[Megathread] Amazon's New World MMO

[crusadernero]

That's definitely the main problem. Other games are big grinds as well, but the difference is NW has no "break points", which are the point you know if you grind out another level or two then you'll go to a completely different zone/planet and the grind feels like it resets. And you get one of these every 5-10 levels.

Yep. Even in classic wow(with EK & K) the zones changes and have variation, so does the mobs. Lots of different things to look at, several kind of mobs to fight.

This game will live or die on the new content coming. Those zones better be something different than the base game. A whole lot.

[Tojara]

Honestly the game is the same from the first 20 minutes of play, all the way until 60. Which is both a strength and a weakness because it allows you to do whatever the hell you want in regards to leveling. If you're looking for a deep story, you won't find it in this game though. If you're the type of player that just kind of runs around collecting and gathering everything, you'll probably enjoy the gameplay loop throughout the leveling experience. It's certainly not for everybody though and it's true that the overall loop in this game doesn't really change a whole lot.

This game could've probably been left in the cooker for a bit longer, but that's mainly concerning the end game at the moment. I'm not necessarily complaining about the lack of an end game, more or less complaining about how there's a lot of bugs, or surely unintended mechanisms in the game once you hit 60. While I'm not opposed to their water mark system entirely, aspects of it seem a bit silly and surely the raw amount of time needed to acquire additional dungeon keys certainly can't be intended?

The dungeons are quite fun in this game TBH and the PvE invasions where NPCs attack the towns are actually fairly enjoyable as well (except for the governing leaders being able to spam kick people out of invasions until they get everybody in their guild in). Haven't really done much of the PvP but it's pretty much what I expected from the little I did. It's certainly not bad and is decent enough for people who dig that shit to have a good time with it.

Crafting/Gathering are the biggest strong suits in this game though, and for whatever reason I just got lost multiple times doing just that. Pretty much all of it's useful but there are a few problems with it. It's nice that crafting can theoretically give you the absolute best gear in the game, but it's fairly unrealistic for that to happen for a few reasons. The amount of materials required is absolutely absurd in the context of how much time/money you're pissing away randomly rolling for 3 mods/perks in an ABSOLUTELY GIANT MOD POOL.

As it currently stands the best items in the game have up to 4 rolls, and you can only guarantee one, essentially meaning that 90% of the items are going to be worthless for you, with the possibility of something maybe being passable for somebody else. I really think they should allow you to lock in two mods at some point (whether it require max level crafting or something else, IDC) to minimize some of the RNG involved. Even in a world where you can lock in two traits the giant mod pool still makes it incredibly hard to roll exactly perfect items, but it does make it far more possible for you to get something usable or sellable. This wouldn't be nearly as big of a deal regardless though if the material cost wasn't massive (which I think would be fair in a world with two locked in mods). As it stands, it's much better to spend way less money to spam perfect rare or maybe even epic gear. For the cost involved, it's just far more cost efficient to spam rares that have two BiS traits (remember, one is locked in) then spending probably 10-15x that cost making something with 4 traits.

Game like any other game will live/die based on it's updates though. I also feel they did a real disservice to some players by making the first maybe 3/4 of the game visually look kind of the same. There are some really cool zones in the 45+ range that are unlike everything else before them, and it's a real shame that everything before it feels very 'samesy'. They would've been much better served by mixing these up a little.

[Proskill]

oh god, crafting is so bad (not to mistake with gathering/refining). maxing out a crafting profession to 200 (except for cooking maybe) takes waaay longer than 1-300 in vanilla WoW there, maybe even up to 375 in TBC or whatever it was in wotlk. its just such a slow grindfest, that it begs to be monetized by boosters in the game shop, and whales will buy it no doubt.

NW somehow managed to make crafting even more tedious than runescape.

and why the fuck do mobs respawn so fast? i was killing the lost in restless shore to get to SCURVYHOOK, but ive been getting swarmed by respawns eventhough i was 5 levels higher than them. this shit is ridiculous.

[kenn9530]

oh god, crafting is so bad (not to mistake with gathering/refining). maxing out a crafting profession to 200 (except for cooking maybe) takes waaay longer than 1-300 in vanilla WoW there, maybe even up to 375 in TBC or whatever it was in wotlk. its just such a slow grindfest, that it begs to be monetized by boosters in the game shop, and whales will buy it no doubt.

NW somehow managed to make crafting even more tedious than runescape.

and why the fuck do mobs respawn so fast? i was killing the lost in restless shore to get to SCURVYHOOK, but ive been getting swarmed by respawns eventhough i was 5 levels higher than them. this shit is ridiculous.

Crafting in the game is where the best items are, so it needs to take time and effort to each 200 in it, the crafting is actually better than most games, crafting professions need to mean something or they are pointless.

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Yep. Even in classic wow(with EK & K) the zones changes and have variation, so does the mobs. Lots of different things to look at, several kind of mobs to fight.

This game will live or die on the new content coming. Those zones better be something different than the base game. A whole lot.

There is plenty of variation to the zones, there is a japanese themed zone, snowy, zone, normal zones, dark ghosty zone, a rocky fire zone and all have area changes for the different enemy zones, on a small island that is plenty of variation, plus we are only seeing a part of the island, MMOs take time to develop further.

there is a ton more detail in each zone in NW than even what WoW does in its tiny expansion areas.

[BeepBoo]

Crafting in the game is where the best items are, so it needs to take time and effort to each 200 in it, the crafting is actually better than most games, crafting professions need to mean something or they are pointless.

True or false: even if something is easy to obtain, if it is the most powerful, it means something.
This idea that things need to be huge grindfests of menial tasks to get good rewards kills so many video games for me. Korean mindsets can get the fuck out.

Skill should be the limiting factor for how much power you can obtain, not how much you can nolyfe a game.

"But people would get capped and stop playing because they're bored!"

Listen, if your game only has 40 hours of novel FUN gameplay and you don't have any repeatable game modes (think: league of legends) that are fun enough in their own right to keep players around, even when they reach the theoretical power cap, that's a problem with your game and you need to fix it properly instead of looking for easy bandaids to string players along.

[Edge-]

Korean mindsets can get the fuck out.

That has nothing to do with "Korean mindsets". Korean MMO's didn't even bloody invent insane grinds (combat, though it still applies in general), those have been a big part of western MMO's since the UO/AC/EQ1 days.

[crusadernero]

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There is plenty of variation to the zones, there is a japanese themed zone, snowy, zone, normal zones, dark ghosty zone, a rocky fire zone and all have area changes for the different enemy zones, on a small island that is plenty of variation, plus we are only seeing a part of the island, MMOs take time to develop further.

there is a ton more detail in each zone in NW than even what WoW does in its tiny expansion areas.

I gotta disagree on that. Yes, the zones are different, but they are also the same. The settlements are the same, the trees looks more or less the same, mobs are about the same stuff in each zone.

You cant honestly say the zones in wow looks the same though can you? I mean, look at SL. Do those 4 zones look the same? And I dunno about "tiny" xpac zones in wow. Imagine if there was no mounts in wow and you had to run all the time. Suddenly the game world is "big". Slap in a 100% ground mount or 310% flying mount in NW now, you would fly from south to north in a minute.

I agree that a MMO takes time to develop and as i've said hopefully future content only makes NW better, im all for it.

[kenn9530]

I gotta disagree on that. Yes, the zones are different, but they are also the same. The settlements are the same, the trees looks more or less the same, mobs are about the same stuff in each zone.

You cant honestly say the zones in wow looks the same though can you? I mean, look at SL. Do those 4 zones look the same? And I dunno about "tiny" xpac zones in wow. Imagine if there was no mounts in wow and you had to run all the time. Suddenly the game world is "big". Slap in a 100% ground mount or 310% flying mount in NW now, you would fly from south to north in a minute.

I agree that a MMO takes time to develop and as i've said hopefully future content only makes NW better, im all for it.

WoW zones are tiny and they become irrelevant very fast, the larger the map size you obviously have to copy and paste a little, there are more than enough tree variations in the game and what do you expect they are trees, NW is not meant to be fully fantasy, its fantasy in the real world in a sense and in the real world things look all the same especially if its all on one island, NW has more than enough variation currently, We has snow zone, dark zone, fire mountain zone, asain zone, swamp zone and normal zone, so thats plenty variation for now.

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True or false: even if something is easy to obtain, if it is the most powerful, it means something.
This idea that things need to be huge grindfests of menial tasks to get good rewards kills so many video games for me. Korean mindsets can get the fuck out.

Skill should be the limiting factor for how much power you can obtain, not how much you can nolyfe a game.

"But people would get capped and stop playing because they're bored!"

Listen, if your game only has 40 hours of novel FUN gameplay and you don't have any repeatable game modes (think: league of legends) that are fun enough in their own right to keep players around, even when they reach the theoretical power cap, that's a problem with your game and you need to fix it properly instead of looking for easy bandaids to string players along.

Crafting is meant to require effort to get to max level for the average player they may never even max out one profession, if its easy to get max level professions then everyone just runs around in the best gear and you get a situation like WoW where gear doesnt matter because its so easy to get.

NW has hundreds of hours of content currently and will only evolve further as time goes by. The legendery items just offer better perks and such which will increase a chars power so you can better customise your char.

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idk man. I don't doubt you, but I got to level 40 before I stopped playing as much and one thing I remember thinking a lot was that all the zones look almost the exact same, with the level 40 zone being a literal copy/pasta of the first light (iirc) starting zone. That was kind of a bummer for me, but I've yet to see all the 'max level-ish' zones (50+) yet, but with a world so small I feel like I shouldn't be seeing the same zone at all, neverminded already.

Its a small island currently why would the zones change so much over a small distance, the game world is losely based in the real world with the fantasy things thrown on top, even a whole country the looks can be the same in the real world, the high level zones are much different to the starting zones. Its kinda a stupid thing to expect in a game set in a smaller area.

[BeepBoo]

If you want a genre that says, "We reward you mostly for skill!" then you mostly just have to play something else. That doesn't mean you quit MMOs or anything, just expect different things from different games.

There are examples of MMOs that had different reward structures more closely related to my ideals, and they were successful, but no one bothers trying that any more. I don't think it's fair to say I want a different genre. I know what I'm after and there just simply aren't any games that appeal to me that fill the niche.

At least in classic wow, they want you to do the juiciest content to get the best stuff.

I'm not saying they CAN'T have alternative paths to get good stuff, just that MMOs always seem to misunderstand what the word "alternate" actually means. Asking me to do your most pathetic type of gameplay to progress after I feel like I've out-leveled it is a surefire quitting recipe.

[crusadernero]

WoW zones are tiny and they become irrelevant very fast, the larger the map size you obviously have to copy and paste a little, there are more than enough tree variations in the game and what do you expect they are trees, NW is not meant to be fully fantasy, its fantasy in the real world in a sense and in the real world things look all the same especially if its all on one island, NW has more than enough variation currently, We has snow zone, dark zone, fire mountain zone, asain zone, swamp zone and normal zone, so thats plenty variation for now.

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Well, NW zones sortof gets irrelevant to? Cant say i've been much in first light, except from farming for proffession stuff and you do that in wow to. So dunno what you are talking about. You have portals I guess? But the lower lvl ones gets irrelevant soon enough too.

I can live fine with NW zones looking a tad the same cause its a small world. But to say the zones aint looking very alike is just weird cause they do. Can it make sense cause its on a small island? Sure. Is it a bit boring? Yes.

[Fencers]

Well, NW zones sortof gets irrelevant to? Cant say i've been much in first light, except from farming for proffession stuff and you do that in wow to. So dunno what you are talking about. You have portals I guess? But the lower lvl ones gets irrelevant soon enough too..

Not sure this is valid. The lower level zones provide a lot of resources you can not acquire elsewhere in the same quantities and still need until endgame. The 'starter' zones are relevant enough many players level entirely to cap in these zones.

It's actually is sparse to see mid to high-level zones and areas with "questing" players. Because the game world isn't really set up to require linear progression through all the zones. Most of the mid-level zones rarely change hands due to this compared to hotly contested starter zones that see PVP action nonstop. Also many L60 players spend a lot of time gathering in the starter and mid-level zones.

Definitely not a strong design decision to push players from zone A to B.

[Cempa]

How do MMOs fair that do not allow alts?

[kenn9530]

Well, NW zones sortof gets irrelevant to? Cant say i've been much in first light, except from farming for proffession stuff and you do that in wow to. So dunno what you are talking about. You have portals I guess? But the lower lvl ones gets irrelevant soon enough too.

I can live fine with NW zones looking a tad the same cause its a small world. But to say the zones aint looking very alike is just weird cause they do. Can it make sense cause its on a small island? Sure. Is it a bit boring? Yes.

Low level zone never become irrelevant, you always need the resources from it, you also should do all yellow quests in every zone, there is more than enough variety in the zones, if you have yet to pass level 40 ish you have not even seen half the zones.

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The very first thing you do in this game is get ship wrecked by a magical storm and fight off a zombie while your captain is possessed by some Thor 2 red energy space dust.

But yeah sure, let's handwave potential design laziness for ''rEaLiSm". Don't mean to be rude, but you couldn't have given a worse answer imho. This is a video game and scenery is a big deal. Copy/pasting the exact same zone across the world map isn't a good idea.

NW is not set like WoW its not complete fantasy so why would the world be vastly different from zone to zone, the scenery is more than good in NW and plenty of differences, there is plenty of variations in the zones asthetic, ebonscale reach is pretty different to every other zone, same with shattered mountain and great cleave.

[Nyel]

There is plenty of variation to the zones, there is a japanese themed zone, snowy, zone, normal zones, dark ghosty zone, a rocky fire zone and all have area changes for the different enemy zones, on a small island that is plenty of variation, plus we are only seeing a part of the island, MMOs take time to develop further.

there is a ton more detail in each zone in NW than even what WoW does in its tiny expansion areas.

The ambient design is diverse. Everything inside this diverse world is copy and pasted from level 1 to level 60. Nobody is complaining about the zones, they're beautiful. But the content these zones are filled with is just always the same and pretty bad on top of that. New World's world looks fantastic.

About details I completely disagree. There's zero details in the world. Again, everything is copy pasted. Where games like WoW and GW2 are full of easter eggs and very nice details, New World has a complete lack therof. Ever went into a house in New World? They're all the same. Every inn is the same. Every city. If you think WoW has less details, just go into a house in both games and take a screenshot. In WoW everything is meticulously crafted by hand and you see that (that's why the art design is the only area that's always praised throughout good and bad expansions), in New World nothing, absolutely nothing like that exists.

[Nyel]

If your main toon can do everything what is the point of an alt though?

Immersion, roleplay, splitting tasks between characters... there are plenty of reasons. I'm not someone who has 20 alts, but... one? Maybe two? I guess alts are no thing because absolutely everything would be the exact same from 1-60 as the game has zero differences or progression paths when it comes to that.

[BeepBoo]

Crafting is meant to require effort to get to max level for the average player they may never even max out one profession

Having goals of just "dump x amount of hours into the game doing something literally a braindead monkey could do" isn't something games should be trying to get players to do IMO.

if its easy to get max level professions then everyone just runs around in the best gear and you get a situation like WoW where gear doesnt matter because its so easy to get.

Nope, like I said, if character power matters, it matters regardless of how easy it is to obtain. What you mean to say is "If everyone has the best gear it can't serves as a means to compensate for lack of player skill, nor as a long-term goal to keep people interested when they get tired of the gameplay loop if no new content comes out." to which I'd respond: "Good."

[Fencers]

thats true in almost every MMO though, at least it is in WoW as well.

I do not play World of Warcraft. Will take your word for it though.

However, it is definitely not true in many other MMOs. Especially modern MMOs that are almost all strictly limited linear in design.

[kenn9530]

The ambient design is diverse. Everything inside this diverse world is copy and pasted from level 1 to level 60. Nobody is complaining about the zones, they're beautiful. But the content these zones are filled with is just always the same and pretty bad on top of that. New World's world looks fantastic.

About details I completely disagree. There's zero details in the world. Again, everything is copy pasted. Where games like WoW and GW2 are full of easter eggs and very nice details, New World has a complete lack therof. Ever went into a house in New World? They're all the same. Every inn is the same. Every city. If you think WoW has less details, just go into a house in both games and take a screenshot. In WoW everything is meticulously crafted by hand and you see that (that's why the art design is the only area that's always praised throughout good and bad expansions), in New World nothing, absolutely nothing like that exists.

The zones in WoW are tiny and there is not many of them per expansion and they are not all linked to each other so they can be different zones, hand crafted stuff isnt better when there is not enough content to keep you playing.

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Having goals of just "dump x amount of hours into the game doing something literally a braindead monkey could do" isn't something games should be trying to get players to do IMO.


Nope, like I said, if character power matters, it matters regardless of how easy it is to obtain. What you mean to say is "If everyone has the best gear it can't serves as a means to compensate for lack of player skill, nor as a long-term goal to keep people interested when they get tired of the gameplay loop if no new content comes out." to which I'd respond: "Good."

The crafting system in NW is better than pretty much every MMO, it has a great deal of flexability by not requiring set materials for everything and a good crafter can make better gear than another average one even at max crafting skill. Everything in an MMO is a time sink and it requires plenty effort in NW to make the best items so they wont be common for a fairly long time.

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I haven't been to those zones (don't recall the names anyway) yet what level are they?

50 plus and those are zone you want to start grouping up more often in.

[BeepBoo]

Everything in an MMO is a time sink and it requires plenty effort in NW to make the best items so they wont be common for a fairly long time.

This is where I disagree. This is only true relatively recently. Plenty of examples in other MMOs from the past where things weren't a "time sink" the way everything is in current MMOs. You might have to bridge some gaps with some light grinding for an hour or two at most (wrapping up a level before going to the new zone, making sure you got enough mats to properly level skills if you didn't get enough during the natural flow of gameplay where the quests took you, etc).

[Edge-]

This is where I disagree. This is only true relatively recently. Plenty of examples in other MMOs from the past where things weren't a "time sink" the way everything is in current MMOs. You might have to bridge some gaps with some light grinding for an hour or two at most (wrapping up a level before going to the new zone, making sure you got enough mats to properly level skills if you didn't get enough during the natural flow of gameplay where the quests took you, etc).

uh...like what? Older MMO's like EQ1/AC were extremely heavy on the grind, in EQ that's simply how you leveled as quests weren't much of a thing until later, and even then they weren't the primary ways to get XP. You simply grinded shit. Same in UO, lots of grinding to progress different skills etc.

WoW was so notable in that it was the first MMO that really broke away from that in a big way and put a big focus on questing with good item/XP rewards as a primary driver of progression while leveling.

That's not even touching upon older mechanics that extended the grind further like XP loss on death that could straight up de-level you, or needing to do naked corpse runs or find a group to fight to your corpse because it was in the middle of the dungeon and you needed to get all your gear and loot back.