[Megathread] Amazon's New World MMO

[sensei]

To be fair it's the Internet, people go "lol ded gaem" at WoW if a new mount is a shade of color they don't like. Hyperbole acts as an outlet and draws attention.

Yeah I mean, I still recall them declaring PC gaming dead sometime around 1997. And that was before social media was even a thing.

[Edge-]

So you making excuses for Amazon is not simping, gotcha.

I've made no excused. They're shitting the bed. The company fucked up the leadership of their game division by putting someone in charge, in a strong top-down structure, who had no clue what they were doing. Devs were absolutely boned as a result (see the Twitter thread I linked earlier), but the game is still increasingly broken.

When will we start thanking Bioware for Anthem? Even tho it was a garbage fire, making games is hard, yknow, so, good boiz did their best let's love it together.

Pointing out that making games is hard isn't "simping" for anyone, that's a reality. It is hard, and if you speak with any developer - even if they've cranked out banger after banger - they'll tell you the exact same thing.

I don't care if you like New World. If all you need for an MMO is watching the digital sun shine through the trees then so be it.
I can objectively agree that the graphics are nice.
But everything else? Nah.

Cool, not sure where you got this from outside of making it up.

I enjoy exploring. I enjoy harvesting and crafting. I mostly enjoy the combat. I don't play a ton (I'm still mid level) because I don't want to play a ton, it's a nice side game for me to chill in and just go fishing or spend time doing some faction quests or farming mats. I'm not looking for a relationship in game, especially one I'm not paying a sub for, I'm just lookin to have some casual fun.

See, the issue is not that you like something that is objectively a trash pile. Tik Tok also exists. People can like whatever they want.
The issue is that you try to excuse incompetence. Especially incompetence in a field where all these issues were figured out and fixed a decade ago.

Yet people are willing to excuse this abomination for an MMO like their life depended on it.

Literally nobody is excusing it in this thread, so I'm not sure if you're daydreaming a little to realistically or if you're reading this somewhere else.

[Puupi]

I attribute all this behaviour to desperation.

I hope Riot actually knows their shit with their MMO.

Clinging to the hope of Riot actually working on an MMORPG is also desperation. I'm 99,9% sure their project isn't an MMORPG. And any multiplayer game with more than 10 players can basically call themselves MMO. Probably just another lobbyshooter or something like that.

[Edge-]

Clinging to the hope of Riot actually working on an MMORPG is also desperation. I'm 99,9% sure their project isn't an MMORPG. And any multiplayer game with more than 10 players can basically call themselves MMO. Probably just another lobbyshooter or something like that.

No, it's an MMO and Ghostcrawler/Street has made that repeatedly clear, so have the other folks they've brought on to work on the game. So unless something changes later in development a la Magic: Legends (RIP) turning from a "next-gen MMO" into a "semi-MMO ARPG", it's still an MMO.

[Darkeon]

Long live Josh Strife Hayes. Both entertaining and bringing me all the good news as to make me feel happy I didn't pick this game up.

[Garymorilix]

I've made no excused. They're shitting the bed. The company fucked up the leadership of their game division by putting someone in charge, in a strong top-down structure, who had no clue what they were doing. Devs were absolutely boned as a result (see the Twitter thread I linked earlier), but the game is still increasingly broken.



Pointing out that making games is hard isn't "simping" for anyone, that's a reality. It is hard, and if you speak with any developer - even if they've cranked out banger after banger - they'll tell you the exact same thing.



Cool, not sure where you got this from outside of making it up.

I enjoy exploring. I enjoy harvesting and crafting. I mostly enjoy the combat. I don't play a ton (I'm still mid level) because I don't want to play a ton, it's a nice side game for me to chill in and just go fishing or spend time doing some faction quests or farming mats. I'm not looking for a relationship in game, especially one I'm not paying a sub for, I'm just lookin to have some casual fun.

See, the issue is not that you like something that is objectively a trash pile. Tik Tok also exists. People can like whatever they want.
The issue is that you try to excuse incompetence. Especially incompetence in a field where all these issues were figured out and fixed a decade ago.



Literally nobody is excusing it in this thread, so I'm not sure if you're daydreaming a little to realistically or if you're reading this somewhere else.

Aight.
Construction is also hard but when your roof collapses on you the last person you excuse will be the one who built it.
Everything is hard, this is life.

This is not a real argument. We expect a functional product as a customer. It's that simple.

[Puupi]

No, it's an MMO and Ghostcrawler/Street has made that repeatedly clear, so have the other folks they've brought on to work on the game. So unless something changes later in development a la Magic: Legends (RIP) turning from a "next-gen MMO" into a "semi-MMO ARPG", it's still an MMO.

Unless they have specifically said it's an MMORPG, the term MMO means nothing in this day and age. Technically almost all multiplayer games are MMO's by definition.

[Garymorilix]

Clinging to the hope of Riot actually working on an MMORPG is also desperation. I'm 99,9% sure their project isn't an MMORPG. And any multiplayer game with more than 10 players can basically call themselves MMO. Probably just another lobbyshooter or something like that.

When Ghostcrawler literally says it is I don't know what to tell you.

[Edge-]

Aight.
Construction is also hard but when your roof collapses on you the last person you excuse will be the one who built it.
Everything is hard, this is life.

...were you trying to make a point of this? Because it has nothing to do with the reality that making a game is extremely difficult, MMO's far more so given the increased complexity. That's not to excuse a game being broken, simply to point out that it's fuckin hard to make a good game.

Unless they have specifically said it's an MMORPG, the term MMO means nothing in this day and age. Technically almost all multiplayer games are MMO's by definition.

https://www.riotgames.com/en/mmo-recruiting

No, you’re not dreaming, we’re working on an MMORPG based in the League universe!

But this is for another thread so I'll stop it here.

[Puupi]

https://www.riotgames.com/en/mmo-recruiting



But this is for another thread so I'll stop it here.

Oh they've announced it. I stand corrected. Last time I read about the project it wasn't yet clear what kind of game will it be.

[Garymorilix]

...were you trying to make a point of this? Because it has nothing to do with the reality that making a game is extremely difficult, MMO's far more so given the increased complexity. That's not to excuse a game being broken, simply to point out that it's fuckin hard to make a good game.



https://www.riotgames.com/en/mmo-recruiting



But this is for another thread so I'll stop it here.

Yes, point is, making ANYTHING is hard.
So this is not something that matters, you can keep saying it, it is simply not a metric in this conversation. I don't care if they have to make sacrifices to an Aztec deity daily, all I care is what the end product that they ask money for is.

What's the point of saying that making games is hard if not to excuse their incompetence?
I don't keep stating how water is wet constantly either as it wouldn't have a connection to the topic.

So you are either trying to make an excuse or are just pointlessly stating a fact.
Either way it's annoying.

[Edge-]

Either way it's annoying.

You don't have to read and respond to my posts if my pointing out factual realities annoys you.

[rhorle]

https://forums.newworld.com/t/notice...w-world/473167

Gives some insight into the client server relationship. They are saying it was a bug and not that they game is client authoritative. It might also explain the lag with AoE if everything has full physics calculations as they claim.

[Edge-]

Man, guess the internet investigators aren't all they're cracked up to be.

That ended up not being remotely true despite them screaming at anyone who might dare suggest otherwise.

We did have a bug, in which given certain circumstances we were waiting server side on input from a client before processing through to outcomes. Combined with an intentional weapon effect that allows for brief invulnerability, this created a situation where players could reach an invulnerable state and prolong it by making the client unresponsive

Shit, I didn't post it in this thread but I absolutely fuckin called this elsewhere, that the issue was tied to primarily to the server waiting for final confirmation from the client side. That's why you didn't actually fully die when this glitch first popped up, but still took full damage since the server was accepting those inputs from the other player. It hitched when the server registered the death blow from the other player, but couldn't confirm with the client, so couldn't confirm the altered state of the player (i.e. dead). Same reason why it didn't actually prevent fall damage and just paused you in the air, it was waiting for confirmation from the client to alter its position in the world but the overall calculations of the fall and the subsequent damage were unaffected.

Glad this at least isn't an issue players have to worry about anymore.

I wonder if JSH is gonna make a video about this. Or pull down his last video. Or update it with correct information about the bug having nothing to do with client authority.

[PACOX]

Man, guess the internet investigators aren't all they're cracked up to be.

That ended up not being remotely true despite them screaming at anyone who might dare suggest otherwise.



Shit, I didn't post it in this thread but I absolutely fuckin called this elsewhere, that the issue was tied to primarily to the server waiting for final confirmation from the client side. That's why you didn't actually fully die when this glitch first popped up, but still took full damage since the server was accepting those inputs from the other player. It hitched when the server registered the death blow from the other player, but couldn't confirm with the client, so couldn't confirm the altered state of the player (i.e. dead). Same reason why it didn't actually prevent fall damage and just paused you in the air, it was waiting for confirmation from the client to alter its position in the world but the overall calculations of the fall and the subsequent damage were unaffected.

Glad this at least isn't an issue players have to worry about anymore.

I wonder if JSH is gonna make a video about this. Or pull down his last video. Or update it with correct information about the bug having nothing to do with client authority.

The statement from AGS is almost one of semantics. I don't believe that Josh guy claimed that the game was completely controlled by the client, that the client supercedes the server. The server clearly allows the client leeway, hence the bug/exploit.

The server is waiting on the client instead of throwing an exception, which is bad. It means the client does have authority if the server is left waiting - the server then accepts the client's response without doing a logic check.. The client determines the outcome. AGS didn't intended to design the game that way but it is what it is.

To reiterate, there's no statement that says

client > seever

But their game logic allows for cases where

Client > server.

Nothing actually contradicts the meat of Josh's video, the problem was the server allowing the client to much room for error.

[Fencers]

Unless they have specifically said it's an MMORPG, the term MMO means nothing in this day and age. Technically almost all multiplayer games are MMO's by definition.

Its literally the first thing on their website. "We're Making an MMO".

https://www.riotgames.com/en/mmo-recruiting

[Cthulhu 2020]

MMOs take time to develop, even WoW was broken in many aspects when it was released and even today they cant completely solve server lag and stability issues with lots of players, issues cant be found as easy until the game is being played, in time all games get smoothed out.

And just circling back to this, yes, MMOs take time to develop. That doesn't mean they should be riddled with game breaking bugs and client-server issues. Just because WoW had HTML enabled chat doesn't mean New World should have it. Hell, the fact that HTML enabled chats have not only happened in WoW but in other MMOs as well makes this incident all the less forgivable. If other MMOs had those problems, why were they not rooted out in alpha? Or beta? These aren't issues that take thousands of players to find. THESE ARE FUNDAMENTAL CODING SHITSHOWS.

[Very Tired]

Its literally the first thing on their website. "We're Making an MMO".

https://www.riotgames.com/en/mmo-recruiting

Honestly got a chuckle out of this.

[Fencers]

In case people here don't follow NW on Social Media or the forums:

https://forums.newworld.com/t/downti...th-2021/472483

Edit: The devs also revealed how the Watermark system works in more detail and changes to Tuning Orb crafting is on the way supposedly.

Probably only relevant to high-end players in the level 62+ areas. Sharing that the info is out there nonetheless.

[kaminaris]

Oh wow, these bugs simply tells you game devs have very little foresight. Especially regarding input boxes. You don't trust anything people write. Always remove any non-ascii chars from it, never store html, just a simple replacements like [item=id/stat1=something] then render that on client side.

When the input reaches the server, it is checked to see if it is possible, and then the server begins animating an entirely server side version of the “skeleton” for the character with a swing. This is not an approximation or a bounding volume version of the skeleton, it’s actually fully detailed, being fully animated, so we can have precision that if the axe just barely grazes the tree, that is consistent between server and what client perceives as possible.

This is simply dumb. Server should just keep simple geometrical data and tell client if it hit or no. No wonder they had massive lags.

Server should not wait for anything from the client.