[EU] Brexit negotiations at a standstill

[Mihalik]

It is not like they had many choices to vote for. You just have to realize it was different times and different goals at the time.

You haven't read what I said.

Making mistakes in the past is one thing, but boomers went from bad to worse.

They doubled down and escalated flocking to everything from deregulation, tax cuts, welfare cuts, wage cuts, homophobia, racism, fascism, climate change denial, being anti vaxx, pro war etc.

Whether one belongs to the boomer generation or not is the most likely predictor to supporting all the above lunacy.

Boomers are literally the single worst generation in modern history. They are the first generation since we started recording such things that has left a lower life expectancy to subsequent generations.

It's absolutely insane how terrible of a generation they are and just how much damage they have caused and continue causing to this very moment.

[dribbles]

What? If we rejoin the EU, cheap labour would reduce the wages in the UK? Are you suggesting that would push the minimum wage down? Because that isn't how it works. Are you suggesting that companies would employ foreign workers at wages below the minimum wage? Because that would be illegal, and covered by laws put in place while we were still in the EU.



No, it isn't. We raised the minimum wage plenty of times while we were still in the EU.



I'll agree with you on this part. Nothing in your response makes any sense.

Labour is a supply and demand commodity like any other. When we were in the EU and your toilet was blocked dozens of EU plumbers were knocking at your door to fix it for 50 sovs in the back pocket. Why would you employ a regulated and insured British plumber who properly invoiced yet charged a ton? You wouldn't yet now you must.

Of course unlimited supply of labour drives down wages making everyone poorer. They took our jerbs remember that? Now they can't, just as Brexit promised, delivered and as a result is a Brexit benefit.

[Mihalik]

Labour is a supply and demand commodity like any other. When we were in the EU and your toilet was blocked dozens of EU plumbers were knocking at your door to fix it for 50 sovs in the back pocket. Why would you employ a regulated and insured British plumber who properly invoiced yet charged a ton? You wouldn't yet now you must.

Of course unlimited supply of labour drives down wages making everyone poorer. They took our jerbs remember that? Now they can't, just as Brexit promised, delivered and as a result is a Brexit benefit.

Even if any of that would be true (it isn't), none of that has anything to do with where the government sets the minimum living wage.

Also, charming bit of toxic xenophobia you've got going on there.

[Veggie50]

Labour is a supply and demand commodity like any other. When we were in the EU and your toilet was blocked dozens of EU plumbers were knocking at your door to fix it for 50 sovs in the back pocket. Why would you employ a regulated and insured British plumber who properly invoiced yet charged a ton? You wouldn't yet now you must.

Of course unlimited supply of labour drives down wages making everyone poorer. They took our jerbs remember that? Now they can't, just as Brexit promised, delivered and as a result is a Brexit benefit.

You seem to confuse normal wages with the minimum wage. While normal wages are impacted by supply and demand, minimum wages are determined solely on “what a person needs to survive”.

The minimum wage rising literally means living in little Britain has become more expensive.

[Specialka]

You haven't read what I said.

Making mistakes in the past is one thing, but boomers went from bad to worse.

They doubled down and escalated flocking to everything from deregulation, tax cuts, welfare cuts, wage cuts, homophobia, racism, fascism, climate change denial, being anti vaxx, pro war etc.

Whether one belongs to the boomer generation or not is the most likely predictor to supporting all the above lunacy.

Boomers are literally the single worst generation in modern history. They are the first generation since we started recording such things that has left a lower life expectancy to subsequent generations.

It's absolutely insane how terrible of a generation they are and just how much damage they have caused and continue causing to this very moment.

And yet, we live better overall today in my country than 50 years ago.

[Mayhem]

And yet, we live better overall today in my country than 50 years ago.

and what country is that?

[Specialka]

and what country is that?

In France obviously.

[Mihalik]

And yet, we live better overall today in my country than 50 years ago.

Has it ever occurred to you that that's despite of boomers not because of boomers?

[Elegiac]

Has it ever occurred to you that that's despite of boomers not because of boomers?

It's also manifestly untrue, as the Gilets Jaunes and similar movements show.

Inb4 some anecdotal bullshit about how they're in the minority of young people that will be better off therefore that's true of everyone else.

[Huehuecoyotl]

Well would you look at that. An report from the OBR (I know, Brexiteers hate experts) that suggests that Brexit is going to cause living standards to drop by 4%:

Clickety click.

Just to make it clear to our Brexit loving friends here, this is actual evidence of the failure of Brexit. This is the point where you try to counter this with actual evidence of your own that Brexit is a good thing. Oh, and "of course it is chums, we're all so much better off" doesn't count as evidence. Wishing for unicorns doesn't counteract cold hard facts.

And our Brexiteer leaders running this government have just pushed our tax burden up to the highest level since the 1950s. You know, when we were trying to recover from 6 years of a world war. When we built masses of social housing, built the NHS, invested in our infrastructure. The best this bunch can do is waste billions on software that barely works to try and manage a pandemic that they've made worse.

[Veggie50]

Without quoting the new burner… I shoild really make a copy paste response

1) reports about empty shelves are coming from a multitude of places. Claiming its just one store and only asparagus is ridiculous.

2) true, the army has stepped in to provide a short term solution.

3) GBP keeps climbing, thats a fact. While this is awesome for imports, it will have negative effects on your exports though. Still, definitely not a bad thing.

4) EU citizens are indeed worried about British citizens. Especially the poorer ones, since the shortage of products leads to price hikes. Like I said earlier, reducing the problems to “its just asparagus” is gaslighting.

5) Entire supermarkets in the EU are empty? Source?

6) None of the above problems are CAUSED by Brexit, true. They are most certainly exacerbated by Brexit.

7) yup, we do. And with good cause.

[Calfredd]

And once again the Brexiter proves Huehuecoyotl right by not providing evidence and whose post only amounts to "of course it is chums, we're all so much better off".

[dribbles]

Great budget today by our Rishi, with a massive giveaway to the low paid only possible thanks to Brexit.

More money for the NHS, more money for education, more money for all public services. And the great thing is they have set themselves up to cut taxes just before the next General Election to secure re-election. Well played by the caring conservatives. It was truly a joy to watch this today.

Meanwhile in other news I must share this little nugget that tickled me today with you eurochums as publicity and support builds for Irexit. You almost couldn't make this up. RTE, the Irish national TV station, are reporting today that they receive 915m euro from the EU recovery fund, yet forget to mention the fact that they are putting in 18.7bn euro.

Guess what the difference is? 350 million euro a week.

https://twitter.com/irexitfreedom/st...82807408652292

I know someone with a spare red bus they can borrow to re-spray if they want.

I can see support for these people only build and build as the Brexit beacon of freedom blares loudly across the water...

[postman1782]

Great budget today by our Rishi, with a massive giveaway to the low paid only possible thanks to Brexit.

More money for the NHS, more money for education, more money for all public services. And the great thing is they have set themselves up to cut taxes just before the next General Election to secure re-election. Well played by the caring conservatives. It was truly a joy to watch this today.

Meanwhile in other news I must share this little nugget that tickled me today with you eurochums as publicity and support builds for Irexit. You almost couldn't make this up. RTE, the Irish national TV station, are reporting today that they receive 915m euro from the EU recovery fund, yet forget to mention the fact that they are putting in 18.7bn euro.

Guess what the difference is? 350 million euro a week.

https://twitter.com/irexitfreedom/st...82807408652292

I know someone with a spare red bus they can borrow to re-spray if they want.

I can see support for these people only build and build as the Brexit beacon of freedom blares loudly across the water...

Your fucking source is a fucking tweet? With no links? How fucking sad is it that you can't find a real fucking source?

[Elegiac]

RTE, the Irish national TV station

Ireland's version of the UKIP posting opinion pieces on RTE does not mean "RTE is reporting", rofl.

Can you go a single post without lying?

- - - Updated - - -

Your fucking source is a fucking tweet? With no links? How fucking sad is it that you can't find a real fucking source?

How sad is it that he doesn't notice it's all crusty English people in the replies, to boot.

It's almost as if these are social media disinformation campaigns being helped along by facile idiots. Shocker.

[Inuyaki]

I know that dribbles is a meme here by now.
But it still massively devalues this thread and makes real discussion not possible. Why is all his lying still allowed?
Can't we make 2 threads? One that does not care about reality so dribbles can post all his bs there and one where only real news are posted and discussed?

[Mihalik]

I know that dribbles is a meme here by now.
But it still massively devalues this thread and makes real discussion not possible. Why is all his lying still allowed?
Can't we make 2 threads? One that does not care about reality so dribbles can post all his bs there and one where only real news are posted and discussed?

Brexit has become one of those things that just cannot be discussed seriously anymore. Every "for" argument has been reduced to meme trolling at this junction.

But the meme trolling is an accurate representation of the pro Brexit position.

Dribbles is literally echoing the ERG, Boris Johnson, Moggs, Patel etc.

He also echoes the Brexit media like the Express and the Daily Mail etc.

Furthermore there's a surreal weird consensus in the rest of the British media to echo the Government's position on the alleged source of every single problem. Lack of drivers? World wide problem. (Partially true, made worse in the UK by Brexit). Food shortages? Supply chain problem. (Made worse by Brexit). Collapsing farming, fishing, manufacturing sectors? Pretend it's not a problem, some random patriotic bullshit. (Nobody fucking talks about it anymore). No chemicals to process raw sewage, having it dumped straight into the sea/waterways? Victorian Infrastructure. (No real discussion how British water hasn't been meeting EU standards for decades, which is why seafood caught in the British water needed to be processed and purified in EU countries before being sold, something that now had become full on impossible with the worsening water quality).

Thus on and on endlessly.

Outside the fringes of stuff like the Financial Times, which doesn't much give a fuck about the politics of Brexit per say, and is more focused on the financial fallout, and so called "left wing" publications like The Guardian, mentioning Brexit as a contributor to problems has become verboten in the UK. If you were to consume exclusively British media you'd likely be woefully ill informed of the realities of the issue as actual experts and statistical data simply goes unreported.

Britain has a serious information problem and Dribbles is actually very much representative of the opinions of the average Brexiteer. The only meme worthy part is his sheer determination to spam the talking points when most Brexiteers have long since retired to the comments section of the Daily Mail.

[Huehuecoyotl]

In the meantime, in the world of experts:

https://www.theguardian.com/politics...demic-obr-says

Yup. Brexit is going to cut GDP by 4%, while Covid is only going to have a 2% impact. We've chosen to do something voluntarily that's twice as bad for our economy as a once a century pandemic. In the meantime our Brexiteers are crowing about how wonderful it's going, and repeatedly suggesting (without a single shred of evidence) that it will lead to various other EU exits. That our glorious "success" will lead to a stream of countries following us.

I would say "you can't make this up" at this point. But apparently you can. And do. Because without making things up, or seriously misrepresenting them, all you've got left are the facts. And the facts say that every one of these global issues impacting countries are impacting us WORSE. Partly because of the incompetent way that the Tories have (and continue to) handle Covid, and partly because of the incompetent way the Tories have (and continue to) manage Brexit.

Inflation could hit 5% next year. And dribbles crowing about the Tories increasing wages (when we have yet to see how much they will offer, and how they will pay for it) is laughable. My bet is the public sector getting between 2-3% (i.e. still a wage cut) and the money coming from "productivity gains" (i.e. paid from existing budgets with no new money). Which will lead to more Council Tax rises, which means ordinary people will be worse off. Only after the experts these Brexiteers hate so much have dissected the budget will these details start to trickle out.

Oh, and we also had to give billions to the banks, to keep them competitive after Brexit. I've stopped keeping count at this point, but the £350m that dribbles is STILL whittering on about has been spent many times over now. If there were any justice the Tories would be heading towards an electoral disaster in the next election, but I've lost most of my faith in voters at this point. There doesn't seem to be any level of slease, corruption and incompetence that can drive people away from wanting to vote for them.

[Edit] I knew I'd forgotten something. Highest levels of tax since the 1950s. The party of low taxation has taken us back in time to a point where we were trying to rebuild an entire fucking country wrecked by war. And they STILL refuse to properly tax the billionaires and giant corporations that clearly has these fuckers tucked neatly in their back pockets. Why do that, when you can just bleed ordinary people dry?

Sickening.

- - - Updated - - -

Hey look, it's another one of those experts:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-59069382

Former diplomat suggests that the Brexiteers deliberately downplayed the impact of Brexit on the NI peace process. Because no price is too great for Brexit, as long as other people are the ones paying it.

[Crispin]

Great budget today by our Rishi, with a massive giveaway to the low paid only possible thanks to Brexit.

More money for the NHS, more money for education, more money for all public services. And the great thing is they have set themselves up to cut taxes just before the next General Election to secure re-election. Well played by the caring conservatives. It was truly a joy to watch this today.

Meanwhile in other news I must share this little nugget that tickled me today with you eurochums as publicity and support builds for Irexit. You almost couldn't make this up. RTE, the Irish national TV station, are reporting today that they receive 915m euro from the EU recovery fund, yet forget to mention the fact that they are putting in 18.7bn euro.

Guess what the difference is? 350 million euro a week.

https://twitter.com/irexitfreedom/st...82807408652292

I know someone with a spare red bus they can borrow to re-spray if they want.

I can see support for these people only build and build as the Brexit beacon of freedom blares loudly across the water...

I love how you gave up on Brexit "benefits", like shit in the water. Moved on to what an Irish Exit, in fantasy land would mean for Ireland. Even suggesting pulling out the bus with a massive lie.

We know, shit in the water, supply chain issues, export issues etc. etc.

Selling dreams are alot easier, than the literal shit consequences brexit gave.

[Mekh]

Brexit has become one of those things that just cannot be discussed seriously anymore. Every "for" argument has been reduced to meme trolling at this junction.

But the meme trolling is an accurate representation of the pro Brexit position.

Dribbles is literally echoing the ERG, Boris Johnson, Moggs, Patel etc.

He also echoes the Brexit media like the Express and the Daily Mail etc.

Furthermore there's a surreal weird consensus in the rest of the British media to echo the Government's position on the alleged source of every single problem. Lack of drivers? World wide problem. (Partially true, made worse in the UK by Brexit). Food shortages? Supply chain problem. (Made worse by Brexit). Collapsing farming, fishing, manufacturing sectors? Pretend it's not a problem, some random patriotic bullshit. (Nobody fucking talks about it anymore). No chemicals to process raw sewage, having it dumped straight into the sea/waterways? Victorian Infrastructure. (No real discussion how British water hasn't been meeting EU standards for decades, which is why seafood caught in the British water needed to be processed and purified in EU countries before being sold, something that now had become full on impossible with the worsening water quality).

Thus on and on endlessly.

Outside the fringes of stuff like the Financial Times, which doesn't much give a fuck about the politics of Brexit per say, and is more focused on the financial fallout, and so called "left wing" publications like The Guardian, mentioning Brexit as a contributor to problems has become verboten in the UK. If you were to consume exclusively British media you'd likely be woefully ill informed of the realities of the issue as actual experts and statistical data simply goes unreported.

Britain has a serious information problem and Dribbles is actually very much representative of the opinions of the average Brexiteer. The only meme worthy part is his sheer determination to spam the talking points when most Brexiteers have long since retired to the comments section of the Daily Mail.

This is an excellent summary and I'm quoting mostly for visibility.