Official High Elf Discussion Megathread

[FossilFree]

I agree with you. While I would have liked to see a few new hairstyles for void elves at the very least, I would imagine that blizzard may have given void elves less attention due to the ire of some blood elf players upset about what they felt was their exclusive aesthetic being shared. Then again, it could simply be blizzard thinking that they could get away with giving void elves hand-me-downs instead of devoting time and resources to them right now.

With hindsight we can see that blizzard has been trickling the high elf customization to void elves over time. Whether that was intentionally done to avoid massive backlash from blood elf players, or done simply because of an evolving position on whether or not to allow void elves to have such options is anyone's guess. But now that void elves essentially have the high elf aesthetic, anything else they get will hopefully be new assets. There is understandably some amount of "elf fatigue" with so much attention on void elves, even if it was only copy/pastes of blood elf assets for the most part. With any luck, void elves will get some brand new assets with 10.0.

I mean, they don't necessarily need Blood Elf hairstyles, they should get unique ones. But I hear what you are saying. I do think it would be rather lame to hold back expanded customization from Void Elves and only give them copypaste stuff just because Blood Elf players will get annoyed though. It's not like the annoyance of Night Elf players prevented Nightborne from getting stuff.

The weird thing about "elf fatigue" is that elf requests keep topping the charts everywhere you look. I think there is a vocal minority that is sick of elves, but the majority seems to want more stuff for all 4 versions of them. By rights, Dark Irons and Mag'har should be up next for a pass, but you don't hear nary a peep about suggestions for those. The dwarf thread died pretty fast too.

I guess the players just love elves that much . Throw the Blood Elves a bone already so we can move forward finally, maybe a bloody bone even. Or maybe a glow in the dark bone? Flashlight bone? I dunno, the Blood Elf fans seem unable to settle on what it is they want. Maybe if they united behind one idea they would get it.

[Kyriani]

I mean, they don't necessarily need Blood Elf hairstyles, they should get unique ones. But I hear what you are saying. I do think it would be rather lame to hold back expanded customization from Void Elves and only give them copypaste stuff just because Blood Elf players will get annoyed though. It's not like the annoyance of Night Elf players prevented Nightborne from getting stuff.

The weird thing about "elf fatigue" is that elf requests keep topping the charts everywhere you look. I think there is a vocal minority that is sick of elves, but the majority seems to want more stuff for all 4 versions of them. By rights, Dark Irons and Mag'har should be up next for a pass, but you don't hear nary a peep about suggestions for those. The dwarf thread died pretty fast too.

I guess the players just love elves that much . Throw the Blood Elves a bone already so we can move forward finally, maybe a bloody bone even. Or maybe a glow in the dark bone? Flashlight bone? I dunno, the Blood Elf fans seem unable to settle on what it is they want. Maybe if they united behind one idea they would get it.

As an elf lover myself, I get what you're saying about elf popularity. You're also right in that it doesn't seem like other races get anywhere near as much activity in their threads as elves do. I don't think night elf players get annoyed about nightborne in the same way as blood elf players do about void elves because nightborne haven't been given straight up copy/pastes of night elf assets, while void elves have been given the skin colors, and now also hair colors, of blood elves. There's also the fact that the nightborne model is noticeably different from the night elf model, while the blood elf and void elf models are identical. And now that void elves have both the skin and hair colors of blood elves, the main things left differentiating them visually are class availability, hairstyles and faction allegiance.

Personally, I also feel that some of the anger over void elves getting high elf options stems from some players being annoyed at the high elf requests over the years and seeing blizzard "cave" on it finally. There's a small segment of the playerbase who simply felt that alliance should never have gotten anything remotely in the neighborhood of high elves, not because of lore reasons (because we all know that high elves exist on the alliance today), but because they felt that once tbc gave blood elves to the horde, that high elves were "theirs" from that point on. Some probably also took pleasure from seeing high elf requests they never believed would be fulfilled, and now they are reeling from consecutive blows (the model, the eyes, the skin, and now the hair).

On the official forums, all they've really had left to fall back on now are barbs about void elves not having access to silvermoon or the paladin class, and the fact that entropic embrace turns them blue. I can only imagine how apoplectic with rage those players would be if blizzard allowed void elves access to the paladin class and/or allowed entropic embrace customization. Obviously silvermoon is always going to remain a horde capital under blood elf rule (unless blizz decides to "burn it" along with the exodar)

I think the best hope for any "focus" on blood elf requests is for dark ranger/san'layn options. Those themes are present as in-game assets already, and are also a long time request. Fel blood, light themes, and blood magic themes, all seem rather nebulous or niche in their popularity compared to the dark ranger/san'layn themes.

[FossilFree]

As an elf lover myself, I get what you're saying about elf popularity. You're also right in that it doesn't seem like other races get anywhere near as much activity in their threads as elves do. I don't think night elf players get annoyed about nightborne in the same way as blood elf players do about void elves because nightborne haven't been given straight up copy/pastes of night elf assets, while void elves have been given the skin colors, and now also hair colors, of blood elves. There's also the fact that the nightborne model is noticeably different from the night elf model, while the blood elf and void elf models are identical. And now that void elves have both the skin and hair colors of blood elves, the main things left differentiating them visually are class availability, hairstyles and faction allegiance.

Personally, I also feel that some of the anger over void elves getting high elf options stems from some players being annoyed at the high elf requests over the years and seeing blizzard "cave" on it finally. There's a small segment of the playerbase who simply felt that alliance should never have gotten anything remotely in the neighborhood of high elves, not because of lore reasons (because we all know that high elves exist on the alliance today), but because they felt that once tbc gave blood elves to the horde, that high elves were "theirs" from that point on. Some probably also took pleasure from seeing high elf requests they never believed would be fulfilled, and now they are reeling from consecutive blows (the model, the eyes, the skin, and now the hair).

On the official forums, all they've really had left to fall back on now are barbs about void elves not having access to silvermoon or the paladin class, and the fact that entropic embrace turns them blue. I can only imagine how apoplectic with rage those players would be if blizzard allowed void elves access to the paladin class and/or allowed entropic embrace customization. Obviously silvermoon is always going to remain a horde capital under blood elf rule (unless blizz decides to "burn it" along with the exodar)

I think the best hope for any "focus" on blood elf requests is for dark ranger/san'layn options. Those themes are present as in-game assets already, and are also a long time request. Fel blood, light themes, and blood magic themes, all seem rather nebulous or niche in their popularity compared to the dark ranger/san'layn themes.

You make some good points. I do think its weird how people try to blame the fans when they make requests. If they want to be mad, they should blame Blizzard. One expansion after the release of Blood Elves in TBC, Blizzard went ahead and added the Silver Covenant, reputation and all, of Alliance High Elves. Then they kept creating more lore for them, especially in MoP and Legion. Should anyone be surprised that fans would start asking for that when our faces are being rubbed in it all the time?

At this point, making the High Elf options neutral to both makes the most sense. Then VE and BE each have their unique hook on top of that. Granted, VE got something a bit more unique, but BE still have their holy options too. Those could be expanded on a bit sure, as they aren't currently an equal number of options to the VE voidy ones. However, it doesn't seem like the holy options were super well-received, and San'layn ones seem to be more popular. A hit and miss for Blizz for sure.

- - - Updated - - -

I know everybody's hyped for the High Elf skins, but I just want to point out that with the tentacle toggle, a couple of the void skins, and the vast majority of the hair cuts available to them... you can make a san'layn look alike too with a void elf. The hairstyles are all very traditionally gothic/vampiric, more so than anything on the blood elf kit. It's pretty much 100% if you make a DK, especially considering red isn't the main eye colour for them.

I'm literally able to make all 3 sub-types of Thalassian I enjoy on Alliance on the PTR right now. (Quel'dorei, Ren'dorei, San'layn.)
It's actually insane how a few options gave us an insane amount of potential, and we're sort of sleeping on it.

Anything we get going forwards just expands on the high elf kit, and could potentially open doors to more unique stuff too.
We didn't get much on the PTR, but what we got is actually insane when you sit down and start fiddling with the character creation.

It's a pretty niche thing, but it's sort of... there.

They almost do look like a San'layn that swapped out bloody themes for shadowy themes.

[Shayatu]

The fact that this thread is still going strong is a testament to how passionate people are about the high elves being playable for the Alliance. I know we have the skin tones and soon to be hair colors on void elves, but it isn't quite what we want.

[Mungho]

The fact that this thread is still going strong is a testament to how passionate people are about the high elves being playable for the Alliance. I know we have the skin tones and soon to be hair colors on void elves, but it isn't quite what we want.

Then what do you want?

[Kyriani]

The fact that this thread is still going strong is a testament to how passionate people are about the high elves being playable for the Alliance. I know we have the skin tones and soon to be hair colors on void elves, but it isn't quite what we want.

Once void elves were added, any hope of an alliance race called "high elf" dropped to virtually nil. Even still, with the customization options we can visually portray void elves as high elves. And maybe we'll see some lore additions in the future that tells us more about the elves joining the ren'dorei, and maybe moves the alliance high elf story forward as part of the void elf story.

[Ardenaso]

You make some good points. I do think its weird how people try to blame the fans when they make requests. If they want to be mad, they should blame Blizzard. One expansion after the release of Blood Elves in TBC, Blizzard went ahead and added the Silver Covenant, reputation and all, of Alliance High Elves. Then they kept creating more lore for them, especially in MoP and Legion. Should anyone be surprised that fans would start asking for that when our faces are being rubbed in it all the time?

there's also the High Elf tent in WoD that is exclusive for the Alliance

- - - Updated - - -

At this point, making the High Elf options neutral to both makes the most sense. Then VE and BE each have their unique hook on top of that. Granted, VE got something a bit more unique, but BE still have their holy options too. Those could be expanded on a bit sure, as they aren't currently an equal number of options to the VE voidy ones. However, it doesn't seem like the holy options were super well-received, and San'layn ones seem to be more popular. A hit and miss for Blizz for sure.

or perhaps just let anyone alight with anything they want (of course make it harder for Alliance races to rep grind on Horde and vice versa since it's logical) to simply solve the High Elf dilemma (and perhaps the Alteraci Human, Lightbound Orc, etc. too)

[FossilFree]

there's also the High Elf tent in WoD that is exclusive for the Alliance

- - - Updated - - -



or perhaps just let anyone alight with anything they want (of course make it harder for Alliance races to rep grind on Horde and vice versa since it's logical) to simply solve the High Elf dilemma (and perhaps the Alteraci Human, Lightbound Orc, etc. too)

Oh yea, I forgot about the tent.

I like the idea of letting you choose factions. Just start out at unfriendly rep or something and have Timbermaw Hold style turn-ins to gain favor with that faction.

[Luck4]

While I'm happy about the almost 100% High Elf look on the Alliance, I'm still a bit sad that doomsayers were right when they said that High Elves would only be a thing when this game would be on the bottom/dying.

I'm praying for the next expansion to be successful, so I can enjoy the High Elves a little longer.

[Mace]

I'm very much against sub-factions being more class based. Farstrider is mainly just Blood Elf Hunters.
That doesn't work.

To get this idea to work, it needs to be sections within the respective societies like the Sunreavers. You can have Sunreaver Magi, Sunreaver Rangers or Sunreaver Paladins.
Farstrider is just minimizing things down to one class, whereas organisations like the Sunreavers, the Shen'dralar - they work, because they carry a variety of classes with them. They are not just Sin'dorei Mages or night elf mages.

Sunreavers as an example, could carry more red based tattoos and be the group of Sin'dorei that carry facial runes.

Sun factions sometimes make sense but not always.

Like the DH customisations make sense only for DHs.

However in theory they can be extended to warlocks - Illidari are highly specialised melee and spell casters at the very zenith point of their game. They don’t need to be warriors rogues or hunters because their DH style is better in lore and already covered in the class. (Well Hunter isn’t covered in the class). But DHs have never used bows in lore or game. But they have used spells extensively. Fel based ones

The customisation can be extended to blood elf warlocks and night elf warlocks can be possible only if they are Illidari.

In this case class specific use of customisations work.

Mostly they don’t. But care should be taken.

The Farstriders
The Magisters
The Blood knight

Amongst these three only the Farstriders can warrant a specific customisation. But that can be open to every blood elf class.

Farstriders are hunters, warriors and rogues because the real class is Ranger a hero unit. As such doesn’t exist, it makes sense that in terms of the playable classes. Farstriders are mainly that.


But it gets cloudy qs you can have honourary members from any class. Be a party of then. So players of any class can be a Farstrider.

Now blizzard needs a way in character creation to alert people this is Farstriders without needing to know a lot about Thalasssian elves and more than just a name for one of the options.

This is why the idea of presets is good. You have presets like Farstrider on the left. You click and it would bring up a preset random Farstrider appearance and re arrange the customisation options to highlight the Farstrider specific ones.

You still have access to all the others.

There is also a text description summary telling you a little about the Farstriders.


This can work for a lot of things.

1. Can work for sun race groups like wildhammer and high elf., sand troll
2. Sub Factional groups like Farstrider and Highborne for night elves.
3. Even separate faction groups that are class restricted like Illidari as explained above, darkfallen undead elves that would just open up DK undead appearances without the DK glory eyes to blood elf classes but likely impose red eyes and maybe some forsaken eye options. This use can also be done for kid elf paladins - so a void elf paladins will hide the void elf purple skin tones and void hair option.


Some options have no restrictions. Highborne can choose to be more than mages, even druids

[Tanaria]

SNIP

Sunreavers sub faction would be better.

Magisters can warrant their own features such as runes and Rommath-like tattoos, but again - it should all fall under either a Sunreaver sub faction or Sunfury sub faction. (Maybe the latter, since they are part of the Quel'Thalas society.)

Again, I just don't think you can have a "Farstrider" sub faction feature, because your essentially saying that blood elves should ONLY be Hunters. That's their core, whilst saying something ridiculous like Highborne are a HUGE part of night elf society, when they aren't.
Their is more to the Sin'dorei than just being a bunch of Farstriders, so singling them out and ignoring the Magisters (the Mage class being the core class on how Blizzard originally introduced the Blood Elves), just seems silly.

again, if you want Highborne, then the ideal scenario is that the Sunfury-sub faction is opened up and with that, comes features for all classes, including but not limited to, runic facials and body tattoos.

It's like saying that Night Elves shouldn't have a "Highborne" sub features, but have a "Cenarian" feature, which is more than Night Elf Druids, as it can work for Night Elf Warriors and Hunters.

[Mace]

Sunreavers sub faction would be better.

Magisters can warrant their own features such as runes and Rommath-like tattoos, but again - it should all fall under either a Sunreaver sub faction or Sunfury sub faction. (Maybe the latter, since they are part of the Quel'Thalas society.)
.

Agreed, Sunreavers sub faction wouldbe better, it allows them to do more interesting things, a multi magi complex society, - the Sunreavers more in the vein of the old high elf institution and the Magisters incorporating new avenues like the blood mages etc, and competing influences. Etc.

At the heart, the Sunreavers would be the outward facing Magi group of the blood elves.. so they are heavily involved with Dalaran, global affairs, world building etc, so also very proper.. but the Magisters of Silvermoon is very factional..it's blood elf loyal, and horde loyal, stuff other mages like the Kirin'tor or especially the Highborne or Nightborne might not approve of or they may want to keep away, could be options to explore there.

Again, I just don't think you can have a "Farstrider" sub faction feature, because your essentially saying that blood elves should ONLY be Hunters. That's their core, whilst saying something ridiculous like Highborne are a HUGE part of night elf society, when they aren't.
Their is more to the Sin'dorei than just being a bunch of Farstriders, so singling them out and ignoring the Magisters (the Mage class being the core class on how Blizzard originally introduced the Blood Elves), just seems silly.

Should take the tie to read what I'm writing instead of respond It sounds like you have pre-conceived ideas of what I think Farstriders should be, without actually looking at what I'm writing.

When does having Farstrider as a sub-faction feature mean or where did you read to think I was saying blood elves should only be hunters. How does having a Farstrider subfaction mean that? You have just stated Sunreavers can be a faction open up to several classes, I pretty much said essentially that for the Farstriders.. there is no where that says they are exclusively hunters.. they aren't even hunters, we know of them as Rangers, hunter is just a class type, generic to explore a playstyle with several fantasies, but doesn't necessarily incorporate everything a ranger can be.. and who is to say Rangers are the only ones that can be Farstriders or should be?

Even if that was the case in the past, who is to say they remained that way after all the upheaval to their society? I don't get you sometimes.


ALso, I didn't say Highborne are a huge part of the alliance night elf society now... but I state the arcane is a huge part of the night elf race. (race =/= the same as society here, and arcane magic =/= as pracitising the arcane or arcane spell casting.) Furthermore, the Highborne are their own society and group. It's a smaller group of people that have joined a larger populace of people..at least it was larger until theWoT.. if you facotr in the war of thorns account, the highborne are probably now a large portion of the Kaldorei alliance elves.. because mos tof htose that were slaughtered were Darnassian folk.. the mages were doing portals or orking for the kirin'tor...bu that's another topic.

again, if you want Highborne, then the ideal scenario is that the Sunfury-sub faction is opened up and with that, comes features for all classes, including but not limited to, runic facials and body tattoos.

It's like saying that Night Elves shouldn't have a "Highborne" sub features, but have a "Cenarian" feature, which is more than Night Elf Druids, as it can work for Night Elf Warriors and Hunters.

Yes agreed with you there. Which is why I wasn't saying that. Not opposing the idea of a sunfury sub-faction, I think it's a very good idea.

Stop being so defensive. I don't hate blood elves or looking to disadvantage them.. No need to get prickly over it.


But as this is a high elf topic.. I would add that High elf would show up as a preset of void elf. So if void elves get tattoos and farstrider tattoos etc, they would be available to them. Now should high elf have an additional Silver Covenant sub-faction label? Don't think so, although they could make "high elf" as "Silver Covenanat" label instead of High elf.. the latter might be better than the former, but high elf is the label people want to see, you'd lose out big time by calling the preset Silver Covenant. And if you have High elf down there, you shouldn't bother with a SIlver Covenant preset, but focus on more void elf related sub-factions like the Riftwalkers, Riftblades etc imo

[MyWholeLifeIsThunder]

While I'm happy about the almost 100% High Elf look on the Alliance, I'm still a bit sad that doomsayers were right when they said that High Elves would only be a thing when this game would be on the bottom/dying.

I'm praying for the next expansion to be successful, so I can enjoy the High Elves a little longer.

Lol, but kinda, yeah.

[Rootsbum]

Are they done with Void Elves now? Hair colors, ear sizes, and tentacle toggle doesn't really compare to all the options LFD, HMT, and Nightborne got.

I see it more as a bandaid to fix player wishes.
In the future youcan just remove tentacles from the new stuff.
I hope they start focus on only void-stuff now though. They are after all VOID elves. The High-elf look is just a great bonus

[MyWholeLifeIsThunder]

Oh yea, I forgot about the tent.

I like the idea of letting you choose factions. Just start out at unfriendly rep or something and have Timbermaw Hold style turn-ins to gain favor with that faction.

I would really just love a Mercenary type of gameplay where you could earn reputation with each faction individually, but some would be opposite to others, a la Aldor/Scryer.

As for the heavily factioned missions, they could be either just be disabled (for example, missions where you're treated as a General) Or they could be reworked as you being an Agent for the SI:7/Honorbound (or another one of your own characters mmm)

[FossilFree]

I see it more as a bandaid to fix player wishes.
In the future youcan just remove tentacles from the new stuff.
I hope they start focus on only void-stuff now though. They are after all VOID elves. The High-elf look is just a great bonus

They have enough variety in colors now that I think they can start working on voidy options too.

I would really just love a Mercenary type of gameplay where you could earn reputation with each faction individually, but some would be opposite to others, a la Aldor/Scryer.

As for the heavily factioned missions, they could be either just be disabled (for example, missions where you're treated as a General) Or they could be reworked as you being an Agent for the SI:7/Honorbound (or another one of your own characters mmm)

I would like something like that. They could also maintain the ability to switch back, but it would require even more effort, just like Aldor/Scryers.

[Varodoc]

It is clear that this is only the beginning. These options are still missing for the Ren'dorei:

- Green eyes (they have Sin'dorei scholars too amidst their ranks)
- Red eyes (all Death Knights should get them really)
- Entropic Embrace: Either give the option to make it a Permanent state or give skin options that closely resemble it
- Tattoos, both Magister-themed (the second-in-command of the Ren'dorei is a Magister...) and Farstrider-themed, emanating Void energy
- Unique hair effects, "astral hair" so to say
- Unique Corruption effects, like eyes resembling the Eye of N'Zoth, or the option to have a "third" eye on the forehead that resembles an Eye of N'Zoth; perhaps an option to have half the face "scarred" and "distorted" similar to Zuraal the Ascended from the Seat of the Triumvirate dungeon
- Unique skin colour where you can have patches of dark skin and patches of fair skin
- Unique hand effects similar to the ones the Nightborne are getting, but with Void energy instead of Arcane
- More jewelry options; necklace, armbands, bracelets, like the Blood elves got; also bandages similar to the Ethereals (the Ren'dorei were doomed to become just like the Ethereals before Alleria intervened)
- Utilizing the Mechagnome mechanic, give the option to have a "tentacle-arm" similar to the Faceless Ones

This is just the tip of the iceberg in terms of customization.

[Beloren]

It is clear that this is only the beginning. These options are still missing for the Ren'dorei:

- Green eyes (they have Sin'dorei scholars too amidst their ranks)
- Red eyes (all Death Knights should get them really)
- Entropic Embrace: Either give the option to make it a Permanent state or give skin options that closely resemble it
- Tattoos, both Magister-themed (the second-in-command of the Ren'dorei is a Magister...) and Farstrider-themed, emanating Void energy
- Unique hair effects, "astral hair" so to say
- Unique Corruption effects, like eyes resembling the Eye of N'Zoth, or the option to have a "third" eye on the forehead that resembles an Eye of N'Zoth; perhaps an option to have half the face "scarred" and "distorted" similar to Zuraal the Ascended from the Seat of the Triumvirate dungeon
- Unique skin colour where you can have patches of dark skin and patches of fair skin
- Unique hand effects similar to the ones the Nightborne are getting, but with Void energy instead of Arcane
- More jewelry options; necklace, armbands, bracelets, like the Blood elves got; also bandages similar to the Ethereals (the Ren'dorei were doomed to become just like the Ethereals before Alleria intervened)
- Utilizing the Mechagnome mechanic, give the option to have a "tentacle-arm" similar to the Faceless Ones

This is just the tip of the iceberg in terms of customization.

Disagree on Red eyes, it's the main distinguishing factor between Dark fallen, and non-Lich controlled or empowered undead. that blue glow is frost death magic - but the red can symbolise something else not related.

Astral hair prob should go to night elves, but void star hair to void elves - they coud use that as another visual similarity/connection between night and void elves - one looks at the bright silver stars of hte cosmos, the oter looks into the deep void with the purple nexus glow of the stars.. could be interesting. I'd say more interesting hair effects too on the void side. Like adding purple tinges effect (separate from tentacles). So you have 3:
1. Void star version of astral hair (normal astral to go to night elves)
2. Purple/mauve tinged dual hair colour
3. Void effects hair, more versions than the current one. Even have a "living hair effect"

Definitely corruption effects

More jewellery option too.

I'd agree with one shade of green because technically yes, the core of the void elves are blood elves more so than high elves.

Tentacle arm option is an awesome idea.


We got pretty much a lot of what we wanted for Nightborne, is no one pushing this for void elves?

[Varodoc]

In a dream world Blizzard would implement all of the above; but at the same time, Blizzard knows that the Ren'dorei are the best and most popular allied race ever, while the Nightborne, LF Draenei, and HM Tauren were in dire need of a miracle, so they might just take the lazy route and say "Ah well, the Void elves print millions just by existing, so there's no point in adding further options for them".

The curse of being extremely popular and marketable

[Ardenaso]

WIP on updating Vereesa Windrunner in WC3 Reforged: