Dragonflight Alpha/Beta General Discussion

[Hitei]

It's contextually specific. Not generally. You can throw "Cataclysm" onto virtually any property and it could work.

Avengers: Cataclysm.
Batman vs. Superman: Cataclysm.
Men in Black: Cataclysm.
Matrix: Re-Cataclysm.
Little Cataclysm on the Prairie.

I'd watch them all.

Try the same thing with a proper noun like "Pandaria" or "Draenor." It doesn't work. Your argument only makes sense if all the titles were as specific as those. Just because it has a specific meaning in-universe doesn't mean it isn't a generalized term. "Awakenings" could just as as significant as "Cataclysm" is in-game, but they're still general terms that aren't specific to the WarCraft universe.

That's what I'm saying though, "Awakenings" can't be as significant or specific in-game, because the fact that it is plural immediately means it's talking about a bunch of different events.

The point is not that the title is ultra unique only something that can only make sense in Warcraft; you could have a Wrath of a Lich King in any fantasy game that has Liches, or a Legion in any IP that has a notable army. The point is that the titles are always very specific and singular, never something vague and ill-defined or difficult to pin down. Which is what "Awakenings" is.

A player interested in a revamp expansion made up a title they figured sounded mysterious and grandiose, that was more metaphor than anything else and fit in with the revamp/rebirth concept. But Blizzard coming up with a title isn't looking for mysteriousness, they want clear definition that communicates as much about expansion as possible in a few words that sound nice together. You can see this with MoP. MoP is an expansion that leans heavy into mystery, and even then, when trying to capture that sense of mystery, they picked a title that communicates that mystery AND specifies what the expansion is: Mists of Pandaria. They don't do floaty abstract titles, which is exactly what "Awakenings" is.

Like I said in the last post, if it were grounded in specificity, maybe; "The Awakening" (no plural), "The Great Awakening", "Awakening of Azeroth", "The Last Awakening". But Awakenings just isn't the expansion title style.

Anduin culling Stormwind would be perfect. Have him murder Genn for that final Arthas parallel -- Tess can despise him for that and provide us with tension later on. He'll despise himself, and lead him down a more interesting path of dealing with that trauma and overcoming it to return stronger than ever.

As for the reasons to why? Perhaps the Jailer requires time to get through the defenses of the Sepulcher, and sending Anduin to raze his home not only wholly breaks his spirit, but distracts us from pursuing him and weakens one of the strongest factions on Azeroth.

A raid featuring a burning Stormwind, a necropolis hovering above and us trying to catch up with Anduin's deathmarch towards the throne would be amazing.

Why would he care about the factions on Azeroth? The primary threats to his agenda are all in the Shadowlands and also the Alliance is only one of the strongest factions on Azeroth when dealing with Azeroth tier threats they can mobilize a regular army against. There are clearly much, much bigger potential hazards to his agenda and defenders of the planet, like the Watchers of Ulduar, the Dragonflights, the Kirin Tor.

Also attacking Stormwind would literally only distract us. That is, the (Alliance) players and like half a dozen leader NPCs currently involved. The covenants would still be focused on hunting him down, not worrying over a single city being razed.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

Why would he care about the factions on Azeroth? The primary threats to his agenda are all in the Shadowlands and also the Alliance is only one of the strongest factions on Azeroth when dealing with Azeroth tier threats they can mobilize a regular army against. There are clearly much, much bigger potential hazards to his agenda and defenders of the planet, like the Watchers of Ulduar, the Dragonflights, the Kirin Tor.

Also attacking Stormwind would literally only distract us. That is, the (Alliance) players and like half a dozen leader NPCs currently involved. The covenants would still be focused on hunting him down, not worrying over a single city being razed.

edgyness and "PARRELELL TO ARTHAS" They just want Anduin to be bad or the Alliance bad.

[draugril]

Like I said in the last post, if it were grounded in specificity, maybe; "The Awakening" (no plural), "The Great Awakening", "Awakening of Azeroth", "The Last Awakening". But Awakenings just isn't the expansion title style.

Eh, agree to disagree on this one. "Cataclysm" and "Legion" could have a plethora of meanings. We only need the in-game context before. A new expansion could be called "Awakenings" or "Return of Heroes" or even "Dragon Isles" or similarly generic fantasy stuff. Even "Shadowlands" itself is incredibly generic. The developers need only to give it context in the build-up or actual release.

In fact, given their current drive toward constant mysteries and cliffhangers, I wouldn't put it past them to name an expansion "Revelations." The context comes later.

The greater point is, these types of titles don't disqualify an expansion name. Or we would have had "Cataclysm of Deathwing" and "Legion of Sargeras." Those don't have the same ring, though, so we got the generic subtitles.

[Proudmong]

That's what I'm saying though, "Awakenings" can't be as significant or specific in-game, because the fact that it is plural immediately means it's talking about a bunch of different events.

The point is not that the title is ultra unique only something that can only make sense in Warcraft; you could have a Wrath of a Lich King in any fantasy game that has Liches, or a Legion in any IP that has a notable army. The point is that the titles are always very specific and singular, never something vague and ill-defined or difficult to pin down. Which is what "Awakenings" is.

A player interested in a revamp expansion made up a title they figured sounded mysterious and grandiose, that was more metaphor than anything else and fit in with the revamp/rebirth concept. But Blizzard coming up with a title isn't looking for mysteriousness, they want clear definition that communicates as much about expansion as possible in a few words that sound nice together. You can see this with MoP. MoP is an expansion that leans heavy into mystery, and even then, when trying to capture that sense of mystery, they picked a title that communicates that mystery AND specifies what the expansion is: Mists of Pandaria. They don't do floaty abstract titles, which is exactly what "Awakenings" is.

Like I said in the last post, if it were grounded in specificity, maybe; "The Awakening" (no plural), "The Great Awakening", "Awakening of Azeroth", "The Last Awakening". But Awakenings just isn't the expansion title style.


Why would he care about the factions on Azeroth? The primary threats to his agenda are all in the Shadowlands and also the Alliance is only one of the strongest factions on Azeroth when dealing with Azeroth tier threats they can mobilize a regular army against. There are clearly much, much bigger potential hazards to his agenda and defenders of the planet, like the Watchers of Ulduar, the Dragonflights, the Kirin Tor.

Also attacking Stormwind would literally only distract us. That is, the (Alliance) players and like half a dozen leader NPCs currently involved. The covenants would still be focused on hunting him down, not worrying over a single city being razed.

The Maw-Walkers have been Zovaal's largest adversaries, and half of them belong to the Alliance. Not to mention Bolvar and Jaina too. The rest of the Shadowlands denizens have proven almost entirely inept. So distracting even half of us gives his forces a whole lot of freedom. Also, attacking Azeroth doesn't just have to be for Stormwind -- that can just be one of the primary objectives. If the Mawsworn launched an invasion from the rift in Icecrown, that's a whole lot of carnage to leave even if they just bee-line for Stormwind.

edgyness and "PARRELELL TO ARTHAS" They just want Anduin to be bad or the Alliance bad.

Uhm no, Anduin attacking Stormwind wouldn't make either of them bad. It'd just be an interesting development and cause some tragedy, you know, since its war?

[Foreign Exchange Ztudent]

I'm gonna just say that they did this exact same stunt for 8.1->8.2 drought. Throw Interview on PCGamer (But PCGamer bad boys now so VentureBeat it is!).

The week after we have a Livestream announcement titled probably "Patch Preview 9.2 and the Future of Warcraft" or "Future of Warcraft" "Presentation: Future of World of Warcraft".

The week after we get the Livestream/VOD whatever it is.

[TheFirstOnes]

"Let's have Anduin burn down SW"

You guys do realize Anduin's supposed to be what Arthas never was, yeah? That means he WON'T burn down fucking Stormwind, lmao.

[Lady Atia]

I'm gonna just say that they did this exact same stunt for 8.1->8.2 drought. Throw Interview on PCGamer (But PCGamer bad boys now so VentureBeat it is!).

The week after we have a Livestream announcement titled probably "Patch Preview 9.2 and the Future of Warcraft" or "Future of Warcraft" "Presentation: Future of World of Warcraft".

The week after we get the Livestream/VOD whatever it is.

Yeah, I also think it's either a surprise update today, or next week with a teaser at Monday.

[Kiivar86]

When it comes to expansion titles, I still remember the reasoning some people came up with to try and discredit Cataclysm and Mists of Pandaria when they were first found.

Cataclysm's was along the lines of "previous expansions used multiple words! And also indicated who the threat was!"

MoP's was "The previous expansions all about the threat or event!"

Always makes me smile.

[Cherry123]

"Let's have Anduin burn down SW"

You guys do realize Anduin's supposed to be what Arthas never was, yeah? That means he WON'T burn down fucking Stormwind, lmao.

he is not Arthas, he is just a puppet

[Proudmong]

"Let's have Anduin burn down SW"

You guys do realize Anduin's supposed to be what Arthas never was, yeah? That means he WON'T burn down fucking Stormwind, lmao.

Even if he did, which yes, he probably won't, that still wouldn't make him Arthas. He's mind controlled entirely, which means there would be a future for redemption whereas Arthas had none.

People just want his whole domination arc to have actual consequences, otherwise it's only going to be remembered as that time Anduin became a shitty Arthas knock-off for nostalgia bait.

[BaumanKing]

"Let's have Anduin burn down SW"

You guys do realize Anduin's supposed to be what Arthas never was, yeah? That means he WON'T burn down fucking Stormwind, lmao.

"The crown of light will bring only darkness" refers to Anduin tho. Sure, he doesn't have a crown, but this is in a metaphorical sense. After all, he is the High King. Eventually, he will snap out of it, but not before doing some crazy stuff.

[Hitei]

When it comes to expansion titles, I still remember the reasoning some people came up with to try and discredit Cataclysm and Mists of Pandaria when they were first found.

Cataclysm's was along the lines of "previous expansions used multiple words! And also indicated who the threat was!"

MoP's was "The previous expansions all about the threat or event!"

Always makes me smile.

If I'm wrong, I'm wrong. I just really don't see Blizzard ever using something as plain and vague as "Awakenings".

[TheFirstOnes]

he is not Arthas, he is just a puppet

That's not what separates them, dude...

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"The crown of light will bring only darkness" refers to Anduin tho. Sure, he doesn't have a crown, but this is in a metaphorical sense. After all, he is the High King. Eventually, he will snap out of it, but not before doing some crazy stuff.

Or, it could be talking about Turalyon? There's a lot of shit pointing more towards that, really...

Then again, it could be talking about how Anduin's going to bring about Zovaal's rise to reality, and to the Sepulcher. Azshara calls Zovaal the "Darkness" Sylvanas seeks to unleash, and Zovaal is controlling Anduin rn. Doesn't mean Stormwind's gonna fucking burn lol.

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Even if he did, which yes, he probably won't, that still wouldn't make him Arthas. He's mind controlled entirely, which means there would be a future for redemption whereas Arthas had none.

People just want his whole domination arc to have actual consequences, otherwise it's only going to be remembered as that time Anduin became a shitty Arthas knock-off for nostalgia bait.

Hard to do that when Anduin's being used as a damn puppet against his will. Not at all his choice to do shit. At most, he'll be saved AT the Sepulcher, and no where beyond that point. IF he does do shit on Azeroth tho, then Turalyon may have a problem with it, especially with Lothraxion as his council commander pal.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

Hard to do that when Anduin's being used as a damn puppet against his will.

Its the same shit. Another Mourneblade turns someone into a puppet. You don't call frostmourne and helm of domination the vessels of domination for nothing.

[NikolaiShade]

"The crown of light will bring only darkness" refers to Anduin tho. Sure, he doesn't have a crown, but this is in a metaphorical sense. After all, he is the High King. Eventually, he will snap out of it, but not before doing some crazy stuff.

Yeah, but "The golden one claims a vacant throne. The crown of light will bring only darkness", although a little bit obvious but Turalyon seems like a better candidate for the job. Anduin is not that golden right now

[Kiivar86]

If I'm wrong, I'm wrong. I just really don't see Blizzard ever using something as plain and vague as "Awakenings".

I do agree that Awakenings is kind of vague, as at least Cataclysm was an event itself.

Who knows though. They've bucked trends before.

[NikolaiShade]

Its the same shit. Another Mourneblade turns someone into a puppet. You don't call frostmourne and helm of domination the vessels of domination for nothing.

Iirc it was revealed Arthas was cursed, influenced, but not fully dominated, he did what he wanted to do basically

Edit - found the quote from Danuser: Arthas made choices along the way, and yes there was a dark power calling to him and all of that, but it was still very much choices that he made that led him along the path that he went.

[TheFirstOnes]

Its the same shit. Another Mourneblade turns someone into a puppet. You don't call frostmourne and helm of domination the vessels of domination for nothing.

Not really, considering Arthas betrayed Ner'Zhul and Zovaal and did that shit as the LK himself.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

Iirc it was revealed Arthas was cursed, influenced, but not fully dominated, he did what he wanted to do basically

Edit - found the quote from Danuser: Arthas made choices along the way, and yes there was a dark power calling to him and all of that, but it was still very much choices that he made that led him along the path that he went.

I'm aware of that statement but I don't think it jives well with what we know of Frostmourne and well domination magic. You can argue everything up until Frostmourne was picked up. After that is he really of his own? Something that takes souls?

Not really, considering Arthas betrayed Ner'Zhul and Zovaal and did that shit as the LK himself.

Again, still doesn't quite make sense what we know about Frostmourne. Zovaal considers the helm and Frostmourne vessels of domination and we know what the word means, I don't buy he had much control at all.

[draugril]

If I'm wrong, I'm wrong. I just really don't see Blizzard ever using something as plain and vague as "Awakenings".

I, too, think that "Awakenings" would be a dumb title. But again, we've already had plain and vague titles. The fact that you have lore context for them doesn't make them any less plain and vague.

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Iirc it was revealed Arthas was cursed, influenced, but not fully dominated, he did what he wanted to do basically

Edit - found the quote from Danuser: Arthas made choices along the way, and yes there was a dark power calling to him and all of that, but it was still very much choices that he made that led him along the path that he went.

Honestly, that just makes me think that Danuser doesn't understand his job. Arthas having free will and Anduin not would be wildly inconsistent.