1. #9661
    Quote Originally Posted by Arafal View Post
    ...Ok?
    I don't really know what to do with your response, thanks for pointing out the obvious?

    The point i'm making, is that the zone will not be removed from the expansions 'death' setting just because its First ones related.
    In fact, the opposite will happen as the place is literally made to be a focal point of the whole structure, hence its naming.
    If was just referring to the "visibly distinct" stuff that was said (by someone else I guess).
    MAGA - Make Alliance Great Again

  2. #9662
    Quote Originally Posted by musicallittle1 View Post
    There's totally going to be a 9.3, they don't want the bad rep that comes with scrapping another expansion early. They can also make 9.2 and 9.3 last as long as they need to for them to refill employee slots, finish the lawsuits, and move on. We don't want there to be a 9.3 so we are projecting, there have been exactly zero hints that there won't be a 9.3 patch.

    I'm still curious about the bwonswamdi (I dunno if I spelled that even close to right) frogs and the old dungeon being touched. I think those are our only real hints from datamining right now, plus the in-game text about what the new zone or dungeon will most likely be called.
    There's nothing that is scrapped.

    WoD was scrapped because they clearly promised raids and zones that weren't delivered and that's where the negative rep came from. The fact that there's a huge island where Netherstorm was that is closed. The fact that there is a huge city in the middle of a zone that is closed. No one would have complained if Faralhon wasn't shown on the maps or if Shattrath City wasn't presented clearly as a closed domed raid.

    They haven't promised anything in Shadowlands.

    In WoD we already knew which raids were scrapped and could have been a content patch; legit tell me what location in Shadowlands would be scrapped if it didn't become a raid.
    Last edited by Varodoc; 2021-10-27 at 11:46 AM.
    Expansion Storylines ranking:

    Legion > Cataclysm > MoP > BfA up to 8.2.5 > Wrath > TBC > WoD > Dragonflight > BfA 8.3 > Shadowlands

  3. #9663
    Quote Originally Posted by musicallittle1 View Post
    There's totally going to be a 9.3, they don't want the bad rep that comes with scrapping another expansion early. They can also make 9.2 and 9.3 last as long as they need to for them to refill employee slots, finish the lawsuits, and move on. We don't want there to be a 9.3 so we are projecting, there have been exactly zero hints that there won't be a 9.3 patch.

    I'm still curious about the bwonswamdi (I dunno if I spelled that even close to right) frogs and the old dungeon being touched. I think those are our only real hints from datamining right now, plus the in-game text about what the new zone or dungeon will most likely be called.
    They likely also don't want the bad rep that comes from making this a 3 year expansion.

    Either way Blizzard loses out, the question is just what they value more. Consistency in expansion length, or consistency in expansion release cycles?

    With WoD they already failed to have a full length expansion, so one could argue that Blizzard don't want to give the impression that ending the expansion on the second major patch was anything but a one time thing, and therefore likely to happen again.
    But on the other you could also argue that Blizzard want to show that they are ready to abandon a project if it clearly isn't working.
    Both options are likely. It's just a question of which evil Blizzard considers lesser.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Varodoc View Post
    There's nothing that is scrapped.

    WoD was scrapped because they clearly promised raids and zones that weren't delivered and that's where the negative rep came from. The fact that there's a huge island where Netherstorm was that is closed. The fact that there is a huge city in the middle of a zone that is closed.

    They haven't promised anything in Shadowlands.
    They have promised an expansion that won't end like WoD. And pretty much anyone seems to be in agreement that this means the expansion will not end on 9.2 or 9.2.5.
    The world revamp dream will never die!

  4. #9664
    Quote Originally Posted by Sondrelk View Post
    They likely also don't want the bad rep that comes from making this a 3 year expansion.

    Either way Blizzard loses out, the question is just what they value more. Consistency in expansion length, or consistency in expansion release cycles?

    With WoD they already failed to have a full length expansion, so one could argue that Blizzard don't want to give the impression that ending the expansion on the second major patch was anything but a one time thing, and therefore likely to happen again.
    But on the other you could also argue that Blizzard want to show that they are ready to abandon a project if it clearly isn't working.
    Both options are likely. It's just a question of which evil Blizzard considers lesser.

    - - - Updated - - -



    They have promised an expansion that won't end like WoD. And pretty much anyone seems to be in agreement that this means the expansion will not end on 9.2 or 9.2.5.
    WoD only had 1 patch worth of content.

    The sooner you people realize that Patch 6.1 would be considered Patch 6.0.5 by modern day standards, the easier this will all be.
    Expansion Storylines ranking:

    Legion > Cataclysm > MoP > BfA up to 8.2.5 > Wrath > TBC > WoD > Dragonflight > BfA 8.3 > Shadowlands

  5. #9665
    Merely a Setback Teriz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Banshee View Post
    I wouldn't get my hopes up for Tinkers just yet (I know how badly you want them, just like I want Dark Rangers). I got excited for Dark Rangers once because of the signs I thought I saw and ended up disappointed. There's been a lot more indications of a light/void expansion pack than there have been tinker stuff and dragons, though they could add elements of dragons in with the light/void main theme at the very least. I can't see them adding a new class again, but I've been very wrong before. If tinkers are a thing only goblins and gnomes should get it because it makes the most sense with them and not so much any of the other races save for maybe dwarves. That being said, I don't think the dragonling is hinting at anything. Anniversary pets haven't foreshadowed future expansions as far as I know.
    I'm still surprised that we didn't get Dark Rangers (or Necromancers) in Shadowlands. Seemed like the perfect time to introduce them, especially given the focus on Sylvanas.

    That said, while there have been hints for light/void, I don't think the community at large wants another cosmic expansion after this one. I believe that both Blizzard and the fanbase wants to move towards a more grounded expansion in 10.0. Also after we deal with Light/Void (where at the end we'd pretty much defeat the void lords), what would be after that? The game would be better served if we go to a new continent on Azeroth. Players would be happy whether that new continent is Undermine or Dragon Isles.

  6. #9666
    The big thing here is the release cycle. You get a new expansion every 2 years (give or take a FEW month, not 6+). Everything in between has to fit into these 2 years. And this is mostly because of money (player boost at expansion release, box sales), 2 years is about the fastest the WoW-dev-team can manage to do a new expansion and not be totally shit. If that would not be the case devs could say "hey ppl love this exp. and play a lot, lets extend it with another big patch and push back the next exp. 6+ month".
    Last edited by LordKharon; 2021-10-27 at 12:03 PM.

  7. #9667
    I would personally enjoy a longer expansion cycle, as long as patches came at a reasonable cadence regardless. It might give them time to tell an actual story, and give the players enough time to actually invest in the current systems before they're thrown out.

  8. #9668
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    I'm still surprised that we didn't get Dark Rangers (or Necromancers) in Shadowlands. Seemed like the perfect time to introduce them, especially given the focus on Sylvanas.

    That said, while there have been hints for light/void, I don't think the community at large wants another cosmic expansion after this one. I believe that both Blizzard and the fanbase wants to move towards a more grounded expansion in 10.0. Also after we deal with Light/Void (where at the end we'd pretty much defeat the void lords), what would be after that? The game would be better served if we go to a new continent on Azeroth. Players would be happy whether that new continent is Undermine or Dragon Isles.
    Of course the community wouldn't want Light and Void (the two biggest sources of power in the WC universe) but would love more gnome and goblin content.

    Naturally
    Expansion Storylines ranking:

    Legion > Cataclysm > MoP > BfA up to 8.2.5 > Wrath > TBC > WoD > Dragonflight > BfA 8.3 > Shadowlands

  9. #9669
    Quote Originally Posted by Varodoc View Post
    WoD only had 1 patch worth of content.

    The sooner you people realize that Patch 6.1 would be considered Patch 6.0.5 by modern day standards, the easier this will all be.
    It had 3 large raids and one large patch zone.

    Regardless though, people are not going to look at SL ending at the second major patch and then argue that this is completely different than WoD ending at the second major patch just because 6.1 was the most pathetic excuse for a patch we have ever seen. They are going to look at the patch numbers and say that SL objectively failed for the same reasons WoD did, that it had less major patches than it should have.

    This isn't about being technically correct, this is about being truthful or not. Everyone assumed that Ion meant that SL would not fail like WoD did by having less content than usual. He isn't going to salvage that interview by actually-ing the players with technicalities.

    If Blizzard ends Shadowlands ends at 9.2 then it doesn't matter if the developers come out and talk about how the expansion was always planned this way, people will see it as Ion flat out lying unless he says the plans changed because of internal problem and Covid.
    The world revamp dream will never die!

  10. #9670
    Quote Originally Posted by Sondrelk View Post
    It had 3 large raids and one large patch zone.

    Regardless though, people are not going to look at SL ending at the second major patch and then argue that this is completely different than WoD ending at the second major patch just because 6.1 was the most pathetic excuse for a patch we have ever seen. They are going to look at the patch numbers and say that SL objectively failed for the same reasons WoD did, that it had less major patches than it should have.

    This isn't about being technically correct, this is about being truthful or not. Everyone assumed that Ion meant that SL would not fail like WoD did by having less content than usual. He isn't going to salvage that interview by actually-ing the players with technicalities.

    If Blizzard ends Shadowlands ends at 9.2 then it doesn't matter if the developers come out and talk about how the expansion was always planned this way, people will see it as Ion flat out lying unless he says the plans changed because of internal problem and Covid.
    Okay then if you're only looking at patch numbers MoP was the expansion with the most content ever.
    Expansion Storylines ranking:

    Legion > Cataclysm > MoP > BfA up to 8.2.5 > Wrath > TBC > WoD > Dragonflight > BfA 8.3 > Shadowlands

  11. #9671
    Merely a Setback Teriz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Varodoc View Post
    Of course the community wouldn't want Light and Void (the two biggest sources of power in the WC universe) but would love more gnome and goblin content.

    Naturally
    It's not about Gnome and Goblin content, it's about lore rooted in classic Warcraft, not new cosmic lore dumped out by the current development team.

  12. #9672
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    It's not about Gnome and Goblin content, it's about lore rooted in classic Warcraft, not new cosmic lore dumped out by the current development team.
    But this is you we're talking about, I'm sure you didn't mention Undermine because you have a Tinker agenda to carry out
    Expansion Storylines ranking:

    Legion > Cataclysm > MoP > BfA up to 8.2.5 > Wrath > TBC > WoD > Dragonflight > BfA 8.3 > Shadowlands

  13. #9673
    Quote Originally Posted by Varodoc View Post
    Okay then if you're only looking at patch numbers MoP was the expansion with the most content ever.
    The subjective experience matters. Some will likely say that MoP was the longest since it had 4 major patches for sure. That being said, one patch being all but removed from the expansion probably means players forget that there even were 4 major patches.

    Regardless, many players see raids as the best measure of content. Specifically full length raids.

    MoP had many raids, not counting Terrace or counting it alongside Heart of Fear then MoP had 4 raid seasons. Just like pretty much every expansion.
    WoD had 3 raiding seasons, and if SL ends at 9.2 then it will have the same amount.


    Again though, this isn't a topic that will hinge on technicalities, this is almost entirely about WoD being considered the worst since it was cut short, and if SL ends at 9.2 then it will also be considered to have been cut short, and therefore placed alongside WoD on the pedestal of "failed" expansions.
    The world revamp dream will never die!

  14. #9674
    Merely a Setback Teriz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Varodoc View Post
    But this is you we're talking about, I'm sure you didn't mention Undermine because you have a Tinker agenda to carry out
    I mentioned Undermine because it's one of the original planned WoW continents that isn't in the game yet.

    Other planned WoW continents/locations were/are Outland, Northrend, Pandaria, Kul'Tiras, Emerald Dream, and Dragon Isles.

    Just saying......

  15. #9675
    Quote Originally Posted by Sondrelk View Post
    The subjective experience matters. Some will likely say that MoP was the longest since it had 4 major patches for sure. That being said, one patch being all but removed from the expansion probably means players forget that there even were 4 major patches.

    Regardless, many players see raids as the best measure of content. Specifically full length raids.

    MoP had many raids, not counting Terrace or counting it alongside Heart of Fear then MoP had 4 raid seasons. Just like pretty much every expansion.
    WoD had 3 raiding seasons, and if SL ends at 9.2 then it will have the same amount.


    Again though, this isn't a topic that will hinge on technicalities, this is almost entirely about WoD being considered the worst since it was cut short, and if SL ends at 9.2 then it will also be considered to have been cut short, and therefore placed alongside WoD on the pedestal of "failed" expansions.
    Ah okay, and if Shadowlands had a patch 9.3 with the same exact systems (systems that have already been overhauled in 9.1) and story it wouldn't be considered a failed expansion anymore?

    Of course, the wonders of magic and an additional patch. Because we all know 8.3 truly saved BfA in public perception

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    I mentioned Undermine because it's one of the original planned WoW continents that isn't in the game yet.

    Other planned WoW continents/locations were/are Outland, Northrend, Pandaria, Kul'Tiras, Emerald Dream, and Dragon Isles.

    Just saying......
    I'd ask myself why it's taking 17+ years to implement that continent, maybe it's just a dogshit idea.
    Expansion Storylines ranking:

    Legion > Cataclysm > MoP > BfA up to 8.2.5 > Wrath > TBC > WoD > Dragonflight > BfA 8.3 > Shadowlands

  16. #9676
    Quote Originally Posted by Varodoc View Post
    Ah okay, and if Shadowlands had a patch 9.3 with the same exact systems (systems that have already been overhauled in 9.1) and story it wouldn't be considered a failed expansion anymore?

    Of course, the wonders of magic and an additional patch. Because we all know 8.3 truly saved BfA in public perception
    Yes...
    I mean, this is basic psychology.
    If course players are going to take the shitty 8.3 patch and use it as "proof" that SL failed, even if 9.2 is a shining beacon of gameplay that adds enough content to make Shadowlands beat out BfA in the department of content added.

    This isn't about what actually is. This is about how it looks for a patch to end on nthe same amount of major patches as WoD, undoubtedly one of, if not the decidedly worst expansion Blizzard has released.
    The world revamp dream will never die!

  17. #9677
    Merely a Setback Teriz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Varodoc View Post
    I'd ask myself why it's taking 17+ years to implement that continent, maybe it's just a dogshit idea.
    So if Dragon Isles is the next continent, it would have been a "dogshit idea" because it took over 17 years to implement?

    What's the time frame for implementation to make something NOT a "dogshit idea"?

  18. #9678
    Quote Originally Posted by Sondrelk View Post
    Yes...
    I mean, this is basic psychology.
    If course players are going to take the shitty 8.3 patch and use it as "proof" that SL failed, even if 9.2 is a shining beacon of gameplay that adds enough content to make Shadowlands beat out BfA in the department of content added.

    This isn't about what actually is. This is about how it looks for a patch to end on nthe same amount of major patches as WoD, undoubtedly one of, if not the decidedly worst expansion Blizzard has released.
    I mean, WoD got double the votes BfA did in a recent thread in this forum asking which expansion they found the most enjoyable, but okay. I'm sure you have your trusted sources that confirm most players are indeed so braindead that they think "omg 3>2 so BfA > WoD naturally".

    Honestly, and I might be on copium too, I have some degree of faith in humanity and I think the average player has the IQ to understand that just because an expansion has more or less patches than another doesn't mean it's better or worse.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    So if Dragon Isles is the next continent, it would have been a "dogshit idea" because it took over 17 years to implement?

    What's the time frame for implementation to make something NOT a "dogshit idea"?
    Yeah I think the Dragon Isles would be a dogshit idea too. An expansion about dragons is going to be a bore because these glorified lizards are not interesting, at least in the Warcraft universe.

    Thankfully I don't need to convince you, just Blizzard, and there's nothing to convince really. Since Blizzard already said, after revealing Shadowlands, that they find the Light and Void to be an interesting concept for the future.
    Expansion Storylines ranking:

    Legion > Cataclysm > MoP > BfA up to 8.2.5 > Wrath > TBC > WoD > Dragonflight > BfA 8.3 > Shadowlands

  19. #9679
    Merely a Setback Teriz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Varodoc View Post
    Yeah I think the Dragon Isles would be a dogshit idea too. An expansion about dragons is going to be a bore because these glorified lizards are not interesting, at least in the Warcraft universe.
    Cool. At least your opinions are consistent.

    Thankfully I don't need to convince you, just Blizzard, and there's nothing to convince really. Since Blizzard already said, after revealing Shadowlands, that they find the Light and Void to be an interesting concept for the future.
    Hasn't pretty much every WoW expansion dealt with the light and the void in some fashion? We've even dealt with the Light and the Void in Shadowlands.

    That's a rather ambiguous statement.

  20. #9680
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Cool. At least your opinions are consistent.



    Hasn't pretty much every WoW expansion dealt with the light and the void in some fashion? We've even dealt with the Light and the Void in Shadowlands.

    That's a rather ambiguous statement.
    Oh so the Light and Void are rooted in Classic Warcraft after all?
    Expansion Storylines ranking:

    Legion > Cataclysm > MoP > BfA up to 8.2.5 > Wrath > TBC > WoD > Dragonflight > BfA 8.3 > Shadowlands

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