This game can probably use a purely tank class;

[Cosmic Janitor]

For this reason, every class must have a DPS spec or it will simply become a trap for casual players who will have problems with basic things in the game and will probably just quit out of annoyance.

I don't think the trap would be world content here. Everytime they queue for a dungeon they'd have to assume the tank role, even if all they know is how to slow-dps. That seems to be the bigger issue, at least compared to rest of the class structure in WoW. I agree though, it would be one of the least played classes by far.

[GreenJesus]

Well, i don't agree then. I don't think there is a problem in adding more classes, cause the game will never be balanced even if you don't add more classes and i obviously don't consider it a disruption, i consider it fun to add more play styles.

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No, but it will add fun and a new way to experience the game.

What is wrong with WoW can be solved without gutting the rest of the game. It just requires will from the devs.

Will it though? All I expect from the WoW team is removing abilities from existing classes in order to create a new one. They are completely bankrupt of new ideas.

[Val the Moofia Boss]

No.

The main gameplay of an average player is the world content, which is best done on a DPS class, regardless of what all the self-proclaimed game experts might say. Sure, tanks can play world content but they usually do much less damage than dps specs without good high level gear. For this reason, every class must have a DPS spec or it will simply become a trap for casual players who will have problems with basic things in the game and will probably just quit out of annoyance.

City of Heroes addressed this. The Defender was a tank class, but it was viable to play solo as one. Defenders had a passive that gives them bonus damage if they're solo. The damage bonus went down for each party member who joined the group, down to zero when you had a big enough party that your other DPS party members are making up for your low damage. Thus, defenders dealt enough damage solo to be just as good questing solo as a DPS, but in party content they function like a typical tank, dealing less damage than DPS so you don't have a reason to take multiple tanks over DPS.

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Realistically, a "pure tank class" would just function as a prot paladin with a damage buff while soloing and it's Seal of Righteousness equivalent turned off.

[cuafpr]

imo tanking stopped being fun when it became a "DPS" in tank gear... so not sure how a pure tank class would fix that. I'd rather see a move back to non dps rotation (or better no skill rotation ) tanking, no GCD on defensive cooldowns (not sure if that's still a thing?), Use a buff system like RF was only when it's on you generate threat at the expense of your DPS so you can solo still. Make tanking about mob pickup, boss moving, and controlling the fight

[Prothall]

Give my warrior Gladiator Stance back and you can have your tank. Otherwise, no.

[Amnaught]

Counter argument: Every tank and every healer should have a damage stance akin to the Gladiator of WoD.

As in, any spec can be a Damage spec.

Then, give *every* class at least one spec that can tank or heal, by adding a stance to an existing spec.

Mages: Chronomancy stance for Arcane. Flips all arcane attacks to heals, same gameplay as Arcane.
Hunters: Survival tanks.
Warlocks: Affliction healers.
Rogues: Outlaw tanks.

THEN, just for funsies, throw in some more.

Death Knight: Frost and Unholy tanking again!
Shaman: Enhancement tanking again!
Paladin: Retribution tanking
Priests: Shadow healing
Warrior: Fury and Arms tanking
Warlock: Demonology tanking, by replacing all demon summons with self-buffs, taking on demonic aspects by sacrificing demon souls instead of summoning them.

Again, these would all have the same gameplay. I just really wanna heal somebody with shadow magic honestly. Forsaken and Void Elves shouldnt have to stoop to the Light just to be able to keep their allies alive.

[Schizoide]

Then they'd have to balance twice as many specs. Demon Hunters didn't even get a third spec.

[Swnem]

Will it though? All I expect from the WoW team is removing abilities from existing classes in order to create a new one. They are completely bankrupt of new ideas.

I am not gonna defend them. But, there is clear room for a Tinker class. They explored it somewhat in BfA already. They just have to follow through. All those Azerite animations can be re-purposed as well for some abilities.

They can do whatever they want. They have the power to fix and expand the game. They just have to get their heads out of their rear ends and listen to the community rather than thinking they always know best.
Also, if we trash all the work it takes to design and balance these systems like artifact weapons, azerite powers, covenant abilities... these resources are more than enough to allow a new class to be made, existing classes to get new toys and better balance to happen. It's a case of allocating resources to the right tasks.

[epigramx]

HPS is like the least useful thing for healers though. What matters is CDs, mitigation, and dps. Holy is "fine" right now but it doesn't do enough damage to compete in dungeons and it doesn't have anything like Ashen Hallow for competitive raiding.

As I said it's generally irrelevant for a discussion that says "having both holy and disc brings depth to a person that want to be exclusively healer" (I don't disagree with the details of what you said). The point was those things change or can change each major patch. A practical way they had done that in the past was everyone thought disc is amazing because of its bubbling and then they nerfed the bubbling and they put a bigger CD on it and they massively buffed the HPS of holy so in the end while we're right to say "HPS isn't an end-all": well it will be better if it's massive and the other one is nerfed (for a patch that does that).

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pure dps classes only work because there are many dps spots. similarly for healers it's 6 specs competing for 4-5 spots.

tanks however is 6 specs competing for 2 spots, and if you look at raider.io/warcraftlogs you can also see that the meta/fotm specs are also much much much more represented. so yeah real chance a pure tank class can get shafted quite hard in the game.

similar for M+, play the meta/fotm tank spec and you get invited a lot faster than if you play the least favorite spec. doesn't matter that "you aren't the worst", people only look for "the best".

That's a fallacy. You omit the factor of how many want to play tank; I can assure you: most people want to "deeps" because it's the easiest way to be competitive (damage meters) and it's very logical it is like that because humans are naturally competitive.

That basically means that it doesn't matter if there are 2 spots when only ~20% of those that play DPS would switch to tanking; it fact: it may be even less so the analogy may make your position worse(!) but it's safer to say we just don't know exactly.

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Well, i don't agree then. I don't think there is a problem in adding more classes, cause the game will never be balanced even if you don't add more classes and i obviously don't consider it a disruption, i consider it fun to add more play styles.

I don't disagree with you if I take it too selfishly. But I think it might hurt the game because it's not only us around. New players probably already get overwhelmed by seeing a game with twelve classes.

[Hellobolis]

AThat's a fallacy. You omit the factor of how many want to play tank; I can assure you: most people want to "deeps" because it's the easiest way to be competitive (damage meters) and it's very logical it is like that because humans are naturally competitive.

That basically means that it doesn't matter if there are 2 spots when only ~20% of those that play DPS would switch to tanking; it fact: it may be even less so the analogy may make your position worse(!) but it's safer to say we just don't know exactly.

depends what context you are talking about.

pugging/heroic guilds? nobody want to tank and dps is easy.
mythic raiding guilds? tank spots are the hardest spots to get by far, and dps without immunity/crucial ability has a hard time being competitive.
M+? known tons of dps players who go tank for that, oftentimes not just cause it's easier to get groups but because dungeon tanking is generally more fun than raidtanking.

and no offense, but if you are going to use the "people dont want to tank" argument, then your pure tank class idea is dead on arrival just from that isn't it?

[epigramx]

depends what context you are talking about.

pugging/heroic guilds? nobody want to tank and dps is easy.
mythic raiding guilds? tank spots are the hardest spots to get by far, and dps without immunity/crucial ability has a hard time being competitive.
M+? known tons of dps players who go tank for that, oftentimes not just cause it's easier to get groups but because dungeon tanking is generally more fun than raidtanking.

and no offense, but if you are going to use the "people dont want to tank" argument, then your pure tank class idea is dead on arrival just from that isn't it?

I think I noticed as well a higher supply of tanks on raid teams (well: with a sample of 1). But: I think I can explain it; a lot more boys are men now and tanking is a more traditionally 'responsible' job so I believe as the average age of the early players rises (and the game is based a lot on players that started at least since MoP) then tanking will probably start getting more people.

By the way: you misunderstood the true purpose of my suggestion; I do not want to just add more tanks; I want to make a better game for people that want to exclusively tank because pure classes offer a more convenient environment for them (e.g. picking a priest brings great depth of gameplay and security to anyone that wants to be a dedicated healer).

[Hellobolis]

I want to make a better game for people that want to exclusively tank because pure classes offer a more convenient environment for them (e.g. picking a priest brings great depth of gameplay and security to anyone that wants to be a dedicated healer).

Not really my experience in recent years, but perhaps that's cause i'm in a higher ranking guild now. In my experience both tanks and healers simply reroll to the fotm/meta classes every patch. and that would probably just end up happening for a pure tank class too.

and for priest specifically, for many years it's been the case that your first priest is mandatory disc, and all your other priest are mandatory not-disc. so sure it brings some security but it's not all sunshine either.

[MoanaLisa]

A lot of us want to be confident that a ranged dps or melee (rogue) or healing or tanking role will be almost guaranteed to not be terrible at our main class.

There are terrible mages and rogues. Class doesn't guarantee competence.

If people want to tank they will find a way. They have plenty of options. If they don't, having a tank only class isn't going to change their minds.

[epigramx]

Not really my experience in recent years, but perhaps that's cause i'm in a higher ranking guild now. In my experience both tanks and healers simply reroll to the fotm/meta classes every patch. and that would probably just end up happening for a pure tank class too.

and for priest specifically, for many years it's been the case that your first priest is mandatory disc, and all your other priest are mandatory not-disc. so sure it brings some security but it's not all sunshine either.

That's a very niche level of gameplay. Even guilds below the top 100 or at least 200 will have the majority of players to never re-roll just for the flavor of the patch spec.

A good semi-hard core balance for most guilds is to pick a class but if your spec is totally crap: play another spec.

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There are terrible mages and rogues. Class doesn't guarantee competence.

If people want to tank they will find a way. They have plenty of options. If they don't, having a tank only class isn't going to change their minds.

You are off topic. I do not discuss here who is skilled or not; and I do not claim a shortage of tanks; in fact: tanks may be more lately (possibly because a lot of young players became adults and tanking is a more 'responsible' job but that's another discussion too).

This is strictly about making the game better for people that love being exclusively tanks and going in depth into that role; it has nothing to do about their skill; it has nothing to do about a claim "there are few tanks" (they are not (necessarily)).

[Beefhammer]

it already has purely dps classes (both on range and melee) and it also has an almost purely healer class; the advantage of those classes is that if someone wants to focus on a specific role then he can be confident that role will not be totally ruined in a certain class (e.g. it's approximately impossible for locks to be terrible on all their specs or for a priest to be terrible on both healing specs).

One could say they should make a 13th class or a 14th class for whatever reason (this topic's reason or another with another goal); but that's probably a bad idea because the game already has 12 classes; that might make it already overwhelming to a new player in terms of class choice.

For that reason it might be a good idea to reshuffle a current class for goals of this type; for an almost purely tanking class I believe warriors would be fitting to have 2+ tanking specs (member dk of wotlk?) maybe as a 4th spec; warrior is a quintessential tank class since vanilla.

If someone wants to purely focus on that role than they can pick a tanking class and stay in it's taning spec. No need to offer a solution for a non existent problem. I mean, I cannot recall the last time I used Holy or Ret on my Paladin. Maybe Cata for PvP. I've strictly been a tank.

[epigramx]

If someone wants to purely focus on that role than they can pick a tanking class and stay in it's taning spec. No need to offer a solution for a non existent problem. I mean, I cannot recall the last time I used Holy or Ret on my Paladin. Maybe Cata for PvP. I've strictly been a tank.

It's not a problem. It's an advantage to be a priest if you want to be exclusively and in depth a healer; it is an advantage to be a mage or a lock if you want to be exclusively and in depth a ranged; it is an advantage to be a rogue if you want to be exclusively and in depth a melee.

If you want to be exclusively a tank you have no such class; you can not feel secure that you will have a class that will approximately never be ruined at tanking (if you accept that one of the tanking specs may be massively nerfed); it's a not a problem: it's an opportunity.

[geegeemacky]

It wouldn’t hurt

[Swnem]

I don't disagree with you if I take it too selfishly. But I think it might hurt the game because it's not only us around. New players probably already get overwhelmed by seeing a game with twelve classes.

FF's current 29 classes in one single character don't seem to be a disruption to the growth of the game. Why do you think that a player that doesn't know left from right cares about game balance? Having more classes and more fantasies to choose from is a good thing. It attracts more players.

[Ielenia]

it already has purely dps classes (both on range and melee) and it also has an almost purely healer class; the advantage of those classes is that if someone wants to focus on a specific role then he can be confident that role will not be totally ruined in a certain class (e.g. it's approximately impossible for locks to be terrible on all their specs or for a priest to be terrible on both healing specs).

One could say they should make a 13th class or a 14th class for whatever reason (this topic's reason or another with another goal); but that's probably a bad idea because the game already has 12 classes; that might make it already overwhelming to a new player in terms of class choice.

For that reason it might be a good idea to reshuffle a current class for goals of this type; for an almost purely tanking class I believe warriors would be fitting to have 2+ tanking specs (member dk of wotlk?) maybe as a 4th spec; warrior is a quintessential tank class since vanilla.

"Alright, dude. We already have two tanks. Can you DPS for us? Oh, you're 'that class' that can only tank? Well, sucks to be you, then. Like I said, we already have two tanks, so scram."

EDIT: Also, "it's almost impossible for locks to be terrible on all their specs". Clearly you're giving the average WoW player way too much credit.

[Teriz]

If anything, the next class should be tank, DPS, heals, with DPS being physical (non-caster) ranged.

That gives everything a nice balance.