1. #10981
    One of the reasons I think a revamp is coming is that I doubt they will have new players continue to go through BFA and SL. Especially not SL if we go back to Azeroth. I really don’t think that SL story will lead to 10.0 the way that BFA did to SL.

    So new players will need an expansion to level in that actually takes place on Azeroth, but isn’t Endgame yet. Hence revamp 10-60 and new zones like Dragon Isles for endgame leveling.

    Though I’ll admit they could have them just do BFA again because it sets up a bunch of stuff on Azeroth unrelated to SL like the council.
    Last edited by EbaumsTipster; 2021-11-03 at 08:30 PM.

  2. #10982
    Quote Originally Posted by Zantera View Post
    I'm not necessarily against scaling but I think there's also something about overpowering a zone as well. Doing Barrens at level 10 and then coming back at max level and the mobs are still 'challenging' would be a problem for some.
    That is true, but there is somewhat of a problem if the vast majority of your game is trivial.
    Maybe not all zones should be level scaled, or at least at the same time, but having a good reason to return to the barrens is just as important I would argue as being able to go back and feel like you are more powerful.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by EbaumsTipster View Post
    One of the reasons I think a revamp is coming is that I doubt they will have new players continue to go through BFA and SL. Especially not SL if we go back to Azeroth. I really don’t think that SL story will lead to 10.0 the way that BFA did to SL.

    So new players will need an expansion to level in that actually takes place on Azeroth, but isn’t Endgame yet. Hence revamp 10-60 and new zones like Dragon Isles for endgame leveling.
    I have been saying this for a while, and it bears repeating. Making BfA the 10-50 levelling worked wonder for Shadowlands because BfA just needed a few tweaks to make it a really tightly written levelling experience that explains a bunch of small stuff.
    Shadowlands meanwhile will really struggle to do the same. Sending new players straight from Exile's reach to Icecrown to partake in a ritual to enter the Shadowlands is far too big a leap to make natural.
    The world revamp dream will never die!

  3. #10983
    Quote Originally Posted by draugril View Post
    Most mysteries are interesting solely because they are mysteries. Especially when they exist for world-building purposes rather than narrative.

    There's a reason we don't know what happened to the Entwives or the Dwemer.
    Yup. Nothing more efficient in making your world feel smaller and less mystical than explaining and revealing everything.

    And let's be real, with Bethesda, what happened to the Dwemer is going to be revealed sooner rather than later.
    Quote Originally Posted by choom View Post
    Which one of those ropes can I hang myself with

  4. #10984
    Void Lord Aeluron Lightsong's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    In some Sanctuaryesque place or a Haven
    Posts
    44,683
    That is true, but there is somewhat of a problem if the vast majority of your game is trivial.
    Maybe not all zones should be level scaled, or at least at the same time, but having a good reason to return to the barrens is just as important I would argue as being able to go back and feel like you are more powerful.

    Zones having a max level that isn't level capped is a solution. I .E Max level for mobs in Redridge isn't 60.
    #TeamLegion #UnderEarthofAzerothexpansion plz #Arathor4Alliance #TeamNoBlueHorde

    Warrior-Magi

  5. #10985
    Quote Originally Posted by GR8GODZILLAGOD View Post
    Yup. Nothing more efficient in making your world feel smaller and less mystical than explaining and revealing everything.

    And let's be real, with Bethesda, what happened to the Dwemer is going to be revealed sooner rather than later.
    Yeah, Blizzard is doing their storytelling backwards. They keep everything about the main plot completely mysterious and unexplained, providing only hints and cliffhangers, then go through pains to explain the overall setting and mechanics of the universe. Most of the Shadowlands lore belongs in a design document that exists internally just to keep the mythos of the universe consistent. Instead, they keep the motivations of both our antagonists and protagonists completely secret. That's not how you tell a satisfying story.
    Last edited by draugril; 2021-11-03 at 08:56 PM.

  6. #10986
    Quote Originally Posted by draugril View Post
    Yeah, Blizzard is doing their storytelling backwards. They keep everything about the main plot completely mysterious and unexplained, providing only hints and cliffhangers, go to through pains to explain the overall setting and mechanics of the universe. Most of the Shadowlands lore belongs in a design document that exists internally just to keep the mythos of the universe consistent. Instead, they keep the motivations of both our antagonists and protagonists completely secret. That's not how you tell a satisfying story.
    Feels to me like the writers are forced to include the main character cast to compete with the "main party" in XIV and ESO but the writers really don't like or give a shit about them. Their (Thrall/Anduin/Baine/Jaina) writing is always bland and not really fun or interesting, it feels like the devs were forced to put them back in and neuter them for a "normal" audience and they (the writers) can really only get their kicks with side characters (Bwonsamdi, most of the Venthyr, the Stewards, etc) and lore.

    Mass appeal is a bitch.

  7. #10987
    Quote Originally Posted by Zantera View Post
    I'm not necessarily against scaling but I think there's also something about overpowering a zone as well. Doing Barrens at level 10 and then coming back at max level and the mobs are still 'challenging' would be a problem for some.
    Yeah because at that point you might as well not have levels at all.

  8. #10988
    Quote Originally Posted by EbaumsTipster View Post
    Feels to me like the writers are forced to include the main character cast to compete with the "main party" in XIV and ESO but the writers really don't like or give a shit about them. Their (Thrall/Anduin/Baine/Jaina) writing is always bland and not really fun or interesting, it feels like the devs were forced to put them back in and neuter them for a "normal" audience and they (the writers) can really only get their kicks with side characters (Bwonsamdi, most of the Venthyr, the Stewards, etc) and lore.

    Mass appeal is a bitch.
    Even if they were just forced, this still means they are doing a bad job at utlizing their cast of characters. Though I will admit they never stood a chance, suddenly starting to tell a good story was never going to happen, especially not with the piss poor story quest design wow has, and the audience they've cultivated over the years.
    You are welcome, Metzen. I hope you won't fuck up my underground expansion idea.

  9. #10989
    Quote Originally Posted by Ersula View Post
    If the shadowlands is so unknowable why did they make it a tiny dot on the Titan's grand cosmology chart?
    You just answered your own question there.

    Also, most of what you say there isn't actually supported - there's no indication the Eternal Ones care about World Souls, nor that the First Ones told the Titans anything at all. Nor does Draenor have a World Soul, so the Titans weren't interrupted doing anything. Aggramar just came across it and animated some mountains on a lark. As far as we know, the Elemental Plane (singular) is unique to Azeroth, too.

    You seem to be going off D&D and then try to fit the WarCraft cosmos into your preconceived similarity.

  10. #10990
    Quote Originally Posted by draugril View Post
    Most mysteries are interesting solely because they are mysteries. Especially when they exist for world-building purposes rather than narrative.

    There's a reason we don't know what happened to the Entwives or the Dwemer.
    Couldn't agree more with this.

    WoW paradoxically felt its biggest in Vanilla when nothing was fleshed out. Trying to dive into WoW's afterlife is the ultimate sin of keeping things a mystery. I am glad Ion recently said they were moving away from this.

  11. #10991
    Quote Originally Posted by Felis igneus View Post
    Even if they were just forced, this still means they are doing a bad job at utlizing their cast of characters. Though I will admit they never stood a chance, suddenly starting to tell a good story was never going to happen, especially not with the piss poor story quest design wow has, and the audience they've cultivated over the years.
    I'd accept just a "fine", mediocre story at this point.
    Quote Originally Posted by choom View Post
    Which one of those ropes can I hang myself with

  12. #10992
    Void Lord Aeluron Lightsong's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    In some Sanctuaryesque place or a Haven
    Posts
    44,683
    Quote Originally Posted by Khaza-R View Post
    Couldn't agree more with this.

    WoW paradoxically felt its biggest in Vanilla when nothing was fleshed out. Trying to dive into WoW's afterlife is the ultimate sin of keeping things a mystery. I am glad Ion recently said they were moving away from this.
    Wow was smaller back then compared to now. So no there isn't a reason those things aren't known. Its worldbuilding. Like most of what Warcraft was in vanilla is Horde and Alliance


    Eastern Kingdoms and Kalimdor. Oh and Northrend but wasn't fleshed out. Over time it became bigger so no, this obession with mystery is just silly and borders on nostalgia chasing.
    #TeamLegion #UnderEarthofAzerothexpansion plz #Arathor4Alliance #TeamNoBlueHorde

    Warrior-Magi

  13. #10993
    Quote Originally Posted by huth View Post
    You seem to be going off D&D and then try to fit the WarCraft cosmos into your preconceived similarity.
    You don't think Warcraft is extensively inspired by Dungeons & Dragons? Do you think Warcraft Moon Goddess Elune might have been inspired by D&D Moon Goddess Selune? The D&D stuff isn't even the theorycrafting, that's the stuff directly stated in Chronicles. The separating of the Emerald Dream & creation of the Elemental Planes is synonymous with The Sundering (the Toril one, not the Azeroth one)

    Quote Originally Posted by huth View Post
    there's no indication the Eternal Ones care about World Souls
    The Winter Queen directly states the point of Ardenweald is to cycle energy back into the natural world of Azeroth & the other planets. And as far as we know only World Souls have life on them. That says to me they're pretty invested in nurturing Azeroth's World Soul.

    Quote Originally Posted by huth View Post
    Nor does Draenor have a World Soul, so the Titans weren't interrupted doing anything
    Uh, yes they were? Did you miss the whole story of Eonar & Aggrimar cultivating Gorgrond & starting to build structures? Draenor is just younger than Azeroth & they were interrupted building up Draenor's protection when Sargeras started to attack Azeroth. That's not theory, that's right there in game lore.

  14. #10994
    Quote Originally Posted by Ersula View Post
    You don't think Warcraft is extensively inspired by Dungeons & Dragons? Do you think Warcraft Moon Goddess Elune might have been inspired by D&D Moon Goddess Selune? The D&D stuff isn't even the theorycrafting, that's the stuff directly stated in Chronicles. The separating of the Emerald Dream & creation of the Elemental Planes is synonymous with The Sundering (the Toril one, not the Azeroth one)
    Yes, i think it's inspired. Not copied wholesale.

    The Winter Queen directly states the point of Ardenweald is to cycle energy back into the natural world of Azeroth & the other planets. And as far as we know only World Souls have life on them. That says to me they're pretty invested in nurturing Azeroth's World Soul.
    We know at least one planet that has life and no World Soul. Draenor. We also know from the backstory that World Souls are actually exceedingly rare - outside of Argus and Azeroth, the only other one we know of was cleft in twain by Sargeras due to Void corruption.

    Uh, yes they were? Did you miss the whole story of Eonar & Aggrimar cultivating Gorgrond & starting to build structures? Draenor is just younger than Azeroth & they were interrupted building up Draenor's protection when Sargeras started to attack Azeroth. That's not theory, that's right there in game lore.
    Draenor does/did not have a World Soul. You're working of incorrect premises.

  15. #10995
    Quote Originally Posted by Aeluron Lightsong View Post
    Wow was smaller back then compared to now. So no there isn't a reason those things aren't known. Its worldbuilding. Like most of what Warcraft was in vanilla is Horde and Alliance


    Eastern Kingdoms and Kalimdor. Oh and Northrend but wasn't fleshed out. Over time it became bigger so no, this obession with mystery is just silly and borders on nostalgia chasing.
    You're missing the point.

    WoW felt big back then because it seemed there was more ahead of it than behind it. Entire areas left to explore that were still uncharted. People try to argue these cosmic storylines expand the scope of WoW and make it bigger. That may yet be the case but it doesn't help the perception of most players. Nothing about this "cosmos" is even moderately fleshed out so far. There's virtually nothing to speculate on. So the world feels like its shrinking rather than expanding.

  16. #10996
    Quote Originally Posted by EbaumsTipster View Post
    players will need an expansion to level in that actually takes place on Azeroth, but isn’t Endgame yet. Hence revamp 10-60 and new zones like Dragon Isles for endgame leveling.
    I really hope this is what they do, and I hope it's what they're working on right now.

    I know it's a "0.5" patch but the fact that 9.1.5 took so long to release and basically nothing changed other than the removal of existing content, they're gonna have to do something soon.
    change can't wait.

  17. #10997
    Quote Originally Posted by united View Post
    I really hope this is what they do, and I hope it's what they're working on right now.

    I know it's a "0.5" patch but the fact that 9.1.5 took so long to release and basically nothing changed other than the removal of existing content, they're gonna have to do something soon.
    9.1 also didn’t have too much in the way of new assets, borrowing a lot from 9.0. They have all their artists working on SOMETHING and all we’ve seen in the files is minor changes to a human house.

    SL’s rapid story makes me feel like it was designed as filler between BFA and the non-Sylvanas things BFA set up: namely faction coop and the dragons.

  18. #10998
    https://i.4cdn.org/vg/1635981729625.png

    It begins.

    This would be p kino if it wasn't obviously fake with the "Awakenings" bullshit.

    At least leak season seems to be kicking off.

  19. #10999
    Quote Originally Posted by Vasoka View Post
    https://i.4cdn.org/vg/1635981729625.png

    It begins.

    This would be p kino if it wasn't obviously fake with the "Awakenings" bullshit.

    At least leak season seems to be kicking off.
    Had me until Awakenings. Damn it.

    Though I would admit, flying houses would be a very clever way to both do housing and introduce tinkers. And seems like a tie in to the flying dragon isles idea...

  20. #11000
    Quote Originally Posted by Vasoka View Post


    It begins.

    This would be p kino if it wasn't obviously fake with the "Awakenings" bullshit.

    At least leak season seems to be kicking off.
    Doubt. Blizzconline 2022 has been cancelled. Very doubtful that 9.2 will come out in Spring 2022. Also doubt player controlled airships will work within the WoW engine.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •