair to say that Blizzard saw this idea (not theirs by the way, the got it from EVE Online) and saw multiple benefits. I am not afraid to openly acknowledge that Blizzard saw a way to shamelessly make more money. That doesn't mean the token isn't an effective counter to gold sellers.

Hence I tag it as a necessary evil.

[TBCCLOL]

I take it you have not seen the problem of RMT trades before the token? The token did not remove it but it DID combat it and pushed it back to a lower amount. RMT trades can never die as long as there is actual trading in the game. But I can see your actual issue is generally, that a company makes an income of any doing? As you want "equivalent exchange" but even if the token was only 13 dollars, then Blizzard would still earn money in net gain. So, the problem is not only the token.

As I said, I sell boost on Retail atm, was in Gallywix and I wintraded in TBC back then.

The RMT pre token era were 90% PvP carries with the exception in MoP of the CM, the gold selling always existed but there wasn't a true mechanics like now

Buy Gold > Get Carried > Get Loot

With the Token, the boosting scenario got stronger, and with Archimonde HC AOTC Mount the trick was done, people were payin 50k for the carry and thus the token kept pumping over and over and with the CM too.

Surely people don't buy gold from RMT sites on retail like pre token, but since bots are rampart like uterine cancer in these days the retail gold selling market is still florid.
On the otherside Classic and TBCC gold selling is pumping and the GDKP runs meta makes goldselling relevant.

Plus people flip Retail gold for TBCC gold and thus making Blizzard aware that people buy Retail Tokens to exchange gold on retail for gold on TBC so giving them even more money, and making the Retail Token something that influence even TBCC.

I have no problem beside people like you and copium-man thinking that Tokens aren't Pay2Win which is laughable.


I and others, have explained more than once why, but if you don't wanna understand is not my problem, I even brought different type of P2W to fill your ignorance regarding the "exact" definition of P2W


TL;Dr

Token is p2w
Blizzard introduced the Token to replace goldsellers and make money
Co-president is doing selling runs


Stop inahle copium

[Raelbo]

You dont need to be anti-Blizzard or anti-wow to dislike stuff like the wow token, or any of the other obvious issues with the game.

By the same vein, you don't need to be a Blizzard shill to recognise that the token isn't p2w (as was outright stated by the person I was replying to).

You have said about 1 million times that theres a "huge" difference in the fact that the token is a player driven concept in wow, so you can just leave that argument and move on. You have went on page after page with the same arguments for a couple of weeks now, its like you are more trying to convince yourself than any othere here.

The arguments I am countering aren't changing either - if you can even call them arguments - most are just unsubstantiated claims. So if you want to lecture me about repeating myself, how about levelling equal criticism at my opponents - yourself included.

Also, a lot of my responses are to people who probably won't look back even 1 page to see what has already been said, so what I say does bear repeating.

Fact is, the wow token excists and benefits Blizzard. Even though players sell it, it really doesnt matter. The effect is the same. When buying the token a players gets an advantage ingame.

Agreed, mostly. The effect isn't entirely the same, but it is similar enough for the specific individual that I accept where you're coming from.

Prices for various stuff also spikes due to this token, so buying token(s) each time a new patch comes out gives an advantage.

I have never observed this to be true. I've been playing this game a long time and I have seen no discernable impact on AH pricing. Sure, I have read a few opinion pieces here and there supporting arguments both for against what you're saying, but never a proper study that would constitute actual proof either way. If you can quote a source that has credible info on this, I would be very interested to see it.

You have also kept on and on about 150k gold is "not alot", when it obviously is.

I have qualified that statement with a "why". Or have you ignored that?

Most players dont give a shit about farming gold all day everyday. Just like most people dont jump into mythic raiding, they just dont give a shit. People often enough dont commit to playing more or becoming better in farming gold or clear content at higher difficulty. They either just quit or dont give a shit about it and never does it.

If most players actually stepped up for high m+ keys & mythic raiding, we would see ALOT of people in that section of the game. But we dont. A very select few give a shit about that in wow, just like very few give a shit farming lots and lots of gold.

BUT - Blizzard hides great rewards in high m+ & raids. How can a player obtain this without getting better at the game or commit hours to it? The token. A service provided by Blizzard, that rewards very few in wow & Blizzard.

You do know that people who use tokens to buy boosts are a tiny minority right?

You might have a very specific and tiny definition of p2w, but as this thread shows its clearly not that straightforward, or else this thread would be dead long ago.

No. My definition is based on actually doing my homework and investigating what it means. The problem here is that most people couldn't be bothered. It is either too difficult to do so, or it doesn't suit their agenda, or they're just plain stupid/ignorant/incompetent. I don't care what the reason is, but it is a noticeable phenomenon, hardly unique to this forum (I mean just look at the ridiculous "debate" going on right now about Covid vaccines)

Big Brain Blizzard knows selling player power outright(except lvl boost) would cause massive outrage. So they just blurr it a little bit, while it does the very same thing.

No. They found a solution was not the same thing.

As most things, stuff evolves. What was and wasnt p2w years ago, might have changed today.

Nah. It's just that a lot of people like to feel that validating their own personal opinion is more important than actually being knowledgeable, so they elect to rather try and change an existing definition than accept it as is, all the while ignoring the logical effect this has on their already shaky argument. lol

[Dhrizzle]

No you are dense, you are the only one still mirror climbing, more than 5 people explained you where you were wrong and still you are going full copium

The silver lining is that you are just the only one thinkin otherwise so it isn't a big problem.

Why do you have to stretch and distort the definition of pay-2-win to cope with the fact you don't like WoW any more? It's perfectly valid to say you don't like the token or any of the other changes that have come in over the years without saying WoW is something it isn't.

[crusadernero]

By the same vein, you don't need to be a Blizzard shill to recognise that the token isn't p2w (as was outright stated by the person I was replying to).




No. They found a solution was not the same thing.

But they didnt find a solution. RMT, gold for boosts/carries & bots are as rampant as ever. If anything, its become worse. So no, Blizzard didnt solve anything with the token. They just saw a way to increase revenue without doing anything.

[Lochton]

As I said, I sell boost on Retail atm, was in Gallywix and I wintraded in TBC back then.

So, you were part of the current known or differently earlier known Gallywix? So, either you were part of the RMT boosting problem or not?

The RMT pre token era were 90% PvP carries with the exception in MoP of the CM, the gold selling always existed but there wasn't a true mechanics like now

True, there were no safe mechanics like now, back then you had thousands of trades going on for RMT, and RMT spam at the same amount as the boosting spam is now, some servers even worse, as well as flooded areas where you could see obvious gold trade characters waiting for pickup.

Buy Gold > Get Carried > Get Loot

Indeed, how the old system is now but to cope with your argument, you also add the discussion of more steps to cover the fact that Blizzard isn't selling the gold.

With the Token, the boosting scenario got stronger, and with Archimonde HC AOTC Mount the trick was done, people were payin 50k for the carry and thus the token kept pumping over and over and with the CM too.

The token has been thriving, that is correct, but even as the token flourished, so did RMT until they couldn't keep up and fell behind into the backstage of it all - they are still there.

Surely people don't buy gold from RMT sites on retail like pre token, but since bots are rampart like uterine cancer in these days the retail gold selling market is still florid.
On the otherside Classic and TBCC gold selling is pumping and the GDKP runs meta makes goldselling relevant.

Bots from the servers I see are not as bad as they used to be but again, an issue we cannot get rid of that easily it seems.

Plus people flip Retail gold for TBCC gold and thus making Blizzard aware that people buy Retail Tokens to exchange gold on retail for gold on TBC so giving them even more money, and making the Retail Token something that influence even TBCC.

If people couldn't flip gold from progression/main servers to Classic servers, then it would just be another realm for bigger RMT, which the classic servers already house as well.

I have no problem beside people like you and copium-man thinking that Tokens aren't Pay2Win which is laughable.

If you weren't so, "dense" as you enjoyed telling people, then you would notice that my point is now to have people like you understand that the token wasn't the only problem then and that your raging subject has been since 2006 without breaking ToS. Then again, you are so thrilled to use the copium buzzword in your arguments to maybe not notice it.

I and others, have explained more than once why, but if you don't wanna understand is not my problem, I even brought different type of P2W to fill your ignorance regarding the "exact" definition of P2W

The true and classic explanation of P2W used to be the purchase of advantage from the developers, people like you and others just stretched it by saying, "oh, but you could take this game-time/credit, and sell it to another person, and make it a better deal, so it is P2W now too because it isn't breaking ToS", making that a few of the pets on the store is P2W too, as some become BoE, as well as TCG has some BoEs to make them P2W. So, the problem is, you've just now noticed that things could be P2W even though the win is supplied by another player and not a developer, stretching and expanding the old term to be, "Pay2Win is a method of where the developer can give you a headstart in gaining an advantage over others by interacting with others". My problem isn't to accept it, mine is now to classify it, token is P2W, then TCG and 1-2 pets on the store are P2W too.

Co-president is doing selling runs

No, that shit is bullshit. A member of staff should not be doing that, which sends a bad message to the player base about accepting an already flooding problem.

Stop inahle copium

Eh, you truly enjoy using that buzzword. It is like the new fad on the market.

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But they didnt find a solution. RMT, gold for boosts/carries & bots are as rampant as ever. If anything, its become worse. So no, Blizzard didnt solve anything with the token. They just saw a way to increase revenue without doing anything.

Eh, less than it used to be, still a lot, but less than it used to be.

[Dhrizzle]

Stop inahle copium

"Cope" and "copium" are dumb memes to start with and overusing them just strips them of any sense of meaning. What do you think you're trying to say with "stop inhale copium?" Do you even know or is it something you're just regurgitating?

[Lochton]

"Cope" and "copium" are dumb memes to start with and overusing them just strips them of any sense of meaning. What do you think you're trying to say with "stop inhale copium?" Do you even know or is it something you're just regurgitating?

Don't worry. The use of buzzwords in arguments is very common when they do not know what else to state or say. Even more common in politics.

[TBCCLOL]

"Cope" and "copium" are dumb memes to start with and overusing them just strips them of any sense of meaning. What do you think you're trying to say with "stop inhale copium?" Do you even know or is it something you're just regurgitating?

Whos this?

[Subzu]

Boosting is soulless.

I tell you what makes this game, doing content with friends progressing together as a group and clearing the content as a group, not as a solo player.

Want a single player game? Go play a single play game.

This game has been p2w from the start but it's the players tendencies that drive it, filth for defending this shit.

[TBCCLOL]

Why do you have to stretch and distort the definition of pay-2-win to cope with the fact you don't like WoW any more? It's perfectly valid to say you don't like the token or any of the other changes that have come in over the years without saying WoW is something it isn't.

https://www.urbandictionary.com/defi...erm=pay-to-win


Games that let you buy better gear or allow you to make better items then everyone else at a faster rate and then makes the game largely unbalanced even for people who have skill in the game without paying.

Buy Tokens->Get Gold->Get Gears from M+ or Mythic Raiding so better items faster than avg players with all the benef


Ignorant. get lost now.

[Raelbo]

But they didnt find a solution. RMT, gold for boosts/carries & bots are as rampant as ever. If anything, its become worse.

Citation needed.

My personal observations are that initially it had a significant impact. Blizzard got complacent as a result and reduced the amount of human resources they dedicated to combating it, the problem got a bit worse. I still think that 3rd party goldselling is down a lot from where it was. Botting too.

So no, Blizzard didnt solve anything with the token.

They might not have solved the problem entirely. That doesn't mean they achieved nothing. Botting is less than it was. Third party goldselling is less than it was. Less accounts get hacked by goldsellers. Blizzard's costs are down (less policing of goldselling and botting and having to help out customers with hacked accounts). Blizzard's revenues are up ($7 for every token, plus increased sales on the shop). That's quite a win.

They just saw a way to increase revenue without doing anything.

As I said already, I believe they saw multiple benefits. Yes, an increase in revenue was one of them. You're free to make of that what you will.

[Lochton]

Boosting is soulless.

Depends on the boosting, I'd say. I've boosted hundreds for over a decade but for free, a very few for payment but due to having to run the same content multiple times a day (mount farming in dungeons) but else, I like to help people through content.

I tell you what makes this game, doing content with friends progressing together as a group and clearing the content as a group, not as a solo player.

Want a single player game? Go play a single play game.

Fully agree with you on this to a point. The world should be able to be explored alone, as for the story too, but dungeons, raids and battlegrounds, of course should need people to band against stronger foes - just like a few mobs in the world.

This game has been p2w from the start but it's the players tendencies that drive it, filth for defending this shit.

Well, legally Pay2Win since October 2006 if you call trading with players P2W, before that, it was breaking ToS.

[Raelbo]

Boosting is soulless.

Then don't partake. Simple.

I tell you what makes this game, doing content with friends progressing together as a group and clearing the content as a group, not as a solo player.

I agree with you. But each unto their own. Who are you to judge how other players choose to approach this game?

This game has been p2w from the start but it's the players tendencies that drive it, filth for defending this shit.

I can see why you had to make a new account to post here....

This game has never been p2w. It is MMO. Players helping other players in multi-player content is part of that experience. And people being people, this will be done in exchange for money (or as in the case of the token, something with monetary value). I am not defending anything here, simply calling a spade a spade - ie pointing out that players boosting other players is not the same thing as p2w, even if there are some similarities.

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https://www.urbandictionary.com/defi...erm=pay-to-win


Games that let you buy better gear or allow you to make better items then everyone else at a faster rate and then makes the game largely unbalanced even for people who have skill in the game without paying.

I am SOOO glad you finally did some investigating of your own. Disappointed though at your reading comprehension...

1) The token does not "let you buy better or allow you to make better items than everyone else".

You cannot buy gear from the store. Period. You can only acquire gold. Gold can be used to buy some gear, but this gear is equally available to everyone else with gold. And because you're reliant on other players giving you their gold (in exchange for your token) you cannot claim that token sellers are somehow at an advantage over everyone else. In practice people buy gold with tokens because they're useless at making gold and far behind everyone else.

2) The token does not make the game unbalanced even for people who have skill in the game. Tell me, when you buy gold with a token, where is that gold coming from? Right, it comes from people in the game who have skill at making gold. Token sellers are therefore far behind those who have skill in making gold. Tell me, when you buy a boost, who is carrying your ass? That's right, it is people who are skilled in the game and able to run that content without having to pay - since, you know, they can't buy a boost from themselves.

Lastly, the site you quoted has several definitions. If you want to get an idea of what p2w actually means, you need to look at them collectively, not just cherry the pick one that you think is most convenient for your argument (and even there you managed to disprove your own argument. LOL)

Buy Tokens->Get Gold->Get Gears from M+ or Mythic Raiding so better items faster than avg players with all the benef

The definition you're quoting states that in p2w you're getting better items than everyone not paying, not just the average player. That's a massive shifting of the goalposts to support your narrative. I am even prepared to relax that requirement and interpret it as "almost everyone, except those who put in an unreasonable amount of effort". But even then this falls massively short.

Ignorant. get lost now.

Schooled. Eat humble pie.

[Dhrizzle]

https://www.urbandictionary.com/defi...erm=pay-to-win


Games that let you buy better gear or allow you to make better items then everyone else at a faster rate and then makes the game largely unbalanced even for people who have skill in the game without paying.

Buy Tokens->Get Gold->Get Gears from M+ or Mythic Raiding so better items faster than avg players with all the benef


Ignorant. get lost now.

If you buy a token to get a carry do you get better items than the people who beat the raid without buying a token? Are the people buying carries finishing the raids before anyone else, even the people carrying the? Do you realise swapping "everyone" for "average players" makes your summary different to the definition you thought would prove your point.

Is that what "copium" refers to?

[TBCCLOL]

So, you were part of the current known or differently earlier known Gallywix? So, either you were part of the RMT boosting problem or not?

Started in Legion, continued in BFA until the exodus. Now I never ever sold Gold for Money, I surely "coached" :wink: in MoP and WoD for CM and in Legion for the Tower Mage but mostly selling boost for gold which is legit and fine for Blizzard.
Now EVERY and i cannot stress enough, Boosting Community has its own rotten apple, sadly in our case the apples were in the top so rip, having said that in most cases people that RMT are people from poor EU country like Balcan / Est where the RMT is a better job than regular job no joking, the wow token/gold has better position than some 3rd world country currency.

The true and classic explanation of P2W used to be the purchase of advantage from the developers, people like you and others just stretched it by saying, "oh, but you could take this game-time/credit, and sell it to another person, and make it a better deal, so it is P2W now too because it isn't breaking ToS", making that a few of the pets on the store is P2W too, as some become BoE, as well as TCG has some BoEs to make them P2W. So, the problem is, you've just now noticed that things could be P2W even though the win is supplied by another player and not a developer, stretching and expanding the old term to be, "Pay2Win is a method of where the developer can give you a headstart in gaining an advantage over others by interacting with others". My problem isn't to accept it, mine is now to classify it, token is P2W, then TCG and 1-2 pets on the store are P2W too.

No the "true" and "classic" doesnt exist and it is just a bs you 2 are keeping talking about, I brought various example of Pay2Win because you clearly cannot understand how it is, is like saying that raping is the only case of sexual harassment but not groping, grooming or taking unsolicited pics.

We already give the P2W definition and its own shades.

No, that shit is bullshit. A member of staff should not be doing that, which sends a bad message to the player base about accepting an already flooding problem.



Eh, less than it used to be, still a lot, but less than it used to be.

You have literally no data to backup if RMT is less than 90% or 1% post Token, neither regarding bots, also regarding bots if TBCC is the example, well it is pretty fucked up.

I hate this multiquote stuff man...

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If you buy a token to get a carry do you get better items than the people who beat the raid without buying a token? Are the people buying carries finishing the raids before anyone else, even the people carrying the? Do you realise swapping "everyone" for "average players" makes your summary different to the definition you thought would prove your point.

Nice try kid but if you buy a boost from Echo to do Sylvanas HC and get the Legendary Bow before their Hunter, you got a better item than them and this can work even for non Legendary stuff due to RNG.
So yes you can EVEN get a better item than people that boost you due to RNG.

Attempt Failed #1

Also in WoD there was a big drama regarding the BMAH because STARS? a Chinese guild was buying GEAR FROM THE BMAH that were on the loot table of BLACKROCK FOUNDRY when the LAST RAID WAS HIGHMAUL and was the most insane example of PAY2WIN in WoW, that got fixed later because was too much.

With "Average Player" I am talking about you and the rest of people on this forum or on GD or reddit, the main part of the player base that doesnt do Mythic Raiding doesnt get Cutting Edge and is just stuck at 1/10 Myth and 9/10 HC

People that "CBA doing mythic raiding prog" and prefer spend money to buy tokens and getting boosted to a difficulty they will never do and to have an advantage compared to other players in the same condition.



Your ignorance is quite deep because you think that P2W in WoW means "beating Echo or Limit in WF" which is a really dumb idea.

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I am SOOO glad you finally did some investigating of your own. Disappointed though at your reading comprehension...

1) The token does not "let you buy better or allow you to make better items than everyone else".

I dont have to read further, you are too ignorant to understand, south africa schools doesnt teach english?



I would have less issue explaining how vaccines works with magas

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Also this part is so dumb is giving me a stroke irl

The definition you're quoting states that in p2w you're getting better items than everyone not paying, not just the average player.

How can you think that you get a better item than EVERYBODY ELSE if it is viable for EVERYBODY? If I buy a only shop item doesnt make it disappear for everybody else, more than 1 people can buy that "item" and thus making more people having better items than *check notes*

average players.


Not even proper logical thoughts guys wth