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  1. #281
    The Unstoppable Force Lorgar Aurelian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mojo03 View Post
    https://mmo-population.com/

    Retail is at about 1.1 million according to this site.

    Classic at about 500k.

    Retail was at 7 million after SL launched.

    So it's gone down 6 million in a year...
    The numbers on that site aren’t based on any thing real you might as well say the game has 2 players or 200m players and it would be as close to true.
    All I ever wanted was the truth. Remember those words as you read the ones that follow. I never set out to topple my father's kingdom of lies from a sense of misplaced pride. I never wanted to bleed the species to its marrow, reaving half the galaxy clean of human life in this bitter crusade. I never desired any of this, though I know the reasons for which it must be done. But all I ever wanted was the truth.

  2. #282
    Brewmaster Skylarking's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post
    Misrepresenting data is considered "lying" for all intents and purposes by the SEC. It is easier to believe in some grand conspiracy where you, and others, are the select few smart enough to see the truth. Or you know you could just take the comments at face value and find out that WoW is not under performing based on the criteria they stated.
    I'm not familiar with how investor callings report work but isn't it in everyone's best interest at blizzard to present themselves in a positive fashion to their investors? Why would they willingly tell them that wow is on the decline or anything negative.

  3. #283
    Quote Originally Posted by Skylarking View Post
    I'm not familiar with how investor callings report work but isn't it in everyone's best interest at blizzard to present themselves in a positive fashion to their investors? Why would they willingly tell them that wow is on the decline or anything negative.
    they cant lie or misinterpret facts (and all those facts have to be audited before released to investors by another independant party), they would risk ENORMOUS troubles and gain nothing, they can ofc formulate it favourably

    for example if they have one (lets ignore milions and keep it simple) less person playing a game they cant say it performed better than previous Q, but they can say it performed comparably to the previous Q, sounds better than "performed worse" and its still truth, although a bit vague

    so when they say something performed better than previous Q it had to perform better, it might by TINY difference, but have to be better

  4. #284
    Quote Originally Posted by Pendragon View Post
    The fact that WoW is doing well is worrying considering the state of the game. The devs will learn nothing at all because they don't need to.
    Or maybe the majority of players don;t want he game you want? You need to stop acting like how you want the game is the only way it can be considered good. You need to start realizing your opinion is just that and not fact.

  5. #285
    The Insane rhorle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skylarking View Post
    I'm not familiar with how investor callings report work but isn't it in everyone's best interest at blizzard to present themselves in a positive fashion to their investors? Why would they willingly tell them that wow is on the decline or anything negative.
    It is in their best interest to report the truth. Lying to investors causes trouble. They already had one SEC investigation about misleading investors in regards to the recent lawsuits. Lying on an earnings report just to "be positive" would cause more trouble the company doesn't want. There is nothing PR speak about saying something is on track to out perform. Is it wording it in a positive light? Sure because it is positive news even if slight.

    It would be a lie though if the stated product is actually under performing.
    "Man is his own star. His acts are his angels, good or ill, While his fatal shadows walk silently beside him."-Rhyme of the Primeval Paradine AFC 54
    You know a community is bad when moderators lock a thread because "...this isnt the place to talk about it either seeing as it will get trolled..."

  6. #286
    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post
    No one is calling it a victory lap. There is no reason to exaggerate here. It does mean that WoW is not under performing like another person claimed. The investor brief is still a legal communication that if they are found to be lying will result in hefty fines and trouble for the company. Most forum goers here are not savvy enough to understand what is being said as evidence by the constant twisting and misinterpreting of comments.

    You can't lie just to keep investors from selling shares. Well you can but if you get caught that is practically game over.
    Its slightly underperformed. But nothing to really worry about in the long term. Chances are they had big issues this quarter but because of a strong second quarter, even with diminished prospects in the 4th, they'll still perform decently well.
    The issue is this is an expansion release year and they've definitely underperformed in that regard, seeing as they explicitly are only beating nonexpansion years.

    Thats the thing here, they aren't lying to investors, but they have no obligation to show the whole truth.

  7. #287
    Quote Originally Posted by Tibia4ever View Post
    Lmao, I love the denial of some users here. When it comes to MAU, there is a decline regardless of your opinion. The question is how much is it for WoW, since there are many games included in that MAU.
    I love how players still still the game is on a major decline despite the numbmers saying the opposite. "pay no attention to the numbers. I have declared the game is declining because I say it is". That game is in a much better place than the doomsayers want to admit. Talk about denial.

  8. #288
    The Insane rhorle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by StillMcfuu View Post
    The issue is this is an expansion release year and they've definitely underperformed in that regard, seeing as they explicitly are only beating nonexpansion years.
    It isn't an expansion year otherwise their statement would be a lie. An easy one for the SEC to go after them for since Activision Blizzard stated in the investor report that it was not an expansion year for retail "modern" WoW.
    "Man is his own star. His acts are his angels, good or ill, While his fatal shadows walk silently beside him."-Rhyme of the Primeval Paradine AFC 54
    You know a community is bad when moderators lock a thread because "...this isnt the place to talk about it either seeing as it will get trolled..."

  9. #289
    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post
    It isn't an expansion year otherwise their statement would be a lie. An easy one for the SEC to go after them for since Activision Blizzard stated in the investor report that it was not an expansion year for retail "modern" WoW.
    Tbc came out, and had mtx, its an expansion year, maybe not "modern" but they still added a new game with a way to spend money on it that should be driving maus.

  10. #290
    Quote Originally Posted by StillMcfuu View Post
    The issue is this is an expansion release year and they've definitely underperformed in that regard, seeing as they explicitly are only beating nonexpansion years.
    they also beaten 2019, year with "no modern expansion", when vanila came out... so unless you think vanila was complete and utter failure, they did perform well this year

  11. #291
    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post
    Misrepresenting data is considered "lying" for all intents and purposes by the SEC. It is easier to believe in some grand conspiracy where you, and others, are the select few smart enough to see the truth. Or you know you could just take the comments at face value and find out that WoW is not under performing based on the criteria they stated.
    Simply not true. Otherwise they would be already fined for using mau's which is already straight bullshit with how it's counted.

  12. #292
    Quote Originally Posted by Lolites View Post
    they also beaten 2019, year with "no modern expansion", when vanila came out... so unless you think vanila was complete and utter failure, they did perform well this year
    Vanilla had no mtx, but maus were far better for classic. That was also just last quarter, it doesn't mean they will beat 2019 this year, even with the tbc mtx.

    Like I said, they underperformed, its not the end of the world, but considering the releases and what they had going on, they aren't doing great this year, they are doing ok.

  13. #293
    I wanted to tell the Blizzard community this personally because I want you to know I believe so strongly in Mike and the rest of Blizzard’s leadership both in terms of Blizzard’s culture and Blizzard’s games. Blizzard’s best days are ahead. I truly believe that.
    Nothing says "I truly believe Blizzard's best days are ahead" like leaving the company when you're in a leadership position.

  14. #294
    The Insane rhorle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by StillMcfuu View Post
    Tbc came out, and had mtx, its an expansion year, maybe not "modern" but they still added a new game with a way to spend money on it that should be driving maus.
    The statement by Activision Blizzard specifically was in reference to modern (retail). Of course if you add in your own definitions and stipulations their statement changes.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mbit View Post
    Simply not true. Otherwise they would be already fined for using mau's which is already straight bullshit with how it's counted.
    Monthly Active users is not lying or misrepresenting facts. They give a clear definition for that metric to the investors. Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it is a lie.

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    Quote Originally Posted by StillMcfuu View Post
    Vanilla had no mtx
    Sure it did. TCG loot cards were micro transactions.
    "Man is his own star. His acts are his angels, good or ill, While his fatal shadows walk silently beside him."-Rhyme of the Primeval Paradine AFC 54
    You know a community is bad when moderators lock a thread because "...this isnt the place to talk about it either seeing as it will get trolled..."

  15. #295
    Quote Originally Posted by StillMcfuu View Post
    Vanilla had no mtx, but maus were far better for classic. That was also just last quarter, it doesn't mean they will beat 2019 this year, even with the tbc mtx.

    Like I said, they underperformed, its not the end of the world, but considering the releases and what they had going on, they aren't doing great this year, they are doing ok.


    mtx do nothing with engagement, and you have no clue what number of players vanila or tbcc had, as maus are for whole blizz...

    wow classic released in august so Q3, so wow have to be AS OF NOW performing better than at this time of the year in 2019 otherwise it would be misleading which would lead to a CRAPLOAD of troubles, that they really cant risk right now since they are under "keen eye" due to lawsuit and shit...

    they outperformed 2019, its said loud and clear, you might choose to believe they lie, but thats your problem... and nobody said they are doing great, they are doing fine, just better than any year without modern expansion in last decade (which includes year vanila was released)... might be just TINY BIT better, but its definitely better...

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    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post
    Sure it did. TCG loot cards were micro transactions.
    i think he means classic vanila, which he is right, but that makes no difference as ENGAGEMENT is stronger too

  16. #296
    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post
    The statement by Activision Blizzard specifically was in reference to modern (retail). Of course if you add in your own definitions and stipulations their statement changes.

    - - - Updated - - -



    Monthly Active users is not lying or misrepresenting facts. They give a clear definition for that metric to the investors. Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it is a lie.

    - - - Updated - - -



    Sure it did. TCG loot cards were micro transactions.
    Blizz is moving the bar, why don't you see that. Classic had no mtx is what I was saying.
    This is the savvy part, no offense, but you are failing to see the report for what it is. Like I said earlier in the thread, its easy to not lie, but not report the truth.
    If everyone logged in to delete their characters and Uninstaller multiple games, blizz can say "player engagement and maus at an all time high" its not a lie.

  17. #297
    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post
    Explain why it should be different. Why shouldn't a user of each product be counted each month? Why should you only count it once company wide? Even if you only play for 1 min you were still a monthly active user.
    Thats the problem, not the solution, thats literally prooving my point, if your counting someone logging in for a second as a MAU, then your actually being disengenuous and committing white lie fraud.

    Your telling people you're basically active when you're not, and your making it look like someone touching the game equates to playing it, sure, the majority of the gaming industry does this, but in blizzards case they love to inflate the numbers to unrealistic levels.

    There is absoleutely no way in hell with the emptiness of current wow servers that there is somehow magically 10 million people still playing this game, that isnt just impossible, it is impossible.

    If you were to realistically check the bot-to-player ratio, then you can see that in classic, tbc and retail.

    Remember captain grim's meme video about the state of wow? Its not a joke, there are literally bots running dungeons and blizzard *Doesnt* ban them for doing this so of COURSE its going to look impressive to their shareholders.

    Its not just smoke and mirrors, its flat out fraud.

    Simply put, why should it be different? Because fraud is that one thing that never works once people can see through it and when they can, its impossible to pretend its fine when anyone with more than 2 brain cells can figure out that 1+1 does not infact equal 3.

  18. #298
    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post
    Monthly Active users is not lying or misrepresenting facts. They give a clear definition for that metric to the investors. Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it is a lie.

    - - - Updated - - -
    Did i say lie? You claimed biased data was illegal.
    Its biased data to count people muliple times loggin in from different devices. Make up your mind is biased data okay or not?

  19. #299
    The Insane rhorle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by StillMcfuu View Post
    This is the savvy part, no offense, but you are failing to see the report for what it is
    No. I am just not choosing to add a bias to the statements made. You keep claiming they lied and that WoW is actually under performing. Why not inform the SEC that the investor communications contains an error?

    Also why is it wrong to count every person that logs into a game? Not to mention you don't need to log in to uninstall any of their products. You and others like to spin MAU as being bad for counting every MAU for a product. Logging into a game for even 1 second makes you an active user for that month. Why wouldn't it? Why are you advocating that they actually lie by not counting every user for that period?

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    Quote Originally Posted by mbit View Post
    Did i say lie? You claimed biased data was illegal.
    Its biased data to count people muliple times loggin in from different devices. Make up your mind is biased data okay or not?
    It isn't biased to count a user as active for individual products and then combining it into one company wide statistic. That is reporting active users for all products lol. And yes you claimed MAU is a lie because they would already have been fined for reporting them if they can get in trouble for lying to investors.
    "Man is his own star. His acts are his angels, good or ill, While his fatal shadows walk silently beside him."-Rhyme of the Primeval Paradine AFC 54
    You know a community is bad when moderators lock a thread because "...this isnt the place to talk about it either seeing as it will get trolled..."

  20. #300
    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainV View Post
    Thats the problem, not the solution, thats literally prooving my point, if your counting someone logging in for a second as a MAU, then your actually being disengenuous and committing white lie fraud.

    Your telling people you're basically active when you're not, and your making it look like someone touching the game equates to playing it, sure, the majority of the gaming industry does this, but in blizzards case they love to inflate the numbers to unrealistic levels.

    There is absoleutely no way in hell with the emptiness of current wow servers that there is somehow magically 10 million people still playing this game, that isnt just impossible, it is impossible.

    If you were to realistically check the bot-to-player ratio, then you can see that in classic, tbc and retail.

    Remember captain grim's meme video about the state of wow? Its not a joke, there are literally bots running dungeons and blizzard *Doesnt* ban them for doing this so of COURSE its going to look impressive to their shareholders.

    Its not just smoke and mirrors, its flat out fraud.

    Simply put, why should it be different? Because fraud is that one thing that never works once people can see through it and when they can, its impossible to pretend its fine when anyone with more than 2 brain cells can figure out that 1+1 does not infact equal 3.
    Its not fraud, its how maus are counted and its a decently common metric. People should know that MAUs aren't a hard line measure of success, but considering net bookings are still doing well Blizz isn't going to care.
    MAU is ultimately how many potential customers there are, more is better but if they can meet expectations with less they don't matter as much. Thats the trick Blizz has been pulling for years.

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