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  1. #161
    Merely a Setback PACOX's Avatar
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    The media coverage of this drives me crazy.

    I get making a joke about it. Dark humor helps you cope. But damn, remember someone died and that realizing you killed someone (without expecting or meaning to) is fucking traumatic. It will seriously mess someone up in the head.

    Then you stories and hasgtags acting like Baldwin actually tried to kill the guy or that anyone even knew the gun was loaded (there will be a negligence case though).

    I wouldn't want to be anyone who was on that set, that shit is haunting.

    Resident Cosplay Progressive

  2. #162
    You only point a gun at something you intent to shoot. Blanks or live rounds. You always assume a gun is loaded.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Corvus View Post
    From the reports it sounds like they were doing a scene where Baldwin was backing out of a church and drawing the weapon out of a holster. The first time was fine but the second it accidentally went off, just missing the camera operator but hitting the other two.

    Really not Baldwin's fault at all if he was handed a faulty weapon that went off by itself.
    He's at fault as the operator of the gun.

  3. #163
    I Don't Work Here Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Logwyn View Post
    He's at fault as the operator of the gun.
    I really don't know what you think you folks are going to achieve, pushing disinfo like this.

    There are plenty of cases where it's not the gun wielder's fault. If shoddy range security means there's someone downrange and out of their sightline. In cases where a gun fired at a lawful target ricochets or punches through material and injures another. And yes, movie sets where accidents like this occur, where the responsibility, if any, is going to fall on the armory team in the props department. And even there, nothing criminal may have occurred; we haven't had confirmation there was a live round, as far as I know, at this stage. A "bad" blank where the wadding remains together leads to tragic outcomes, but it isn't a case of negligence.

    It's a maxim they teach you in gun safety lessons, but it's not actually the legal or moral truth.
    Last edited by Endus; 2021-10-24 at 02:47 AM.


  4. #164
    is this not just a real shitty accident? i cant imagine alec would be held legally responsible, that would make no sense. there is no way an actor on set would be able to tell the difference between a live round and a blank, a blank and a squib, a blank and a faulty blank. there is no way.

    also all of this, "you dont point guns" or "assume its loaded" is just garbage in context. its a movie set, the guns are obviously going to be pointed at someone or something.

  5. #165
    Merely a Setback Kaleredar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Logwyn View Post
    You only point a gun at something you intent to shoot. Blanks or live rounds. You always assume a gun is loaded.
    That is clearly not the case for films and TV shows, as evidenced by any film or TV show where any person uses a gun. Of which there are several.



    At any rate, here are the thoughts of someone actually qualified (a film/TV prop master) speaking on what seemed to go wrong on the set:




    At no point does he say "Alec Baldwin should have made doubly extra sure the rounds weren't real" or "you should treat every gun as if it's loaded with a lethal round."
    Last edited by Kaleredar; 2021-10-24 at 05:18 AM.
    “Do not lose time on daily trivialities. Do not dwell on petty detail. For all of these things melt away and drift apart within the obscure traffic of time. Live well and live broadly. You are alive and living now. Now is the envy of all of the dead.” ~ Emily3, World of Tomorrow
    Quote Originally Posted by Wells View Post
    Kaleredar is right...
    Words to live by.

  6. #166
    Merely a Setback Kaleredar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vegas82 View Post
    @Kaleredar if his info is accurate then it sounds like there’s going to be some big settlements going out.
    I assume that it's accurate based on what's been made public about the case. So I suppose it's possible that the details will come out as being different (that it wasn't actually a live round and the round was thought to be safe and something was wrong with it/the gun, or the gun cart was watched at all times and the mistake was made elsewhere, etc)


    But again, at no point was the "Well Alec Baldwin should have checked each round and then not pointed a gun anywhere near a person" put forth, which seems to be the main sticking point of people trying to blame Baldwin in his role as an actor.

    Maybe that's what safety protocol is on a gunrange or when hunting, which I assume is the beginning and end of most of the gun experience posters on these forums here have for their little hobby. But it should be obvious from... watching any movie or TV show, ever, that that's clearly not how guns are treated on set. As gleaned from a guy who's job it is to manage such things in regards to TV and film production.
    “Do not lose time on daily trivialities. Do not dwell on petty detail. For all of these things melt away and drift apart within the obscure traffic of time. Live well and live broadly. You are alive and living now. Now is the envy of all of the dead.” ~ Emily3, World of Tomorrow
    Quote Originally Posted by Wells View Post
    Kaleredar is right...
    Words to live by.

  7. #167
    Merely a Setback Kaleredar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vegas82 View Post
    Closest to Baldwin being liable is his role as Producer. Which may well have involved hiring crew, including scabs after the walkout.
    Indeed. But that's not what they're going after.

    Because that would involve thinking about the situation and looking at the bigger picture and possibly learning about things in a way they didn't previously know about them, rather than focusing on their own myopic experiences and assuming that they're both important and universally applicable and by extension using that as a way to try and bring down a guy who mocked their tacitly-supported failure of a president.
    “Do not lose time on daily trivialities. Do not dwell on petty detail. For all of these things melt away and drift apart within the obscure traffic of time. Live well and live broadly. You are alive and living now. Now is the envy of all of the dead.” ~ Emily3, World of Tomorrow
    Quote Originally Posted by Wells View Post
    Kaleredar is right...
    Words to live by.

  8. #168
    Quote Originally Posted by announced View Post
    https://www.reuters.com/lifestyle/al...ay-2021-10-22/



    Not sure if it was an accident. It seems like the media is more concerned about the gun than the person who fired it. kek.

    I wonder if he had any firearm training?
    Just to let you know, that Baldwin is at NO FAULT here, no matter your hatred over him for shitting all over Trump for the last 4 years. The Assistant Director, that handed him the gun is the one at fault. Simple because they were filming without their props gunmaster there. These guns are basically real guns with blanks in them more than likely, and the assistant director handed the gun to Baldwin claiming it was a "cold gun" aka a gun with blanks in it, that wasn't properly cleaned, because it had something in it that was in the barrel that was turned into a projectile with the blank in the gun.

    So, blaming Baldwin is 100% bullshit.

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    Quote Originally Posted by muto View Post
    Hopefully he, and the person that handed him the gun gets charged with something. Simple firearm safety could have prevented this. If someone handed me a gun as a prop I would still check to see if it had live ammunition in it.
    The assistant director, sure, but Baldwin? FUCK NO. Baldwin is at no fault for this.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Thwart View Post


    How many firearms safety rules did Alec Baldwin break? Not an accident, but negligence .

    He should be charged with involuntary manslaughter in accordance with New Mexico law.
    Not surprising you don't know what happened either. Given your hot takes from the past, it is not surprising you don't know what the fuck you are talking about.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vegas82 View Post
    From what I’ve heard it was a non-union prop master who put a loaded gun on the cold wrack.
    It was an assistant director.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zeth Hawkins View Post
    Exactly. Calling this an accident is a disservice to gun safety and all involved in this incident.
    It was an accident though. But it is 100% not on Baldwin, as he was handed the gun by the untrained assistant director.

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    Quote Originally Posted by uuuhname View Post
    it wasn't Baldwin's job to check the gun.... how many times does this need to be pointed out?
    Thwart and the other right wingers, just want to try to take Baldwin down, because he spent the last 4 years shitting on their Orange Gropenfuhrer.

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    Quote Originally Posted by unfilteredJW View Post
    You’d be in here defending them.
    BIG OOF, but also, 100% true.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zeth Hawkins View Post
    So odd seeing people here compare Alec to a 9-year old.

    The instructor in the child-related incident is at fault for giving her a weapon she was not physically able to handle.

    Alec *and* the prop master are at fault here, as they both failed to execute basic firearm safety. As an adult, you always check the weapon yourself even if an "expert" says the weapon is cold.

    I doubt Alec will face charges, though.
    Amazing, YOU ALMOST GOT IT, but then swung wildly trying to blame Alec Baldwin. The assistant director handed him the gun, because the fucking prop master wasn't there. And I can pretty much guarantee that Baldwin isn't trained to check the gun before he shoots it.

    This is 100% on this assistant director.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vegas82 View Post
    Closest to Baldwin being liable is his role as Producer. Which may well have involved hiring crew, including scabs after the walkout.
    Just an FYI and everyone that is posting in this thread. It was the Assistant director that handed the gun to Baldwin.

    https://www.nytimes.com/live/2021/10...ting-movie-set

  9. #169
    Quote Originally Posted by Kaleredar View Post
    As others have pointed out, him checking the round and therefore interfering with the way it was prepared may have been seen as compromising the way a prop master set it up, therefore requiring the prop master to re-load the gun because it had been potentially compromised by the actor. To which you would then say that the actor should then check it again, requiring the prop master to check it again, requiring the actor to check it again, and... on into infinity?

    And regardless, it's really not expected that any person that's going to hold a firearm in a film has to go through some sort of training to know live rounds from blank rounds. Do you expect people playing pilots sitting in green screened cockpits to go through pilot training "just in case" the grounded aircraft they're in takes off?
    Yes, I expect an actor playing a pilot to do some pilot training so it looks more credible on screen.

  10. #170
    Quote Originally Posted by Specialka View Post
    Yes, I expect an actor playing a pilot to do some pilot training so it looks more credible on screen.
    Maybe we should have politicians undergo training so it looks more credible too. Otherwise you end up with people like the Groppenfuhrer.

  11. #171
    Merely a Setback Kaleredar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Specialka View Post
    Yes, I expect an actor playing a pilot to do some pilot training so it looks more credible on screen.
    That’s nice. They don’t.
    “Do not lose time on daily trivialities. Do not dwell on petty detail. For all of these things melt away and drift apart within the obscure traffic of time. Live well and live broadly. You are alive and living now. Now is the envy of all of the dead.” ~ Emily3, World of Tomorrow
    Quote Originally Posted by Wells View Post
    Kaleredar is right...
    Words to live by.

  12. #172
    Quote Originally Posted by Kaleredar View Post
    That’s nice. They don’t.
    And they should. At least, Keanu Reeves does some actual training with firearms for his movies.

  13. #173
    Merely a Setback PACOX's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by postman1782 View Post

    It was an assistant director.
    From what I understand there was miscommunication between the armorer (the person who would have been in charge of the gun) and assistant director.

    The normal situations, the armorer is in charge of the gun. They are the only one who checks and handles it besides an actor, who they directly give it when it needs to be used. That way they armorer can insure the actor gets the rights the right prop, theres no miscommunication, a prepped prop can't be misplaced or tampered with.

    In this case it seems like the armor had placed several guns on a cart. Why isn't clear. Either the production had been lapse on protocol or no one was supposed to actually touch the cart with the guns, something happened and someone ended up touching the cart with the guns.

    Either way an assistant director grabbed the gun they thought was a prop. Remember normal guidelines is that only the armorer handles the guns, but this production has had a lot of issues so we can assume not being professional is the norm. The assistant director grabbed the gun and called 'cold gun'. Alec Baldwin and everyone else on set would have then assumed it wasn't a live firearm but they had no reason to in normal circumstances. The gun was actually loaded (or not in a safe condition) and the accident happened.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Specialka View Post
    And they should. At least, Keanu Reeves does some actual training with firearms for his movies.
    They do enough so that their mannerisms look convincing. They don't become experts.

    Resident Cosplay Progressive

  14. #174
    Before filming each scene in the Fast and the Furious movies, Vin Diesel goes around and personally inspects the tire pressure on each wheel before checking the brake fluid levels and the steering column alignment. Sure, it eats up hours of precious filming time and costs the studio millions of dollars... but safety first, y'know? What's the alternative, hiring people specifically for the purposes of safety and expecting them to do their jobs correctly? Don't be ridiculous. Next thing you'll be telling me Sylvester Stallone didn't inspect the ring apron for structural integrity during the filming of the movie Rocky.

  15. #175
    Quote Originally Posted by PACOX View Post
    From what I understand there was miscommunication between the armorer (the person who would have been in charge of the gun) and assistant director.

    The normal situations, the armorer is in charge of the gun. They are the only one who checks and handles it besides an actor, who they directly give it when it needs to be used. That way they armorer can insure the actor gets the rights the right prop, theres no miscommunication, a prepped prop can't be misplaced or tampered with.

    In this case it seems like the armor had placed several guns on a cart. Why isn't clear. Either the production had been lapse on protocol or no one was supposed to actually touch the cart with the guns, something happened and someone ended up touching the cart with the guns.

    Either way an assistant director grabbed the gun they thought was a prop. Remember normal guidelines is that only the armorer handles the guns, but this production has had a lot of issues so we can assume not being professional is the norm. The assistant director grabbed the gun and called 'cold gun'. Alec Baldwin and everyone else on set would have then assumed it wasn't a live firearm but they had no reason to in normal circumstances. The gun was actually loaded (or not in a safe condition) and the accident happened.

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    They do enough so that their mannerisms look convincing. They don't become experts.
    Undergoing some training does not mean you have to become an expert, but to know how to act in a cockpit and in this case, check the ammo in the gun handed to you.

  16. #176
    Quote Originally Posted by Specialka View Post
    Undergoing some training does not mean you have to become an expert, but to know how to act in a cockpit and in this case, check the ammo in the gun handed to you.
    Do you actually know what a blank looks like?

    How would you be able to tell when loaded into a weapon?

    Do you know if he actually fired a real bullet?

    Do you know what (if any) laws/regulations apply to actors handling/inspecting the weapons given to them?



    People are talking an awful lot of shit out of their ass in this thread. They should probably stop before further embarrassing themselves.

  17. #177
    Quote Originally Posted by s_bushido View Post
    Do you actually know what a blank looks like?

    How would you be able to tell when loaded into a weapon?

    Do you know if he actually fired a real bullet?

    Do you know what (if any) laws/regulations apply to actors handling/inspecting the weapons given to them?



    People are talking an awful lot of shit out of their ass in this thread. They should probably stop before further embarrassing themselves.
    We are not talking about law regulation here but basic safety gun handling which anyone that had a single course about firearm know. And at least, if he had any course about firearm, if he had checked the ammo, he would have know that it was live ammo loaded and not blank (as blank do not have the "bullet" at the top of it). So it is clear that you should not talk about firearm handling as you have clearly no clue how it is done.

  18. #178
    Quote Originally Posted by Specialka View Post
    We are not talking about law regulation here but basic safety gun handling which anyone that had a single course about firearm know.
    So you couldn't answer a single question I asked. Pity.

  19. #179
    Void Lord Elegiac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Specialka View Post
    We are not talking about law regulation here but basic safety gun handling which anyone that had a single course about firearm know.
    Which is, as mentioned, not remotely the same as prop management on a theatrical production. Sit the fuck down.

    It's very obvious who here actually gives a shit and who is just looking for excuses to get snitty because Alec Baldwin made fun of Trump. Or in your case, who's here to be a contrarian nuisance that believes education and teaching are "different".
    Quote Originally Posted by Marjane Satrapi
    The world is not divided between East and West. You are American, I am Iranian, we don't know each other, but we talk and understand each other perfectly. The difference between you and your government is much bigger than the difference between you and me. And the difference between me and my government is much bigger than the difference between me and you. And our governments are very much the same.

  20. #180
    Quote Originally Posted by s_bushido View Post
    So you couldn't answer a single question I asked. Pity.
    So you can't comprehend how basic safety gun handling work ?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Elegiac View Post
    Which is, as mentioned, not remotely the same as prop management on a theatrical production. Sit the fuck down.

    It's very obvious who here actually gives a shit and who is just looking for excuses to get snitty because Alec Baldwin made fun of Trump. Or in your case, who's here to be a contrarian nuisance that believes education and teaching are "different".
    Not really surprised that a hateful person like yourself would make that political. Alec Baldwin failed to properly handle the gun if he did not check the ammo inside where it was given to him, basic safety gun handling 101.

    And yes, in my language, education and teaching are different word for different things.

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