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  1. #541
    probably not that hard to find talent. unless they intend to have every position 50/50.
    biggest hurdle would probably be to make themselves attractive enough that people want to work there.
    i don't really know how it's looking with their competion.
    I had fun once, it was terrible.

  2. #542
    Reforged Gone Wrong The Stormbringer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ajko View Post
    me, my wife and our daughter live in a foreign country. it can be said that we have been pretty much isolated since her birth. we don't have cable TV, we don't watch media. my wife's sister has a son one year older than our daughter. she sent us clothes and toys in packages after him. in addition, we bought both neutral and girls' clothing. we let our daughter pick clothes from the closet and watch what she likes. what colors, what type of clothes. when it comes to toys, most are neutral. she does not explicitly have dolls or toy cars. the only contact with the family is (unfortunately so far) exclusively through messenger calls, and as it may affect the daughter, it's hard to say, but it probably won't be much.

    my wife and I aren't trying to be some form of alternative parent, we just agreed to let our daughter express herself the way she wants to (I hope it lasts).
    In that case then I would say there's certainly a lot less bias in things. I'm not sure if I can call it completely unbiased, but if all that you're saying is correct, then you might be onto something. Or maybe not. I'd love to see a study on it.

    That said, it sounds like you two are being really good parents. I wish the best for all of you!

  3. #543
    Quote Originally Posted by The Stormbringer View Post
    In that case then I would say there's certainly a lot less bias in things. I'm not sure if I can call it completely unbiased, but if all that you're saying is correct, then you might be onto something. Or maybe not. I'd love to see a study on it.

    That said, it sounds like you two are being really good parents. I wish the best for all of you!
    thanks, we are really trying,and i hope in a good way.
    even bad parents may think they are doing the best for the child? I'm a little worried about that

  4. #544
    Merely a Setback FelPlague's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kumorii View Post
    Same reason? Minimum wage is to prevent slave wages... What CEO salary is considered slave wages? Do CEO risk being paid to little even? What even is to little for a CEO?
    Some jobs have specific legal min wages.
    Quote Originally Posted by WowIsDead64 View Post
    Remove combat, Mobs, PvP, and Difficult Content

  5. #545
    Quote Originally Posted by Utrrabbit View Post
    Difference between not agreeing with someone, and you blatently stating something that is racist.

    I appreciate you pointing out a typo while I am on my phone, but than start your reply with wordinf thar literally makes no sense.
    Just keep going with the whole "You're a racist!" at anyone who disagrees with your narrow mindset. Keep shining that virtue signal, no matter how much you have to lie, exaggerate. Whatever keeps you from actually thinking things through. I'm sure it will get you far in life.

  6. #546
    Quote Originally Posted by Jester Joe View Post
    You're listing off their skills and experience and trying to mix that into qualifications.

    Someone can be qualified for a position, but less skilled than another. There's a reason why qualifications and skills preferred are usually separated on job listings.
    You literally do not understand the term equally qualified and it's actually amazing how far you are willing to go to defend absolute nonsense.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by MrLachyG View Post
    Is that actually how it works though? Would they hire someone with no qualifications straight out of high school over someone with a degree? No, of course not.

    They also can’t discriminate, obviously, but they still can increase how many women are on their workforce by doing things listed here: https://www.shrm.org/resourcesandtoo...ty-goals-.aspx
    Not creating a user login to read that but any hiring process that takes race sexual orientation or gender into consideration is inherently discriminatory no matter how it's dressed up

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Hellobolis View Post
    That's actually a thing for the average person? I can totally see it in higher up management positions and the like, but for a normal person with a normal job?
    It's not if anything it's the opposite at this point. Especially in tech you will be legitimately headhunted if you are a non asian minority or a woman.

  7. #547
    Quote Originally Posted by deenman View Post
    what a surprise when you live in a patriarchy that tells women their role is housekeeping and raising kids,its amazing women have had a hard time getting in to these spaces
    Be nice if people had such commitment to say the same about blue collar jobs... :V

  8. #548
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raelbo View Post
    I would rather that when medical schools take in new students they don't arbitrarily exclude a significant portion of the population, and thus some of those with the best potential, simply because society gave an unfair advantage to other groups. This way, by the time these people advance to the position of senior surgeon, they will be the best of everyone instead of the best of half of everyone.
    I agree, that is where the change needs to happen, but that is a whole different subject. You can't hold potential employers responsible for the failings of a different industry.


    Quote Originally Posted by Raelbo View Post
    This is absolutely true. However it does point to a problem within the industry that should be addressed. Also, as those who like to keep pointing this out tend to ignore, Blizzard isn't aiming to achieve a diversity in their workforce that is out of line with what is available in the industry. They're aiming to reach 35% female staff within 5 years. Secondly, they're actively committing to help to improve the number of females in the industry through their training programs.
    I understand what you are saying but I don't know if I would call it a problem with the industry, because if that is the case it is a problem with many, if not all industries which seems to me to be more of a societal problem. The gaming industry is a male-dominated profession, but Childcare is a female-dominated profession. Society needs to start teaching people that you can do any job that you want without discrimination.


    Quote Originally Posted by Raelbo View Post
    Given the facts that we know, eg 77% of Blizzard employees are male; their recently exposed "fratboy culture", it is not unreasonable to consider the distinct possibility that, as an organisation, they had a strong bias towards hiring males.
    I really don't want to believe that Mike Morhaime and co fostered that type of environment, but given the current situation it really is the only possibility. This comes back to my idea of audits, if instead of the government and society just telling Blizzard it is undiverse and needs to hire x more women, they did annual audits going through CV's/application forms maybe even recorded interviews and gave out fines/sanctions, maybe companies would think twice about it.


    Quote Originally Posted by Raelbo View Post
    I don't think that Blizzard would be pursuing this latest path if the answers to those questions didn't point to problems.

    For example: If they had 77% male staff due to a lack of female applicants, they need to understand why female applicants are avoiding applying to Blizzard (I refer to the "fratboy culture" already mentioned). By fixing their reputation as being a work environment hostile to female employees, Blizzard would end up getting more females to apply. Also, by actively marketing to females in the industry, Blizzard could also attract more applicants. With more female applicants it is only natural that more of the "best" candidates would be female.

    Example 2: If the industry lacks female talent, take proactive steps to address this.
    I don't think the lack of female employees is about reputation, to be honest, up until this case began Blizzard didn't have these image problems to deter female applicants, in this instance it is more likely a mixture of less females applied and those that did were probably passed over due to interviewer/management bias.

    Again, I don't think it is any individual companies responsibility to increase diversity in their industry.


    Quote Originally Posted by Raelbo View Post
    The two are not mutually exclusive. You're actually far more likely to acquire the best skills if you're hiring from the entire talent pool. I completely agree that diversity quotas shouldn't dictate who gets hired. They should push companies to pursue talent across the spectrum of race, gender etc.

    If we're being honest, the notion that 77% of the world's talent for making great games resides in males is BS. The fact that 77% of their workforce is male points to the fact that they've been remiss in tapping into the female talent that is out there.
    But again, diversity quotas should not be a thing. Who has the right to tell an employer that they should have x% male employees and x %female, and of those x% should be gay, x% should be black and x% should be over 40? The only thing that we should be ensuring is that everyone is being treated equally throughout the recruitment process. A lack of people from 1 background or another does not necessarily make a company bad or wrong, sometimes it is just the way it is.

    Quote Originally Posted by MrLachyG View Post
    Is that actually how it works though? Would they hire someone with no qualifications straight out of high school over someone with a degree? No, of course not.
    Not sure what you are getting at? I never said anything about this?

    Quote Originally Posted by MrLachyG View Post
    They also can’t discriminate, obviously, but they still can increase how many women are on their workforce by doing things listed here: https://www.shrm.org/resourcesandtoo...ty-goals-.aspx
    I'm not signing up to some random site to read an article a stranger on the internet recommended. But again, it comes back to increasing diversity in a company just because it looks good, that's not good for any business. It is not the responsibility of any specific employer in any industry to actively improve diversity within their industry, that's on the education system and the general populace to change opinions. If a company is hiring correctly without bias and they still have an undiverse workforce, you can't blame them for that and you can't demand that they hire more people to compensate either.
    Quote Originally Posted by Zarc View Post
    The Horde is the West, the Allies are the Soviets (kind of makes more sense the other way around, but I'm Horde and I didn't want to be the commies in this metaphor.. For the Horde!) and the Legion are the Nazis.
    Quote Originally Posted by Masark View Post
    A person who is saying "You need a good guy with a gun to stop a bad guy with a gun" sounds like someone who wants to sell 2 guns.

  9. #549
    Quote Originally Posted by Xath View Post
    You literally do not understand the term equally qualified and it's actually amazing how far you are willing to go to defend absolute nonsense.
    I just gave you an exact example but okay, keep shoving your head in the sand.

    All of this started off of the weirdest excuse of "NO ONE'S GONNA BE EQUALLY SKILLED THOUGH!" which is quite a silly claim/argument anyway.

  10. #550
    Quote Originally Posted by Sialina View Post
    Oh, so you are a racist, I get it.

    Tell me how you are going to suck the bosses dick with blind hiring? Come on, at least think before you let your fingers hit they keyboard.

    I also didn't say anything about white men, you did, maybe you think you can tell women and others what to do? The racism of low expectations on full display here.

    I've seen how your great diversity initiatives tend to work, for example I need higher average grades to get into most schools because I'm Asian if I go to your country, how does that not equal letting people with lower grades take the same spots an Asian person with higher grades could've had?

    Cut it out with your white superiority narrative, it's sickening.
    You really just don’t know what you’re talking about. You apparently don’t know what “racism” means much less the long term effects of systemic discrimination. “Blind hiring” isn’t bad in and of itself but it completely ignores the issues that generations of discriminatory practices have caused.

  11. #551
    Quote Originally Posted by Adamas102 View Post
    You really just don’t know what you’re talking about. You apparently don’t know what “racism” means much less the long term effects of systemic discrimination. “Blind hiring” isn’t bad in and of itself but it completely ignores the issues that generations of discriminatory practices have caused.
    There is no "systemic" discrimination. Unless you count SocJus "diversity" mandates like this, of course. Jim Crow is dead, get over it. Also, great job "whitesplaining" to an Asian woman, you racist.
    Last edited by Darth Vowrawn; 2021-10-29 at 07:27 PM.

  12. #552
    Quote Originally Posted by Adamas102 View Post
    You really just don’t know what you’re talking about. You apparently don’t know what “racism” means much less the long term effects of systemic discrimination. “Blind hiring” isn’t bad in and of itself but it completely ignores the issues that generations of discriminatory practices have caused.
    Lets solve that by adding reverse discrimination, great plan. You might not be as smart as you think, as you proved when you thought you could suck someone's dick during a blind hiring test.

  13. #553
    Quote Originally Posted by Jester Joe View Post
    I just gave you an exact example but okay, keep shoving your head in the sand.

    All of this started off of the weirdest excuse of "NO ONE'S GONNA BE EQUALLY SKILLED THOUGH!" which is quite a silly claim/argument anyway.
    Hey it's okay you don't understand I get it.

  14. #554
    Quote Originally Posted by Xath View Post
    Hey it's okay you don't understand I get it.
    You realize when you had to stoop to insults and ridicule you basically admit that you're in the wrong...right?

    But moving on from this anyway, because it's pretty clear you're not going to accept the definition of qualification, and have an agenda to push here.

  15. #555
    Quote Originally Posted by Jester Joe View Post
    You realize when you had to stoop to insults and ridicule you basically admit that you're in the wrong...right?

    But moving on from this anyway, because it's pretty clear you're not going to accept the definition of qualification, and have an agenda to push here.
    Refusing to pound your head into a brick wall isn't admitting you are in the wrong.

  16. #556
    Had to stop reading all the comments after 2 pages. Same response over and over, "Most qualified should always get hired!". As if every job opening will only have 2 people applying and their applications are just a single number that tells the company who is best overall. Depending on the position, there could be dozens of applications with many being equally qualified on paper.

  17. #557
    Quote Originally Posted by deenman View Post
    are you impying women or non binary people dont have skills for the job? wow dude...wow
    I can not speak for him but for myself. I‘m opposed to quotas in most cases because the math simply is wrong. First of all: How many male/female/diverse white/colored developers, office people, etc are out there. Let’s say the average „talent score“ of all these groups is the same, but there is more male white developers out there than white female developers. Like 70/30% - if you still hire 50/50%? That would discriminate that white male. And if those male developers where people of color? What if you had 100 straight male developers with 4 a subgroup of 4 outstanding ones competing with 3 „diverse“ ones (one that outshines them all, one average one and a complete failure). Would you still follow the quota even though the decision might lead to a mediocre product? People - regardless of background, sex, color of skin, religion should be hired based on their talent and not because of some stupid quota that doesn’t even match demographics.
    I‘m a white male working in a company with at least 70% woman of diverse ethnic backgrounds on all levels of the hierarchy. They where not hired because they fulfilled some quota, but because in my field of research there are more women. I don‘t feel harrased or threatend because of that, because I don‘t work in a toxic environment.
    Our CEO and owner is actually a nice guy, who treats people with respect and unlike Bobby K. he doesn’t need to make a big announcement because he first grabbed 100 million bucks without shame to later of to work for „minimum wage“ for an undefined amount of time. Why? Because my CEO doesen‘t take that money in the first place…

  18. #558
    Quote Originally Posted by Fubar2323 View Post
    Had to stop reading all the comments after 2 pages. Same response over and over, "Most qualified should always get hired!". As if every job opening will only have 2 people applying and their applications are just a single number that tells the company who is best overall. Depending on the position, there could be dozens of applications with many being equally qualified on paper.
    Sure, dozens of "equally qualified", but the deciding factor is a quota % that needs to be filled. More so, setting a quota will require hiring of said quota, i can already imagine the ad. "Wanna work for blizzard? Are you non-white or non-male? APPLY NOW", which is a form of discrimination on itself.

    I'm all for diverse recruitment, be it race, gender, identity, whatever, but quotas are a bad way to go about it.

  19. #559
    Elemental Lord callipygoustp's Avatar
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    Having been part of the hiring process for various development teams over the past 20-25 years, one thought comes to mind "good fucking luck."

    You can't hire diversity if diversity isn't applying for the jobs; in particular applicants with the necessary skills. In several of the cases I was involved in, while there was a push for diversity and we did get "diverse" applicants, applicants were still required to have the necessary skills/skill level: Too often they didn't/don't.

  20. #560
    Quote Originally Posted by hulkgor View Post
    I'm all for diverse recruitment, be it race, gender, identity, whatever, but quotas are a bad way to go about it.
    Exactly. The only true equality is UNDER THE LAW, where people should be judged by their own talents and virtues, not their gender, ethnicity, identity, or sexual orientation.

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