Who should be the next Warmonger?

[Al Gorefiend]

Jaina led a raid on Dazar'alor and then, one expansion later, is saved by the Horde people she attacked. She personally attacks the Horde characters who are then expected to free her. And all the Horde got for the fight was to have Jaina be described as injured by one NPC and then show up again in the next patch cycle.

All the bullshit can be explained away if you separate what the NPCs see you as how Blizzard writes them vs. how we see ourselves. They are never going to make any important story device have variable interactions based on our race because it's too much work.

Pandaren will be called funny-looking by inhabitants of Pandaria
Various NPCs will talk to an undead player oblivious to the fact, even in Maldraxxus they comment you look fresh and living.

So Zandalari Troll players rescuing Jaina is just a typical Tuesday around here.

I have alts so I just do the usual headcanon of filling in the blanks of which character did what if I ever overthink it

[VladlTutushkin]

My problem with Saurfang's rebellion isn't that he opposed Sylvanas. It's basically everything else about that storyline and what it meant for the expansion's premise. Gul'dan's betrayal happened, in a decisive moment near the war's conclusion and Vol'jin had been extensively antagonised and nearly assassinated, before he even started considering it.

His code of honor was extremely inconsistent, he gave up right away, tried to commit suicide several times, deserted his faction when they arguably needed him most, only only did something, because Anduin asked him to and only achieved anything, because plot decided Sylvanas suddenly has brain damage or something. That's real hero of the Horde material right there rofl. (I do have some leftover resentment over the unfulfilled promise of our choice having consequences given that they directly said it at Blizzcon stage.) Also there just weren't any stakes in it really, because Sylvanas's actions against the rebels were purely reactionary to their desertion, sabotage and/or treason, which means that their issues were basically "She is too mean to the existential threat we wanted to dismantle originally!" /facepalm

By Blizzard's own writing Alliance is not an "existential threat" to the Horde. Even during and after Dazar Alor Anduin intended on not only keeping Horde's independence if they lose the war but also allowing them time to heal and recover, as he said. Same as Alliance.

Horde meanwhile IS existential threat to the Alliance.

[sighy]

By Blizzard's own writing Alliance is not an "existential threat" to the Horde. Even during and after Dazar Alor Anduin intended on not only keeping Horde's independence if they lose the war but also allowing them time to heal and recover, as he said. Same as Alliance.

Horde meanwhile IS existential threat to the Alliance.

Ok, substitute the last part with "She is too mean to our irreconcilably hated enemies!" it still sounds fucking retarded. And has the modern Blizzard signature move of say one thing show something entirely else all over it.

[VladlTutushkin]

Ok, substitute the last part with "She is too mean to our irreconcilably hated enemies!" it still sounds fucking retarded. And has the modern Blizzard signature move of say one thing show something entirely else all over it.

Well shit, Tyrande literally got hit with the same thing. But she also was forced to "see light" and forgive the Horde again. Likely allowing Sylvanas to escape justice later on.

You have lost the plot entirely. Or at least lost the view of how Blizz write and frame it.

You are so willing to cherry pick things you think are beneficial for your narrative, but you dont see how those same plot twists and "writing methods" hurt it.

Its a chain of "what ifs" and "this is just bad writing" that while seemingly logical eventually leads us all the way back to the start of BfA where with good writing expansion wouldnt have existed!

Alliance wouldnt be dumb enough to expose one of their capitals like that, and Horde wouldnt have being dumb enough to bite Sylvanas lie without some investigation first. After all, she was notoriously mistrusted by the most of Horde leaders before.

Basically with a "good" writing BfA wouldnt have started to begin with.

[geco]

-Shandris and her forces are stationed in Feralas and were sent to Silithus with an army from the rest. (From the player perspective it is stupid)

More stupid is that without the army the Horde still has problems.

-Maiev hates Tyrande and generally does her own thing anyway. (Pretty sure her becoming a pariah and almost killing Malf is still canon too)

But even so it is she who calls us to go and ask Anduin for help to go SAVE Tyrande and they make her the leader of the army.
It's outcast enough that she's not in the beginning but not outcast enough for us to have a story of going to ask her for help, as we do with many other NPCs.

-Dreanei just had a huge campaign on Argus so they're likely depleted.

The Kaldorei too. But somehow they are to continue fighting on all fronts.

-Worgen have largely moved to Stormwind

Yes After the burning of Teldrassil that is especially clarified that they let them go earlier.

-Cenarion Circle operates outside the factions and has a lot more than Night Elves in it. (Just like Cenarion Circle)

But Tyrande can suddenly tell that Hijal is from there.
I mean. The troops that were in Hijal because they did not go to help as well. (I don't expect the Druid Tauren or Warguen to help. But all the Others do)

-Yes Mages and Warlocks would have been better than demolishers, but that's pretty minor, int he grand scheme of things.

Not really because they put you down more than once, I just needed to hold out a "little more" and they won.
For example, if Tyrande was with Malfurion, Varock did not take them by surprise and the war ended there with the Death of Sylvanas. (or so they describe it in a certain way)

There was a lot of Blelf and Forsaken involved in it too(the rogues we know for certain) so it's basically just Baine being left out of the loop, because she knew he'd go crying to Anduin. (Not only because that's exactly what happened when Garry went to Theramore)

It is still the army of Orgrimmar. Orgrimmar has all races in his troops.
The Kaldoeri weren't fighting the 6 races. But against let's say the potential of "2 races".

The Kaldorei never had a clean win against literally anything, when they weren't carried by firestorm wielding highborne.(Whom they did as much as possible to distance themselves from following WotA) WotA was absolutely catastrophic, WotSS was so catastrophic we still had characters giving shit to Malfurion during Cata, 3rd war was either watch archimonde destroy the tree or blow it up yourself(they never stopped anything, even with Cenarius up to that point), Cata they got rekt all over until Varian came to save them, with his Anime protagonist powers, Legion in Val'sharah was basically a rehash of the novel Stormrage, except Malf looked like a weak idiot and had the single most cringe moment in all of Warcraft.

Which gives you an idea that what Kaldorei Fans are asking for is not that difficult.


Back to the topic. The whole thing with the Kaldorei and all the lore in BFA is a contradiction so if it is difficult to understand.

Another example. The Darnei are tired of Argus and so they don't help.
The Kaldorei fought in Legion with their army alongside the Belfos. Then they suffered a genocide and still have troops left to go to all fronts, including sacrificing troops in Jaina's stupid plan and going to defend Los Tauren de Ogrimar.

How can it be that the Kaldorei after a Genocide can go to all the war fronts and the Alliance cannot? What are the Kaldorei? Helpless victims or an infinite army without limit?

All the bullshit can be explained away if you separate what the NPCs see you as how Blizzard writes them vs. how we see ourselves. They are never going to make any important story device have variable interactions based on our race because it's too much work.

Pandaren will be called funny-looking by inhabitants of Pandaria
Various NPCs will talk to an undead player oblivious to the fact, even in Maldraxxus they comment you look fresh and living.

So Zandalari Troll players rescuing Jaina is just a typical Tuesday around here.

I have alts so I just do the usual headcanon of filling in the blanks of which character did what if I ever overthink it

The problem is not that they have a dialogue by race. It is that you have Obligatory Quests that a certain race would never do.

That is, after blaming Jaina for killing the King of Zandalar (which by the way is really the Wolf's fault) Jaina should not be in a good relationship with the Horde for at least 4 expansions.

[Zuben]

Alliance wouldnt be dumb enough to expose one of their capitals like that

They would, if we equate logic from the real world. WW2's D-Day, the day Allies invaded Normandy, was the climax of a long-con they had played out prior. From Germany's point of view all intel they could muster pointed towards Calais as the location for Allied invasion, but that presumption was precisely what was intended. If you've ever heard of the saying "Loose lips sink ships", that's from WW2 era Britain where the British general (Montgomery?) appealed to the whole nation to watch what they're saying, so that the upcoming operation will be a success. As bloody as the eventual landing was, it would've been far worse, possibly even thwarted, if the defenses hadn't been focused in Calais.

Horde's misinformation campaign prior to their army's mobilization was effectively the same. Silithus is Calais and Teldrassil where they actually went.

[VladlTutushkin]

They would, if we equate logic from the real world. WW2's D-Day, the day Allies invaded Normandy, was the climax of a long-con they had played out prior. From Germany's point of view all intel they could muster pointed towards Calais as the location for Allied invasion, but that presumption was precisely what was intended. If you've ever heard of the saying "Loose lips sink ships", that's from WW2 era Britain where the British general (Montgomery?) appealed to the whole nation to watch what they're saying, so that the upcoming operation will be a success. As bloody as the eventual landing was, it would've been far worse, possibly even thwarted, if the defenses hadn't been focused in Calais.

Horde's misinformation campaign prior to their army's mobilization was effectively the same. Silithus is Calais and Teldrassil where they actually went.

They wouldnt. It was already talked to death before but Alliance knew that Orgrimmar was less defensible then Stormwind. If Alliance concentrates a large army in Ashenvale then it stalemates the Horde. They cant leave Orgrimmar undefended because if they move their main army to Silithus then Alliance will attack and either take or besiege Orgrimmar.

Orgrimmar where Azerite forges and industry is.

So yes, if Alliance was not full of morons they would have never assumed that Horde would march an army to Silithus through whole Kalimdor. Or they would have placed an army in Ashenvale preventively to threaten Orgrimmar.

[Aresk]

All attack on DA achieved was killing Rastatroll… Not much of a loss , and city wasnt even scratched afterwards.

Besides, she is the main proponent of peace with you, so you better be grateful she actually keeps flip-flopping to like you all of a sudden.

Why are you making this personal? I main a worgen and--outside of the dramatic shift of characterization between The Fate of Dalaran and Jaina's Resolution in 5.1--I've no qualms with Jaina. I was replying to a post saying Alliance would never be allowed to "shit on the Horde and have them then HELP US afterwards," and I was pointing to a place where we did. The entire Horde arc at the end of Battle of Dazar'alor accomplishes almost nothing: Gelbin is ultimately fine, and the fight with Jaina accomplishes nothing, so all they ultimately succeed in is protecting the port area from being damaged by an elemental. Removing the fight with Jaina, the final boss fight of the raid, changes absolutely nothing about the story aside from a few unnamed NPC deaths. Then, at the very start of the next expansion, those Horde players have to go in and rescue Jaina in the Maw and then again in Torghast.

One could also talk about the Night Elves claiming Northern Kalimdor and barring access to the Horde, only to have the Horde characters in Shadowlands forced to save Tyrande, but given that the first occurs only with respect to a novel and has no real mechanic implications in game (unlike Jaina and Gelbin surviving Horde attacks), I felt the BoD example was better for that scenario.

All the bullshit can be explained away if you separate what the NPCs see you as how Blizzard writes them vs. how we see ourselves. They are never going to make any important story device have variable interactions based on our race because it's too much work.

Pandaren will be called funny-looking by inhabitants of Pandaria
Various NPCs will talk to an undead player oblivious to the fact, even in Maldraxxus they comment you look fresh and living.

So Zandalari Troll players rescuing Jaina is just a typical Tuesday around here.

I have alts so I just do the usual headcanon of filling in the blanks of which character did what if I ever overthink it

Yeah, this is a good point. There's lots of ways to mentally massage the odd racial interactions in (maybe the Pandaria look funny because they dress differently than those who've been living in Pandaria). The issue with Jaina is that the Horde PC actually does go face-to-face with her at the end of BoD, and the character is essentially forced to go from trying to kill her to risking their life in order to save her. There're plenty of good reasons for it (the war is over, she helped the Horde, the Jailer is a bigger threat than the Alliance), but there's not even a mention of the previous antagonism.

[VladlTutushkin]

Why are you making this personal? I main a worgen and--outside of the dramatic shift of characterization between The Fate of Dalaran and Jaina's Resolution in 5.1--I've no qualms with Jaina. I was replying to a post saying Alliance would never be allowed to "shit on the Horde and have them then HELP US afterwards," and I was pointing to a place where we did. The entire Horde arc at the end of Battle of Dazar'alor accomplishes almost nothing: Gelbin is ultimately fine, and the fight with Jaina accomplishes nothing, so all they ultimately succeed in is protecting the port area from being damaged by an elemental. Removing the fight with Jaina, the final boss fight of the raid, changes absolutely nothing about the story aside from a few unnamed NPC deaths. Then, at the very start of the next expansion, those Horde players have to go in and rescue Jaina in the Maw and then again in Torghast.

One could also talk about the Night Elves claiming Northern Kalimdor and barring access to the Horde, only to have the Horde characters in Shadowlands forced to save Tyrande, but given that the first occurs only with respect to a novel and has no real mechanic implications in game (unlike Jaina and Gelbin surviving Horde attacks), I felt the BoD example was better for that scenario.



Yeah, this is a good point. There's lots of ways to mentally massage the odd racial interactions in (maybe the Pandaria look funny because they dress differently than those who've been living in Pandaria). The issue with Jaina is that the Horde PC actually does go face-to-face with her at the end of BoD, and the character is essentially forced to go from trying to kill her to risking their life in order to save her. There're plenty of good reasons for it (the war is over, she helped the Horde, the Jailer is a bigger threat than the Alliance), but there's not even a mention of the previous antagonism.

Are you really going to blame night elves for barring Horde access to whatever land they hold now after BfA? Seriously?

[Aresk]

Are you really going to blame night elves for barring Horde access to whatever land they hold now after BfA? Seriously?

I'm not blaming anyone. I'm trying to look at how things would appear to some Horde players. "We are forced to play a war we don't want, are penalized for being this faction by getting kicked out of our outposts in Northern Kalimdor, and then we have to go and save the military leader who just exiled us." I think barring Horde access to night elf lands makes sense narratively. As a Horde player, it's not going to feel great; being excluded never does. I'm not passing moral judgement on night elves. I'm merely pointing out that Alliance isn't alone in feeling frustrations with the way the game forces player choices.

[geco]

I'm not blaming anyone. I'm trying to look at how things would appear to some Horde players. "We are forced to play a war we don't want, are penalized for being this faction by getting kicked out of our outposts in Northern Kalimdor, and then we have to go and save the military leader who just exiled us." I think barring Horde access to night elf lands makes sense narratively. As a Horde player, it's not going to feel great; being excluded never does. I'm not passing moral judgement on night elves. I'm merely pointing out that Alliance isn't alone in feeling frustrations with the way the game forces player choices.

We have to stop seeing this as "Horde and Alliance" and start seeing it as a WoW player.
The whole thing is horrible no matter where you look at it. As an Alliance you don't want the Horde to come help either. (Although it really would have been better for Tyrande not to go out for this ending that is worse than the beginning)

After BFA we shouldn't be working together. At the most, fight each one on our side against the same enemy.

[loras]

We have to stop seeing this as "Horde and Alliance" and start seeing it as a WoW player.
The whole thing is horrible no matter where you look at it. As an Alliance you don't want the Horde to come help either. (Although it really would have been better for Tyrande not to go out for this ending that is worse than the beginning)

After BFA we shouldn't be working together. At the most, fight each one on our side against the same enemy.

That's the way it has been since the first war's demonic horde.

Honestly the Legion's second defeat at Hyjal was the first time any cooperation was shown to be possible at all, but for some reason people see that as a means towards EU-like cooperation between the two.

In that sense BfA was really good at reminding people what WoW is about, and why.

[Zuben]

They wouldnt. It was already talked to death before but Alliance knew that Orgrimmar was less defensible then Stormwind. If Alliance concentrates a large army in Ashenvale then it stalemates the Horde. They cant leave Orgrimmar undefended because if they move their main army to Silithus then Alliance will attack and either take or besiege Orgrimmar.

Orgrimmar where Azerite forges and industry is.

So yes, if Alliance was not full of morons they would have never assumed that Horde would march an army to Silithus through whole Kalimdor. Or they would have placed an army in Ashenvale preventively to threaten Orgrimmar.

Orgrimmar was considered by Saurfang to be less defensible than Stormwind, but it's still a fortress and they'll always leave a garrison there for defense. If all orcs needed to remain in Orgrimmar the Horde couldn't wage any war anywhere. Teldrassil was considerably less defensible and the skeleton crew they had was still quite effective at slowing down orders of magnitude larger foe. Either way, post-Legion Horde and Alliance were in a Cold War setup, so garrisoning a large army to Ashenvale would've raised tensions, which wasn't Anduin's will. In real world history such moves nearly led us to nuclear war, so if one aims for peace they don't do aggressive moves like setting up an army next to their opponent's capital city.

As to opting for land-traversal, it was my understanding Horde lacked ships after Legion was defeated, which is why Zandalar was so crucial (wasn't the plan to add Kul Tiras to the Alliance made after they became aware of Horde trying to acquire Zandalar's fleet?). So moving a large army within the same continent would need to be on land. Real world example for that too: Roman legions marched years-long campaigns in their conquest of Europe, hence why they became so adept at building roads.

Why Silithus? Because at the time it was the only known place to have major Azerite deposits. Both factions had small teams there already, but it was in their interest to take over completely, denying the other access. Out of what was left of Alliance fleets sending the night elves made the most sense, considering they were in general best positioned for it and had an established pit stop in Feralas. They'd be there before the Horde.

[geco]

That's the way it has been since the first war's demonic horde.

Honestly the Legion's second defeat at Hyjal was the first time any cooperation was shown to be possible at all, but for some reason people see that as a means towards EU-like cooperation between the two.

In that sense BfA was really good at reminding people what WoW is about, and why.

We still have to save Jaina / Baien / Tyrande / Varock Etc.
And more pj from the other faction.
I mean for example that in SW if you are Horde you do not interact with Tyrande or Shandris and only with Elune. That instead you go with Vol'jin and Browsvandi to do something just as important.

[VladlTutushkin]

Orgrimmar was considered by Saurfang to be less defensible than Stormwind, but it's still a fortress and they'll always leave a garrison there for defense. If all orcs needed to remain in Orgrimmar the Horde couldn't wage any war anywhere. Teldrassil was considerably less defensible and the skeleton crew they had was still quite effective at slowing down orders of magnitude larger foe. Either way, post-Legion Horde and Alliance were in a Cold War setup, so garrisoning a large army to Ashenvale would've raised tensions, which wasn't Anduin's will. In real world history such moves nearly led us to nuclear war, so if one aims for peace they don't do aggressive moves like setting up an army next to their opponent's capital city.

As to opting for land-traversal, it was my understanding Horde lacked ships after Legion was defeated, which is why Zandalar was so crucial (wasn't the plan to add Kul Tiras to the Alliance made after they became aware of Horde trying to acquire Zandalar's fleet?). So moving a large army within the same continent would need to be on land. Real world example for that too: Roman legions marched years-long campaigns in their conquest of Europe, hence why they became so adept at building roads.

Why Silithus? Because at the time it was the only known place to have major Azerite deposits. Both factions had small teams there already, but it was in their interest to take over completely, denying the other access. Out of what was left of Alliance fleets sending the night elves made the most sense, considering they were in general best positioned for it and had an established pit stop in Feralas. They'd be there before the Horde.

Not true. Again - simply sieging Orgrimmar and sending smaller team to Silithus would have being enough. Surround the siege with defensive fortifications to make an attack on besiegers harder from the outside and keep the Horde capital under pressure. Dragging an army by land from Silithus to Orgrimmar will take more time and exhaust the soldiers so they will be in no shape to immediately attack the siege, allowing Alliance time to reacts.

And again - BfA and War of Thorns was tailored by lobotomising every Alliance leader so you could have that magnificent triumph.

All this bullshit we suffering now is because of YOU. Horde playerbase “ate” WoW plot , so to say. Or rather Horde aligned devs who wanted to create this unforgettable victory that will warm their little hearts till the end of WoW.

[Ersula]

In that sense BfA was really good at reminding people what WoW is about, and why.

BFA ended with The King of The Alliance having picnics with Horde leaders in Stormwind Park.

The smartest thing they can do is make their time in the Shadowlands completely remove them from the politics of Azeroth: All the Peace Loving characters are all stuck in the Shadowlands, so take that opportunity to have them be neutral, figures who preach peace, while Turalyon & Lorthemar, who are unapologetic but benevolent warlords, run the factions.

I was honestly confused they didn't make Alleria & Turalyon neutral when they returned: Their loyalty to the Alliance was based on homeland, when they left Lordaeron & Silvermoon were in the Alliance, but now they aren't: So why pledge allegiance to a vague concept? But that makes more sense if they thought Anduin was too neutral to be the leader of the alliance & wanted Turalyon to replace him.

Edit: If Turalyon & Alleria were going to join the alliance, they could have at least let the Horde have those Kul Tiran pirates stay in the horde: But no, they all got slaughtered.

[Zuben]

Not true. Again - simply sieging Orgrimmar and sending smaller team to Silithus would have being enough. Surround the siege with defensive fortifications to make an attack on besiegers harder from the outside and keep the Horde capital under pressure. Dragging an army by land from Silithus to Orgrimmar will take more time and exhaust the soldiers so they will be in no shape to immediately attack the siege, allowing Alliance time to reacts.

You're just going to ignore the bit about not raising tensions during a Cold War? Taking over Silithus wouldn't be so, it's more comparable to Soviets in Afghanistan or Americans in Vietnam. Setting up a siege around Orgrimmar would be akin to the Cuban Missile Crisis. During Cold War you mostly fight proxy battles, leaving direct hostilities to a minimum.

And again - BfA and War of Thorns was tailored by lobotomising every Alliance leader so you could have that magnificent triumph.

All this bullshit we suffering now is because of YOU. Horde playerbase “ate” WoW plot , so to say. Or rather Horde aligned devs who wanted to create this unforgettable victory that will warm their little hearts till the end of WoW.

I disagree here, because as I established the premise that was War of Thorns had actually sound design to it. Misinformation campaign, red herring, the whole lot. It was good until the tree burned. From there on it was BFA proper: A shitshow no Horde player wanted.

As we went on with the story it was a whole lot of suspension of disbelief. "Nah, they wouldn't, not so soon after Garrosh" etc. Then the duel happened, Sylv killed Saurfang, called us poopheads and peaced out. The war was over, no repercussions, no greater plans for the Horde that would pay off all the humiliating, tone-deaf bullshit Loyalists had to wedge through. I don't give two shits that we marched on Teldrassil and burned the damn thing when it all amounted to this.

[VladlTutushkin]

You're just going to ignore the bit about not raising tensions during a Cold War? Taking over Silithus wouldn't be so, it's more comparable to Soviets in Afghanistan or Americans in Vietnam. Setting up a siege around Orgrimmar would be akin to the Cuban Missile Crisis. During Cold War you mostly fight proxy battles, leaving direct hostilities to a minimum.

I disagree here, because as I established the premise that was War of Thorns had actually sound design to it. Misinformation campaign, red herring, the whole lot. It was good until the tree burned. From there on it was BFA proper: A shitshow no Horde player wanted.

As we went on with the story it was a whole lot of suspension of disbelief. "Nah, they wouldn't, not so soon after Garrosh" etc. Then the duel happened, Sylv killed Saurfang, called us poopheads and peaced out. The war was over, no repercussions, no greater plans for the Horde that would pay off all the humiliating, tone-deaf bullshit Loyalists had to wedge through. I don't give two shits that we marched on Teldrassil and burned the damn thing when it all amounted to this.

Sending an army to Silithus with a clear intent to fight over Azerite there , and it WAS an intent, everybody knew Horde was not going to just "allow" Alliance to take it or stop grabbing it themselves. So even Anduin acknowledged that there will be armies battling each other. He was not going to continue "cold" war if Horde actually arrived to Silithus.

However the fact that nobody, not a single soul thought about using Ashenvale as a staging ground to threaten Orgrimmar and create a stalemate which WOULD HAVE prevented massive field battles... is just ridicukulous.

Horde here whinged and cries about Ashenvale being "staging ground" for Alliance to "attack orgrimmar" but it never actually happened in lore! Maybe it could have at least validated some of your assumptions.

And yes, there were no repercussions. Because they INTENDED NO REPERCUSSIONS. It was meant to be Horde's "fun for whole family genocide" holidays, you were meant to have that side tryst of burning the tree with whole populace on it and then move on as if nothing happened, being good (if misguided) sweel guys and gals.

It was your Christmas come early treat, a gift from Blizzard to you. A murderous romp without any backlash or actual heavy weighting consequences.

- - - Updated - - -

That's the way it has been since the first war's demonic horde.

Honestly the Legion's second defeat at Hyjal was the first time any cooperation was shown to be possible at all, but for some reason people see that as a means towards EU-like cooperation between the two.

In that sense BfA was really good at reminding people what WoW is about, and why.

Missed that entirely. So far BfA was about night elves being genocided, Alliance not caring about it and making peace and love with the Horde and accepting that it was all Big Bad Banshee and not poor wittle orcs and trolls.

And then in Shadowlands even night elves "get over it" and embrace peace.

Now... remind me please, where was that "WoW is about war" message? I think i lost it behind "renewal" being shoved down my throat.

[geco]

You're just going to ignore the bit about not raising tensions during a Cold War? Taking over Silithus wouldn't be so, it's more comparable to Soviets in Afghanistan or Americans in Vietnam. Setting up a siege around Orgrimmar would be akin to the Cuban Missile Crisis. During Cold War you mostly fight proxy battles, leaving direct hostilities to a minimum.

Note.
We are talking about leaving the capital defenseless. Without going more on DAY D. They weren't invading Germany. I was invading a random coastline that nobody cares about.

To give another real example. The Romans at the beginning had 6 legions. 2 who were always in the capital.

I disagree here, because as I established the premise that was War of Thorns had actually sound design to it. Misinformation campaign, red herring, the whole lot. It was good until the tree burned. From there on it was BFA proper: A shitshow no Horde player wanted.

+10.
Horde Players want a war with reason and Honorable. Do not cheat Civilians.
And I am almost certain that if the Alliance loses it wants to lose troops, not thousands of defenseless civilians.

Blizzard simply chose the option that makes everyone mad. (As he always does and that is why he is getting worse and worse)

[Feanoro]

PvP was usually dominated by the Aliance thanks to the racials being better suited for that, while Horde got the better ones for raids and such. Doesn't really relate to the story tho /shrug (They're still trying to make wow pvp an esport lol)

At the risk of that particular can of worms, the game is raiding. Everything leads up to it, systems and stories. EMFH was only added in Wrath because Alliance pvp was all but dead before then. Even then, that was for one race (effectively locking out entire classes from "serious" pvp), while every Horde race had something good.